Great video. Read Hogan’s book (2-3 times) and have watched a ton of videos of Moe. Lots of wisdom in Moe’s words. Like them both, the driving range is my happy place.
These are a fantastic series of videos. They are really helping me rethink my golf swing. I'm just about understanding the non rotational trail hand and I love the rock skipping swing thought
This is still one of my favorite videos you have released. Would love to see the break down with an iron and a wedge shot. Side note, will you have any chipping or pitching with single plane videos? Thanks!
I purchased The Single Plane Swing Book recently. Lots of good and detailed info including drills that can be done at home. Yes, the set up is key but so is the transition in my view. All useful stuff.
Very good and insightful presentation Todd. For me, as a student of the swing however, I don't want to even think about "spine tilt" lol. If you set up with the lead arm and shaft forming a straight line from the shoulder to the club head, you'll automatically have the correct spine tilt once you place the trail hand on the club. Something else to consider, and I bet it would've made sense to Hogan, is the plane of the arm triangle. With the Hogan centered set-up, that plane is actually open to it's path. Setting up as you show, the arm triangle plane is on it's inside take-away path.
Todd, great job - wow - detailed explanation excellent - no way I could play as much as I do without single plane my lower back would be killing me - simplest easiest swing to repeat and on the body
Wow! Been studying your channel for a week with a couple of practice sessions. Played today and it is seeming to come together. Been struggling with distance but only missed 2 fairways today and hit several longer than normal drives. :)
Hey Todd, Just wanted to write and say that I Really like how you break all this down to specific moves. I'm a 10 hc and I've been a little frustrated with my game. Been practicing about a week now single plane and I feel like I'm more accurate in just this short time. I am still working on the driver but its nice to go to the range and have some real stuff to build off of. My checkpoints and grip and all that. Anyways thanks again. My day is just better when I'm playing good golf lol
Perhaps your best ever. Five Fundamentals and also Power Golf. Hogan had really bad days. Moe was much more consistent- as you have discussed. The game is hard enough based on terrain - a little grass ahead of the ball or a little. Behind. Hard pan and below the feet etc etc. etc A repeatable simple swing motion leads to increased confidence. Great video.
Sir I agree with you . Because When I put my trail hand on top of the golf club , I felt no power there . But as I put my trail hand according to Moe Norman , I feel more stability in my grip.
WOW> what a great presentation ! Todd, most conventional say the left shoulder goes down on the back swing , being the body is tilted at address, you "FEEL" the left should go level? Facts are Facts and you Have them !! well done! Moe never had to talk about weight shift or getting into the right hip joint>>>He set up there! I think this presentation (since everyone talks about Hogan) could be a real changing of the guard!! Clap , Clap!
Ben Hogan built a swing for Ben Hogan. Moe Norman built a swing for everyone else. I've studied both extensively... Moe was/is the master. Why do you feel the vast majority of tour players don't setup with even slightly more shoulder tilt, let's say just 10 degrees, at address? Seems like such a simple thing to do to minimize complexity. Great video.
Give us a break, Tour players are so gifted and play the game at a level (complete game) beyond what Moe Norman did or ever could achieve, even Moe had a hell of a time on the PGA Tour and by his own words IF HE COULD HAVE PUTTED BETTER, but he did not. I do not think anyone would put down Moe Normans ball striking but golf takes a bid more then just getting to the green you have to get it in the hole. Even Todd and Tim are both proof that having Moe Normans swing does not guarantee you can play with the big boys.
The game of golf is how many shots it takes to get the ball into the hole, not how you look doing it. Mos swing worked for him. Hogan’s worked for him, tigers multiple swings have worked for him, etc. You can have a “perfect” swing and still not have the best score.
I met Moe when he was 64 years old in 1994. HE was hitting the ball 265 - 275 yards. There is no doubt in my mind that that he hit it just as far as Hogan and Trevino.
Brilliant. Maybe even a smoking gun! Or the Elephent in the room! SIDE BEND!! This is huge. (Along with less right and left hand rotation and lateral head movement.) Introducing the "New Improved Modern Fundamentals" - By Todd Graves and Ben Hogan. That said, when you have tasted FOG, there is no turning back to the close-to-ball-and-body clear and lengthen saga of the old two plane swing.
Hey Todd ... I was experimenting with tilt and shoulders open vs closed, and it really boils down to address - the tilt and position of the shoulders determine the swing plane throughout the swing, so long as you maintain tilt. Am I right in this? I tilted the opposite way for fun- and I realized that I took it back extremely high and steep as a result- so you do the exact thing you’re teaching to get back on plane. It might seem super obvious but it wasn’t to me until I experimented with that lol
I've been doing the single plane swing for a total of 2 months. I've learned every position and move. I spend a lot of time in front of a mirror getting it right. I've always been a pretty good single digit player, but NEVER have I stood over the ball with so much confidence. I'm actually hitting it longer than ever and am hitting WAY more fairways. Holes that used to scare the crap out of me with water and bunkers I laugh how I actually used to hit it there. And as for the idea that Hogan could have been better? Well I have not hit a hook for basically since I learned to get away from the ball. I used to hit 2 or 3 hooks a round. I am incapable of hitting hooks. I can still draw it easily. So yea...if someone like Hogan who had a problem with hooks? I could see them being better with this swing. Combine Hogan's talent with the simplest most efficient swing on earth.....probably better.
With the club face so far back of the ball at address it requires quite substantial forward movement to get to the ball. Does this not make for inconsistent striking?
That last video date 9-11-87 looks like it was taken at Oakdale Golf Club in Toronto (Jane St. & Sheppard Ave). Those three buildings are the “Exbury Towers” on Jane Street. Another great Canadian Golfer, George Knudsen, was an assistant pro there before joining the PGA tour I believe. Played that course three years ago in a charity event. Great golf course.
This is probably a dumb question or request, but , could you talk a little more about the takeaway? I noticed on this video its more of an underneath to the inside type move. I have been working on this single plane and loving it. Something that stood out about this video is the rotation of the lead hand as well, i find that i start my swing with the mindset of left hand rotating in and then firing it through with no thought about trail hand (right hand)but it feels like i am thinking about supinating my left hand through the swing. Not sure this makes sense.
In the takeaway, from the Single Plane address, I turn. The pelvis turns and the torso turns. The lead arm turns with this movement - equally. If I asked the torso, "did the lead arm turn?" the Torso would say "No". My point is that move everything together in the first movement and you will Naturally move the club to the inside without even trying.
@@ToddGravesGolf thanks a bunch Todd! Working on this swing and hoping to have this 365 day golf swing. Now just working on the transition and the release. Tough for me to not use those hands and rotate the body due to my old baseball habits. I want to be able to just get the arms/hands to the top of the swing and take the swing without any thought and the hands be exactly where they need to be without any manipulation. Life goals. Thank you for your help.
Just maybe...one of the best conventional swings is Fred Couples. I mentioned Fred's name as the back compression that's mentioned here...just might have help Fred in his early days. Tiger and Fred...both with major back problems. Just maybe...having that side tilt at address? To say Ben Hogan could have been better! That is believe in Moe and his knowledge. These visuals made it easier to grasp your message. Thanks Todd.
Nice work but one big flaw. You need to look at the spine in 3D. You are claiming that the head moving down and pelvis up creates compression. This would be true if the bottom and top of the spine were stationary. As you show in your graphics that is not the case. The bottom of the spine is moving toward the target which keeps the bottom and top of the spine the same distance apart. You can see this if you hold a golf club vertically. and then move the bottom toward the target so that it is now tilted at your 25 degrees. You will notice that the top of the club moves down and the bottom moves up, but the two are not closer together so there is no compression. It is otherwise a nicely done presentation. I would also point out that it looks like Moe Norman's spine was dropping almost a foot into impact which seems like it would be difficult for people to replicate.
Dan Johnson good points here. However I have studied the spine in 3D. It is not like a club shaft as you mentioned. The spine is made of 33 vertebrae and shaped like an “s” and compression occurs when there is an upward movement and a downward force. The only way to reduce compression is to eliminate the upward force. A push of a straight leg pushes up on the pelvis and sacrum. Unless the upper spine moves upward there well be compression. Moe’s sacrum lowered - this simple fact reduces compression on the lower vertebrae .
@@ToddGravesGolf You need to measure from top to bottom at setup and compare to impact which will show if there is compression or not. Because the spine is more tilted at impact the top has to be lower. The number of vertebrae is irrelevant. For compression you need to show the top and bottom closer together. You have not done that. Maybe you can? I am sure in some swings where you see the hips moving in toward the ball that it may be happening, but in most of the top players swings the sacrum is moving up and more toward the target while the head and upper spine move back. This means that there is no compression. Moving down as Moe did would also possibly create compression due to gravity dropping and then stopping at impact. Without measurements it is hard to say. I will try to find a study that has already been done. Dr. Kwon comes to mind and I believe that I have seen something he has published a while back that shows that there is no compression as you are claiming in the tour swing.
@@danjohnson8452 Again. You have some good points. But according to the Texas Back institute - Dr. Ralph Rashbaum - who has been promoting Single Plane - verifies that compression as simply pushing up on the lower back. Number of vertebrae is relevant because it shows that each individual vertebrae is independent - In between your vertebrae, you have intervertebral discs These act like pads or shock absorbers for your spine. When these discs are compressed they can rupture. In essence you can compress the lower back and not compress the upper spine. Moe's lead knee flexed takes the pressure from his spine. If you have more info I would love to see it. Thanks.
I listen to the experts: "The quantitative information the 3D Technology measurements provides proves reduced movement of the spine from address to impact occurs in the Single Plane Golf Swing mechanics. Importantly, the comparison of pelvic lift and rotation between conventional and single plane golfers shows significant less spinal compression and shear and that translates to significantly less risk of lumbar injuries to single plane golfers.” Dr. Hyun Bae-- widely published researcher, orthopedic surgeon, and national leader in motion preservation technology, artificial disc replacement and non-fusion tech. quantitative information the 3D Technology measurements
@@ToddGravesGolf I could not find any scientific studies regarding Dr. Rashbaum and Single plane golf, or golf at all for that matter. He did mention torsional compression in one of his articles but did not site any source nor mention single plane golf or Moe Norman. Tour pros also have the lead knee bent at impact an average of 17 degrees and the straightening of the leg after impact is said to reduce the torsional shearing to the lower spine through impact. So you are writing about vertical compression, but still rotating through impact? It seems that it would be much more difficult to turn. through keeping the leading leg bent, with such a wide stance. Does that not put more stress on the lower spine? Please point to an scientific studies with peer review that you have access to. I have sent a few researchers questions regarding this as I find it quite interesting. Just need to make sure to not confuse opinion with peer reviewed science.
Todd. It seems that most of not all Single Plane teaching and theory is around the full swing . What , if any , adjustments should be made for the short game i.e. pitching and chipping. Thanks
Todd i have your book and have read it many times. The pictures you have that show the end of your backswing seem to indicate your hands are a little too behind. Is that the case? If it is, wouldn't that be a concern for getting stuck? I have been doing moe's swing for years and would get stuck alot because I thought that the way you showed taking the club back caused that result. I now keep my hands more in front of my body at the end of the backswing and hit the ball right on nose as moe would say. Am I on the right path?
To me, "in front of the body" is correct - meaning that it matches the torso rotation. In other words, your arms never get behind the torso rotation. So, YES, you are correct.
Hey Todd , great vids. I've always been a single plane golfer and also a Hogan fan , I'm trying to combine the two so really enjoyed this thanks. Just wondering on Moes distances? Could he hit it as far off the tee as the PGA pros? Surely if it was so simple there would be more pros doing it? I understand it's so much easier for us amatuers to learn .
I met Moe when he was 64 years old in 1994. I only measured his swing speed once and he was swinging 107mph. This equals the swing speeds of the Senior Tour today. I have interviewed dozens of professionals that played with Moe when he was younger - not one claimed he was a short hitter. With today's equipment, he could easily hit the ball as far as the PGA Tour players today. I don't think he would have been extreme (length) but I think he would have easily been in the Ricky Fowler Range.
@@ToddGravesGolf that's amazing with such an easy minimalist swing, nothing short about Rickie Fowler range. Thanks for all your vids, Moe was a real character and I've learned its ok to do things my own way :-)
There's a huge paradigm for pro golf to overcome, which is high hands at the top with club shaft parallel to the ground. Fortunately, there are some long hitters who are showing distance can be achieved with what is considered a "shorter" swing. Tony Finau comes to mind. More and more players are also setting up with the shaft and trail forearm in line viewed dtl. That is also a grip paradigm shift. It only makes sense to set up as close to impact position as possible, viewed both dtl and face on. It's going to take a fresh face to come out and demonstrate what _can_ be done with a simple, single plane swing.
Hey Todd, good video, I've been lurking on your channel for a while, and the question I have is one that, I bet you haven't been asked before. How do you breathe during the golf swing? Inhale on backswing, exhale on downswing, or hold your breath, or what? and how do you suppose Moe did that?
Might sound crazy but I have thought about this. I believe it was an exhale and then swing in between breaths. The reason I think this is because that is what works best for me (even though I don't think about it consciously now) but when I do exhibitions I am often talking quite a bit before I hit. This sometimes leaves me out of breath. I have to inhale, relax and then exhale, before I feel right to swing. Secondly, regarding Moe, he would often Hummmmmm between swings. When you hum it is an exhale.
I've watched videos where two different golf teachers, the ben hogan hand position and its different from what in your hogan book, the moe hand position is what they are calling the hogan, weird is this a mistake or dig hogan adapt to moes grip ?
Ben Hogan's book was first titled how I don't hook the ball ,so if you are a slicer, and you follow this book your most likely never going to get rid of your slice.
Easy big guy Hogan did things nobody has done and made it really easy. You gotta understand he used his knees and pelvis and not his hands and arms. Also why he won so much so quick and hit it better then Moe as he can move it anyway he wanted Moe couldn’t . Facts.
doesn't look very powerful considering how speed potential has been maximized today. Could this swing work as well but with full lead leg extension or some other more modern hip/leg dynamics? It just seems like a lot of potential swing speed is being left on the table
Sir_Godz if you’re going to make an argument, which is fair game, start including facts. “Doesn’t look powerful” isn’t an argument it’s an opinion which is why most golf instruction is ineffective.
Here you go. Roberto Lebrija - Single Plane with ball-speeds exceeding 190mph while PGA Tour average is 168mph. facebook.com/GravesGolf/videos/3089786217747722/
in his prime Moe was hitting 340 so around 300 average like other players back then. at 64 he was still hitting 270. if that has no power i don't what has...
He hooked because his right hand was strong .. he corrected it ... to neutral. Not as simple as that though because you can hook with a weak grip .... it all depends on face/path.
My instructor said that Hogan's book should be retitled "How to Slice a Golf Ball" by Ben Hogan. Moe's purity of technique is simpler for most golfers than Hogan's approach. Both are great players, Moe was a better striker.
Bien sûr. Nous avons une académie en ligne appelée l'académie à avion unique où les entraîneurs vous aident en ligne. members.singleplaneacademy.com/gold-start-here/. Faites-moi savoir si je peux vous aider.
Of course. We have an online academy called the single plane academy where coaches help you online. members.singleplaneacademy.com/gold-start-here/. Let me know if I can help.
Todd Graves merci beaucoup pour votre réponse, seulement j’ai un souci, je ne comprends pas l’Anglais. Je suis joueur autodidacte et je m’aperçois que j’avais quelques des similitudes avec le swing avec un seul plan. Passez une très agréable soirée. Amicalement
OK Todd, so why did Moe drop his head over 7 inches in his driver downswing move? Everyone wants to know the advantage and significance of this. Please advise us on this. Your personal swing does not include this element. Why not?
Lead Knee and pelvis move downward. In the downswing . Relieves compression of spine. I try to minimize this but as long as the lead knee is flexed you reduce compression.Furthermore I don’t look at head movement as much as I do spine position. Why? Because while the head is important it is independently moving and it’s movement doesn’t always represent spine movement.
Yeah, well, maybe not. I'm a fan of Moe, but to say that Hogan could have been a better ball-striker if only... that's a long bow to draw in my opinion. The Hawk hit a golf ball as purely as any man who ever lived, including the great Moe. And he did it under pressure. I wish there were footage of Moe playing entire rounds, or at least holes. The driving range and set-ups really aren't the same thing, as we all know. I'd like to know how he thought his way around a course, not just the mechanics of his swing.
@@iceman5994 I have. Moe's greatest attribute may not have contributed to his overall game. His ability to hit the ball straight was unquestioned. Could he shape the flight, according to circumstance? I don't know, but I wonder.
@@GreenDistantStar Ken Venturi on the rise as Hogan was in his mid 40s (in the late 1950s) was very close to Hogan (Read "The Match" featurung both) played with both. He gave the ball striking to Moe as Hogan was more of a one shot (low fade) versus Moe who would it straight and hit it low, high, draw or fade whenever. Competition: Moe won plenty (50+ Pro events longer than 2 days) but obviously lacked self confidence and was probably Autistic which makes management of life much harder. I think the side bend that Todd points out is extremely important. Maybe why Hogan hit it low and fought a hook? I know, this is blasphemous talk! I found way stronger, higher, more consistent ball striking and many more par and sub par competition rounds using Moe's method. Its much easier to come from behind the ball, slot the arms and repeat it with the flat feet anchors.
Yea there’s a lot of misconceptions of hogan and hogans swing theory’s in this video. Moe was a great driver of the ball but his swing very much limited his abilities with the scoring clubs.
Because Moe's swing is about supreme consistency over length even though Moe wasn't short. Today on Tour you can win PGA Tour events without consistency as long as you can hit it long and make putts. Narrow the fairways and you would see more pros looking like Moe. #narrowthefairways
BWG88 because tour pros became pros with the swing they have, they aren’t going to drastically change their swing when they’ve already had success with their own way. If you watch any of mos clinics he almost always says something along the lines that he wouldn’t teach anyone to swing like he does.
Hogans swing was better. Dont be fooled. 9 major championships. A legend in the game still. Possibly the best swing ever. Results are ultimate proof. I loved moe but he wasnt Hogan who he himself was in awe of.
Jackie. Burke said everyone should be who they are and not try to be hogan, if you are going to be someone else, why not be Nicklas he won more then Hogan or Billy casper he won over 50 tournaments.
I just want to add one thing... there is one big reason why this swing works so well. I dare say its golf magic move and EVERY great player does it. Hogan did it a lot.. Trevino the most...and Moe. Nicklaus did it. Actually it's the ONLY thing that basically EVERY great player did...no exceptions. It's been mentioned but not nearly enough. I've always noticed it but not since doing this swing have I felt it and understood it. Feel free to guess what it is!
It's not about who is better or who won the most tournaments. It really about finding and developing your own swing. You have to grabe what's useful for you and disregard what's not useful. Keep in mind that what may be good for you may not be good for someone else and vise versa. We all have different types of bodies and what may work for someone may not work for another. I teach martial arts, now I'm I going to show a heavy guy to kick high or show him how to kick low. Bold title to say something about a person who is dead and cant talk for him self. That's just like me to say hay Moe could have benefited from Hogan. Just nonsense. Let's not bash eachother, obviously Moe never bashed Hogan when Hogan was a live. Let's keep it that way.
You seem a bit full of yourself dude. Hogan swings was considered once of the best swings ever! Swing you swing. I’ll keep learning from his book and stick to the classic swing!
Or you could just try the improvement suggestions provided for that swing. They make a lot of sense. Hogans swing was indeed classic, but like everything it could perhaps be improved upon. It sounds like you are unwilling to try a slightly different motion because of the name Hogan instead of keeping up with the times.
You mentioned Moe saying Ben and him were equally good. You later say that Ben could have been better using Moe's single plane. It's contradictory to say the least. I believe Ben's swing is equally simple and repeatable. We just don't know how he did it. The only real difference between the two methods is that one was willing to teach their swing.
Sounds like blasphemy ...however, Moe's swing is a more simple move. Unless you have the time and inclination to hit 500 balls a day, everyday, then Moe's single plane swing deserves a look....IMHO
Ben Hogan's "Five Lessons" book is the autobiography of a man trying to fight a hook. If you're a high handicap golfer who slices the ball Hogan's book is not for you.
Actually, quite the contrary. The address is actually the Natural way to hit something on the ground with a stick. The problem is that the conventional setup is actually unnatural but we have all agreed that it is correct.
@@ToddGravesGolf Do we want to make the ball our target? I think it is quite natural to have loose arms at address pos. And yes, this swing can work for a lot of people. People who are not so athletic maybe...
@@KINGKURT14 At address you are creating a spatial distance from the ball that makes it easy to swing through. You are swinging through the ball. The Single Plane swing is simply making it easier to swing through impact without compensation. It's all about the proper space from the ball.
Spine tilt: 20 deg. at address and 25 deg. at impact. Is the extra 5 deg. needed to allow for hip and torso movement into impact? Would starting at 25 deg. result in 30 deg. at impact which would be too much?
Has it ever occurred to you that you might be wrong? Like I guess you would want a batter in baseball to start with the bat out over home plate. Like there's so many sports where you start somewhere and end completely different. And maybe moe would've been better if he started with the club up against the ball. He did miss hit shots, and then he just pretends he didn't. Like to say YOU could've made Ben Hogan better???......... like so you realize the statement you just made? And he over complicated squaring the face? I guess Colin Morikawa is too. I guess Tony Finau and Jon Rahm are too..... like they're literally the best in the world and also ball striking circles around you. Just because you think that they're making all these "compensations" doesn't mean that is correct. They're just doing something that didn't click for you when you were younger and struggling. But I guess you could make Tony Finau hit it better. That's just so ridiculous.
I continue to concentrate on hand motion throughout the swing, and its critical position at impact, or its collorary relationship to the face of the club. The beauty of repetition with hand position being your sole focus, is the essence of good golf. So, the single plane is masterful in achieving simplicity and consistency and stress free golf; for the love of a squirrel burying a nut. Thank you todd, quite insightful in everything.
This is total fluff. The theory that additional movement in the swing from setup to impact makes it less repeatable and therefore more efficient has no basis. More movement in space can help generate power as well which was certainly a limitation with Moe. If Moe’s swing was so superior, more people (or anyone who is anyone) would swing like him. I wonder if this author would secretly kill to swing just like Hogan.
Bryson looks nothing like moe through the ball whereas the modern swing is based largely off hogan and for good reason. Moe’s specific type of “pure” single plane swing is clearly a fringe thing. Single plane doesn’t mean simpler, more efficient or scientifically superior as you claim. If it were so natural and superior, all the greats throughout time would have swung like that.
people don't use it because they find it ugly to look at. and people don't want to look ugly. but the fact is, it's the most efficient and many PGA players were totally baffled by Moe's swing. not to say jalous. but just because it's ugly, people pull the handbrake on it. this is what i call "aesthetic elitism". and it has no place in Golf as the main important thing is EFFICIENCY/ACCURACY. enjoy being an elitist asshole.
Todd Graves I just wonder what Hogan’s career would’ve been like had he never been in that near fatal wreck... Also the the pane of glass is a good example to me. Similar mechanics. Heard that story about Palmer watching Hogan.
