I really like this channel, so I did a little experiment, I went into the game 'Command: Modern Operations' and I did this fight 5 times, 4 times the Eurofighter Typhoon won, on the 5th fight the Su-30 Flanker won, so from my little 5 fights, I'd say your correct.
@@toninhosoldierhelmet4033 None whatsoever. It is the stupidity of making it a collaborative project with non-stop bickering between nations that makes it last longer than it should.
In medium to close range encounters I would put my money on a modernized flanker. For long range the eurodighter, though a mig 31 might be a close match. The infrared tracking system is useful at medium range, and the modernized flanker have High off boresight missiles.
Actually the su 30 is not a single jet model but there are multiple su 30 like su 30 mki and su mkm along with su 30 sm which come with 3d thrust vectoring but on the other hand su 30 of vietnam and armenia lack thrust vectoring , also Indian su 30 are totslly different with AESA based Laser Warning Reciever made in India and also soon to be equipped with 900+ TR module AESA ardar also Su 30 MKI carries Astra Mk 1 as standard BVR missile with range of 110 km and also has tested with the Astra mk 2 with 150+ km range Also HAL manufactures Su 30 too
True. The best on is Su30sm that is deployed by Russia itself. Export versions usually are inferior unless yourself do a project of upgrade on it like India and its Su30mki.
Yes , Its a Beauty to look at & Made for Action , But it never gets to the fight as the Phoon would blow it out of the sky well before the Flanker even knew it was there
Even tho the eurofighter is better the su 30 is 80% cheaper (it costs 27.7 million dollars per units while the eurofighter costs 120 million) and the thing is that there isn't a radical difference
You can't compare prices in military terms. There is no fixed price. When a nation buys a jet it doesn't just buy the jet. They also buy spare parts, training for maintenance crew, ordinance like missiles and bombs even in some cases training for pilots and so on
@@napobg6842 they are good for their purpose: There is a lot of them, same goes for tanks, rockets, infantry... You name it. Only good thing about them is that they are there in large numbers. Enemy is just scared by your force and doesn resist but it falls down when you meet a strong enemy.
@@petrsafranek5725 It is clear that Russia doesn't really have a well developed air force. They are scared to use it and it is mostly intended for defensive actions.
I don’t buy it that Typhoon is superior to Su30 or Su35!. Just better graphics on radar or so won’t compensate for thrust vectoring and maneuverability. Su30 is a 4++ generation fighter whereas Typhoon is 4+. As long as there are classified information about either we can’t say which one is a better one.
You are completely right, the author is fantasizing, and as practice has shown in 13 international exercises, including on the territory of the United States, against such aircraft as the Typhoon, Mirage, F15, F16, F18, F22A and F35, the Su 30mki gives these aircraft practically no chance, and this is a cut-down export model
On November 7, 1993, at the Dubai Airshow, a training dogfight between Su-30 and Su-35 aircraft and Mirage-2000 fighters took place. The French were unpleasantly surprised by the characteristics of Russian combat aircraft, and the Indians present at the show refused to purchase Mirages in favor of a contract with the Russian Sukhoi company.
Meteor is way better and Typhoon has much better radar. Deal with it, western tech is superior. Its not fair but air dominance is pay to win discipline.
The US Phantom was much faster and had better missiles than the Russian Mig-21. On paper everything was better. But the Phantoms got ATE UP in Vietnam by the small and agile MiGs. Once someone gets behind you the electronics wont help u very much
Check SU30 MKI and it's avionics, it is almost at par with SU35 ... MKI carries BRAMHOS supersonic missiles which imcompararable to any of missile carried by Typhoon class..
The Typhoon has the Meteor which is hands down the best air to air missile we currently know of. I also wanna mention that the dogfight capabilities of the EF are heavily underestimated due to wrong reprentations by things like DCS mod modules ect.
The Eurofighter is simply a superior fighter technologically. The Euro not only has better radar but also longer range missiles. The PESA radar in the SU-30 can more easily be jammed as well than the AESA on the Euro. So 1v1 the Euro wins, in suqdrons the Euro wins again with even bigger difference. As for individual missions the Euro can carry more ordinance so it is better there as well
With the exception of the Ethiopian-Eritrean war of 1999-2000, the Su-27 aircraft did not participate in direct combat operations, although it was used for air patrols in the 1st Chechen War of 1994-1995. In addition to setting world records and participating in air shows, the Su-27 fighter became famous for accompanying the Su-24MR in 2000 during a training attack on the American aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk. No one doubts the superiority of the Su-27 over the F-15. The Americans themselves state this officially and unofficially. In 1995, General Joseph Ralston, commander of tactical aviation of the US Air Force, defending to Congress the urgent need for the United States to develop the latest (and very expensive!) F-22 fighter program, bluntly stated: “No reconnaissance is needed to establish the superiority of the Su -27 over the F-15 in maneuverability and thrust-to-weight ratio." And this is not at all a pose to “extort” additional appropriations from the US Congress for certain military programs, but an already established fact. In February 2004, the advantage of the Su-27 (Su-30MK) over the F-15 was clearly demonstrated during the American-Indian maneuvers, and in November 2005, during similar maneuvers, the Su-30MK also showed an advantage even over its “younger brother” F-15 aircraft, F-16 fighter. In recent decades, the American military has talked a lot about the power of its aircraft, but at the same time avoided demonstration air battles with Russian pilots and Russian-made aircraft. This applies primarily to various aerospace salons and exhibitions at which such an opportunity was provided. Moreover, our side initiated such competitions, rightly believing that they were ultimately designed to really show who is capable of what. After the debut of the Su-27 at the Le Bourget aerospace show in 1989, M.P. made precisely these proposals. Simonov, General Designer of the Sukhoi Design Bureau. A colorful advertising brochure is one thing, but a real fight in front of thousands of spectators and independent aviation experts who will objectively evaluate what they see is another. The Su-27/Su-30 is not the only example of good Russian aviation technology. Until recently, German Air Force pilots flew MiG-29 aircraft, regularly conducted training battles with NATO colleagues flying American and Western European aircraft, and won almost all the fights. That is why they were so reluctant to transfer to the clumsy Eurofighter. US-India exercise Cope India 2004 The Cope India 2004 Air Combat Training (DACT) exercise in India took place from February 16 to February 26, 2004 at Gwalior Air Base (Madhya Pradesh). Previously, it was planned to start the exercises on February 14, but the invited American personnel, numbering 130 people, only arrived at the air base that day. From the Indian side, the MiG-21 Bison fighters (as escort fighters), MiG-27ML (as attack aircraft), MiG-29* (for auxiliary purposes), Mirage 2000C, and Jaguar (attack aircraft) were involved in the exercises. aircraft), Su-30MK, as well as transport and refueling aircraft Il-78 and An-32 (as an early warning, warning and communications aircraft - AWACS). Previously, it was planned that the Su-30MKI aircraft would participate in the exercises, but the Indians refused to present this option and limited themselves to only the Su-30MK, not equipped with the system. deviations of the thrust vector in flight. The American Air Force was represented by six single-seat tactical fighters F-15C (13 crews in total) and a KC-135 transport and refueling aircraft. In particular, the crews of F-15C aircraft (No. 84-0023 and 84-0028) from the 19th Squadron of the 3rd Airlift Wing of the US Air Force, deployed at Elmendorf Air Force Base (Alaska), were involved in the exercises. Each aircraft was equipped with a data link to quickly exchange information about the target's position. The aircraft were equipped with AIM-9X close-in missiles, and the crews had helmet-mounted target designation systems. The aircraft were due to take part in other exercises in Singapore and it was therefore decided not to deal with the additional logistics required if the aircraft were fitted with an active electronically scanned array radar. At India's request, the Americans agreed to simulate a battle with a superiority of no more than 3:1 and without the use of AIM-120 medium-range missiles (AMRAAM). The French Mirages 2000 carried Mica missiles, and the Su-30 simulated the use of R-73 and RVV-AE missiles. MiG-21 and MiG-27 demonstrated mutual protection. Using the communication line with the Su-30, a very good radar picture of what was happening in the sky was obtained, which made it possible to make the right decisions about the entry and exit of aircraft from combat. Experts noted that the MiG-21 received information from the radar of other aircraft,in the sky, which ensured good awareness of its crews. The general outlines of the joint exercise were determined in September 2003 during the visit to the United States of the Chief of Staff of the Indian Air Force, Srini Vasapurami Krishnaswami. The Americans wanted to study in practice the flight capabilities of the new heavy, but highly maneuverable Su-30MKI fighter. As the results of the exercises showed, the Americans had enough capabilities of the Su-30MK.
A similar exchange of experience began earlier. In October 2002, India and the United States held a joint event involving military transport aviation. In the same year, an exchange program for training pilots of the two countries began. According to an Indian Air Force spokesman, before Cope India 2004, three Indian pilots visited the United States to familiarize themselves with the American flight support system and flew several flights in two-seat F-15D aircraft with their American counterparts. In July 2004, the Indian side planned to take part in the multinational exercise Cooperative Cope Thunder, which was to be held in Alaska. The non-stop flight to Alaska, for the first time in the history of the Indian Air Force, was to involve Il-78 air tankers, recently acquired from Russia.Traditionally, it was believed that Russian fighters have some advantage over the Americans in close combat, because... have better maneuverability. The "Americans", possessing more advanced electronic equipment, were considered more effective at long combat distances. Pilots from both countries tried to test these stereotypes in practice. Until now, it was believed that the excellent flight characteristics of the Su-27 family of fighters are more than compensated by the very good electronic equipment that American aircraft are equipped with. Detection systems installed on F-15C fighters (AN/APG-63 radar, AN/ALR-56C radar warning system and AN/ALQ-1 28 multi-mode electronic warfare system), theoretically make it possible to detect the enemy before he detects an American aircraft. This was supposed to give an important advantage in air combat - a gain in time necessary for making decisions, aiming and launching missiles. However, Indian pilots refuted American ideas about the combat capabilities of their aircraft. Deputy Chief of Staff of the Indian Air Force Mahmud McMahon said on this occasion: “The Americans expected us to operate within the framework of the Western doctrine of the use of fighter aircraft, but we chose the Soviet model, and as a result we prevailed over our opponents.” Ultimately, the absolute advantage remained on the side of the Sukhoi Design Bureau fighters. They won every two of the three matches they competed in.Indian pilots revolutionized American ideas about fighter aviation tactics. They used the aircraft's optical-electronic systems in training battles, without turning on the radar, which allowed them to quietly approach the Americans within "the distance of an aimed shot from an onboard cannon." In close combat, the less maneuverable F-15C had little chance of surviving. According to the Indian command, the Americans were thus “shot down” at least 20 times. During the battles, it turned out that Russian radars were superior to American ones. They detected the F-15C even against the backdrop of mountains at a distance of up to 60 km. The “enemy’s” radars were “blind” in such conditions, unable to distinguish targets against the background of multiple reflections from mountain ledges.Based on the exercise data, the Americans compiled a detailed report, which is still classified. But something has leaked through the relevant regime prohibitions, which is almost certainly connected with the upcoming approval of the new military budget, and especially with allocations for the development and refinement of the promising F/A-22 fighter, intended to replace the F-1 5 aircraft in combat units. Thus, it became known that F-15C aircraft equipped with the relatively old AN/APG-63 radar, and not its new version AN/APG-63(V)2 with an increased range and an active antenna, took part in the exercises on the American side. grating with electronic beam scanning. This radar is designed specifically for detecting small and stealthy targets at a tactical range.
American pilots did not use missiles with an active radar seeker, and therefore the capabilities of the AIM-120 missiles were limited to a range of 37 km in case of target illumination and a range of 33 km during defensive battles, like all other missiles. A common tactic for F-15 aircraft is to form four fighters in a "front" formation. This worked well when active electronically scanned antenna radars and intermediate range missiles (AIM-120) were used. The Cope India 2004 exercise also showed that we cannot discount older types of aircraft that have undergone thorough modernization and are equipped with new electronic equipment and air-to-air missiles. Indian MiG-21 fighters, modernized in this way, pose a formidable challenge that cannot always be easily countered. The apotheosis was the defeat of the F-15 by the MiG-21 fighter, which the US Defense Ministry had long written off as a worthy opponent.U.S. Air Force officials note that until recently, in all exercises, 3rd Wing crews operated with a 2:1 numerical superiority, which, according to Air Force command, is considered typical for most combat situations. In general, everything that hinders a bad dancer (the equipment on Indian planes is better, and maneuverability, and the training of pilots is better, and Indian pilots have more flight hours, and the tactics are different). In short, everything is not as it seemed to the Americans. And at the same time, an unexpected (but necessary for political reasons!) conclusion is made: in order for American pilots to achieve air superiority over Indian pilots, they say they need a stealth fighter that has an advantage over the enemy due to the first shot provided by long-range radar actions and the ability to coordinate data coming from external sensors, i.e. like this characteristics that the promising F/A-22 fighter, which is slowly entering mass production, should have. To reach such a conclusion, the Americans did not need to meet the Su-30MKI aircraft in the air. God forbid the “fifteenth” would lose to him dry! Then skeptics would have a logical question: where is the guarantee that the new F/A-22, which took such a painfully long time to develop, so expensive and complex, will not lose to an aircraft like the Su-30MKI. Another question has also loomed: how long will the US Air Force, when training its crews, keep the enemy “for a fool”, without really taking into account its combat capabilities?The US Air Force command, puzzled by the results of these exercises, decided on its own initiative to expand the maneuvers planned for 2005. American F-16 fighters, which are the main tactical aircraft of the West, were supposed to take part in the exercises on Indian territory. It was planned to conduct training battles with MiG-29 aircraft, which are in service with the Indian Air Force. For the Indians, these fights are interesting because their potential enemy Pakistan is armed with these aircraft, albeit of the early series - F-16A/B with clearly underestimated capabilities. So that in these exercises the Americans do not completely disgrace themselves once again (including in front of their Western allies, who are being persistently pushed to replace their F-16 aircraft
promising multirole fighters being developed under the JSF program), it was decided to use a pair of American airborne early warning, warning and communications (AWACS) aircraft. With the help of these aircraft it is possible to direct air battles and provide target designation to fighters. This is a good opportunity for the Indians to test the effectiveness of such a system before purchasing Russian A-50 aircraft for a similar purpose. However, such an example was already present in the history of military operations - in 1982, during the armed conflict in Lebanon, target designation for Israeli aircraft was provided from an American E-2C carrier-based aircraft of the same purpose, patrolling over the sea not far from the Israeli coast. The sad outcome for Syrian aviation was obvious. As for the characteristics of the Su-30MKI aircraft and the desire to test their strength, the Americans were somewhat disingenuous, because It has long been established that the F-15 fighter loses in air combat to the simple production Su-27 aircraft, on the basis of which the Su-30MKI multifunctional fighter was created. The participation of Su-27 aircraft in international aviation exhibitions gave a fairly good idea of its flight capabilities. However, exhibitions, demonstration flights, and more than 40 world records set did not provide a tangible idea of the actual combat capabilities of this aircraft. Indian-Singaporean exercise "Sindex-Ankush" The Americans' hopes for any outstanding results when introducing the F-16 light multirole fighters into combat also did not materialize. As Krasnaya Zvezda put it, “in the Indian skies, the light F-16C fighters have now “choked” on Russian “dryers.” The Times of India news agency reported victories of the Su-30MK aircraft of the Indian Air Force over the F-16C fighters of the Singapore Air Force in joint Exercise Sindex-Ankush, which lasted two weeks over the Gwalior air base in 2005. The dogfights began with single fighter duels, followed by one aircraft from each side, eventually involving up to 10 aircraft (5:5). According to some sources, Indian Su-30MKs won 8 out of 10 fights with American F-15 fighters, and Su-30MKI aircraft won all 10 fights with Singaporean F-16s.According to foreign experts, Russian-made heavy fighters showed excellent results in training battles, including in terms of maneuverability, on-board equipment and weapons systems. If in the Cope India 2004 exercises, in battles against heavy F-1-5C fighters, Su-30MK fighters of the same weight class performed brilliantly, this time our heavy Su-30MK fighters opposed light F-16C fighters.
However, these results are not unusual. For some time, the F-1 6 aircraft was considered the American “aerodynamic standard”. But the very first attempts by F-16 aircraft of the Norwegian Air Force to carry out an escort mission over the Barents Sea for a Su-27 fighter were unsuccessful. The F-16 is not capable of maintaining formation with the “twenty-seventh” flying at cruising mode. The American aircraft, due to its worse (compared to the Su-27) aerodynamics, does not have enough afterburning engine thrust, and it lags sharply behind our fighter. Turning on the afterburner causes the F-16 to jump forward, which would allow it to be immediately attacked from the rear hemisphere in a real battle. As a result, such jerky attempts to maintain formation ended in the rapid exhaustion of fuel on the F-1 6 and the failure of the mission. The American “standard” found itself in the tail of the Russian standard. Indo-French exercise "Garuda II" The Indians do not limit themselves only to US-Indian maneuvers. Thus, from June 15 to July 1, 2005, a group of Indian Su-30 aircraft visited the 125th air base of the French Air Force "Charles Monier", which is located near the city of Istres, to conduct the Garuda II exercise. This was the Indian Air Force's first participation in an exercise in Europe and the first participation of Su-30 aircraft, which have only been seen at aerospace exhibitions. Accompanied by two Il-76 transport aircraft, the Indian fighters were deployed to France in two stages. Six Su-30 aircraft (╧╧ SB010, -13, -14, -16, -16 and -18) from The 24th Hunting Hawk Squadron, stationed at Bareilly, near Delhi, flew on June 9 to Jamnagar, which is located in western India. From here they made a non-stop flight with one or two in-flight refuelings from two Il-78M refueling aircraft (4625 km, 6 hours of flight), one of which was from the 78th Air Force "Battle Edge", stationed in Agra, to the Egyptian air base at Gianklisa near Alexandria. The base is the primary operating base for Egyptian F-16 fighter jets. From here the planes flew 2,590 km (4 hours of flight) to the Charles Monier base without refueling. A total of 120 Indian personnel were delivered to France, including 32 officers, 10 engineers, 87 technicians, 18 Su-30 aircraft, 5 Il-78M aircraft. The Hunting Hawks squadron began operating the first eight aircraft in early 1997, which were called O/-30MK1 in India, followed by ten Su-ZOK aircraft delivered in November 1999. The tactical numbers of the first six aircraft suggest that that they relate to the latest aircraft delivery. The 24 Squadron selected for the exercise has the best trained pilots in the Indian Air Force to fly the Su-30. While the first Su-30 aircraft are predominantly air-to-air combat aircraft, later delivery aircraft have limited precision weapons capability.
On the French side, six Mirage-2000S/O fighters from the 125th French Air Force Base in Istres, three Mirage 2000-5, an Embraer EMB.321F Tucano subsonic aircraft, an AWACS and E control aircraft took part in the exercises -3F "Sentry", "Mirage" 2000N also from the base in Istra, tanker aircraft C-135FR "Stratotanker". After familiarization flights of Indian crews near alternative air bases, Su-30 and Mirage 2000 carried out mutual “cleaning” of airspace from June 17 to 28 in accordance with the developed tactical scenario. Two to three missions per day were carried out in two training zones at medium altitudes and stretching from Marseille to Corsica. During the exercises, tasks were practiced in providing air defense, in-flight refueling using tanker aircraft of both sides, as well as conducting air combat. Close air battles were carried out with Mi-Rage-2000S aircraft in the "one against two" and "two against two" modes in visual visibility conditions with simulating the launch of short-range air-to-air missiles R-73 of Russian design and French " Mazhik-2". Mixed formations also took part in the battles, for example, two Mirage 2000S and two Su-30 against four Mirage 2000S and two Su-30. Some missions included the defense of AWACS aircraft and E-ZS control. Initially, both sides acted together as "blues", engaged in alternating aerial refueling and mixed force patrols involving Mirage 2000C and Mirage 2000D fighters (with RDI radar) from squadron 2/5 "Ile de France" in Orange. More complex combat air patrol tasks were solved during combat training exercises in one-on-one and two-on-two battles within visual range. The French used the Mazhik-2 missile, and the Indians used the R-73 (AA-11) in close combat ("dog fights"). Battles of “blue” Su-30s and “Mirages” with the same number of “red” ones were also included. After June 24, a Mirage 2000-5 aircraft (with RDY-2 radar) arrived from Squadron S Sigone in Dijon to support beyond-visual combat using M1SA missiles as opposed to RVV-AE missiles. The “no flight zone” scenarios involved a Mirage 2000N from the Limousine squadron in Istra to simulate an invasion aircraft and an EMB-312 Tucano turboprop trainer to simulate a low-speed target that needed to be defended. During the eight main “peak” days, the aircraft carried out 150 sorties, 80 by Mirage 2000 fighters and 74 by Su-30. French pilots also received practice in refueling from the Il-78 aircraft, and Indian pilots from the French C-135FR, using the hose-cone system.
As 13 international exercises have shown, the stripped-down (export) version of the Su30 MKI does not give any chance to the Typhoon 2000, as well as to such aircraft as the Mirage, F15,16,18,22 and 35 almost everything fights in favor of su30
Very pretty, Test pilots pushing their planes to the limits, Real pilots need flighttime. Russian pilots avg 60-100 hrs flightime vs. Nato target of 180+ hrs. with 130 min.
No need commenting. Listen to your own narrative and you'll know what you're setting us up to say or agree to. Sometimes, when you lie to yourself too many times, you lose touch with reality and wonder why you lost a real fight against someone you've hyped yourself into thinking is inferior to you.
Imagine if the Su 30 was given western engines, avionics and weapons but most importantly, the pilots were trained to the same standard as western pilots.
First of, advanced versions of the Su-30 such as Indian Su-30MKI and Malaysian Su-30MKM poses Western avionics, aswell as Russian, French, Israeli and South African… Speaking of engines, why would they incorporate western engines? Russia has thrust vectoring engines which provide enormeous thrust… Speaking of pilots - Russian, and even Indian and Malaysian pilots proved they are equaly good if not better than American and British pilots, despite lower flight hours…
well the first comment has got to training, its a fact that most Europeans and certainly the UK have far more training than the Russian pilots , also as the Ukraine war shows, Russia can't afford these aircraft and has far fewer of them and does not wish to risk losing them
Indian sukhoi 30 mki is much better than Eurofighter typhoon, bcoz it has been upgraded with latest Israeli, French and Russian radars, avionics and deadly missiles.
I think when you said more high tech avionics, that was a huge understatement. The SU 30 has proven in Ukraine 🇺🇦 to be able to be shot down and they have kept that at a low profile. The plane is sub standard compared to all the of west s top level fighter jets. The Russians fooled us for decades but the war has proved their equipment is average , at best. Planes that have been shot down proved they had issues with their navigation system and jets were found to have sat Nav s installed to make up for the difficulties they were encountering. Ps the typhoon can be adapted to enable the engines to thrust vector , should they wish Plus the most powerful radar is in the final stages of development. The stage 2 model will make the RAF s typhoons the stand out jet fighter along side the F22 raptor ❤
According to your logic, the west and America has also fooled us into believing that they are undefeatable . Until they get into battle. Its not an uncommon sight walking past a syrian road to find a roasted leapord tank, or a british chalenger, and most notably, the undefeatable, legendary m1 Abraham, latest models with saudi, are smoked by cold war era rpgs in yemen. The afghans were able to shoot down the hyperADVANCED apaches with machine guns, and now have captured dozens of them from the greatest military coalition in history, without having training or anything, just some rusty aks and rpgs,. So you see, if Russian war machines are beiy called garbage because they are destroyed by Ukraine army, western tech is ultra garbage because it doesn't needs the enemy to be an army, just a bunch of terrorists with rusty aks. Btw the worlds longest air to air kill ever in history is in the name of a su 57 shooting down a Ukraine mig 29 at over 300 miles with khinzel hypersonic long range missiles. So they're avionics aren't that crape as your sources tell you
Next time compare Typhoon to Su-30sm2 the most advanced one, euro fighter will never have manuvoerbility, electronic warfare and radars better than the sukhoi. You're biased
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Yeah , and sky is purple and the sea is orange !!! We all know the Indians like threw there teeth !!!! Joke. - They take neural stance on Ukraine 🇺🇦. Weak country 👎
Imagine euro nations all together made agnst russia it self hahah Su30 is better of corse and geuus what There is su35 Su 57 Su 75 What's else u got ????
Lets not forget just ladt year a su 27 accidentally lauched a missle at a British command plane and missile failed to launch, this highlights exactly how good the planes are and exactly the advantages of spending a little more more money
Nešto kažu da će Nato i SAD da vam daju Jedrilice da sa njima branite Ukrajinu. Jedrilice su zakon brzo se uči a nemaju motor samo jedite i budete mete za SU.30 Mig.29
