Reminds me of a friend who was always saying things like, "I'd never watch THAT movie", "I'd never eat at THAT restaurant", "I'd never pay THAT much for a car". One time I pointed out, "well, you're probably not the intended audience", to which he conceded.
I agree that DC fast charging is getting more emphasis than needed. Level 2 chargers at locations where cars are typically parked for hours at a time make so much more sense. Cheaper to install, operate and use.
And comaponies like telsa only lower the MSRP to like 2019 levels on it's Model 3 when it could have gone lower then launch to $30k since they make so much moeny on each carr now.
The thing to consider is that there are still 300 million personal vehicles licensed for road use in the United States right now, and less than 1% of those are EVs. With 12 million U.S. vehicles retired from road use each year, it really is going to be a long time before this is a huge concern. Also, only about 20% of U.S. households do not have dedicated, off-street parking. So for 80% of prospective used EV buyers, the worst-case-scenario is that multi-unit property managers will need to be forced to accommodate charging in those dedicated parking stalls.
@@sudeeptaghosh No, this isn't a limitation of the human mind; it's the reality of the world we live in. Can we imagine a world where we phase out 300 million ICE vehicles in 10 years? Absolutely. Do we live in that world? No, we don't. The honest truth is, we really shouldn't be striving to put 300 million EVs on the road anyway. We should be looking to retire at least a third to half of those vehicles permanently and replace them with functional public transportation.
@@newscoulomb3705 I agree on all of your perspective.. but respectfully you are not considering following aspects 1. After Inflation reduction bill manufacturers in USA will get huge money to make EV in US. 7500 per car 45 dollar per kWh battery and Battery pack assembled in USA. 40K per Semi. This will put all ICE manufacturers in huge disadvantage .. and that already started showing After tesla recent price drop even less people buying new ICE car Now people will think why I buy 40K rav4 when I can get 45K tesla model Y ICE sells will collapse but momentarily used car sells will increase. What you have to say after processing this piece of information This is another reason Alex lost credibility.. he is blatantly obscuring facts from its customer.. he has this tremendous hate towards most american made manufacturer Tesla, which just baffles me .. he must be a union member
@@sudeeptaghosh None of that changes global supply chains and logistics. There simply aren't enough batteries to do what you're describing, and unless we rapidly ramp up a viable alternative chemistry to lithium based batteries, we're looking at several decades before we can build enough EVs to replace the personally owned cars already on the road. Alex treats Tesla fairly and evenhandedly, and in fact, he gives them a lot more credit than I do. To me, their price drop was representative of two things: Decreasing demand for their vehicles and increased production from their competitors. Tesla will finally be seeing actual, direct competition over the next few years, so gone are the days that they can charge exorbitant prices that push their margins to twice the industry standard. After their price drop, Tesla is still only barely competitive pricewise with the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and KIA EV6. For $55,000, I'd rather have an Ioniq 5 than a Model Y. For $40,000, I'd rather have an EV6 Light than a Model 3 SR+. And I think that any objective auto journalist would agree with me on both of those points.
@@newscoulomb3705 wow yes after listening to you I find Alex better.. anyways your money your choice. But let’s be clear your preference is not objective it’s subjective .. on the battery front we have resources for infinite batteries .. specially for lithium iron phosphate In USA soon battery capacity for more than 100 million cars will be installed WIP
Very interesting and thoughtful information here. But I still take issue with the assertion that the charging infrastructure should not inhibit anyone from buying an EV. I fit the demographic of new car buyers, and in fact, I buy cars new. But I would not consider an EV at this time. I live in Florida, and the experience of a friend and neighbor underlines the validity of my view. He owns a compact EV SUV (not a Tesla) and recently struggled traveling from Miami to Sarasota (normally a 4-5 hour trip) because of few charging stations, closed charging stations, and malfunctioning charging stations on the route. He finally arrived at his destination after 11 hours on the road. If I were to drive only locally, I probably would have no problem charging. But even this relatively short distance created havoc for my neighbor in terms of anxiety and delays. So, I think people are justified in refraining from EV purchases at this point in time and until charging stations are more reliable and much more plentiful.
Another good video! I am seeing enough of people living in Townhouses buying EVs, not all single family. You right about charging. In my case, 80% charging happens at my work location (Free now! don't know how long it will last). As others commented, non-Telsa road tripping currently is not easy. Couple of months ago, I was planning for trip between Pittsburgh and Atlanta. I decided not to use my Kia EV6 as there was NOT a single DC fast charging station in West Virginia! There were enough Tesla superchargers though in West Virginia!! Non-Tesla EV manufacturer need to up the game on DC fasting if they want people to buy their EVs.
Tesla were able to do this because all of the owners paid for it. Public charging companies are going to install chargers where the electricity power already exists and is financially feasible. That's why some Interstate exits will never have a fast charger installed over others that already do. The ROI would take far too many years to start making a profit if the electrical utility had to bring power into a new location.
After watching this video, I think I have a clearer understanding of kind of EV infrastructure you're talking about. The focus here seems to be on EV owner infrastructure, meaning the charging ability the owner has in their home. And that's an absolutely valid concern for sure. I've been in 3 apartments in my life, and only one of them had an actual garage with a power plug. When I think of EV infrastructure, however, I'm thinking of the PUBLIC side of it, as in the over all availability of EV charging in the U.S. I'm over 55 and fit the demographic of new EV buyers, and yes, I could commute with an EV no problem. But as far as the availability of EV charging for road trips, even in-state ones, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the overall state of charging infrastructure (even here in Colorado). A staggering number of towns and municipalities don't have an EV charge station, EV charging in parking garages is almost nonexistent, and the charge stations we do have would get you typically 100KW at the most. Not to mention the janky software. Things are better for Tesla owners in this area, but overall I can't spending a ton of money on an EV that (at the moment) is really just a commuter vehicle. I was all-in on them at first, but right now I think a plug-in hybrid is the wiser choice.
Good video, but let's put to bed the question about what will happen to end of life EV batteries. The minerals and metals are worth good money and will be recycled by companies such as Redwood Materials which is ramping up capacity.
Great analysis. Yes, we have a family income at about the 97th percentile nationally but we drive a 13-y-o Prius and a 8-y-o Outback and I can't imagine paying the median new car price of $48k for a replacement. Shows how screwed up the economy is. One thing I find really interesting that you could cover is the inflation-adjusted costs of cars in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. We think cars are expensive now but if you calculate the equivalent cost of cars from decades past they were more expensive still. (Tommy on TFL sometimes mentions the inflation-adjusted costs of the classics they own and that's what alerted me to this fact).
I remember being shocked when I looked up the inflation-adjusted price of the first car I remember my mom driving, a 1988 Nissan Maxima. In 2023 money, that was about $45k. Wild. MSRP was in the high teens, started at like $17k back then.
Yes, price and payment decide if most young people can afford that new car. With the higher interest rates and car prices, too many younger people are priced out of the new car market. As far as charging, it is amazing to see how slow the infrastructure is in installing new chargers. In my area in the south, I have seen no gas station chains install EV charging except Buckeyes. I thought we would see at least a few new chargers installed.
@AoA your concerns ate valid. However your analysis that an EV @50% battery capacity will suffice. The issue is as life reduces the voltage of the battery pack goes down and there is only so much it can drop before individual components cannot function properly. Not just that the power limit of the pack also drops making it difficult to manage the power distribution between components. The key here is that OEMs have to make battery packs serviceable. The Ultium platform supposedly will be service able. TESLAS batteries are not serviceable. Canoo has promised modular serviceable batteries. Modulat and cheaper replacement packs will be needed. And frankly none are designed that way. Good topic of discussion. I personally cannot fathom buying a used highmileage EV where the cost of the battery pack exceeds the value of the car.
One discussion topic that I think would be interesting would be how one would actually be able to test drive EVs. Last year when I bought a new van it was extremely difficult to find cars to test drive. A lot of calling around and having to ask when shipments would arrive. With EVs being so low volume still how does one even see if a car is for them? I can't imagine buying a car for $60k+ without having driven it first. Am I missing some secret?
@@mrstinky2421 That's not good... Like over 2 years of looking for my first car I ridden(Only a Learner's lisnce) and sat in dozens of vehicles before choose my first car a mustang and even then I had riden n 3 other ones before hand. And I had diven mustangs in games and sims all my life so I knew it was for me.... I honestly can't imagine buying car and not doing that.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Times have changed, the pandemic created supply chain issues; until those are all reserved, few dealers will have vehicles on the lot to test drive.
I watch a lot more vehicle reviews on RU-vid than I should, given that I don't want or need a new car. I only subscribe to your two channels because, frankly, most of those other so-called 'automotive journalists' never took Journalism 101. They can't differentiate between facts, opinions and pure speculation. I don't care a hoot about whether they like, dislike or favor some feature, design, element or content of the vehicle they are reviewing. I'm the one interested in the vehicle and I will be the judge, jury and executioner when it comes to choosing. I bought a 2017 Bolt; then I leased a 2019 Kia Niro EV; I also leased a Ford CMax hybrid and a Kia Niro hybrid. Now, I'm driving a pure ICE 2023 Genesis GV80. Why? Because it's simply the best car I've ever seen. Honestly, my way of dealing with high gas prices is to reduce driving, by walking and riding my bicycle to the store. Admittedly, I live in a place that favors that. I have both level 1 and level 2 chargers in my garage, but I'm not buying another EV until that particular EV is the best vehicle I can buy, period. So, I'm right with you on this.
Norway has already addressed the challenges of charging in apartments. They ought to have addressed some of the used car issues before long since their EV market share is already at about 82%. Personally, I think we should be improving all modes of transportation, not just cars and car infrastructure.
Another great video! Doesn't the past 3 years of pandemic car flipping skew these results? I mean "used" cars are being resold with less than a few hundred miles on them and that skews the whole study.
I traded in a 2020, Kona EV to get a 2022 Ioniq 5 because the market conditions were such that the dealer had to give me a good trade in value. Otherwise, I couldn't afford this and would still have the Kona EV. Even the Kona EV purchase relied on a trade in of a Ford Edge ICE vehicle; without that, I wouldn't be able to even buy the Kona EV,
Buying a $100,000 Model S on an income of $150,000 seems...like a bad financial decision. Didnt know the average tesla buyer has income that low. Porsche said the median annual income of a macan buyer is $440,000.
@@ayeameen yeah, but if you pick up a pre 2017 which ol Musk hasn't """owned""", you get free supercharging. That's going to be the absolute perk to have come a couple years from now. If you thought energy prices were rough now, just wait when we decide to not expand our power production capacity in any meaningful way while increasing demand.
The most important word in this is "Yet." Yes, many of us are talking about the immediate future. I talk about "Advanced Clean Cars II," which my state recently signed onto. I recently had a talk with someone associated with our state transportation folks, and he related how discussions were heading towards not just banning "the sales" of combustion vehicles, but also banning "the registration" of new combustion vehicles. And thus, there would be no sense of buying a new combustion vehicle "from the state next door." Something I find impossible to believe, but then again, our state's "decision" was made by a state agency commission -- not the legislature, not any kind of public vote, but rather, "five people in a room" have essentially required "somebody" not mentioned or defined to spend billions of dollars on infrastructure for a wholesale move from combustion vehicles to battery electric vehicles, starting with a requirement that 35% of new vehicle sales must be "electric" starting in 2026 -- 3 years away from now. And thus, this discussion about 'new" vehicles will have little to do with personal mobility within a decade or two from now, as the supply of used combustion vehicles will give way to the supply of used battery electric vehicles. The bottom line is that "especially given government mandates," a time will come when massive hordes of apartment and condo dwellers and such will be sitting in their cars for hours, waiting in line to get to a public charger in order to even "get to work" in the morning. Unless, of course, "someone" builds hundreds of parking lots full of hundreds of battery electric vehicle chargers apiece, all across the state. Meanwhile, here on RU-vid, nobody seems to whine much about spending half an hour to an hour or more sitting at battery electric vehicle chargers. Perhaps that will change when they have to wait in line for that long -- or longer -- every time they have to use a public charger.
In the cities, where cars are parked on the street, how are you going to charge your car? Running a cable out the window or door? Pedestrians tripping on cables? Lawsuits.
Fascinating! Thank you. The new car buyer that might be put off BEVs by the lack of availability and reliability of DC fast charging infrastructure is the person/family that routinely road-trips. Road-tripping might be for work or for leisure/recreational travel. But even occasional road-trippers have some concern with their ability to actually road-trip without getting stranded and having to call a flatbed. I'm in this latter category and I have wondered (and worried) whether my next vehicle purchase should actually be a BEV or whether I should buy another ICE vehicle to eliminate the concern. Older people (and I am one of these) may be particularly anxious about navigating through a DC fast charging desert when road-tripping to the national parks or when visiting grand-children and other family members. I have heard (but this may only be hearsay and not correct) that about 20 percent of new BEV purchasers sell their BEVs and return to ICE vehicles because of the difficulty with DC fast charging.
That's why I bought a used 2015 VOLT. why not opt for PHEVs. Toyota and GM demonstrated that PHEV can be very reliable ( VOLT& PRIUS). No need for expensive DCFC, L2 at work place, malls, etc is enough. At home a L1 does the job overnight. Gas for long trips, no need to break your head.
In addition to getting DC fast chargers every 50 miles on all major highways, probably the biggest thing to deal with is deploying L2 charging stalls at shopping districts and malls, work locations, public garages and parking lots. We also need DC fast chargers at or near popular vacation destinations and national parks. I reassure many EV naysayers that they realistically won't have to worry about driving an EV - many of them will age out of driving by the time there are no more ICE vehicles and gas stations are a distant memory - perhaps 40-50 years from now. Basically take the very last year ICE vehicles are made and add at least 20 years to that - and that's just in the well developed world. It gets harder to predict with far less developed countries - and that's a long time - so anything could happen.
What I am hearing is that, without proper public charging infrastructure, the EV is a commuter car (as it needs to stay close to home to charge) with poor resale value (as most participants in the used car market won't have the charging infrastructure available, either because of installation cost at their dwelling or that the type of dwelling they live in prohibits installation, such as an apartment building). Given this, without a robust public charging infrastructure rollout its quite possible we will see EV demand slow down considerably in the years ahead - people who already own them will need to keep them longer to avoid poor trade in values and/or resale, saturating demand for this type of vehicle.
Great point Alex! People are easily misled that ONLY EVs can achieve zero emission, but this is NOT true. There are many ways to make zero-emission fuels that run fine in ICEs, so I see a greater future for (mild)HEV and PHEV than EV.
While I understand EV battery packs may last the general life of a car, the people who do have to buy them when they're over 10 years old and over 150,000 miles on them may be dealing with challenges. Nobody's going to want to replace battery packs on vehicles worth much less than the pack itself. Whether that's the owner or a used car dealership that wants to sell the car. So people that can't afford a new car will be stuck with old EVs with diminished ranges. And how many more cars will be scrapped early because it makes no financial sense to replace the packs? There's also the fact that these cars are computers on wheels. When they're 12-15 years old (not uncommon for many buyers), any computer repair will be unaffordable if they're even fixable at all.
My guess is used EV buyers will be a lot like new car buyers who don't have as big of a budget. Infrastructure needs to widen the potential user base but I don't think it's an acute issue.
Excellent discussion. Workplace charging makes a ton of sense to make the 75-100 mile range EV something Americans are willing to buy, and is absolutely critical to capture the sizable fraction of the auto buyers who live in a Multi family building or who rent a place without vehicle charging. 120V 15A AC garage parking isn't going to be enough for many commuters. Also, I noticed your camera's autofocus tracking your face, and it moved the microphone and cube on either sides of your face out of focus. I found the focus tracking to be a bit distracting, mostly the microphone with its mesh structure. Did anyone else get distracted by this? Would changing the autofocus region to only your face, locking the focus to a fixed depth, using a lens with a greater depth of field, moving the microphone farther away from the center of the screen or focal plane, or covering the microphone with a solid color foam cover work here? Just a few ideas.
I'm going to be dismissive too since we are talking of a problem that, if we are lucky 20 years from now. There are going used ICE cars for the foreseeable future. Thus, those that can't or don't want to have an EV for whatever reason will have ICE cars available, even if, at some future, no new ICE vehicles are made. I can't vouch for other manufacturers, but MB has vouched to fully recycle their batteries in a decade, which is also about when their present EV's will be exiting their new or second owners. Second, they warranty their batteries to still have 70% capacity for 10 years, regardless if you DC fast charged it to 100% every day.
I am a target new car buyer. Own a SFH, owned a PHEV for 10 years, want an EV and can afford it. We are a multi-car household so I do have a roadtrip ICE accessible. Still I do worry about spending lots of money for a car that I can only commute or take around town AND I'm hesitant to buy a Tesla. Is it logical? No but that's what I want. Half-ton trucks sell a lot, and most people who buy them have no need for them. Reality is sometimes based on perception not numbers. If non-Tesla infrastructure was better, I would have an ID.4 or Ioniq 5 now. Maybe I would consider a Bolt for a commuter-only car if there weren't markups, but I'd prefer the former two by a lot. I know that there are many like me. But how many, who knows.
Hey Alex, informative video. Could you please do a video on the recent trend of people going in for less number of leased cars, that are eventually resulting in lower number of used cars.
Good points, but I think you missed one in favor of used Evs. Old gas cars have greater and greater maintenance cost and a rising chance of major failure. Evs (on average) have much less risk and long term maintenance aside from battery degredation, which is a "forecastable" part of the deal
And how much are batteries again? The other stuff on the cars are susceptible to the same problems as other cars plus you have to factor in the added weight and what that does to cars but once those batteries come due, EVs are basically disposable at that point.
@@venom5809 I see your point but I don’t entirely agree. We have a 2004 Lexus ES that has basically original everything except tires and break pads, but some of the engine gaskets leak oil and it smokes when it hits the exhaust. If it were an EV, other than the battery degradation it would basically feel brand new. There are just so many more points of failure for an ICE over time.
@@TylerSchappe You are comparing a highly reliable Lexus product and assuming all EVs are the equivalent. A 2004 Lexus might be great but a 2004 Malibu might be a nightmare. Your Lexus issues can be fixed for peanuts compared to replacing a battery.
Thanks for an excellent analysis, as usual. I‘d love to see an analysis of Hybrid EV vs PHEV - for those of us who, for a variety of reasons, can‘t or don‘t yet wish to get a full EV.
@@Qrail If you live in an apartment and can’t plug in, can a PHEV act essentially like an HEV - I guess it might if the gas engine can charge the battery pack. And, if so, would there be any advantages (eg, if the battery can charge from the gas engine and, thus, being able to take advantage of the larger battery capacity, get overall better mileage than an HEV. Since you’re charging at the expense of gas, rather than electricity, a PHEV „run on gas“ would be more expensive than a PHEV you could plug in, but would its mileage be better than an HEV)? Are there any other possible advantages?
@@leetempel6076 to answer your questions, I will compare a Fusion hybrid to a Fusion PHEV. If you cannot plug in the PHEV, it would be a better bargain cost wise, to just buy the HEV. (The Energi PHEV goes for about $3k more than the HEV. The fuel economy is similar.) The HEV has a bigger trunk capacity, 12.8 vs 8.8. Cubic feet. The battery pack on the HEV is 1.6. On the PHEV, it is 8.8. The Energi will still function as a hybrid after the 28 miles of EV mode. My range equals out to about 621 miles. The advantage of the PHEV is pure electric, up to 30 miles; the hybrid will only blend gas/EV The advantage that stands out to me, (and a friend with a Volt) is short hops. Short commute, go to grocery store, or other errands like dining. Total 20 miles. Come home charge the car. Repeat 5 times. 100 miles, No gasoline used. The HEV will lose against the PHEV in this case. In hybrid mode, 45 mpg HEV score. PHEV 0.0 gas used. If you can’t charge from your apartment, then a pubic charging 240 volt station would take 2 hours to charge it for about $1.75. I hope that helps
One of the utopian long-term ideas is to offer an affordable public transport system and reduce the society's dependence on cars.There are many metropolitan areas in the U.S. with more than 1 million residents without any subway system. Intercity trains are mostly a tourist attraction, etc..
In 12-18 months I’ll be shopping for an used BEV. Hoping to find a recent sedan with not many miles. For example, right now Polestar has a few used Polestar 2 2022 for a nice discount, so I’m hoping to find a Polestar 2023/24 with that nice discount.
It sounds good, but what are the design features that are directed towards new car buyers? How do these differentiate from used car buyers? Your distinction really makes no sense, as any given vehicle is likely to be sold as both a new, and eventually a used vehicle. Can you elaborate more on this premise? My wife and I are both over 55, own our home and a household income a bit above the US median. I prefer used gasoline cars with good mileage, she prefers new hybrids with good mileage. We both like things like heated seats and other conveniences. How is her new Honda CRV Hybrid designed for a new car buyer, but my three year old Audi A5 not designed for a new car buyer? Here in the semi-urban midwest, there is very little charging infrastructure. We just don't want the hassle of dealing with hour long waits in a Walmart parking lot if we want to take a road trip of 4-500 miles. When there are DC fast chargers in abundance at every gas station/truck stop on the interstate, we'll consider an EV. Until then, it's just a hard nope.
Great analysis! What do you think about the idea of moving 2+ car households to 1 BEV for around-town and another PHEV/hybrid for trips? Supposedly 60% of US households are in this situation. Practical?
I personally think that would be the ideal setup for the next 15 years. Gas isn't going away anytime soon. I would say, you could make the BEV the daily commuter/local errands car and get a truck/3rd row SUV/Minivan PHEV that has towing ability and/or cross-country road tripping. The biggest disadvantage I see to a PHEV is the additional complexity of two drive trains means more opportunities for things to go wrong. Actual data on service would be needed to validate my suspicions. I do wish the batteries were just a bit larger on PHEVs - most don't get more than 30 miles on a charge. At least with Tesla, I haven't noticed a huge additional time added to medium range trips (under 500 miles) when I have my family and dog with me. Everyone needs a pitstop for one reason or another - so that adds 15-30 minutes every 2-3 hours of driving anyway.
That’s our house, a BEV, a PHEV and then an older ICE that can tow and seats 8. But we’re fortunate to have a garage with two chargers. I doubt we will ever sell the old ICE vehicle.
Excellent video! Having had 2 EVs and never ever having used a public charger, your data holds true in our case. Single family home, dual income household, which also usually means another car (which was an ICE in our case, as in many)...so charging infrastructure nor range anxiety for those mythical 2000 mile road trips were ever a concern. Absolutely agree these will become issues as EVs become the mainstream, but quite a ways out at least for now.
Very interesting statistics. Never really thought about car demographics. I think a lot of people cannot afford the prices of EV’s right now except those in higher income brackets (as you have indicated). Hard to say about the used EV market. Battery degradation may play a big role in pricing. Time will tell.
@Tim Gurr ... As a current owner of a 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5, I expect battery pricing and technology will have changed soooo much that battery degradation is not a concern; I'll just replace the battery, as would any purchaser of an used EV. Of course, a badly degraded battery lowers the selling price where a new battery would make sense to buy. We are not there yet.
Very interesting new car sales stats. One of the implications is that, at some point in the maybe long term future, electric cars should depreciate more than normal (single family house EV ownership saturates). It will be interesting to see how this will all plays out. The only thing I'm sure of is that the States mandating only EVs for new car sales by 203X will end up creating massive exceptions or delay implementation by many years. Huge expensive changes in public EV charging are necessary, and current progress is not remotely close to what is needed. (Tesla and European charging networks show it can be done, but for some reason the US non Tesla networks have horrible reliability.)
Well said. For something as less disruptive as Real ID, the deadlines have been changing since 15 years. I'm sure the 203x EV mandates face the same fate.
No one talks about ev drive train. Are they all the same? Who uses the best armature, stators, windings come to mind. Is the battery liquid cooled? How many water pumps run the system. Everyone talks like ice vehicles have so much maintenance. I would argue that ev's will need maintenance and that maintenance will be costly.
I have a PHEV. Drove downtown the other day and the parking ramp has EV chargers. There's a sign saying to unplug when your car's done charging, which makes sense, but am I really going to run back out to the parking garage to move my car after I get my 20 miles? Not a chance. So I didn't plug in and just burned dino juice on the way back.
Interesting. I'm quite a bit younger than that 55 year old average new car buyer, but hit on all the other points. I own my own home (my third), have bought (not leased) four new cars since I was 25, and work in securities litigation so my income is quite a bit higher than the median. BUT I still haven't bought an EV yet because the range just isn't there yet. I want to be able to make it from my house in central VA to my office in DC and back without having to stop for a recharge. My ICE has no problem doing that, but no EV can yet.
Alex what do you mean that new cars are being designed for new car drivers?? Hasn't that always been the case? I must be an outlier? I:ve only purchased one car brand new. It was my very first car purchase. I was in my early 20's. I could by a new car now but I choose not to . I let someone else take the initial depreciation! I was all ready to buy a full EV BMW I4. However, I changed my after giving it some more though! I live in California, where charging stations are plentiful! I do plan to move to another state. There's where the charging stations getting harder to come by, especially if you aren't not on the Tesla ecosystem! Now I have decided to get a plugin hybrid. Possibly a 2023 Toyota Prius? I agree with you that EV vehicles may not be our savior as we are being led to believe..... Great content. Keep up the good work 👍
IEEE Spectrum has a series of insightful articles on the EV transition. The scale of this undertaking is staggering and in the end it won't be a panacea for the alleged "climate change," but it will require huge expansion of the power grid, development of the charger infrastructure, reshaping of the labour market, etc. And yes the aftershocks may turn ugly.
0:33 To some degree, new cars *_are_* designed for used-car buyers. This is because one of the factors considered by the new-car buyer is *_depreciation_* . Without deliberately designing for longevity and product-support at, say, the 10-year age point, new cars might suffer a 100% 10-year depreciation-rate. This would be a turn-off for new-car buyers. Even if Owner 1 plans on selling it at the 3-year point, the vehicle becomes a hot-potato as it ages, and no one wants to be left holding it at the Year 10 zero-value point, which reduces its value for any previous owner. We saw this occur with the oil-futures market in April 20, 2020. No one wanted to be left holding that self-heating hot-potato as it got hotter and hotter.
Right ad a few cars do deprecate slower then go back up like Mustangs because of that support like all Mustangs have full parts support and will for as long as people love them.
What are we going to do with all of these batteries? They’re going to be recycled. Look at Redwood Materials. They’re already ramping up and there are more companies on the way.
I think a law similar to Norway's "Right to Charge" law to be helpful for non-home owners. Such a law drives property owners of multi-tenant dwellings to install L2 chargers or have extension cords all over their properties as eye sores w/o recourse to prevent.
This kind of law will NEVER, EVER happen in the United States. Anything remotely resembling it will allow landlords to charge outrageous monthly amounts for "an assigned parking space" and more outrageous monthly amounts for "access to an electric outlet" of any kind. Who is going to pay something like $1,000 per month to a landlord, for "the right" to charge at their apartment complexes? Whatever the answer to that question may be, nothing remotely like Norway's "right to charge" law will happen unless landlords can make massive profits for providing access to charging at their properties.
@@tomhoots in the Chicago suburbs where I was raised several thousands of dollars for a parking space was the norm at the metro stations & they were all taken. I respectfully disagree with the never. Similar beliefs concerning DCFC fed funds were common a year ago. One back room convo between GM & Biden admin contacts later $7.5 b is being disperse & chargers are going in the ground
For me personally, what holds me back from an EV is a combination of a bit of everything. Mostly it’s due to a lack of options with specifications that I want. For instance, I want a “proactive” style AWD system due to how bad winter roads can get here.. and often stay pretty bad for days or a couple weeks at times. I’m a bit spoiled with a Passport with winter tires which has been stable like a tank even in the middle of blizzard conditions. I also want good ground clearance. Then being in a harsh winter region, the range hit in cold weather is a big concern for me. I think I’d be okay with a mid-size SUV that could reach 300 miles at 0 degrees F. But then at what cost? That’s the next issue for me.. the increasing costs, increasing loan rates, increased insurance costs, and restrictions on the tax rebates. Cost to install a faster charger at home. One plus is that there is a large source of chargers 3 miles from my house with I think 8-10 tesla superchargers and 6 other chargers (not sure which brand). But when I look at the routes when I need to make long trips, I’m seriously disappointed with both the lack of options for charging, the specific locations of them (I don’t want to stop in a major city exit that will take longer to get off/on), and confusing information on which charging spots offer which charging speeds and uncertainty of backup options if those are full/down. Personally, I’m on the lookout for the Honda Prologue. Even though it’s a GM base, GM does pretty well with EV designs and I’m hoping the interior will have some influence of Honda’s fit and finish. I’m just waiting to hear details on range, ground clearance, awd system, and pricing.
Some new car buyers care about resale value (of the used car) so the used car market has some impact on new car sales. That’s why new Toyotas have done so well.
If there is no level 2 at home or work, the price of used EV will drop dramatically. What will happen is people buying used EV for their teenage drivers that are living with their parents.
Resell value is only a small portion of the New Buyer needs. Used Car design is DEFINITELY part of the equation but most cars are designed for 3 year Lease and beyond that they just need to not be worse than average.
This is very interesting, not sure about the US, but in Australia home ownership is decreasing due to the very high cost of entry. I wonder what this might mean for new car sales overall?
I've looked at getting an EV, but they are SO expensive. Looked at used EVs and the prices are almost the same. Considering using my down-payment to repair my 225K mile, ICE car instead.
This is my situation too. For now, I'm hopeful my car will last into the 200,000s so I can pass it down to my oldest who starts driving in five years, at which point hopefully there's either a reasonable used car market (including decent-range EVs) or new, lower-cost EV options.
I'm not sure I understand... A quick look at some homeowners statistics makes me think that some 75% are in single-family homes. (I'm including condos, since they often have a garage - that's my own situation.) So three-quarters of Americans today AND in ten years rarely need fast-charging. A level 1 charger is fine. Once in a while, for long drives, the level 1 isn't sufficient, but for most Americans it would be smarter to rent a bigger, faster-charging car for those rare occasions. I'm pretty sure Hertz and the others will be happy to cater to this market. So our problem isn't really the infrastructure. Our problem is to get people out of their fossil-fuel mindset, and into an EV one.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough I live in the Southwest. Distances are, as you say, LONG. But people don't drive from Yuma to Phoenix every day. They drive around Yuma, which is dispersed like all cities in the region... but even so, daily commutes are under 100 miles. Most people have their own home (from tailor park on up) so they have access to daily level 1 charging. You are right that there are probably more long drives out here, than in New England. All I am saying is that I'm sure most people will be fine with small battery & motor, on a level 1 charger. If people want their best deal, economically, they must do a little thinking. With an ICE, thinking has not been necessary. It's a change, a people don't change easily.
@@bobnelsonfr this is a real issue for most people, to include my better half. She can't imagine driving an EV yet, because most we can afford won't go 300 miles on a full battery like her current car does on a tank of gas. Thing is, she drives to the school a literal mile away, two times a day. Maybe a 20-mile round-trip to the grocery or something once or twice a week. She's pretty much the bullseye for the cheaper EVs like the Bolt and LEAF. So far, I've at least got her looking into PHEVs, which is a start. But those are needlessly more complex and expensive to own long-term. I can see a future where we have a commuter EV for me, going 50ish miles round-trip to work, and a PHEV for her so she'd still have her gas engine for those "just in case" cases that we almost never use. Just in case.
@@bobnelsonfr we're in rural Tennessee, two hours from anywhere. Just on the edge of the full round-trip range of the big battery LEAF and the Bolt if we needed to get to any of the nearest metro areas. We once had to take our oldest son to a hospital in one of those cities by car. Once! Because he broke his arm and it was not possible to do the surgery in our area. How often will we have to do that in the future? Hopefully never again. And we arguably should have called for an ambulance in that one case, but you live and learn. For other, non-emergency cases, I would rather rent. That's been my philosophy since I gave up a pickup truck. You can rent a truck, $20ish per day. You know how often I've had to do that? The same number of times I've needed to transport a kid with a broken arm to a trauma center since that fateful day: zero! I realize anecdote is not evidence and most people may not be like me, but I bet a lot more people have driving needs that could easily be met by EVs. They've just got to be convinced to try it and see.
Keep preaching!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 but the focus hunt in this video is pretty annoying. Use a less shallow lens and just fix the focus. We don’t need bokeh for this kind of video.
Used car prices affect new car prices. Give it 2 to 5 years for the effect, if there is a negative impact, to set in. Comes faster with leasing costs (less residual value) and slower for people that purchase with a loan and trade before the loan is paid.
Test drove the model Y and did not like the ride at all. Felt like a very expensive golf cart. Tech was great but the ride was firm and rough over every single bump.
When I see EV charging stations their poor locations, or in locations not convenient, or in busy shopping areas that i never would want to go to etc etc , and always packed, and all these youtubers having issues with their EVs in the real world, and places such as commiefornia that tells you to not charge your car in the summer....well...i would say EV infastructure is actually a big problem, even for those that charge their cars at home in places such as CA, NV, AZ and anywhere else that has power issues. then theres the supply and demand part....wait til you have to choose between your EV and AC in the summer when electric bills skyrocket because of supply and demand. I see tons of people charging their teslas at their stations every day, and very often see waiting lines....which tells me many are not charging their cars at home, or they drove more than they expected and have to charge and wont make it home. each one of these appliances take their sweet time to charge no matter how fast they can charge. not one ev out there can charge at a rate that is comparable to a gas/hev to fill up, and they never will either. the only reason why EVs have been taking off at the level they have been over the last couplel years is governments and their green bullshit, but they fail to see the bigger impact later on. when government becomes a pimp for the private industry and does it under the umbrella of "muh environment" its already a scam. if these were to practical and to be adopted why would they need to use taxpayers money to get people interested? its because most people use their brains when they buy a new or newer vehicle. now to be fair, emissions from tail pipes is a problem. some peoples cars (cough diesel dooshes cough) for example stink. its nice to not smell exhaust in traffic as cars have become better with their emissions. I personally cannot stand attention seekers with their obnoxous popping and buzzing exhaust...ive tuned my bmws in the past and never opted to be one of those turds that need to be heard everywhere miles away. I for one support our EVs when it comes to a quieter and cleaner environment at the street level. this of course until the noise bros hook up external speakers to the EV hellcats and be even more obnoxious. I am not anti alternative to ice vehicle. EV is an option, but its not always the ultimate solution that the pimps are claiming. the mining of natural materals, as well as other issues have not been met yet. from a practical side....my hybrid, if it was fully loaded, costs $15000 less than a fully loaded EV made by the same car maker both being similar size and type or its base model is about 22k cheaper vs a fully loaded EV model (using the fully loaded EV because its the highest possible range). the charging costs, oil changes, and other few differences would take over 12 years to financially break even and thats assuming neither has a major failure during that time and electricity or charging prices do not change at all. everything, no matter if its a tesla or a GM or a toyora batteries do degrade and cost more to charge as time goes on with more freuquent charging. Evs are not environmentally sustainable until the batteries will hold 90% of their life over 20-30 year span even when abused, and can be recycled almost fully as well. but if that is even ever sustainable, they still wont ever be practical for the masses and options for non all EV have to be available. we also arent talking about your geographical place in the country. EVs in cold climates do not hold up. half of the USA is part of this seasonally. cant charge them, range diminished, so on. when its 25 degrees ill still get over 30mpg, even with the cold reducing my mpg...but i can still go almost 400 miles and refuel anywhere. the EV.....may not make it to the next charger, even though it would if it was over 40F outside. theres a considerable amount of folks that an Ev is even less practical. in the southern USA where is warmer and more mild winter time they will certainly do better. would i own one? the answer is yes, i would consider it. for work uses, they are not at all practical, however for my use of them around town i would probably charge it away from home once every 4 weeks which means i can plug it in at home and whatever it has it has, and prob daily charging would replenish my daily usage if not pretty close to it. when my hybrid is using its EV it is smoother, quieter, and its accelleration is more fun. they arent bad cars at all, but its all about practical and future reliabilty. but when i want to randomly get in my car and drive out of town, 240 miles wont cut it, and im not interested in planning my route and stressing out on a relaxing road trip. i want to get in and go, and i can fill up in 7 min not 107. when things are new, there is a honeymoon period of excitement, but when people start using it real world, they will find and talk about their faults, my new car included. but when we see real world vs advertising and brainwashing.....now we see companies still pledging to spend billions on ICE development, and smart companies like toyota telling us they arent interested in EV so much and they arent jumping on the bandwagoon so fast. so until an EV can charge in under 15 minutes reliaably, cheaply, and anywhere without having to plan ahead, ill keep my HEV....but i am considering a plug in version for the around town daily errands and avoid the gas stations far more often while leaving myself the option to enjoy life on the good ole american road trip.
One small thing I'm missing in the title is that it isn't a problem yet ... in the USA. There are countries where this is essentially a bigger problem, where people live closer together and off street parking is a lot loss common. I do understand the demographics, and I think that you'll find similar stats around the world. although I have to confess, I don't fit the description. My first new car came around the age of 30, my first BEV around 35 and I'm currently waiting for my second BEV. I do live in a single family home, with off street parking, but my income? That's far away from 100k.
Ironically, the total carbon footprint of a homeowner in suburbia commuting everyday with an EV is likely much higher than a someone living in the city and commuting less in their gas car. Not to mention the added health benefit of being able to walk more and not have to worry about parking, although cities still zone in to much parking accommodate suburbanites who drive into the city.
Alex, excellent video. Shocking, new cars are being designed for targeted buyers? Ha ha but its accurate and the honest truth. Car makers are in the business to sell as many models as they can. We might high HP coupes for example but thats not where the bulk of buyers are. As for EV's if people didn't want them, they would not be sold. So much mainstream media, is paid to say what they are told not the truth or what they want to say.
The statistics discussed in this video also seem to reinforce your opinion about EV vs PHEV vs Hybrid, in terms of real world environmental impact. We would see a much greater environmental benefit from the battery supplies we currently have by making all new cars conventional hybrids, and then when supplies grow, all PHEVs, and when they grow even more, finally all EVs. Such a strategy would also buy us a lot more time to solve the issues that non-home-charging used EV owners might face currently.
Ask any former hybrid owner why they got rid of their vehicle. That's the answer why companies like Toyota won't be able to catch up in the EV business. When you read stats about "EV" owners selling their vehicles, the MSM forgets to mention they are talking about hybrids, not BEVs.
Please do a video on where all the electricity is going to come from to charge these EV's. Right now,for example, in the summer California tells people to conserve electricity to avoid brown outs or rolling black outs because there isn't enough to go around. Add 100,000 EV's to the load and where is that electricity going to come from? I have yet to hear anyone talk seriously about that subject.
Charging network domination makes Tesla the new King of the hill. Personally i charge 99% in my garage. Not afraid to road trip in my X, Tesla's got my Back!!!. Your right with your info and observations ! Your excellent, T.V. show, EV Buyers Guide with Alex
Funny you should mention used Evs, I started the EV pruchase process with a offer from one of my normal dealers bringing in used Leafs to resale, and they were CA specials. Good thing I did not take any as they all had significant battery degradation (due to CA and AZ heat) and no Canadian warranty (warranties are country specific). Just happened that the same week I was about to make an offer, the dealer told me why not buy a brand new 2019 Soul EV (luxury model w/o glass roof). Kia was offering CAD$4,000.00 off list, and Canada just started it EV credit program of -$5,000.00 off new EV purchases and so did the BC Provincial Government another -$5,000.00 off (both are point of sale credits). At the end of the day I traded that car for a Brand New 2023 Ioniq 5 (Canadian Limited equivalent model) and they payed $4,000.00 over my cost purchase price! Not all is roses though, my 2023 Ionic 5 still cannot fast DC charge (that was the reason we bought it for long road trips) as we also have a 2020 Kia Soul EV Limited (64KWH) for local driving (it is actually ok for long trips but was being prudent as I was noticing line ups at the few DC chargers that were working, so waiting for a 18 minute charge is not painfull). So far the Hyundai dealer ordered a CCS / J1772 socket wiring harness assembly (it has what they though it needed a replacement DC pin temperature sensor), that took 10 weeks to order and install. next step is likely a CCU unit replacement Charging Control Unit, that will take another 8 weeks on order. Long story short, teh 2019 Kia Soul did not have maximum charge management so I had to buy a Level 2 WiFi smart charger to limit the daily charge to 80%, so as you gather I am a homeowner that had no issue with at home charging. Status of used Ev's will become an issue in a few years, good point!
Battery life/degradation is automatically linked to BEV range for me because I don't plan on selling my cars. I only buy new too so 300 miles of BEV range isn't going to still be 300 miles in 5, 10, or 15 years down the road. This is before we even start talking about range loss from weather and the 80% charging topic too. I doubt we'll see answers/solutions before the problem proves its own existence but I'm glad to see I'm not the only one keeping these worries in mind looking at the future. BEV fanatics scoff at range anxiety but blatantly ignore the long-term owner in severe weather areas that isn't as topographically flat as Kansas. The second anyone says they would love 600+ miles of BEV range, BEV fanatics ignore the entire argument as if battery degradation doesn't exist in reality. I'm glad to see the USDM is proving all of the BEV fanatics wrong on range anxiety. Otherwise we'd all be driving Nissan Leafs and Chevy Bolts by now.
There are 10 year old teslas running around with 10% or so loss… nothing major. I have a 7 year old compliance car with very poor ev and battery design (air cooled) it’s at 87% battery life and still has 3 years left on the battery warranty Even if a 300 mile range vehicle has 50% range loss it’s still useful for someone… I’d buy a lightning with 120 miles of range in 15-20 years for cheap
Plenty of people have already considered these issues and infrastructure in public and at apartments is already being built. We are not going to have a 100% EV fleet anytime soon and still far away from even 80% new EV sales. The sky is not falling, chicken little.
This concern about what is going to happen to my battery in 10 years is a red herring. Its a nothing burger really. If someone is buying lets say a used 2020 4 cylinder RAV4 today they are not asking themselves "hmm i wonder if in 10 years or in 100,000 miles from now i might have to replace or majorly repair the engine?" I don't think anyone is making that calculus when buying a new or used ICE car why would you ask that question about a BEV? This question is a holdover from the 1st gen Nissan LEAF with their small air cooled batteries that got fried in Arizona/New Mexico and Utah or other hot climates. And that narrative got blown up by the media in 2015-2017 about BEV batteries losing half their capacity in 3-5 years and costing $10,000 plus dollars to replace and it freaked everyone out. With a modern liquid cooled BMS controlled battery pack this is basically a non issue. There are Chevy Bolts out there with over 100,000 miles on them with less than 10% battery degradation. Same with those people that bought early Model Ses as taxis or Ubers with 300,000+ miles on them with less than 15% degradation.
People don't ask themselves if they will have to replace an ICE engine in 100k because they won't if they maintain it. And their gas tank doesn't shrink over time. If it starts with 400 miles of range it will still have it a decade later
Looking 10 years down the road? Let’s go back to 1996 first. GM unveiled the EV-1. 10 years later, 2006, they were nonexistent. Now, back up 10 years, 2010, where was Tesla? In their formative stages. Now go 10 or 20 years forward. A-I will become more prevalent. My crystal ball might be a little cloudy 🌥. But as described in the video, the new car manufacturers cater to those new car buyers. Us “second hand” buyers might be smarter or not. (Less depreciation & no car payments ). The Audi dealer rented me a Tesla, because my eTron is in a recall. While I choose not to spend 1/2 my income on a car payment, it is a nice car. Different, but nice. Oh, 10 years from now? I will be 80 ish, so not too concerned. As long as I can plug in my Jazzy scooter, I will endure. Edited for spelling.
Very believable statistics. I bought my first new truck when I was 45. Our first new fancy Lincoln was purchased last year when I was 65. I think these younger whipper snappers are living on the edge i they are buying new cars. Our Lincoln is a plug in hybrid. Not much range on battery. Probably will not have a great resale value when we sell it.
The single critical issue is that the world must electrify. This means both transportation and energy production itself. While the challenges are great (assuming a BEV world in x years) they will be solved as have all other transportation challenges of the past. Trains required the laying of track across the entire country. It happened. Cars required and infrastructure of thousands and thousands of gas stations. It happened. EVs (or whatever might be superior) will require both much greater range and a massive charging infrastructure. It will happen. This isn't fanboyism or tech worship, it's simply historical fact.
Trains run on huge diesel engines powering electric motors. I see how you sidestepped that one. I'm not against ev's. They have a place for some but hardly come close for many.
@@bobcook8576 Not sure what you mean by "sdie-stepped" but when the tracks were first laid the trains were powered by coal/wood which was converted to steam. In any event, I'm merely pointing out that the transition to new technologies is the central characteristic of societal change.
But an issue in your numbers is your assuming the average new car shopper is the advegre car owner and the adverge americain. I don' know about the second one but your dead wrong about the third one.
CATL/EVOGO Modular Battery Swapping 2022-01-18.... which allows the "average" swapped pack to be at a much lower capacity, then fixed battery packs ... So thank you, for pointing out one of its hundreds of advantages...
What Tesla lots are you talking about when you say they’re sitting on them? Tesla doesn’t maintain proper dealerships or lots. If Tesla had excess inventory, it would be sitting on the factory lots.
Limited infrastructure and poor reliability is the worst part of non Tesla EVs. I’ve suffered through this for a long time. You may be able to charge from home, but for trips outside of town this makes the vehicles very limited. I want to take my expensive and comfortable vehicle on trips.
Alex, do you think solar-powered EV will ever take off? Lightyear0 is folded, Sion is on death bed, and there's Aptera in your golden state. Your friend Jason Fenske made a video about a year ago, but I want to know your opinion as well.
Basic math says solar EVs will likely never be viable. The cells are too heavy, inefficient, and expensive vs getting the energy from the grid. At 15W per sqft, a solar EV with 75 sqft of solar panels would only generate 8.1kWh on an ideal day. Best case scenario that's only enough to travel 26 miles a day.
You made some valid points and a good analysis but all you did is change from the title subject to talk about new car buyers. You should become a politician. All EV batteries are repurposed. The day they can't be repurposed, they go either directly to recyclers or are held in storage until they can be recycled. Infrastructure is a major problem, price parity (or lack of) is a major problem. Implementing the solutions for people that have no place, at home, to charge is a major problem, the price gouging at the public chargers is a major problem. These can't be dealt with one at a time, they need to be dealt with now, otherwise ...
I’m confused by what you mean by “EV Infrastructure.” If you’re trying to say that EV _charging_ infrastructure isn’t a current problem, then I wholeheartedly disagree. EV charging infrastructure is a problem _right now_ and it has been basically since the inception of modern EVs. The biggest limiting factors for people switching are driving range on a single charge and where they’re going to charge it. One could argue that some of these concerns are irrational for a typical new car buyer’s, but so are many of the desires of a typical new car buyer. There’s no reason that EVs should be expected to accelerate 0-60mph in 4-5 seconds, but that is what the typical EV buyer wants, so that’s what we get. Additionally, owning a home doesn’t automatically mean that you have the capacity to charge your EV at home. The very typical west coast city that I live in has a substantial number of older homes without garages or even driveways. They only have on street parking. These houses are some of the most expensive in the city because they’re in the desirable “historic” parts of the city. Short of trenching and running power out to the curb to install a curbside EV charger (and jumping through the hoops to get the city to allow you to do that in a “historic” district), these homeowners have no capacity to charge at home. Beyond that, even for those of us who do charge at home, there are still occasions where we travel away from home and need to charge while on the road. I’ve noticed a number of California based EV owners who claim that public charging infrastructure in fine near them and seem to assume that it’s fine everywhere. It isn’t. Not by a long shot. I can’t even count how many times I’ve pulled up to a DC fast charging location only to find that it is full or broken or charging at an obscenely low speed. I’ve never been stranded, but the experience isn’t good. I consider myself to be a highly skilled EV driver, meaning that I am quite good a planning routes myself, getting to chargers with enough charge to be safe but not so much that the car charges too slowly, etc. I cannot imagine trying to road-trip a non-Tesla EV given the current EV infrastructure across the vast majority of the country and without adequate onboard route planning (a feature that most EVs don’t have). So yeah, my opinion is that EV charging infrastructure is a major problem right now, and it’s getting substantially worse as more and more EVs end up on the road being driven by people who treat them like ICE vehicles.
6:16 You forget we are in the age of work from home and have been since 2020...Edit: if your older your more likely to work at an office still as you are an older employee or are retrreed... which is a luxury for younger people aka those under 50.
lmao.... he already made the point, that new EVs are for adults going to work at real jobs.... it's not for the trolling kids staying home in their basement...
