Charles Oppenheimer, a grandson of Oppenheimer, contests that apple scene though. From an interview: "The part I like the least is this poison apple reference, which was a problem in American Prometheus [the book on which the film is based]." "I definitely would have removed the apple thing," before adding context to where the sequence comes from: "If you read American Prometheus carefully enough, the authors say, 'We don't really know if it happened.' "There's no record of him trying to kill somebody. That's a really serious accusation and it's historical revision. There's not a single enemy or friend of Robert Oppenheimer who heard that during his life and considered it to be true."
Poetic license to repurpose the apple. Very interesting remark. Jews don’t name kids after living relations. Jewish individualism is such that there cannot be two of someone. That would be like a wish to kill the doppelgänger. So J. Robert might have taken offense.
One thing we know - there was no British or Canadian input to Manhattan Project. Not one tiny fragment at all. 100% USofA only. I suspect the movie is precise on this point.
If they included all these other points, this would have been a messy movie. That is why screenwriting and story telling is important. We didn't need the full apple fallout. Its inclusion is enough to point out that Oppenheimer though brilliant had issues
Exactly, you can't include everything in a movie, that's why the books that the movies are based on are often better. Having just watched this, I'm more excited to see the movie.
The movie whitewashes some awful people who belonged in prison or on death row. Trying to poison someone with an apple, adultery, being an accessory to mass murder, driving drunk repeatedly, being god-awful parents...c'mon. Just more Hollywood filth covering for filth.
It already is messy! And making a "historic" film whilst having historical inaccuracies is downright bad writing imo. Like, nobody forced Nolan to make a movie about Oppenheimer, if you're gonna do it, do it accurately.
Appreciate this video, it helps to calibrate the movie's historical accuracy. One thing the movie depicts but doesn't focus upon is the intellectual grunt work involved with getting the explosive lenses needed for that implosion design to work correctly. (Oppenheimer's Gamble - The Plutonium Crisis) is the title of a recent video which delves into the work needed to make this happen. It gave me a bit more of a sense of what the scientists would have been working on in a day to day sense of things. Lots of repeated calculations needed to achieve a smooth spherical implosion shockwave.
That's a great video, and after watching it I do have a greater appreciation for the difficulties in ensuring that the explosives would all detonate together, creating the necessary energy for the activation of the implosion device. It helps us to really appreciate all the tense scenes at the Trinity test about whether the implosion would work.
No, Japan was not likely to surrender in the summer or fall of 1945 (or later). The Japanese military were committed to a defense of slaughtering the American landing troops on the beaches, even if it meant millions of Japanese deaths. No, stating that the emperor system would not be disturbed would not have been sufficient to get a surrender. Debate among the 'Big Six' (the Japanese inner cabinet) hinged on the military's insistence on three additional conditions, none of which would have been acceptable to the Allies.
The setting for Los Alamos and Oppenheimer's ranch wasn't in the correct climate zone. There are at least 6 zones in New Mexico. Los Alamos is in the transition zone characterized by mixed conifer woodland, principally ponderosa pine, situated on a plateau, and not in a depression between mesas.
Good information to have. But we know the Los Alamos film location was really chosen more for the vast sense of "nothingness" it would convey. Moreover, Los Alamos is quite built up today and the crew picked a new location that would be easier to manipulate while providing excellent cinematographic possibilities. Speaking of woods, the crew actually did use the Oppenheimers' house in Los Alamos for the shoot. Tree brush and bushes were placed around it to obscure the more modern buildings and cars surrounding it.
Topic of the video: Everything Oppenheimer Gets Right And Wrong About The True Story First thing it does: Butchers the pronunciation of the name Strauss--- something that is mentioned in the movie.
This is very interesting. Historic,precise. Sounds really nice. Japan was never going to surrender voluntarily. Even if they Hirohito remained Emperor. Of course he did,but they were not going to surrender. I will see it sometime
@@testcase6997 he's explaining what he thinks would have happened if Japan wasn't bombed (they would not have surrended). They only surrended after witnessing the power of an atomic bomb and it capability of destroying an entire city in a blink of an eye. Therefore, even this is true or not (we will never know for sure) his statement is logically correct
I have not seen the movie, but have they told you that USA stole German scientists to invent the Atomic bomb, or the story gives all the credits to the ''Americans''?
Correction: the film acknowledged that Tatlock may have been killed by a government agent. There was a hand in black glove behind her neck in the bathtub if you looked closely
Thanks for that. I'll have to look for that detail. It's a tough one. Jean certainly could have been murdered due to her relationship with Oppenheimer. But something the movie doesn't go into but this short discussion does is that part of Jean's push-pull with Oppie was possibly related to her sexuality. She may have been a closeted lesbian and this discussion posits that she waa at least bisexual. As she also studied psychology Jean would have known that psychology at that time considered homosexuality aberrant. She was a serious psychologist and that might have been a great internal battle for her. That could also have contributed to her feelings of depression and eventual suicide. As her father burned her papers after her body was found, we really don't know.
@@gusadicoYes. In the film Oppie mentions the medicines to Kitty. But it's also possible that Jean simply took different medications to overdose. As a psychologist she could prescribe medications and would have known what to use.
There’s a really quick cut to Janes Suicide scene where you see a hand pushing her underwater! That was an interesting hint on what really happened to her
Given that the scene was in color, and the scenes in color represented Oppenheimer's (subjective) perspective, I take it to mean he was stewing over whether she died at her own hand or someone else's.
Henry Stimson's resistance to Kyoto being on the top of the target list was much more complicated than whether he honeymooned there or not. He did have an understanding of Japanese psychology via trips to Japan and his associations with various people, and his main concern with Leslie Groves' focus on Kyoto was that destroying the biggest center of Japanese culture would be counterproductive to the war effort. Not only would there likely be international condemnation for attacking a city with no significant military infrastructure, which would play into Japan's favor, but Stimson also thought that it would either delay Japan's surrender or instigate a significant military insurgency afterwards. Imagine bombing Mecca in retaliation to 9/11. Also, did the war in Iraq in 2003 end immediately after the capture of Baghdad? Groves reported to Stimson, but he went over Stimson's head to recommend Kyoto to Truman to be at the top of the target list. Stimson then convinced Truman to remove Kyoto from the target list, but the story didn't end there. The Potsdam Conference was coming soon, and Stimson was denied an invitation to attend the conference by the maneuverings of various people who wanted to restore Kyoto to the target list. Much of the final planning of the atomic bomb missions was going to be discussed there, and they wanted to make sure that Stimson was left out of the proceedings. However, Stimson was so convinced of the folly of destroying Kyoto that he bought tickets to travel to Potsdam using his own money. He showed up without warning but he wasn't turned back, and he was able to stay close enough to Truman to make sure that Kyoto stayed off the target list completely. It should be noted that if Kyoto had been attacked with an atomic bomb, and if it did cause a delay of only one week in Japan's decision to surrender, this would have allowed the USSR to implement its firm plans to invade the northern main island of Hokkaido on August 22nd 1945. With most of Japan's home defense forces focused in Kyushu in the south, awaiting the US, the Red Army might have had a much easier time prosecuting the invasion than was expected. Stalin might not have stopped once he reached his initial goal of taking the northern half of Hokkaido, perhaps capturing the entire island or even invading the biggest island of Honshu. The result would probably have been a polarized North/South Japan similar to North/South Korea, significantly complicating the US's security posture in the Pacific after the war. Many people say the US's possession of an atomic bomb would have convinced Stalin to stop, but Stalin and Roosevelt already had an agreement for the USSR to enter the war against Japan three months after the end of the war in Europe. What would the US have done, then? Form an immediate alliance with Japan, who they were bombing just the day before, to confront the USSR, which was formerly an ally? It doesn't seem likely. Any successful invasion of Hokkaido by the USSR would have been a big threat to Japan. The biggest internal opposition to the Japanese government during the war was considered to be the Japanese Communist Party. The success of the Red Army in the north may have triggered a rebellion and possible Communist coup in Tokyo, and Stalin would surely have exploited this. If the US had finally gotten around to invading Kyushu in November 1945, it's conceivable that the army that met them there might not have been the Japanese Imperial Army, but the Red Army. This is of course is a stretch, but we can't underestimate the significance of Kyoto in the planning for the atomic bomb missions, and what had to be done to remove it from the target list.
This is such a fascinating alternative historical scenario, and I've never seen it covered before. I've held the belief that the atomic bombings were primarily to hasten the end of the war (before the Soviets got super involved) but I never considered the deeper reasoning behind not bombing Kyoto, or that it could go to this level and result in the first true front of the Cold War. Do you have any historical resources on this (or in another way, what were your sources?) I've always been interested in the morality and political reasonings for the atomic bombings, and with Oppenheimer out it's only renewed my interest. Any extra input would be greatly appreciated!
@@owenreynolds9599 There is an extensive bibliography in the book "Racing The Enemy" by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa which was published in 2005. Hasegawa is a Japanese historian who is also fluent in English and Russian. Fluency in all three languages is necessary to correlate events from relevant documents that became declassified or otherwise available in Japan, the US, and Russia in the 1990s. Also, the book "The End of the Pacific War" was edited by Hasegawa and it basically represents a peer-review of Hasagawa's data and conclusions by four other historians who specialize in this period of history. These historians' attitudes range from progressive to conservative regarding the effect and necessity of the atomic bomb attacks on Japan in August 1945. Because of the controversial nature of this subject and the somewhat entrenched attitudes of the public at large, Hasegawa and the other four historians are very careful to avoid speculation on issues that do not have an absolutely solid foundation in available documentation. However, I do take some of their ideas a bit further based on other evidence I've seen. For example, nowhere in these books is it mentioned that Stalin had firm plans to capture the entire island of Hokkaido starting on August 22nd 1945, just that he intended to capture approximately the northern half of the island. My statement on him going further than that is my speculation, based on the fact that Japan had such a huge fraction of its forces in Kyushu waiting for the US that the Red Army would probably have had an easier time than was expected in Hokkaido. It could perhaps have paralleled the ease with which the Red Army swept aside the Japanese Kwantung Army in Manchuria following the August 9th declaration of war by the USSR on Japan. I also use an article presented in John W. Dower's book "Japan in War & Peace" (1993) to justify my thinking about the effect of the Red Army's invasion on the stability of the Japanese government had it occurred. The article mentions how the Japanese Government meticulously recorded and tabulated popular opposition to the government via things such as graffiti in public places, and how they determined the strength of the local Communist Party from this data. They saw the Communist Party to be the biggest internal threat in terms of their potential ability to stage a coup or destabilize the government in other ways, and I tied this to the possibility of the Red Army's invasion acting as a catalyst. I have also visited the Matsushiro Tunnel complex in the mountains of Nagano Prefecture in Japan, which was an underground facility that was constructed at the end of WW2 as a place for the government to be able to retreat to should Tokyo be threatened. Neither Hasegawa nor the other four historians in "The End of the Pacific War" directly mention these tunnels, but based on other testimonials I've read about aborted plans for the US to use atomic bombs to help the French in similar mountainous terrain in North Vietnam in the early 1950s, it seemed feasible to me that the Matsushiro Tunnels might have provided decent protection from nuclear attack from the air. Japan had its own nuclear program, and while they didn't get very far with it they had a good idea of what an atomic bomb could do and how difficult and time-consuming it would be to create a significant inventory of them. (This is based on another of the articles in "Japan in War & Peace"). The only indirect reference to the Matsushiro Tunnels by Hasegawa was from the meeting minutes of one of the war cabinet meetings after the Nagasaki attack, when Army Minister Anami made a brief comment suggesting the emperor leave Tokyo, due to intelligence he claimed he had received from captured US airmen regarding a planned atomic bomb attack on Tokyo. This plan was never substantiated, and Anami seemed to withdraw or at least not press his recommendation for the emperor to leave Tokyo. It certainly would have been an option for the Japanese government to retreat to Nagano, and I think it emphasizes the idea that they didn't consider the atomic bombs to be as decisive to the war as many now assume. They considered the USSR's declaration of war to be the most important factor in their decision to surrender, according to Hasegawa, with the atomic bombs being more of a side-show.
Since Emperor Hirohito was so fundamental to the surrender of Japan, and since the exact target of a Kyoto bomb drop would have been the palace (I'm assuming the emperor lived in Kyoto, I think I can assume that), it is likely that Hirohito would have been killed, thus meaning he was no longer there to voice opposition, and quite probably no surrender for a long time. In fact, I doubt the war could have ended with the Japanese accepting defeat, but eventually as a draw or a cease fire.
I loved the scene where Oppie says to President Truman "I feel like I have blood on my hands". The look on Truman's face and reaction was downright evil. Gave me shivers..
Well, think of this. Oppenheimer felt like he killed a lot of people making the bomb. Truman pulled the trigger. Truman also had to find a way to end WW2. So, yes, Truman's 'Don't give me that' look and attitude might have been appropriate. It probably also gave Oppenheimer a way to move forward without feeling fully responsible too.
At the same time i agree with Truman. "no one is going to remember who build the bomb. They are going to remember the man who dropped it". He was absolutely right. You really think japanese were point fingers at oppie when it was dropped?...all the heads turned to Truman.
@@PrimitiveAK "No one is going to remember who built the bomb." -Harry "I've had lot of films made about me but none are as good as the IMAX movie named after you." S. Truman.
@@lornestein7248 not the exact quote that Truman said since that was from the movie but Truman was referring to the Japanese after the bomb was dropped. Japan only knew at the time who authorized it. So you’re kinda right in what you’re trying to say but you’re misinterpreting who the quote was directed towards.
The small flags waved in the auditorium after Japan’s surrender had 50 stars. Gawd that bothered me as larger flags were the accurate 48 star flags. Lazy prop master.
You state in the audio comment that Oppenheimer's father "fled" from Germany to the USA in 1888. What did he flee from? In the Kaiserreich founded in 1871 there was neither more nor less antisemitism than was in the USA. On the contrary, in the newly formed German national state there were enormous business opportunities also for Jewish people. Jewish people from Eastern Europe actually immigrated into Germany because of this. Oppenheimer himself regularly visited his father's relatives in Germany before 1933, and also studied in Germany himself. His relatives were maybe not as rich as his father, but also not doing badly. Please look more closely at the facts and avoid propaganda and stereotyping. Thank you!
Famous Jewish business families doing very well under the Kaiser include HAPAG CEO Albert Ballin, the Rathenau family who formed AEG, a major competitor of US Companies such as General Electric, and e.g. the Warburg family, bankers from Hamburg. Gerson Bleichröder was one of the most important financial supporters of Bismarck and his projects abroad!
I agree it was for all reasonable purposes, historically correct as far as it went. There were some things left out but I thought the movie was very good. I have watched, and own, every documentary DVD available on the subject of Oppenheimer and the Manhattan project and the following detonations of nuclear weapons around the globe. I was very influenced as a child by my uncle who was a isotope chemist at ORNL. He paid my way thru college and I spent most of my work career with NASA and WSMR as a contract engineer. As a young teenager, I spent the summers with my uncle in Oak Ridge, TN starting in 1963 and I remember my uncle very much disagreeing with Oppenheimer's statement of the physicist's knowing sin from the creation of the bomb. My uncle was taken directly out of college from the University of Alabama with his degree in chemistry and whisked off to the then being built, town of Oak Ridge. People of that era, the WWII days, were very dedicated to their work. My uncle died in 1972 at the age of 52 from a life dedicated to chemistry at ORNL. Possibly too much exposure to too many dangerous environments. They always wore dosemeters as was also their security badge. I remember seeing all this as a somewhat romantic time in life where technology and very bright people came together to build fantastic instruments and to end a war. There will always be debate as to whether or not the bomb should have been used on Japan. One thing that can be said for sure, not one American life was lost in those final times whereas a land invasion of Japan was estimated to lose as many as a million American servicemen.
@johncollins7062 No, I did not know of Mr. Nobles. I started at MSFC in 1970 and left there in 1976 for WSMR. There is a NASA site at WSMR where I worked that reports to Houston but I don't remember hardly anyone nowadays. I left WSMR in 1996 for a contact with DHS.
No, the fact that Oppenheimer makes the comment about his name very clearly shows that they had him explain the pronunciation because of him rejecting his being jewish.
@@gertjan3329Yes. RDJ also said that in his read, Strauss was the kind of man who would want everyone to know the correct pronunciation of his name or to remember to call him "Admiral Strauss."
5:03 In the film you can see a hand with black gloves push her head under the water in one shot with the next showing her drowning herself Perhaps Nolan was hinting at the assassination conspiracy?
Whether Japan would have surrendered was not quite as clear-cut as this commentary makes it out to be. In fact, when a certain faction of the Japanese Military got wind of efforts to negotiate peace with the US, a group of hardliners tried to kidnap the Emperor to prevent him from agreeing to it, though the plot was discovered and they were arrested. Meanwhile, Japan had 4 million troops stationed in the Japanese homeland itself prepared to fight to the death as they had proved they did in previous major battles that killed thousands of Americans such as the Marshall Island campaigns and Okinawa. The Japanese rulers were also training tens of thousands of civilians in warfare skills so the US would even have to face intense guerilla war upon invading Japan. Also, I wish the video, as well as the film Oppenheimer, would have mentioned that the US did not simply drop the bombs without warning, which is the impression the film gives as well as related commentary such as this video. In fact, the US gave the Japanese High Command a clear warning the US now had a super weapon that could destroy cities with a single bomb, but they ignored the warnings and continued to wage war. The US also dropped tens of thousands of leaflets onto the ten target cities warning the civilians the US was prepared to drop a super weapon on them which would kill them all, and urged all civilians to leave those cities. These warnings were also ignored.
Some bad history here. The worst at 9:30. Japanese surrender wasn't considered on just preserving the Emperor. Japan wanted to preserve their military establishment as well including their complete control of the government.
The bottom line is that all main-stream movies are, in the last analysis exactly that: movies. The ultimate, only criterion for success is whether they tell a good story. Think of any other (supposed) “historical” movie: to take some obvious examples “Amadeus”; “Belle of Amherst”; “Inherit the Wind”. Each might have been good - even great- movies but 1) any historical accuracy inevitably and necessarily 11:44 takes second place to its needs as a piece of entertainment; and 2) the vast majority of their viewers inevitably come away apparently truly believing that they now understand “the facts” supposedly depicted More seriously, because most of these viewer think they already understand the issues, they are all the more likely not to follow up by trying to learn what really happened. In short, not only is the real history obscured, but it _replaced_ by the story told in movie,
" More seriously, because most of these viewer think they already understand the issues, they are all the more likely not to follow up by trying to learn what really happened. In short, not only is the real history obscured, but it replaced by the story told in movie, " Excellent point .
I need to point out one thing. I adore "Amadeus"; it's a remarkable movie. But it's not at all very historically accurate. Especially compared to "Oppenheimer," which is far more so.
@@cherylhulting1301 : We’ll, yes and no. The point here, of course, is that while both films may be quite entertaining, _neither_ of them is particularly historically accurate. And, unfortunately, many (most?) viewers nonetheless come away from them apparently believing that they’ve actually learned some “history”.
@@introverse7167 Looking deeper into it I found out her apparent suicide has always been suspicious. Even in the movie, he was followed to the hotel and she didn't sign the note.
Something that the movie makes no mention of, that I think might influence people's impression of how Harry Truman reacts to Oppenheimer's feeling he has blood on his hands, is that Truman was a war veteran, having gone to Europe to fight in World War I. I think it puts his referring to Oppenheimer as a "cry baby" (which I understand he did in real life, calling him a "cry baby scientist" at one point) in perspective, since Oppenheimer had never so much as fired a shot in anger in his life while Truman had not just given the order to drop the bomb, but at one point personally commanded an artillery battery in action against German troops. Whatever you thought of Oppenheimer himself, it would make sense that Truman might think of that as a bad joke.
Excellent points. But Christopher Nolan clearly felt that there were political machinations behind the dropping of the atomic bombs (as do I). He presents Truman's reaction as a moment of ego, and in the movie it plays into Oppenheimer's increasing sense of dread about scientists having given the military and politicians enough rope to destroy us all. It's probably not a truly fair picture to Harry, but who knows? Truman didn't have Roosevelt's relationship with Stalin and the creation and dropping of the atomic bombs waa major muscle to flex on the international stage.
And couple of historical corrections. First, there’s a little evidence that the scientist at Los Alamos opposed using the bomb on Japan at the time. They were claims to have argued against it all seem to have appeared after the war was over, and the horrors of Hiroshima became widely known. It’s a lot like the officials that claim they were always against the Vietnam war when they were strongly supporting it up until the Tet Offensive. Secondly, once the purple and magic decrypts were declassified in the 1970s, it’s clear that Japan was not going to surrender even with an offer to keep the emperor. The supreme war council actually voted to continue the war even after Nagasaki and it was only the emperors personal intervention that turned things around. This is clear from the historical record it might’ve been debatable up until the 70s but the declassified records tell the story.
The use of Little Boy and Fat Man was instantly approved by the US government once Germany surrendered. Casualties in the Pacific theatre were appalling so an alternative to the scheduled invasion of Japan was chosen.
The debate over their intentions is more complex than that because it was not just the US vs Japan. They had been using the USSR as a way to discuss terms/as a mediary, at least that was their aim, not completely aware of all of the plans that the USSR had for them, though very aware there was a chance they would invade at some point, which was probably why they did it. There are also many who believe that the main issue at first was a miscommunication because of a fucked up translation. After the first bomb, they would have surrendered if they could have kept their emperor. Not only that, the atomic bomb was more destructive for the rest of the world in the long run than for Japan at the time. Because of the construction of Japan, fire bombing was destroying it at an insane pace. They actually had to direct bombers to stay away from the two cities they chose for the bombs, or it wouldn't have seemed that destructive, as a bunch of the city would have been destroyed already. Right after the second bomb, Russia invaded, no longer being an option for negotiations for one, and two, they were known for their brutality. Between Russia, which Japan had feared for a very long time, the US that was ritualistically slaughtering civilians and burning the cities to the ground, and a new weapon that had new catastrophic medical effects that they hadn't seen from a weapon before, the emperor made the decision. But the generals could have shut him down. The emperor staying in power was the one thing that kept the US from accepting, because how else would they show off their bomb on a bunch of citizens before anyone else? And in the end the emperor stayed for a while anyway. It was all stupid and a waste of human life. Children vaporized or killed slowly and painfully, then born with deformities, for nothing. Leading to a cold war of constant fear. Now tons of countries have nukes, and our tank piercing rounds and shit have radioactive material in them. People in places where we wage war have people suffering where we have murdered their families and left our military trash all over to poison them on top of it. Burn pits have also poisoned troops because of it if you don't particularly care about any "enemies." Our fight with the nazis was over. The fight with the Japanese was close to done. But we are too eager to destroy ourselves.
There's a really good biography of of Oppenheimer that is on PBS. that is about as good as I've seen it really tells all the facts about Oppenheimer. and has amazing footage to back it up.
I saw the movie yesterday & didn't like it. I was expecting more of science & his life than never ending courtroom dramas. New movie needs to be made from scratch. Only saving grace was Matt Damon with exceptional acting.
It's not a good movie at all. The timeline switches are the only one that try to hide how boring it really is. And for someone, who didn't read just one biograhy, the factual twists raised the hair on my neck. This could have been made MUCH MUCH better. I mean with a better screenplay.
The Trinity countdown nine - eight - seven ...etc. was shown on a Nixie tube display. Wikipedia says Nixie tubes weren't available until 1955 from the Burroughs corporation.
The color scenes were said by Nolan to be subjective where black and white was objective, so Oppenheimer's memory of the flags was from the point of view of his statement before the board inquiry regarding his security clearance, so he would have just injected 50 star flags into the memory.
If Japan was thinking of surrendering they would have surrendered the first time the super weapon of a kind no one has ever seen before was dropped..... instead Japanese military command risked waiting for the third one to be dropped before surrendering. If they lost the same number of military personal in a standard war they would have kept on fighting that is how close to surrendering they were, they were still hoping the west couldn't stomach the loss's while invading Japan so they thought they had some bargining power while they resisited surrendering. Their Emperor literally had to beg the military to surrender.
You missed perhaps the biggest thing that "Oppenheimer" totally glossed over. Klaus Fuchs was convicted of spying for the USSR in 1950, four years before the Oppenheimer security clearance hearings. Fuchs, who worked on the implosion device at Los Alamos, had passed to the Soviets the design for the Fat Man bomb with enough detail that the Soviets built an almost exact copy and detonated that in their first A-bomb test rather than their own design. The go-between between Fuchs and the Soviets WAS a communist and the Soviets had been actively spying in Los Alamos, so there was a valid reason to be concerned about Oppenheimer's prolonged association with multiple different communists. The movie barely mentions Klaus Fuchs and his conviction and does so in a way that the timeline was not clear.
But that's a stretch, unless Oppenheimer hired Fuchs directly himself. In the film he did not hire Fuchs. I also didn't feel confused about the timeline; it was clear from Oppenheimer's talk with Strauss that Fuchs' spying was verified after the war.
@@cherylhulting1301 Oppenheimer DID promote Fuchs to work on the Plutonium implosion device, Fat Man. The science of Little Boy, the Uranium gun device, was so well understood that it was used on Hiroshima without ever having testing it. There was no doubt that other countries would be able to build a gun device, and many eventually did. Fat Man was the difficult problem, so much so that the Soviets chose to use the design that Fuchs gave them rather than their own device. The point is that Fuchs was known to have spied for the Soviets BEFORE Oppenheimer's clearance review. At that time there WAS sufficient reason to doubt Oppenheimer.
Hiroshima is also beautiful. Ironically, it was chosen because it had not been bombed, thus, the US could easily tell how effective the atom bomb was by what was damaged.
Yes, Truly. That Film was extremely Well Done. The cast was amazing. Paul Newman as Groves nailed it. The Physics and the process of developing a workable implosion mechanism was very well portrayed. A truly great film. Another, was a joint Canadian/ Japanese production called Hiroshima. A very interesting film that gets into the political debate about the bomb, it’s use and development. Very well presented from the Japanese side as well. Great Japanese cast. Truman, was very well portrayed, I think by Kenneth Arnold. (?) Canadian Actor. Great great performance. Also touches on Jimmy Byrnes Sec of State and Defacto Vice President. Really a great find on DVD.
Nagasaki wasn’t the intended primary target for the second atomic bomb - that was Kokura. The third bomb would have been dropped on Kokura on either August 18th or 19th with the fourth and fifth in September. Twelve more would have been dropped on Kyushu and the Kanto plain around Tokyo in November 1945 and April 1946…
The 3rd bomb was a bluff. We had no more plutonium for several years and just claimed to have more bombs ready. The Japanese were tricked in this sense but then getting nuked prob. has that effect of panic
Actually, no. It gets few things wrong, has to condense some material for time or budget constraints, and if one understands the stakes involved, it's actually pretty riveting.
I really enjoyed the movie as a whole, although I think they did not do the famous “I have become death” line justice. I think first bringing up the line while he is having sex diminished its power. I think they did it to show that he read it in its original Sanskrit, but they could have just had them put the book down after he said he was learning to read Sanskrit. Then after the trinity test I think they should have used the full quote. “A few people laughed; a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad Gita; Vishnu is trying to persuade the prince that he should do his duty, and to impress him, takes on his multiarmed form and says, ‘Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.’ I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.”
I see what you mean, i think it could also have hit harder. But i think most of us knew that line prior to even watching the movie so thats why it seems off to have it mentioned in the beginning. But for Oppie, this phrase didnt mean as much to him at that time and Nolan wanted to show him knowing this phrase prior to the end of the film (would have been weird if he just said it out of nowhere). For the argument that this could have been something he said in a different scene, i see your point; however, the sex scene has a lot more meaning than most people are giving. This line also eludes to his troubling relationship with Tatlock and her unfortunate "demise". I think overall it was done well.
I wanted more science! Oppenheimer was a manager more than anything. Others had the breakthroughs and I wanted that as well. I would have loved a big screen representation of how the atoms and electrons were interacting.
I saw this yesterday, Aug 6th, on the 78 anniversary of the actual event. It was a long 3 hours and a very complicated move. These 12 min really helps me to comprehend what I saw. Only I don't know if I should have watched it before the movie, or after? But thanks,, you just let me get to sleep tonight.
Bruuuuuh, I thought Lawrence looked so familiar but for the life of me I couldn't place the actor while watching the movie. Josh Hartnett, wow.. well, makes sense, last movie I saw him in was probably Black Hawk Down, decades ago at this point. o.O
This piece (and the movie) really missed things about Kitty. She wasn't a housewife when she met Oppenheimer, though it was true that she was married. She was a graduate student studying biology and she later earned her degree in botany. (Oppie apparently had a habit of getting involved with female graduate students). Kitty reportedly used the latter skills in working with Oppie to study the effects of radiation on plant life in the area of NM after the Trinity test.
The movie goes so far to be accurate but I can’t figure out why they changed the final bomb assembly. Instead of the chain-hoist used to put the hundred-pound arming cylinder in, they show a couple of guys doing it by hand, which would be impossible as shown. Same problem with the assembling of the explosive blocks, which were almost as heavy as concrete but shown moved around by hand.
Easy. For dramatic effect. Doing it with machines removes a degree of trepidation that exists when human hands are much closer to it. He even changed why they chose Nagasaki. Not a big deal. Those are minor details.
I agree it wouldn’t matter much if they were just changing how stuff was moved around - but they’re also changing the physical properties of the materials used, changing the weight of uranium and explosives to a fraction of what they are. They could have still had two men realistically lower the hundred pound plug by having them stand directly above and using all four arms.
@@Real28 Using a machine could have turned it into a bigger deal. Its a huge metal device that spreads death, unmovable by hand. A heavy burden etc. A crane would have worked out fine. The sound of the winch taking its time could have been used for dramatic effect as well.
For me, there are two main ideas and concepts in this movie: It revolves around a man who created the atomic bomb. We get to witness his experiences, the process of its creation, and the various influences on him, such as his wife and more. The movie also delves into the broader societal perspective, where the entire world seems to blame this great scientist (we can view the world as a representation of Strauss himself). In the beginning, Strauss explicitly stated that he was not a scientist, and the film reflects on how the world, unable to create something similar, blames the genius who could potentially make a wrong decision but is unjustly judged. The brilliance of the last scene lies in the fact that it serves as a pivotal moment for both concepts. Strauss becomes completely obsessed with Robert, while Robert himself realizes the full implications of what he has created. This is why I believe it is a great movie
No single man created the atomic bomb. These pop movies just simply make the audience dumber by making a caricature of events as important as the creation of the bomb.
There are some questionable representations in this video's questioning of the accuracy of the film. It's pronounced Straws, not Strauss, which is clear enough if you see the film.
I was disappointed that this movie dealt more with the political/legal issues surrounding Oppenheimer. than it did the bomb and WW2. The movie was more of a biography about Oppenheimer, much different than the trailer depicted.
It's a biopic, not a movie solely about the Manhattan Project. Movies and documentaries have already been produced about the Project. With respect, it was called "Oppenheimer" for a reason.
The movie was good up to when the bomb went off. They could had made it 2 hours long instead of 3 hours. There was so much talking back and forth that I felt like leaving. I actually saw some getting up and leaving. No offense but not Nolans best.
Agreed. It was just too much arguing between who is communists and who is not. Too much flash backs, cut backs, fast dialogue and too many characters. And every character looked a like and I couldn't remember who is who.
In an interview he gave later, he says that the destroyer line, as well as another line from Hindu scripture, was running through his mind as he witnessed the test (although you’re right that the actual words he said out loud were “It worked, I guess”
I love the subtle hint at a possible murder, not suicide when Oppenheimer tells Kitty about his lovers death. you see her drowning herself, and the camera goes back and forth between him and her, and eventually you see a glimpse of a gloved hand on the back of her head.
I feel like a big point people miss is the fact that Oppenheimer felt guilty because he thought he might have gotten her killed. He tells Kitty they found a drug that the CIA used in assassinations in Gene's blood, which means he was at least aware of the possibility that him going to see her during the manhattan project made her a target for assasination. Obviously the truth is lost to history, and I don't know if the real Oppenheimer was aware of this possibility, but it recontextualizes that whole scene in the movie where he's crying to Kitty about it.
'It was a typical Hollywood movie, great photography, quick scenes, sex etc. What it did lack was a leading figure that was interesting, Oppenheimer was without emotion a sort of empty can through most of the movie even his wife got tired of his act. The so called give and take between him and the Army Lt. Colonel wasn't much, the only memorial dialogue is with Truman and the interesting idea that Truman didn't believe that Russia could generate a Bomb. The underlying plot of forces out to discreet him came late and by that time his character and place in history seemed less secure anyway. The movie keep depending on other characters to make the movie interesting but it was to little to late.
How does it compare to the movie 'Shadow Makers' - made in 1989 I believe. That covers the same subject matter, and received very positive reviews. BTW - The title left to the shadows left behind by incinerated humans on walls and pavements when they interrupted the thermal radiation emerging from the bomb.
Not an accurate model of the high explosive internal components of the bomb. It was two layers, not one, and the 32 explosive lenses, the crucial, brilliant innovation, were not shown at all.
@@allangibson8494 the lenses were at the locations of the detonators, around the periphery of the sphere. They were in direct contact with the Duralumin shell, and reshaped the blast wave into an implosion just as it began to form. The team at Los Alamos regarded the lenses as part of the outer layer of explosives.
@@honorguardsfencingclub7322 The lenses weren’t. They were about halfway through the explosive stack to shape the shock front, slowing it at the middle and less at the wedge edge where they thinned to nothing. The blast wave needed room to form first. The shape of the lens is the single hardest part of the design of an implosion weapon.
@@allangibson8494 you are misinformed as to the placement of the lenses. The implosion wave needed to be shaped immediately upon ignition, not halfway through the process. Read "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes.
@@honorguardsfencingclub7322 You need a fast explosive followed by a slow explosive lens - the third stage is possibly optional but probably necessary to achieve the required compression. Any discontinuity and it fails…
One thing to point out that was incorrect. In the film the countdown clock for the Trinity test was shown using Nixie tubes. While cool looking, Nixie tubes weren't invented until the mid 1950's.
The film is very explicit that Oppenheimer never joined the communist party. He was drawn to communist ideas but stopped short of joining the party. He says as much when he first meets Chevalier and Jean Tatlock. I don’t know how you could watch the film and conclude that Oppenheimer was definitely a communist.
Japan wouldn’t surrender. They would fight well past defeat. There was even an plot to kidnapping, overthrow the emperor to keep the war going. It was thought that millions would have to die on both sides to win the war. The bomb had to be dropped. Plus, the firebombing of Tokyo killed more than the bombs on either city did. It was a demonstration of the technological advance that was meant to demoralized them. It almost didn’t work. Why? They didn’t surrender after Hiroshima. And it was only a week after Nagasaki, that they finally surrendered.
But in between the bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Soviets entered the Pacific War. They subsequently did major damage to Japanese troops in Manchuria. The Russian entry to the war was something the Japanese greatly feared. And with several good reasons. Moreover, the US's heavy conventional bombing was leaving thousands of Japanese homeless, and fall and winter would be coming. The naval blockade was also squeezing Japan effectively and robbing the country of necessary resources. With the added pressure of the Soviets Japan might end up fighting a two-front war. It's fair and necessary to ask whether, with these conditions, the bombs needed to be used at all.
Oppenheimer's brother was present at the Trinity test and stated in his book the only thing he said out loud after the detonation was "I guess it worked".
wow. This was the era of top secret papers to die for. All the real life 007 spy rings. Now, the classified documents are stuck in a bathroom. 😎 Great movie.
Noticed that every man with a tie is wearing the same style of shirt. A bright white pressed “spear point” collared shirt. Is this going to be the next big thing for today’s man?
No. It's evidence that we understand the power of these weapons and that we don't take that lightly. It's also healthy for us to review our history, acknowledge that we're the only country in the world that has used these weapons, and to carefully consider the reasons why they were used. This wasn't a straight military decision - there were a lot of politics involved too.
There is one subtle but major inaccuracy at the ending of the film: Ernest Lawrence shouldn't have been at Oppenheimer's award ceremony in 1963- he died 5 years prior to that.
Sorry, the Japan was going to surrender meme is nonsense. It comes from mistaking current Japanese culture, influenced by Shinto and the American occupation, for what existed during the war. The WWII Japanese were held in thrall by rabid death culture form of Bushido, metastasized from Samuri code. They had no intention of surrendering. They ran the war like there was no chance they could lose, ignoring international norms. Fortunately, enough of them maintained loyalty to the Emperor to end the war, though it was touch and go. Most of the Army high command died, by their hands or by execution.
If a chicken coop is on fire it makes no difference if the chickens don't want to come out. Japan was effectively ablaze and wiped out industrially already. The talk about sparing U.S. lives by making an invasion unnecessary is utterly false. From the excellent book Lawrence and Oppenheimer, by Nuel Pharr Davis, we read, "At that time nothing was going in or out of Japan. Their navy and merchant marine were all but wiped out. American cruisers and battleships were already bombarding coastal industrial facilities with impunity. The Japanese were desperately trying to distill fuel from pine trees, and reduced to eating bees. In other words, they were already utterly defeated, and no invasion was necessary whatsoever. The bombings were to prove what damage would truly result and to frighten the Russians, who had already, unbeknownst, been handed the Los Alamos secrets not just by Fuchs and the Rosenthals, but even more importantly by the teenaged (!) physicist Ted Hall who had been allowed to travel to NYC and was then ineptly tailed. In fact Stalin learned about the bomb long before Truman who never even knew what was going on until April 1945.
@@budlanctot3060 That's true enough (and the ultimate irony), but realistically, a lone-wolf event, and doubtful if the sub could ever have even been re-supplied. My father in law was on the heavy cruiser, U.S. Quincy, just one of several that were bombarding the hell out of coastal Japan, with no opposition whatsoever at the time, before the A-bombing. There was no need to invade whatsoever. They were finished.
" Sorry, the Japan was going to surrender meme is nonsense. " Yes this revisionist nonsense has its origins when Diplomat Sato was sent to Moscow to see if the Soviets were willing to negotiate terms . As the US was intercepting Japanese Communications , revisionists claim the US knew Japan was willing to surrender . But the " Big Six " never offered any terms . Sato told Togo one of the "Big Six " the best they could hope for is surrender , except to keep the Emperor . But This was rejected by Togo of the " Big Six. " The first date the Big Six offered to negotiate terms was on August 10th 1945 , when they responded to the Potsdam Declaration . .
Julius Oppenheimer did not have to flee Germany. In the 1880s Germany was one of the most progressive countries and most accepting of Jews. Julius and his family immigrated, as millions of people were doing at the time.
I saw that too. Jews comprised 0.5% of the German population in 1934. Today, they're 2% of the USA, four times the percent. Their presence in Germany was never a problem.
I’ll just mentioned, that if anyone is interested in seeing an actually pretty good (albeit fictionalized) piece about these issues, they should try to find the PBS multi-part series “Oppenheimer” (starring Sam Waterson) originally broadcast in, iirc, the ‘80s.
@@dougball328 said "But I think the broadcast in the '80s in the US was on PBS. BBC didn't have a channel here then." I'm sure you're right. I watched it sometime in the mid-late 80s and I'm sure I watched in on PBS for the reason you said.
A plot that covers very important historical facts and at the same time manages to deal with individual dramas; all this combined with a cast of high-level artists; a creative film direction, a director who is an expert at using different time perspectives when telling a story (like in Dunkirk); visual and sound effects that mobilize the viewer. Director Cristopher Nolan achieved everything that cinematographic art allows in what in my opinion is a masterpiece of contemporary cinema: Oppenheimer.
Actually "Oppenheimer" has a fairly high rate of historical accuracy. And it has seemed to inspire people to read more historical accounts of the period. I know I am, as I enjoy history in general.
So everything wrong seems to be that Looper wants a 3 hour movie to be even longer, so that more of the backstory to each and every character can be shown...
Where does it say that? This is not a criticism of the movie, but additional information so that audiences can differentiate between artistic depiction and historic fact.
can't understand the hype for this. A dull man with questionable morals for the time creates the worst weapon ever used and diverts from the book endlessly
