I’ve never seen a comment section with so many long essay responses, from both people agreeing and disagreeing Think that’s just a really good sign that this whole series is so layered and complex, and that your analysis equally so. Can’t wait to see what you do next James! You’re one of my favorite RU-vidr essay-ists
@@Matty002I meant that the fact that so many feel prompted to think about it critically and can have so many different takes on the same piece is an indicator to how rich the content is
I can't speak for others, but the fact that this is such a bold departure from the original source material, and that just getting to see the characters I like being (generally speaking) the characters I like, any flaws it may possess are far more forgivable than if it were a mediocre or even just ok straightforward adaptation. Not to mention you should take into account context, we're in a world right now that is drowning in weak corporate remakes with no soul. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off may have flaws, but you'll never convince me it didn't shoot for the moon, and if you ask me, it landed among the stars
@@hgmd3284I mean, as someone who absolutely adores Persona, I wouldn't say P3 Reload is the most ambitious remake ever. It's a great game for sure, but it definitely plays it straight as a mostly direct adaptation of the original P3, which is kinda what the main commenter was applauding Scott Takes Off for avoiding.
I feel like this entire video...ALMOST makes points? But at the same time, it just feels like instead of engaging with what the show IS, it gets stuck in what it isn't. I dunno if it's self-aware or just ironic that you framed yourself as future Scott here, but you built up this level of expectation and the second the show started departing from that, you got so stuck in it that you let it ruin your own experience. I don't think it's INVALID to dislike it, I just think that none of the things you listed were that important from my perspective. A lot of them are some of the reasons I LIKE the show. Scott Pilgrim was always a bit of a medium-bender, with the movie setting a standard for how to present a movie that feels like a comic book. The anime is the same. Yeah sometimes the voice lines come out feeling weird and don't quite mesh perfectly with the visuals...because it's an anime. It LOOKS like a dubbed-over anime. Usually smooth, but occasionally at moments of the most animated emotions de-syncing a little. I LOVE that about it. It feels purposeful. I'm pretty sure it WAS purposeful. With Ramona, I thought it was obvious why she got so obsessed with finding Scott. All of her other relationships ended on her terms. They let her determine her own closure by effectively ignoring that closure. Since she wasn't able to do that with Scott, she was thrown off her pattern. She had one good date and then the relationship was taken from her, and once SHE was the one experiencing loss in a relationship rather than her ex, it forced her into a new perspective, specifically THEIR perspective. That gets mirrored in Gideon being smacked low and needing to change his priorities and get a personality makeover, even if he comes out the other end still evil. Honestly, I think the only thing needed to fix the majority of the issues you (and most people, for that matter) had would be a second season. Letting Gideon be some kind of threat, expanding on the rest of the cast, getting Steven his goddamn boyfriend, actually...DEALING with Scott's exes. Envy. LISA. Anyway, this comment is way too long. The tl;dr is: I get it, but I don't agree with the conclusion or even, to a certain extent, the method of criticism at play here. It just doesn't feel compelling. In a show that's still shafting Envy and Lisa after a movie which does the same, Steven not being "extremely serious" doesn't move me much.
Had the same thoughts skimming through the video. Very passionate opinion on the show supported on very flimsy bases. I was also left wondering if the framing himself as future self was self-aware or not lol
@AbyssalRook i'd say the "being forced into the abandonment you push onto others" thing is also true of todd and it's why i liked his portrayal and more importantly felt like wallace's portrayal fleshed himself out wallace finding REAL gay love is shattering an entire facade he put up so hard he literally played himself as a character in a movie
I think he just put his expectations far too high and got on the hype train just to get let down when it wasn't perfect. He's taking Scott Pilgrim too seriously, its a silly comic with vegan super powers and video game logic. IM A SCOTT PILGRIM FAN and the comic was what motivated me to move to Toronto. But I don't take it seriously.
@@maggiehatton6881I didn't get that vibe from the video, exactly. I know a lot of people who didn't like it might feel that way, but in this case it feels more like he found something that didn't jive with what he remembered and it jammed itself in his entertainment center and wiggled around til it stopped working. I think people look at Scott Pilgrim in a really sensible way: That the movie is an adaptation of the comics, and that the anime would be ANOTHER adaptation of the comics. But not only is the anime not that, the MOVIE wasn't, either. The movie was finished well before the sixth book came out. It was first shown literally a WEEK after the 6th book hit shelves, and hit wide release theaters in the US a little over 2 weeks after that. This is because the movie was written somewhere between the release of the second and third book and conceived after only the first was published. Looking at different Scott Pilgrim properties as adaptations of each other lessens their individual value, in part because it's just...not accurate.
I remember having the same reaction towards the final band practice scene of ‘’but wait, nothing’s changed?’’ because I have always felt that the magic of the comics was in how it depicted the awkward transition from teenagehood to adulthood in a way that resonated authentically; with ALL of the characters changing and maturing in ways that feel real (all while Scott is slowly left behind due to his subconscious refusal to mature (the actual main conflict of the entire story!!!)) All that to say, I am answering your call to let you know in the comments that I noticed too. I don’t HATE the anime, just as I don’t HATE the movie even though, for me, a lot of the magic of the comics is lost in translation there too. But I get what you’re saying and I was similarly disappointed
I really enjoyed the show, and thinking back on it, i think i enjoyed it as a deconstruction of ramona, and the story of scott Pilgrim itself. As a fan of the comics im DEEPLY sad the fun gay Steven Stills stuff got cut, but i also recognize that, while Scott's arc in the show is very similar to his arc in the comics "fighting against who youre afraid of becoming" at the end and such, putting the agency on ramona to stop running from her problems, and to actually try and solve something is really healthy for her. I also actually ENJOY the fact that the resolution at the end of the comics is the total opposite than the end of the show. To quote CJ the X's sibling: "in a story, you either end where you began, or somewhere else." The original comics ended somewhere else, the characters have been through so much they're irreparably changed by their journey, theyve grown. In the animation, the characters are fighting less for change, and more for a clean slate, a new beginning. Ramona and Scott finally get to be together and move forward as a team, after Ramona made the conscious decision to stop flaking out all the time. I really appreciate that personally. Admittedly i do think sparks are very silly as a motivation though, as someone who's poly, youre not like, destined to be with people, you surround yourself with those you love, whether romantically or otherwise
Now this I can kinda get behind. But yeah, I don't get the reference, so much like one of the Game Grumps when reading ClickHole's Quizzes, I wasn't getting it, and just got frustrated.
I cant believe this video only has 10K views, its one of my favorite videos in the last months. What fascinates me is that to me the Film and the Series are both just goofing arround while it seems like the comics actually goes deep on human emotions. The band coming back together in the end of the series, having gone barely anywhere while in the comic the band is no more and we actually have change seems like we missed out on something
Thank fucking god someone feels the way I did about the anime. I felt like a crazy person seeing the way that my friends and tumblr mutuals were reacting to it. I can see that a lot of people disagree with you - us - in the comments here, but you were spot on in the point about the adaptation having no stakes and nothing to say, in my opinion. It really is a lot like Marvel's What If - a reimagining for the sake of reimagining - except the reimagining makes no sense because it's like all of the characters already remember who they were or at least what the cultural zeitgeist remembers them as
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 It's also called shut up. But for real, I get it, I have no horse in this race, I genuinely couldn't give less of a shit about Scoot, so fire away, but like sheesh. Fella out there just wants validation for their opinion. No need to rub that yeah, consensus says you suck.
I don't think anyone is going to remember the anime in like 2 years, I was watching the video and didn't remember anything, even if I liked it or not, I went to check on my note and I trashed it, pretty much all the points the video make I felt the same way, but what surprises me is not that everybody liked it, is that I didn't even notice (though in my notes says something like, "everybody around me is loving it, people I even respect". but I can't remember who they were, everything about the series is so forgettable and that's most of tv, people love it because people love tv but I love good tv and I like to revisit something I loved, and this is not something I will ever revisit.
i definitely understand where you’re coming from here. i’ve only ever seen the movie (but based on your videos i’m definitely going to change that) so i didn’t expect the anime to leave me with any emotional reaction. i enjoyed the anime because i thought it was cute and funny and it was cool that the cast of the movie came back, but if i had been expecting something emotionally impactful, i’m sure i would have felt the same way you do. thanks for deciding to make a video about this! i know most people online get mad when someone dislikes something everybody likes, but i think it’s valuable to share as many opinions and perspectives as possible. so thanks :)
I felt the exact same way when Takes Off came out, while I enjoyed it I was kind of sad that I didn't end up loving it like I hoped I would. And it felt like everyone I talked to about it rather loved it or didn't have the same issues that I did/the issues I had didn't bother them as much. I grown up watching the movie a million times and the year prior to Takes Off ended up reading and loving the books, and the reception towards Takes Off reminded me of when I first played Persona 5 and felt bad that everybody else loved this one product except me.
THANK YOU for making this video, I watched your video about the original Scott pilgrim film adaptation and really really liked it, made me wanna reread the comics. When I watched the anime, I really liked it! I was excited about the plot twist, realizing it would be NEW and explore new angles. I enjoyed it, I got to the end and was very excited! Seeing people talk about Scott pilgrim online when I had sort of missed that buzz reading the comics as a kid made me really happy! But… yeah, the anime never actually delivered on what it was trying to do, I remember getting to the end and feeling like… oh. I guess that’s it. And I was really concerned that a lot of my friends watching hadn’t even seen the movie at least. It almost feels like it took a whole show just to tell us what Ramona’s original arc in the comics was. It’s like, it was fun! It was really beautifully animated, it was really funny, but at the end of the day I still prefer the comics, it was like… more empty calories.
I think what I’m getting at is that it really feels like the anime is more of a continuation of the movie than of the comics, and as someone who loves the comics it’s just like. Yeah. This is good but isn’t quite right.
Watching this gave me a bit of pause because I think it helped clicked in my head why the anime felt empty to me. I didn't dislike it, but when the credits rolled on the last episode I at most felt entertained and at worst frustrated that where it ends up doesn't feel earned. The anime then prompted me to completely read the comics for the first time after several failed attempts over the years (I'm awful at finishing things) and I was struck by how rich it was. Aside from a couple of the exes, everyone is rounded out with history and personality and realistically grow. While the anime gives us *more* time with some of those characters who didn't get much before, it was more interested in inventing wacky meta-adventures. Which as you described, is what I remember Scott Pilgrim for (particularly since my primary experience it with is the film) and now I feel as though my memory did me a disservice. Maybe that's what the anime's strength is: a pop-corn entertainment companion piece that makes you want to revisit the source material. From all of the interviews with O'Malley and co, I doubt that was really the intention but it re-ignited my interest and appreciation for this series in a roundabout way. And your two videos have been superb examinations in their own right.
Thank you for sharing your story! It's really interesting how different qualities of the same story can relate to different people My own story with the Pilgrim series is *drastically* different from yours: I started with the comics, but I didn't even finish the first Book - I was never interested in romance (especially back when I was a teenager), and I couldn't find anyone in the cast appealing enough for me personally to continue reading; I struggled through it as much as I could, but I still just dropped it So, I gave the Book to my friend - and I was *really* surprised, when he mentioned how amazing the fight was in the end - as it turned out, I was just like 5 pages short from the Matthew appearance (yes, I was that bored with the Book, that I dropped it near the end, not being bothered to read the last 20 pages or so) I was intrigued enough by my friend's enthusiasm, so I decided to watch the movie - and I actually liked it a lot! I liked how fast-paced it was, I liked the jokes and CGI; it was just a pretty good comedy for me! Also, this was quite a rarity for me, because generally I prefer drawn media over live-action I would say that Pilgrim's movie is still one of my favorite movies, and over the years I rewatched it around 10 times already, I think So, after that I returned to the comic - and, well... I still didn't liked it. I still didn't really care about anyone, it felt too artificially stretched, and most of the time I was still bored I liked basically every change that the movie did, as for me it trimmed the fat and reduced the story to the only enjoyable (funny) bits So, when the anime was announced, I was quite cautious - I hoped that this adaptation would be closer to the movie than to the original comic (so I was *really* happy to see Edgar Wright in the crew again) And, well, after seeing the final result - now this anime is my favorite part of the Pilgrim's franchise! It's everything I liked about the movie, multiplied by 100! And the episodes about making a movie about the Scott's life are my favorites😅 Obviously I also have my own share of criticism, but I can just not to think about them while watching, because of the amount of pure fun and enjoyment this anime gives me; I just really enjoy this type of humor and fast-paced action, that combination of Bryan Lee O'Malley and Edgar Wright provides Also, I *really* like Seconds! I *much* prefer the overall setting, the vibes, the main character, the supernatural elements and how they are used for character/plot development in this story... Basically, where Scott failed for me emotionally, Seconds absolutely succeeded My problem with the Scott's comic is mostly the cast, I just can't connect with them as characters - so I genuinely do prefer them being just hollow husks for the comedy sake I hope you'll find more stories like the original comic - but for me, I'm glad that the adaptations are the way that they are😅
Naw this is exactly how i felt, i end up feeling like im goin full keyboard warrior when i argue about this with people who like the anime. Now, i have all the comics, and i collected them when i was basically in high school and then the movie came out years later. then this anime came out and everyone was singing its praises and i just couldnt agree more with so much here
I think ultimately you're right in that it's a much shallower exploration of these characters than the comics, and there's certainly a lot of flanderization at play, I think it's still a much better showing than the movie, and is playing more with the expectations set by that than that of the comics. I still enjoyed it as its own thing. More of a fun romp than a deep character exploration, but I honestly never expected this to ever happen so I'm just happy with what we got. (Also I think part of my defense for this anime is all the brain worm infested conservatives complaining that it's woke)
Great video as usual! Nothing will eclipse the comics for me either. However, despite all the flaws you went over, I still really liked the anime as its own thing! However, it can't stand on its own without the original, which I think says a lot about how much we DO value the comics! I have friends who watched the anime first and were totally confused and disappointed.
i made the decision to watch it in Japanese precisely BECAUSE of the issues you brought up, but i identified those issues in the trailer, and made the decision from day one. So my entire experience of the story was through the dub. No switching mid-way or anything.
@@CherryDad 'flat, missing oomph, not all that bad, some standouts, vibes are off' Is all he really says about the dub, so you saying 'oh yes I picked up on those problems from the trailer alone and watched it in my non native language and I could tell, despite not being a native speaker that the Japanese cast were much better than the English performance that I've never even watched' is one of the stupidest takes I've ever seen. And then you go and add to that by being condescending to someone who is simply asking for examples of what you're talking about.
Haven't watched the video so he probably say this. But It's because the Japanese version has actual voice actors. Pretty famous VA casting. The English version has a lot of actors reprising their roles. Being a good on-screen actor doesn't translate to voice acting.
Funny how "Manic Pixie Dream Girl," "Mary Sue" and the Bechtel test have all been bastardized at this point. Not sure how much of that is because of sexism and how much is due to the understanding of definitions erodes over time.
I'm not a big fan of the original or the movie, but I did decide to watch this partially because of your awesome first video (love ur essays!) and partially because the animation is so, so gorgeous and I love me some animation. "Everyone is just goofing around" is exactly the vibe I got. I kept waiting to get hooked into a plot or emotional arc or character development... nothing. Just goofing around. I figured: well, it makes sense the FANDOM like this. I too adore watching my blorbos just goofing around. But if you don't have a prior point of entry... there is nothing being developed here to hook you.
Finally someone gets it. I'm glad someone else sees the comic the way I do. Perhaps this is because I read it recently without childhood ties. but I'm glad you expressed it.
16:44 “it’s like the whole thing was just played for laughs” - to which I replied aloud “uhhh, well yeah.” And I guess that’s the disconnect. I didn’t experience the comics, only the movie, and didn’t particularly feel like I connected with it. But I had a BLAST when the show came out. Loved the first ep, was feeling meh come the second ep when I realized I wouldn’t be experiencing Scott’s story, and then back to fun when I started having a blast with Ramona and Co. (Agreed, her time spent with Roxie was by far the highlight.) While I too felt like they could’ve pushed harder on character dissection, particularly among Ramona and her relationships with the exes, I suppose not reading the comics allowed me to enjoy the tone and presentation a lot more. I was in it for the characters vibing with each other, the stylized fights, the surreal scenarios, and a lot of the comes from innocent nonsensicality. Like, you took issue with characters appearing on Young Neil’s set for no clear motive meanwhile that sparked joy in me, to me that’s a natural function of the world. Whimsical coincidence isn’t for every show but it feels right here. But I completely get being attached to a property and knowing its potential to convey complex issues, on top of having expectations of who each and every character is, and therefore being disappointed by a world that plays things a little looser. Especially when the critics call it a more detailed examination. But as someone who had a blast with the show, I do hold firm that there’s a ton to enjoy when there’s not a comparison-point overshadowing everything, as well as people gaslighting you into thinking that comparison-point was lesser-than. Just a different experience. Apologies on adding to the essay collection, that wasn’t my intention when starting this comment haha. Great video, best wishes!
Loved the Roxy episode, after that I was totally onboard. Then like two episodes later we stopped watching. Exploring facing bad breakups and trying to heal/tend to old infected scars through a comic book anime lens seemed like a perfect episodic setup. Didn't have the energy to dig into why it all it was so off, but I'm glad to hear your take. I feel you!!! I have read Seconds and the teenage angst book (both are great!!!), and was a lil unsure about the scott pilgrim comics, but after your video I want to give them a shot as well. My partner really liked them when they read them as a teenager and to be honest they have really really great taste and I want to explore their recommendations more. Thank you! Also your framing device works really well to communicate your emotional journey with coming to terms with how to make this video in spite of having such a discrepance to your peers in emotional reading of the text (hope that makes sense-ish, I'm really tired and have to go to sleep) Hugs!
So like with most things I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle. I do agree that many of the changes you point out do exist, but I don't agree that they are a problem. Or more correctly, they are a problem that can be avoided without asking for double the production budget. I'll try to stick to the main items or I'll be here forever. Ramona's Plot/Growth -- Future Scott's use of time travel doesn't matter as much as Future Ramona's equal use of time travel. Rather than confront her husband (they were separated, not divorced yet, because Scott is bad at being honest) she sent a book back in time as a movie script to trick her husband into meeting her again. Which is topical to the change Present Ramona needs to make about running away from the things she loves. And in turn confronting her past (that is relevant) gives her the tools needed to make this change. Matthew, Todd, and Gideon don't matter, because Ramona didn't actually leave them. Not the way she left Lucas or Roxie, which is why those two got the most focus. While she didn't confront the Twins at all, explaining her past with them to the others let her confront Knives, which gives her the same overall information of how that behavior she had was- well, bad. Which is what all three of those beats are for: giving Ramona a better understanding of who she needs to be, and what she needs to avoid, to find happiness. The Secondary Cast -- Much like the movie, the runtime of the series isn't long enough to really give the full depth of any one character. And the best characters in the anime are the two blending elements from their book and film characterization together (Lucas and Roxie). Book Lucas (kind of a sellout but otherwise decent person) turned into Movie Lucas (asshole who pretends he cares about nothing) because his first girlfriend left him the moment a hot vegan came around added something there. And you went over how Roxie actually is a very workable call. Matthew finding the confidence to seek out his dreams because he wasn't a jobber is as interesting as you can really do with a character as flat as Matthew is (he's all style no substance book and film). This extends to most of the secondary cast. So they're flatter, but the space simply isn't there to fully dive into any one character, and if you focus on any one of them you'll have to further remove from the others. I'd say the biggest loser in this is probably Wallace of all characters, who got made into a complete asshole losing all signs he's ever liked Scott (except in silver fox Future Wallace's scenes) and only his worst traits. Stephen Stills was only in situations where he'd freak out, so we didn't get to see that other side of him (again, if there were more scenes we could have more sides to him show up). Although I don't know how fair it is to expect Joseph stuff when my best estimate of the show's timeline is roughly a few months, while Joseph isn't introduced till half a year of story happened. (The timeline is nebulous and I'm going with the Ramona's hair changing every few weeks rather than the jokes most people make of her ruining her hair with daily hair dyeing.) Closing -- I do think that the books have more depth and subtlety to them, but that's how Books work? Like- there's a lot more nuance and depth and subtext to comic book Wolverine than movie Wolverine. But comparing a half dozen movies to fifty years of comics isn't really a fair scale to it. Like- even expecting a 1:1 adaptation of the comics to anime would not really work if each volume had 1.3 episodes to work with.
Thank you for this video. I literally wrote a fanfiction about Stephen Stills and Joseph when I was a teenager. Everything you brought up about the comics is something I remember fondly and missed in the movie adaptation. I haven't seen the new series yet, but I am disappointed to hear that it deviates so far from the original as to lose connection with what made the original comics genuinely great in my eyes. (Anyway, I relate to your anxiety about being the Stop Having Fun Guy--I am often perplexed by why I dislike things that everyone else seems to love without criticism. Solidarity.)
Great video. I own the comics, but haven't read them in almost a decade. I loved the anime. But I was disappointed by the lack of exploration of the same characters. I loved what we got. I guess it had been long enough.
your opinions are as valid as anybody else's ofc, but that whole massive section ranting about how it's bad that the exes got more humanized in little ways as their own persons as opposed to just being further narrative accessories to ramona or scott really gets the point across that you just didn't get it because you just wanted to read the light novel again but animated, you're not seeing this show for what it is, but only for what it isn't and never intended to be.
Hello! I am 5 months late for this lol but like, holy cow, wow, thank you for putting my feelings on the animation into words. I was never big into Scott Pilgrim, I think I saw the movie for the first time around 4 years ago and enjoyed it (I always love snappy, fast-paced editing in visual media. Also I am not immune to the Envy concert.) And I've only ever read a handful of chapters of the comic so thank you for the extensive and coherent recaps & analyses in both your videos!! Anyway!! All that to say that I was initially indifferent to the anime announcement and knew I probably wouldn't be the target audience. Then I saw so many reviews praising it for it's "deep characters and fresh perspective on the series" which definitely piqued my interest. But...upon watching it I was completely underwhelmed. Like, the series was pitched to me as "getting to see Ramona's perspective and how she navigates these relationships without Scott around" and that was not what I got! Despite being absent for the majority of the series, it was still all about Scott. Yes, he's the main character, I understood that. But all of Ramona's decisions being motivated by finding Scott just really made it feel like he was hovering over her shoulder, or like she was trying to fill in for him instead of actually doing things for herself. It just felt really off, even as someone who went in with very little knowledge or attachment these characters. I really didn't know how else to describe it other than "feels off," but hearing you talk about the characters and how all they really have is more screen time finally clicked it into place. It is so, so frustrating when people conflate "seeing more of a character" with growth/development. So many times I've heard people describe characters as flat because "we see them do things but don't know who they are; what are their hobbies or goals?" which bothers me to no end and makes me wanna scream! Of course, don't get me wrong, learning more about a character definitely helps flesh them out! But it doesn't matter how many hobbies a character has or how sad their backstory is if nothing meaningful is ever done with them, especially in a story that's all about characters finding themselves and growing and learning through their relationships with each other. (btw Ramona and Gideon's relationship getting completely glossed over so that he could date Julie without issue and then turn into a pathetic sadboy comedic relief character also bothered me! A lot! I was really hoping they would properly talk about their relationship in some way. Any way. At all.) And, for what it's worth, I didn't get the feeling that this was just a video ranting about something you hate. It didn't even sound to me like you hate it so much as you were just disappointed. You were promised something from this show that it didn't deliver which sucks and feels bad! It felt like valid critique a show that's not bad but could've been so much better. Sorry for the long, late comment, but I really did want to say that I appreciate your viewpoint and explanations! I think the way you explained your feelings on the matter were done really clearly too. It came from a place of love for the characters and who they originally were/what they represented and seeing them be flanderized or reduced to jokes hurts. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this show (and thanks for your other videos as well, of which I may or may not have been binging recently!) You provide a lot of really great insight on the structure of stories which also helps me view things in ways I hadn't thought of before and it's very cool!! Hope you're doing well and that you keep doing what you love! (And that no other character you like ever gets as badly flanderized as Stephen ever again. Poor, poor Stephen...)
1:41 I hope this bin switch doesn’t get transferred through other future comic animated adaptations true to the source material and as much as possible
As someone who only watched the film, many of the criticisms don't have anywhere near as much weight for me. I didn't know Steven the way you did, so the simplification of his character to half of the film version which was a quarter or eighth of the original is much less impactful. Young Neil didn't feel like he had much identity, so being comic relief definitely made him more memorable. Ramona did feel like a thing to be won and a MPDG in the film. I think that's where this all comes from. I do agree with you that it could have been better using more of the source material, but it was still a good time. Really I didn't view it as an adaptation but more of a person playing with their toys, imagining new directions for them to go, but not trying to stay true to the original. It's a fanfiction I guess.
The people saying the characters are deeper and better rounded are comparing the series to the movie (in which the characters are REALLY flattend) Which makes a lot of sense since more people know the movie and they let the actors voice their characters again so it feels like an alternative version of it Ramona might not be a mpdg but that did NOT stop men from using her as a direct insult to women who even slightly look like her, theres a whole song called "ramona flowers ruined a whole generation of women" that gained a LOT of popularity about that, she desperately needed some space to breath I havent read the graphic novel cause the fandom seemed very unwelcoming to alt people and women like ramona but seeing people say "hey if you have some issues with the movie and liked what the show did, you should go read the graphic novel" has made me think about it and its been on my to-read list since then
The people who are very unwelcoming to alt people and women like ramona aren't part of the fandom, normally. MOst of the time they're just tourists somewhat familiar with it that just use her as the archetype
I agree. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy the show-I did- but it just wasn’t what I thought it was gonna be. Me and my brother were excited for Scott Pilgrim the anime and then… Scott Pilgrim was barely there lol. I enjoyed the “What If-- Scott ‘died’” but I wish we would’ve been promised something more than Ramona trying to find Scott. Maybe how things were going for Scott in the 4-5 episodes we had without him😭
This sums up beautifully the weird discordant feelings I had about the Barbie movie. I felt insane for not liking it. It felt beautiful but empty of any actual story, like the point of the movie was just telling me, the audience, how fondly I should remember Barbie now that I'm a jaded old crone in my thirties.
as a person who enjoyed the anime, and thought about it a LOT, i want to share my perspective (unfortunately with a lot of sonic comparisons): the voices having slightly-off vibes is intentional, and meant to match the mismatched lipsyncing to give it an old canadian dubbed anime feel, i thought that part was obvious but i can see how it just feels stilted if you're unfamiliar with it. personally i prefer it to just trying to pull everything off with a straight face and no flaws, as having charm is better to me than having polish in every corner. as for the arcs of gordon and lucas, i think they're a good exploration of how these characters (their behaviors, etc.) respond to being placed in new context. half the charm is how they're written in terms of dialogue style and flair, and the other half is their actual character traits and arc, and when the two show eachother off very, very well, it creates a well-rounded and fun character. (that part is, in my opinion, why classic sonic doesn't work very well) on this note of dialogue style and flair, stephen stills, in the comics, doesn't really bounce off the page because he's written like a human. flanderization in a situation like that is necessary, though when you're trying to boil down a character to make them more expressive and louder, you need to figure out exactly what a fan of the character sees in them in the first place. as an example, roger van der weide's video on sonic in lego dimensions talks about how the more recent comedic depictions of knuckles are missing the point, whereas his parodies go off of knuckles being a goal-focused loner and turn it into him being a terminator parody simplifying and focusing on flair is why knives, kim, and young neil are so different, and it feels like you ignored every bit of how they add to the anime's vibes because they're narratively convenient and don't do the same things as the comic or movie. in my eyes, i think knives' arc going the way it did was so convenient on purpose, to tell a story through a different lens, one that's less natural, but at the same time, more subtextually rich. it's the same as making everything rely on floaty and indistinct game mechanics. which... yes, game mechanics are used for a different narrative purpose here than they are in the comics. todd's portrayal, in my opinion, is interesting because you get to see how he reacts to his own treatment of others. he's put in the shoes of the women he dates. however, the emotional truths of this and how he responds to this are seemingly done entirely offscreen, only showing the aftermath in the ending. that, i feel, is a missed opportunity. i think wallace being the toxic partner in that scenario and generally turning out to be toxic and pessimistic under that bravado until he sees sparks for himself and breaks this whole facade of a character he was putting up (to the point of playing himself as a character in a movie) is subtextual enough to have been missed, but i think it's one of my favorite plot points
I went in to this show completely blind. I thought the girl with the pink hair was Scott Pilgrim, and that she was some sort of tom boy hero character. Without the context of the comics and movie, I thoroughly enjoyed the crazy vibes and zero explanations. You're just thrown into this world, so every "quirk" with voice acting, pacing, and character development I just sorta accepted and enjoyed the ride.
One thing I can compare the voices to are English dubs for anime, they’re always flat. This is especially apparent when compared to their original version.
I feel that comolaining that the cast doesnt react to time travel shenanigans it's exactly the same as the original not reacting accordingly to people dying in casual fights and becoming coins, it's just hiw their world expectations work
In an older draft of this video, I addressed this point more thoroughly, concluding with the line, "There is a difference between treating the fantastic as mundane and ignoring it completely."
Your videos are always a delight to watch. So much creativity, passion and effort on display. I think you really hit the nail on the head here as well. You put it really beautifully. I share the all same criticisms with the animated show too. I'm sure their intentions were the best, but it really seemed like in execution, the show relied on shock value and gags and was unable to replicate or reinvent the heart of Scott Pilgrim. Felt quite empty and hollow to me.
I also recently read the comics (last month) before watching the new show, I can say I feel similar about the writing of the characters. It starts off strong, but starts to fall flat the deeper we get into the season. I think it’s nostalgia that’s painting folks opinion.
I kinda get it Ramona being a bad person then being good the minute she comes to Toronto and then in the final battle suddenly showing a bad trait isn’t very good. Ramona being a bad person to improving herself in the manga is a better ark than the shows. Scott kinda don’t got an ark but it doesn’t feel bad cuz he’s not as much of an asshole as before, still cheats though. Mpdg fits for movie Ramona cuz she doesn’t do anything in that movie. Seeing the Exes acctuly do something compared to dying before anything interesting happens (exceptions being Todd and Gideon) is better cuz characters like Lucas get a personality and become actual characters. Ramona’s ark in the shows still isn’t bad but not as good as in the book. Book Scott and Ramona are two horrible people who better themselves for each other. Sparks make up for the missing love that should have been there, it shows that they truly love each other.
16:47 I think the only reason is because in the comics it's stated a few times he finds Scott hot. So having him dressed up as Scott did it for him ig.
This did resonate, thanks for the stellar video! I've never read the comics, but I did watch and enjoy the movie. I didn't hate the anime but I don't really know why it exists outside of 'more content, more references'. Without spending too much time on a rant no one will read, it felt like the film used Ramona as a vehicle to explore Scott, largely to her (and other characters') detriment. Now, with years to revisit and unpack that story, with Ramona as the lead... she's used as a vehicle to explore Scott (or, at least, to reference our nostalgia for him), largely at the expense of other characters (Roxie's moments excluded). It made it hard to buy into Ramona's self-actualisation at the end, and it felt more than a bit cynical for the true ending to be "Nah, you're /meant/ for each other'. I think it could've been a bolder and more interesting show if they committed to Scott's disappearance and let the other characters breathe. Instinctively, I feel like we're being collectively conditioned to confuse references & nostalgia with depth and meaning (e.g. Marvel). Not to say that these weren't problems before, but with less companies owning more properties each it's easier to build and monetise our loyalty to IPs.
i havent seen the video yet but before i do, i just wanna say this title is such a relief. absolutely did not enjoy this show at all, it felt like it missed literally everything that made the comics and even movie enjoyable. there was an interview where someone involved with the show stated "since everyone hates scott now, here you go, a show without scott" and i think making a series based on stupid internet discourse is such an abhorrent idea that its no surprise it ended up so sour. no clue how its so beloved
I admit to not having watched the anime version on Netflix, but I have read the comics and own the film on DVD. But what you described about how the series seems to react to our collective memory of the story rather then to the actual story really does hit a nerve. I've seen it happen plenty of times over and over. The only thing I can say is give it another couple of years, typically that's when people go back to the original and find out that "hey, would ya look at that. Looks like this DIDN'T play into the tropes we all wound up hating and actually these characters have lots of nuances and agency of their own". What is frustrating to see, however, is that even the original creator got so weighed down by the collective memory that even O'Malley seems to have forgotten what he wrote. Or just grew massively insecure over it. Just shows you how destructive and shallow internet discourse can be at times.
I was wondering why I didn't enjoy the show despite it's obvious strengths (esthetics), thanks for explaining it to me. I was excited after 2-3 episodes realizing it was a totally original storyline, but then I had to fight my way to and through episode 6, I was ready to call it quits, but I was curious about the opinions out there so I watched someone else's videoreview and they mentioned there were pacing issues in the middle but that it picked up in the last two episodes. So I finished it, and I kept my midpoint impression: it was an ambitious attempt to do something new, it failed, lets move on... Thanks to fleshing out why it just doesn't work
16:28 Wallace wants to make out with tod cause he’s whering the Scott pilgrim outfit and the author thought it would be funny to support the Scott and Wallace fan fict
you're right. I tried watching watching it earlier this year and I stopped after episode three because it was so trash to me. The characterizations were so off point and I'm glad someone else noticed it along with the under par voice acting. I also hated how much hand-holing there was just in those three episodes. Like why explicitly show me Ramona changing her hair color only to have that information relayed again in dialogue? We were all there when it happened! Do they think I'm stupid? Hmph 😤
"The highlight is Roxy" You're goddamn right The only reason I even watched Takes Off is because of the insane love everyone showed for Roxy in it, they could have gotten away with just making the show about her.
Also I love how they used two characters that people loved and said needed more screen time (Kim and Roxy) then used them to give each other more depth
I feel like the disconnect between the show and what you wanted it is that show just didn't take itself seriously, it had such a major focus on anime-style comedy and so with that comes all of this simplification of the characters. That also ties a lot into what the last video had to say about adaptations, because that increased comedic focus is due to the fact that this isn't just translating Scott Pilgrim to animation, its to a specifically Japanese anime, and so comes a lot of the expected tropes of one. Another reason for that disconnect is that I feel the anime is at times almost scared of retreading ideas from the comic and movie. That's why a lot of the important plot beats with Gideon, most of the other exes, and Stephen are just ignored, because those ideas were already shown in the comic and movie, and since the writers are trying (perhaps TOO hard) to not be another adaptation, those things important to those characters are avoided. They were just interested in showcasing NEW stuff, and so any old arc that wasn't important to that new stuff was left by the wayside. Also, in a part of this video you discuss the evolution of O'Malley's work, and you showed the pattern of the complex emotions that come with certain ages, Lost at Sea for teens, Scott Pilgrim for 20 somethings, Seconds for 30s. That led me to think that Scott Pilgrim Takes Off would then be about emotions from your 40s. Of course, as you pointed out, the time travel stuff Old Scott does retreads Seconds, but it could be argued that a lot of someone's 40s retreads their 40s. Going from Takes Off, what's added would be this bitterness to the recollection of the past, vs Seconds much more melancholy tone. I feel like there's a lot more that could be done with that idea but this is just a youtube comment and I don't have time to reread/watch all these comics involved rn so I'll leave it at that
To me, Takes Off is barely an adaptation: its a parody with a few emotional scenes. And honestly, I think it does a good job of that. But I do agree with you, when I first watched it, I enjoyed it, but I was incredibly disappointed in how they represented the characters. Now, I can appreciate for what it is rather than what is isn't. Takes Off is really fun, and will always be one of the most entertaining shows I've ever seen. But in terms of a narrative, I feel like it had everything lined up in its favor, then just kept fumbling the ball.
Last year i watched the movie and was really, really enchanted by it. After it, i decided to watch the anime (didn't like it as much as the movie, btw), then i just went to the comics and honestly, they are so cool! And i finished my reading very recently, and watching this video only reinforces why i was able to resonate so much with it. Thanks for the video, i also really liked the one about the movie!
I don't agree with you on the topic of the movie, as it seems you're unable to disconnect the comments from the movie material, however in terms of Scott Takes Off, you have a really strong point. I've read the comics, and watched the movie, but Netflix seems to take portions of both. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off both needs you to understand and forget the source material it's adapting, with things like Kim's memories and Envy Adams both being boiled down and simplified. The story has grand ideas for how it wants to confront the exes and Ramona's past, but with how she acts in Scott Takes Off she's entirely different from how she was depicted in both the comic and the Anime. She's unwaveringly dedicated, and that makes her endearing to an extent, but ending the series with a "I'm done running" line, falls empty as she's been done running since Episode 2. The show takes complicated things from the original, boils them down, and then tries to rebuild them to add depth that was already there, with Roxanne as a good example. It adapts the IDEA of Scott Pilgrim, but not the Movie or Comic itself. The characters get boiled down, the main messages fall flat, and it feels like the only true thing the show has done well is putting our wacky characters we like in wacky situations.
Future James is NOT beating the "I don't like it because it's different" allegations. In seriousness though, I want to put this kindly because frankly it ain't that serious to not like a thing that I like, and I too understand the feeling of questioning what the disconnect is between how you're seeing something and how everyone else does. But it truly does feel like your attachment to a specific progression of things is getting in the way of seeing this show for what it actually is, which is a production given 10 episodes to work itself out with no promise of any future beyond that in the current landscape. Even if it tried to do the comic justice, it never would have had the time, and exploring the old characters and world through the butterfly effect and through a decade or more of hindsight produces some interesting results and character moments, even if this is largely a response piece to the film and not the comic itself. But listening to the criticism, I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the character moments that you claim aren't there actually are present, they were just perhaps more subtle than you would have preferred, for example Knives' animosity towards Ramona persists even as she's asked to meet with Ramona to discuss details, until she softens slightly upon learning Ramona's been working to try and help Scott. I don't even truly understand the criticism of the voice acting, I thought the cast did really well even though hearing they were bringing the movie cast to do voiceover rolls initially activated my fight or flight response. It feels to me like this adaptation wasn't meant to encompass the entirety of the story of the original comic, nor that it necessarily covers the entire plot arc of the movie in a way. It kind of feels like a new beginning for the characters, a new starting point for them all to get where they're going. Either way, if you don't like it you don't like it and there's no problem with that, even though it's a shame since the original story means so much to you. But no one can ever take that original story and what it means to you away from you.
Well props to you for having a dissenting opinion. I don't agree, but you brought up some interesting points. I think you're right about it being the audience who has changed, but also the creators. When you're in your 20s and a loser stuff has to change. But Bryan Lee O'Malley is 45 now. You hit middle age and maybe feel different about the shitty band and crap friends you left behind. Perhaps there was a way to leave the bad and keep the good, perhaps you were too dismissive, perhaps the girl who got away was The girl. And his career is deeply dominated by something extremely of its time. He clearly wanted to fix it, but also maybe a bit wants to go back. There's a reason it's a time travel story is what I'm saying.
Thank you so much for making this video. People have torched me alive because I didn't like the Anime, beacuse I like the cómics. I feel so happy there is someone else who feels this way, and can explain it better than me
I would had like if this video was a critique of the anime WITHOUT the comparisons to past source material, because they are pointless. it is not an adaptation, it was never meant to be, when you realize that, you realize why it was made the way it was. everyone involve knew this, when you are working on a budget, you cannot have those sort of liberties
I cant really put my whole thought about the video in a board sense but what i can think about is your line talking about how everyone forgot why this history was great on the first place. Sometimes we forget that we don't feel attract to media the same way. You felt attracted to emotional stakes and relationships between these characters meanwhile other people felt attracted to the characters design, the music, the actors, the cgi or the story. Ones watch the movie because of this things and never read the comics, others read the comics and never watch the movie. We experience media on a different way so what im trying to say is was it what you considered the important part of the story what everyone else got from this media? I can't answer that question but thats what i came to think watching your video. Is really good video and i like it. Keep it up :)
I don't see why they couldn't do an animated series that perfectly adapts the comics, and then afterwards do a completely different take with a new story focused on Ramona with a completely new spin.
When the movie came out, I was already in love with the comics, which spoke deeply to me and what I was going through at the time. Wright's adaptation left a bitter taste in my mouth, feeling it was all style with no substance by changing Scott's personality, the moral of the story and missing what made the original so great: the day-to-day development of its characters and their gradual evolution. Despite its visual qualities, I never understood the hype the movie got after that. When the anime's announcement came, I was ecstatic. Sure it has the cast and crew of the movie, but it seemed like it would be a very faithful adaptation, following the events of the books closely, and I was sure that Science Saru would do something great with the anime medium. I couldn't wait to show my girlfriend what was so important to me back in my twenties with a new lick of paint. But close to its release date, I heard that it would take a new direction, and I felt a little bummed out. So I waited to see it until the feeling would fade. Then I saw your video and said "what the heck, at least I will know if it's my cup of tea". Guess I will just lend the comic-book to my girlfriend now.
I had the exact same feelings about this show. It felt like a whole lot of nothing that served more as fanservice than a genuinely meaningful addition to, or conversation about, the original source material. Almost like a wish fulfillment canon divergent fanfiction written by a teenager. If I may be dramatic, I think the existence of Scott Pilgrim Takes Off will only further this issue of scrambled memory which seems to devalue the original so much, as people's perceptions got lost between the truth of the movies and the books, which are VERY different stories. I found myself watching this show going, who are these people? What value does it add to the universe for me to know this extra information about them, to see them in a "what if" scenario? If Bryan Lee O'Malley wanted to tell such a fresh, different story, he shouldn't have told a Scott Pilgrim story at all.
You know, I actually really like the anime because I’m a Scott super fan and didn’t know it was coming until I saw it on Netflix.. but you are right pretty much about every point. I did have to come to terms with the fact all the characters were different characters than the comic that I loved so much. I think I just did it because I was so happy to see them again. 😬👍
I was following your points, but I’m sorry your conclusion sent me up a wall. I also read the comics again before the anime too. I keep the comics on my desk, Ramona is the name I took for myself when I came out as trans ffs. Please don’t assume I’ve forgotten this story. And honestly? You’re selling the anime’s fans short. There was an entire movement on tumblr where the anime caused them to re-read or even read the comic for the first time because they only ever knew the comic by it’s bad “manic pity saves a dude” reputation. Through the anime they realized the franchise was so much more nuanced than they gave it credit for. I love the anime, love the comic, frankly dislike the film too, and whole heartedly disagree with your points. If I have a problem with this series, it’s how condensed it is, but to fully respond to all the comic frankly need another eight episodes minimum. It works better as an answer to the film. It gives more focus to characters prominent in the film and leans more on their depictions. Which makes perfect sense, since these are the film actors! Ugh. I don’t want to talk you into liking something you don’t, and I’ve honestly been where you are. I felt like I was going insane with how much the movie was being praised at the time, and how I must love the film since I was the person who banged on about these comics in the first place in school. Nor do I think you or your critiques are wrong. The comics have more to offer than was mined here. But, I think you should regard those who liked it with a little more charity. Frankly, I should’ve been more charitable to the films fans.
I watched the anime, then read the comics, then watched the movie I like all of them. When it comes to the anime, all I have to say is: you're thinking about it too much, and you're comparing it to the original too much. Just take it for what it is: it's just goofy fun. No, it's not the same emotional story the comics are. And I guess in a way, I'm okay with that. The comedy is really funny (tho I will agree it starts to drag around the movie making arc, but I digress) I like it because I decided to just take it for what it is. I don't think it's completely trash. It doesn't have a lot to say, but as a comedy it's pretty fucking funny lmao. It flanderizes characters for the sake of comedy, and imo it sort of works. If you're a fan of the comics and a fan of some of these characters, I can see why that could bother you. Envy in the anime is definitely not the same Envy in the comics. But personally, I guess I don't mind it as much because I didn't see the comics first. And thats the main problem here: people are so attached to these characters that it makes them unable to take the anime for what it is.
I like the show a lot! I have been watching the movie sinve i was a kid, probably way too young frankly, and read the comics a few years after watching the film for the first time. But i really like the show, it felt a lot more like Ramona's pace of life, in a way, which i think lent to the tone well. I agree the voice acting is a little weird, but I dont think it does so much harm unless you're used to animated shows/movies
people do tend to simplify most things to popular surface level zeitgest-y takes, especially as they start to fade from memory. tbf that is not only for cultural memory, we kinda do that to personal memories we dont examine too closely as individuals. gotta compress that information somehow.
This is like a really great video though, why the fuck are the views so low? I mean maybe the title seems a bit like oh this is a reactionary thing at first glance without having seen your previous stuff? I feel like it's likely that youtube censored it though, which is an absolute tragedy
I completely agree with you! I'm so glad someone else was able to put my thoughts into words. I loved the books and even the movie and was super disappointed with Takes Off. As a side note, the movie may not have much heart compared to the comics, but the movie is good simply because it's funny. Way funnier than Takes Off at that. I don't remember laughing at all in Takes Off, whereas both the comics and movie get me to laugh even while rereading/rewatching them.
Thank you for making this video. When the anime came out, I felt literally every single word you said in my soul, and felt like no one around me related to how I felt. I'm fine with people enjoying the anime, good for them! I just didn't, and it made me sad, because I love Scott Pilgrim, both the movie and especially the comics, and it sucked that a new installation a decade later just... wasn't for me. I wanted desperately to enjoy it, but couldn't because of all the flaws listed here and more! Delivery felt flat, disconnected and honestly amateurisic, jokes felt like they NEVER got the timing correctly, making them annoying instead of funny. Even when I like the idea of a joke, the delivery is instrumental for the enjoyment of it and I didn't like the delivery of a single joke the entire show. It all felt forced, rushed, empty, devoid of the original. Characters I loved are shells of their former selves, same outside but different stuffing, one I didn't like the taste of. Arcs from the original were ignored, replaced, rewritten or forgotten for what I felt wrre shallower arcs. Big plots and emotional beats skipped in favor of the new ideas which made it impossible for me to even attempt connect with those, as I'd still be pondering over some baffling character lines and decisions that killed who these were originally. Steven, Kim, Knives, Scott, Envy, god fucking Wallace what did they do to you I'm so sorry you're not even CLOSE to the same men you were. I mean, to me, even Ramona somehow feels like she has LESS agency in this story than the original, as her motivations and goals now seem defined by the "meant-to-be romance" with Scott, as you perfectly put it. And that's fine if people like all of that! I'm just sad I didn't. I did try, and I'm happy for those that did. For those that gave the film or the comics a second or third chance thanks to the series. But I'm still dissapointed. Thanks again for sharing this, all the feelings you laid out were the exact ones I had, and it felt good I wasnt the only one out there with this perspective. I know its kinda hard to grasp this sentiment, but I really do love your videos. Your essays are some of the most well-comunicated I've ever seen. Keep being awesome and heres to hopefully a future with something we will love like the originals again!
I might be reading into it wrong, but I read Ramona's constant hair changes as a visual metaphor for her inconstancy and distance from the people around her. Ramona or someone talking to her brings up explicitly that she wants to avoid people getting to know the real her out of a fear of rejection, hence the running and self-reinventions, and this is represented by her constantly changing an immediately noticeable aspect of her character design. In the last episode, she has a natural hair colour - blonde - with her previous teal hair remaining only at the tips, to represent her becoming more comfortable in being known. Even if that is how it was intended, however, I do think it comes across as a little unclear. They should have made some alterations to the animation of her morning haircare routine that gets recycled through the other episodes if she hasn't dyed her hair in a while or is removing the dye. I also think they could have left her with her teal hair rather than undye her, because that would have added visual consistency. The idea of her natural hair colour being more "her", too, seems off to me even if I can understand the idea - her dyed hair was a conscious choice and felt like it showed us more of who she is than the absence of dyed hair does.
im someone who has only ever seen the movie and i loved it with all my heart, even though the whole Roxie thing is a bit problematic. I don't really like the anime, but for me its def a performance thing first. Like the movie is still sooo funny to me and the anime has really weird pacing and the jokes just fall flat. My first watch wasn't so bad, but then the 2nd watch I watched the movie first with my boyfriend and we both loved it and laughed so much. Then we tried watching the anime and... well... i just couldnt even get past the first 3 episodes with him because I realized how it paled in comparison to the movie so much. I guess your situation is even worse having to directly relate it to the comics. Anyway, thanks for making this video.
It feels so validating to find someone who agrees with me on this adaptation! I personally enjoyed it a lot in the beginning and end, but it's like you said - mostly frosting without cake. I'm an animator, so I mostly enjoyed it for the visuals. The animation is insane and so is the cinematography. I never liked the movie much because my favorite part of the comics is the fact that it's a story about Scott realizing his flaws, Ramona realizing hers, and the two of them agreeing to become better people together... the anime really lost me on a lot of stuff, it felt like surface level characterization and a lot of things didn't make sense to me, I was missing key parts of the characters, etc. etc. In the end, I decided to focus on what I enjoyed because the idea of an animated Scott Pilgrim was something I wanted for so long. I think it has a lot of good points, and I'm really glad it was made, but I still agree it missed out on a lot of levels.
I don’t think your missing the point of the books at all and I definitely noticed all of those things when reading but I think maybe you missed the point of the show for a lot of people. As someone whose favorite comic of all time is Scott I felt this version of the story was more of a celebration and critique on its own identity. These characters were mash ups of both their movie and comic counterparts not necessarily taking the best qualities but the qualities that stuck out to a lot of people. However I also think that’s what makes it really fun to get to know the exs more just as people whose lives are as messy as Scott’s or Ramona’s. It’s like if the show was giving you the Kim mini issue but for the exs while also letting characters we’ve seen struggling like Knives and Stephen to just be fun and win for once. Even the idea of old Scott and making him the distorted version of himself after he thought he divorced his wife is like an amusement park version of our Scott. We can accept that he’s there because we know how Scott could have gone there although that’s not what we hope. But realizing their relationship was never over is a nice send off without letting him off easy. I just think that if you look at the show less as a sequel to either the book or movie and instead see it as celebration and critique on the critiques placed on the work showing things like how Ramona was never just a one dimensional character or how Scott is actually confident and a slacker but also someone willing to change.
the whole meta commentary of scott pilgrim within the netflix anime itself is what jumped the shark for me. also i'm not a fan of time travel so it left me pretty disappointed. especially since i have friends who really enjoyed it. oh well.
I truly did enjoy the anime as a show, but i do agree with you on these points as an objective standpoint. I was honestly suprised to see the characters mischarcterized so much and the show having little emotional value becaue o’malley was on the team. I feel like this version of the show had a lot more potential if the characters were written better and if they expanded on some things like change and looking forward to the future a bit more emotional to feel more authentic to O’Malley’s works. Even through all this i still did enjoy the series, even if it didnt feel as true to the franchise
The anime left a really sour taste in my mouth and even after re watching it for the first time since it came out a year later I still feel that way. I feel they had the perfect opportunity to do right by the comics which was left out in the movie. The book and movie split off after the first fight and the comic book story was completely left behind. so many people's perceptions of what Scott pilgrim is, is the movie and as much as I enjoy it, it does not do the story or characters justice. so much of the growth that made me fall in love with the story so many people dont know. I think that's why the show leaves a sour taste in my mouth. They wouldn't be redoing the movie because the story splits off in such different directions. After the first episode the story is not the same. I wanted to be able to point at the show and say to people. This is why I love Scott pilgrim. Both with the original art style and the story behind it. I cant do that because to watch the show you need to have already watched the movie, read the comics and the other forms of media. The show is kind of horrible in many ways because of that. There are some things I really like about it but there is so much that makes me sad. The twins are completely sidelined once again. They end up being so meaningless to Scott pilgrim. Idk I love and hate the anime. Whish we got a more complete version of Scott pilgrim with the best of the comics and the movie. The whole twist of the show pissed me off than it surprised me. leading up to the show's release they never even really hinted at it being different so I felt really tricked. Went in to see the best version of Scott pilgrim and got a marvel what if episode.
loved the video!!! here's my take: i think that looking at the anime as "scott pilgrim takes off", aka what the rest of the cast would've done without scott is wrong. like, it should be obvious weither you like the anime or not that it is all about ramona. heck, stacy, *scott's sister* barely exists in the anime and don't have even an appropriate scene in his funeral???? like, what. but with that, i liked most of what they did with ramona, it was an interesting look. just like the movie had a different scott than the comics, the anime has a different ramona. but a similar enough one to have some interest in a new arc the character could've taken in it's growth, another aspect. my problem is that just like the movie had problems in executing the arc of scott learning self respect, the anime had problems in ramona's story of not running away. although i do have to say one major thing the anime really upsetted me about (even more then the lack of growing relationship and love between scott and ramona) is that they treat gideon as a joke. like, sorry, sorry, this is too much. confronting gideon should've been a major step in ramona's growth and a chance to do a lot of very interesting ideas. instead the one abisive relationship of ramona is treated like a joke. not cool. it's like the movie. i enjoy it, i really do. i love many parts of it, just that the story doesn't hit me as it should and like it does every time i read the comics. just like the movie, it's a good bad adaptation. it has it's merits and it's faults. mostky because scott pilgrim is a story that needs it's time. a story of growth and relationships isn't done in one movie or 8 episodes, and untill an adaptation will take the time to show us those small moments like in the comics, it will never be able to adapt the story like it should be. the story of a scott pilgrim doean't exist in the fights, or in the plot or even in the drama. it exists in the small moments we see the characters' day to day life between all the drama. and i think that mosr media formats will never be able to spend money for such moments, and the story therefore will never hit like it should hit. and, well, maybe thats still not so bad.
I see your points and understand why you feel the way you do, even though I personally don't agree. I personally love the anime, just as much as I love the comics, just as much as I love the film. For me, it's just more of Scott Pilgrim and its characters. I've watched both the film and anime and read the graphic novels multiple times over and have enjoyed them each time. I love them all, both as their connections and responses and references to each other and as their own things separate from one another. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the anime and that it didn't have the themes you wanted from the books. That does really suck. But I hope comments like mine and some of the more verbose down here help to explain why we love the anime despite the differences. Editing right after posting to add one thing: Brian has stated that it's best to view each piece of Scott media as its own universe. Movie Scott, Comic Scott, and Anime Scott are all similar, but not the same Scott, and their worlds are similar but not the same. And that's where I'm able to compartmentalize the three as their own things.
It's definitely not a "YOU'RE VERBALIZING WHAT MY SOUL HAS BEEN SCREAMING" situation for me, but... you're not wrong. Your criticism may be subjective and somewhat abstract, but I think it's relatively accurate.
You’re not as alone as you think you are, James. I was so excited when the anime was announced, and it’s not that I hated it. At the time I found it enjoyable… Then two weeks passed and I’d forgotten nearly everything about it. I’ve only read the comics twice ever, 8 and 6 years ago respectively, and there are still lines, scenes, panels, little details, and entire sections permanently burned into my brain. The comics were an uncomfortable story about coming of age, relationships, and emotional baggage, all disguised by goofiness and nerd shit to pull you in. The anime feels more like a cutesy romantic comedy show, disguised as a Scott Pilgrim story.
