EVERY MELEE PLAYER NEEDS TO HEAR THIS 

12:00 "how many layers of mind games are you on?" "like,, maybe 5, or 6 right now. my dude" "you are like a little baby, watch this" *walk up dsmash*

I can’t explain how interesting it is to hear someone who understands Melee explain the subtlety of specific situations. I could listen to hours of you breaking down specific kinds of counterplay in the melee meta game. That’s the kind of content that really helps new players learn how to think about melee

the cursed sword RPS is such a perfect analogy for the insanity of melee microsituations

Just some extra info for the uninitiated: Nuki is one of the five gods of Japanese fighting games, along with Daigo, Tokido, Haitani and Sako, he's a legend and very strong in every game he puts time into. Also wanted to boost the algorithm, good shit Toph!

3S and Melee in the same video? Now you're speaking my language

As a new player who hated L-cancelling and used it as an excuse to not play melee for years, I now see it as like, going Kaioken. Your combos are faster, but it's not super easy to do (consistently at least) and it strains your body (or finger lol). Then adding wave dashing/landing to the mix is like going Super Saiyan, cuz now you're moving so fucking fast that it almost looks like you're teleporting. Looking at it that way makes you like it as a new player.

I've had this idea for making an "EX rock paper scissors " card game with life points and EX versions of each option that adds a fighting game-esque mind game layer

Toph is really killing it with his RU-vid, it’s so incredible to see all of the content that he’s just pushing out for our enjoyment. We love you Toph, please keep doing what you’re doing!!! 🖤🤘🏻

I like that there's lots of counterplay even in disadvantage in Melee. Because think about it -- you are in a way always playing neutral. Even when you have your opponent on the ledge, each of you still have to be anticipating what each other is gonna do. That fluidity is part of what makes Melee so endlessly deep. 20 years in and people are still doing new stuff.

More of these types of talks it’s fascinating

fuckin LOVE these kinds of videos. melee theory, depth and psychology is so interesting. keep em coming

Melee and 3rd Strike are like manual transmission vehicles in America. Only a few people like the complexity, but those intricacies let them do really cool stuff (Wheelies, Drifing, etc.)

‘cursed sword’ addition was on point regarding weighing out the risk/reward of neutral ! The vanilla Rps anology always felt like a limited why to describe it. Also, although some think otherwise I def love the physicality layer of fighting games, since with experience you can deduce what a person will go for or not. And ofc there is always that pro gamer feeling of landing hard tech xd

I got into melee wayy before I started playing fgs and after playing ultimate recently I thought it had the same sort of mind games but with an insane level of execution on top. I was wrong as hell, this game is so deep.

I honestly really love FG comparisons to Melee. I don't care much about "that" specific arguement, but FG fundamentals STILL apply in Melee. For real though, Melee and FGC are one of my favorite crossovers next to Marvel vs Capcom.

Toph your content has been so great! Thanks for putting out videos!

i just started practicing 3s again like a week ago. love that game!! evo moment 37 is the reason i started playing fighting games and long story short how i ended up being a melee player

Loved the video Toph, keep it up. Almost lost me a bit with some of the street fighter jargon but I'm glad I stuck around.

sick content toph :)

i thought this was fgctranslated when i clicked daigo face

lets go toph! this is quality content. really bridging the gap between smash and fighting games. I honestly think smash IS a straight-up fighting game and you talking about it like this really highlights that.

when you get so deep into a setup that you ruin someone with the "no mixup, mixup"

Damn thanks for making a reaction to that video, ive seen it before but i didnt quite understand all of it, so im pretty sure you reacting to it will help me understand it way better. Good content Toph you have my subscription!!

I love how you are able to speak about a topic like this from both a traditional fighting game perspective, and melee perspective. Awesome talk. Also, FGC Translated is too strong.

Love this video, excellent analysis!

This can be applied to teching on platforms, no tech slide off, no tech asdi//slide off move you get hit by, no tech amsa tech, tech slide off edge. And there’s just as much counter play whe you hit someone on a plat

Really great vid Toph!

The whole “mechanic knowledge” issue is a huge problem in fighting games even in 2021. I’ve met Smash players who played every game since N64 and they didn’t know how to b reverse or turnaround special.

Love the vid and hyped for that teaching vid

Cursed Sword analogy is big brain as hell. More content like this would be amazing.

This is 10/10 content, thank you TOPH!

My favorite video of yours so far!

Toph is on so many levels of mind games that he’s playing siivagunner music in his videos lol

Leaving comment for the algorithm. Sick content, Toph!

This is the reason I love melee so much as a spectator. The option select and mix ups are insane at high level.

Commenting for the algorithm Good shit, Toph!

Wow, i can’t believe toph got THE fighting game god on a video with him, toph is the KONTENT KING

Great video Toph!

Beautifully put toph

Man almost all of Rumble Fighter is like this. I love it, good video.

3rd strike, melee, and toph are all sick

Yoooo let's go daigo. I love sf x ssbm crossovers

Great frickin vidoe, dude.

Love the fly me to the moon cover in the beginning

Dude, I really can't describe how much I like to listen to talks where people verbalize the magic of melee, and I think this is the best one I've heard so far. And I'm not a doc kid either, so you know I've already heard a bunch of stuff about this :P (even though doc kids themselves aren't to be called the new ones at all anymore at this point. At least first gen doc kids, they really doc teens)

My friends don’t really wanna put a lot of effort into melee (learn l-cancels, wavedashing, etc) but I think they would really like the mixups and the mind games because that’s what where the fun comes from and why so many of us fall in love with melee.

Random gg for your new team Toph

Melee is nuts. Why we all love it. Cause we understand things that others don’t and you can pick apart every single interaction

I really enjoy this type of content

best video on your channnel so far, by far!

Very interesting points Toph, still sad you haven't mastered Earth Bending though..

Yoo toph can u make a series of videos of the top players and what makes them great , maybe with weaknesses ? Would love too see stuff like that ✌

As someone who's played this game as well as melee and much harder multiplayer games like Armored Core. I can understand this concept. There are deeper levels of strategic and tactical game play a "meta" if you will to any competitive scenario. Esports and otherwise. And if you do not understand the foundation of that meta (brawl mechanics/meta knight) or the building blocks surrounding why the meta was created (20XX) you will always lose. I distinctly remember playing Armored Core and I used to always best my friends. And for the first time I played another person who didn't take a single hit and dodged every single one of my attacks. He taught me a simple mechanic in the game and it completely changed my perspective and playstyle

Commenting for algorithmic reasons. Thanks Toph!

Yo Toph your content has been so good these past months! Keep it up man :D You've visited the Japanese smash scene a few times right? Are there differences on how they view the game over there as far as you know? The FGC translated channel got me interested since we rarely see or hear about stuff like that from top players from Japan besides from aMSa. Thanks for the content!

Way to break things down toph

Gotta love a good option select

Sick video

Is that fly me to the moon as elevator music in the background

I love that nge outro song

I agree with the overall point, but I don't like ledgedashing in particular. It's too polar: You either SD, or you get a guaranteed return to neutral. On the other hand, L-canceling works really well, because the difference between hitting and missing is a few frames of advantage, and create interesting interactions like moving your shield to try to make the opponent miss their L-cancel.

another thing about sf3.3 is makoto when you carry her into the corner so you win the neutral and get stage contorl so you should be at an advantage but in reality if makoto as the wall too close to her back she can command grab into super into dizzy combo (on a lot of character) and you will take huge damage complement this with the fact that she have super quick dash and can command grab you after an hayate, but you can jump, but they can anti air, but they can parry etc etc....so she got good tools to land this throw so even if she is cornered she still is a big threat but you can avoid it if you watch out for the makoto's player pattern that's like a small piece of what third strike is

Damn, the okami ost remix deep cut

checked into the toph video, I can confirm this man has yet to put out a bad piece of content. W

Good job Chris

love it when FGC and Melee community can come together. i feel like both scenes have grown a lot from the old days of bashing each other.

That intro song got me good

Evil Toph be like: Daigo doesn’t get Melee. You win.

after one month imo, melee is just like legacy or vintage mtg. permutations, flowcharts, predicts, plus hand eye coordination, and muscle control/endurance. It's a pretty solid game and I just learned that watching tourneys and non stop eggsercising with falcon. If you're playing this game after a month you either identified this complexity or you're not eggsercising daily lol.

Toph! Who do you play in 3rd strike? Also great reference material

4:34 This happened to me before I knew the wall tech OS in SSBU. Know that I know, I can call out and punish the Up-B.

Which extension for youtube loop?

Great title

Popping off

Lord Diego Umsuarez.

the block-jump OS seems similar to invincible ledge dashing

was the siiva rip intentional at the beginning

this is CONTENT

Hey is your name a reference to the character from Avatar the last airbender? Or is it a nickname for Topher Grace, the actor that played Eric on that 70's show? 🤔

helping out the algorithm

Toph do you play 3rd strike? That’s awesome that’s my (other) favorite fighting game, definitely bette at it than melee haha

L-Canceling is so interesting to me in how it's essentially Melee's Counterhit functionality from 2D fighters. If Fox L-Cancels early into his Nair against Falco, it's very easy to land the L-Cancel. However if Falco manages to hit Fox with a knockdown during this part of the exchange, now Fox is locked out of teching and Falco can nail a nasty combo back. L-Canceling is my favorite part of Melee and I wish other platform fighters would bring that kind of depth back.

Daigo: yeah I don’t like this game Also Daigo: created the most legendary moment in fgc history

Yo toph we love u

What you said about assessing your skill level for an execution moment - I feel it applies to shooters like overwatch a lot. Some characters have tons of high risk - high reward plays that depend on the player's aim skill in order to be a reasonable option at all.

MELEE IS HYPEEEEE

Oh, so you're just assuming "Daigo gets melee." Okay.

yogi of melee

One obviously strong character which dominates the metagame (Chun-Li and Fox), unique mechanics that confuse outsides/new players, a dedicated fanbase... yep.

Really cool hearing you explain this, it's crazy how clearly you manage to express ideas I find it pretty sad people could not like situation depth though well I'm not sure whether they don't like depth, or volatility I can understand not wanting to earn 3 +- 7 from a won interaction instead of 3 +- 1 because it makes them getting the initial hit feel less important (if you think like this, play Peach, not spacies) but I can't understand not wanting depth if you're going to invest multiples thousand hours in a game, isn't it hard for a game with no depth to be enjoyable ? I mean... RPS is unironically boring =/ Also I think what truly makes it interesting, perhaps more than the micro-situation complexity, is the disagreement between players regarding what the mixup *is* like, if we both have 20 options, I imagine a 20x20 table with how good the resulting situations are in each case (basically resulting probability of winning the game according to us, if I attempt the option in a given row and they attempt the option in a given column) for RPS it'd just be a 3x3 table, 0/-1/1; 1/0/-1; -1/1/0 well there's a distribution among these 20 options I can choose so I don't have to care about the other guy's option like, if I want to have the same game win expectancy regardless of what they take in that scenario, it's 20 equations, 20 unknown you've made your choice, and I'm rolling a dice in my head (assuming I can do that) that tells me what option to do, with the probabilities as I've obtained them from solving that system and even the most complex game eventually becomes boring if we agree on the value of everything and just end up picking our options randomly in proportion of how often they should be picked But that's where all the fun comes from: we don't agree on the values in the cells heck we're not even sure the opponent knows of every column because that would mean that we agree on how bad it is for you to be offstage, to be in knockdown, to be in the air, that we agree on what's the probability of you messing up given techniques, and that would also mean that we're thinking perfectly rationally in trying to win, when we certainly don't - we will value not looking like a dummy that gets hit twice by the same thing even though it's still an option in the mixup, or will really care about getting to show off one given thing we've practiced, some will overvalue cool options to be cool (also being perceived as cool can be valuable), some will instead undervalue them to be able to look back at their lame play and appreciate it because they perceive it as a commitment to a win-focused mindset And from the disagreement between our table and their table, we get the option we should do - assuming you're correct, any difference with your beliefs is a underefficiency for you to win on. And be it locally to a game or in general as a player, we update our tables based on new experiences If a game was merely complicated it'd be a matter of time before we figure it out, but complexity combined with being human is how we get to different conclusions, and disagreement dictates what we should do in a match, and that's how a game is interesting And so far for this purpose, no game is more interesting than Melee with its crazy engine depth, technical requirements and analog controls, at least to me =D

Fgc translated is my savior

5:50 for all my dbfz homies that have to play against UI Goku

Algorythm booster pack

Melee is fucking sick

Just wait til Toph hears about @armadareacts on twitter...

epic

Hey if you guys wanna play third strike online but don’t own a pc for fightcade Street fighter 30th anniversary is on all consoles and the 3S community is strong in ps4 and Xbox, I haven’t played switch tho

Playing MBTL and this sounds familiar...

god third strike rules

Commenting for the algorithm