Thanks for sharing! Just watched the video and it's definitely a must-see for anyone serious about their pickleball game. Knowing the serve rules inside out is key to playing fair and staying competitive. Plus, with my Oliver-Sport paddle I can't wait to try this out!💪
it would be very helpful to demonstrate some illegal serves. I see people hitting backhands from about ankle height, lots of variations on the sidearm, etc. I just shrug and figure it gives me practice to try and field those, but I'd love to know how theyare done and if they are legal or not.
If it's a drop serve, the key constraints re: ball release and paddle motion are 1. release of ball must be visible (per video) 2. no assisted vertical motion, down (per video) OR up 3. no spinning of the ball. Other than that, server can pretty much do whatever they want. If it's a volley serve, there are no restrictions to whether the strike is forehand or backhand, but all other constraints apply, with the key ones being 1. paddle must angle down (zero degrees is not legal), ball must be struck below waist/navel, and there must be an upward swing.
It is really hard to tell if a serve is illegal. I did one a few years ago I did this one. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pzNh1DnXido.html
Thank you for this video. In rec play tonight I got told my serves were illegal. Hitting sideways not up on the ball. I don't think I am but someone pointed it out. I'll have to ask other people and work on this.
I would like everyone to play by the rules, frankly. Serving torpedo shots from a side stroke puts the opponent at an immediate disadvantage of having a more difficult serve to return. How is that 'fun'? It was made a rule for a reason.
That would be nice, but unfortunately that's the reality. My suggestion is meant to give players an option and decide how they want to control the only thing they can, themselves, not the other players on the court. Have fun!
I'm still seeing a few players in rec. play who continue to flip the ball upward with spin before hitting the ball. It's clearly illegal, but they get really ugly when challenged on their serves. I really wish the rules would explicitly call for a palm-down release of the ball with no hand movement whatsoever.
@@johnrankin8071 I'd like some clarification. I have heard that there is no explicit rule regarding the 'tossing up (without spin)' of the ball on the volley serve. Thus, because there is no rule against it, we are by default allowed to toss the ball as high as we want on the volley serve. Is that right?
Does that no propelling the ball down only apply to the drop serve and not the volley serve? And on the volley serve can I throw the ball up and then hit it as long as it makes contact below the naval? If not, can you cite the rule?
Yes the rules release only apply to the drop serve. Yes you can toss the volley serve up (PPA Pro Players have a new rule that bars that motion but it is not a USA Pickleball rule or applicable to any other PPA division other than Pro). Also the rule book was changed and no longer says Navel, it says waist- but yes it's essentially the same thing and is allowable.
We play rec play and even tho my husband and I are above the 3.25 level we enjoy playing with any level because we are really just out there for fun and activity. And introducing people to pickleball or giving them tips and encouragement is fun! We were playing with a woman who hadn't been playing very long and she was making a definite downward motion with her drop serve. We explained the rule to her and she tried to change but she really wasn't aware that she was doing it and couldn't figure out how to not do it. So after a few tries we just said "no problem, good enough" and kept playing. Because it definitely wasn't giving her an advantage and it wasn't worth trying to make her do it right. Plus, somethings in pickleball just take a little longer to get. One day after she has been playing long enough and has more of a sense of her body on the court it will just click and she will will get it. And we at least planted the seed with her that there is a certain way to serve. I am interested in that rule about the level of the paddle tho. There is one guy we play who has a wicked banger serve that threw me off at first. I think he was hitting the ball side on. But his advantage didn't last long. At first I thought I needed to step way back to receive his serve and he was always able to place it right at the line but after it bounced it was still traveling so fast that I had trouble hitting it. Then I figured out that if I stood right at the line, instead of back it confused his ball placement and it would always be out. So I completely shut down his serve and he just kept doing it. He didn't even try to change it. Personally I love the volley serve. My serve usually confuses people because I lob it quite high and land it right at the line. And at my level most people don't know what to do with that. I've only ever played one person who shut down my serve and I had to start working on an alternative serve for that guy lol. I'm sure if I advanced to higher levels I would probably have a hard time with that serve but it's working for me now :)
Thank you for sharing! Btw the most important part of the serve is that it's deep (4 feet or less from the baseline). While your serve may change as you advance the lob serve is a great one to have
@@Puckb0y I meant a downward motion with her hand that was holding the pickleball...as in she was pushing it down for a few seconds before she let it go.
@@BetterPickleball thanks for that feedback. Sometimes people try to "correct" my serve on days when I am not playing my best. But I stick with it, because if my health cooperates and I am playing well, my lob serve just works.
@@AmandaJuneHagartycongratulations for keeping your focus. For most players they spend too much time chasing a shot that has little impact on their overall game. As an example would you win a few more rallys and get a few more errors if you had a DEEP (keyword) spinning serve, probably. But why devote that type of time to something when you could be focusing on a killer deep return, a great block volley or an amazing punch volley that would help you win far more rallys. Way more "bang for the buck" if a player develops those shots. Have fun!😃
So... am I understanding correctly? With a drop serve, I can swing the paddle in ANY manner I choose? Side arm, wrist angle, paddle angle, etc??? Only with a volley serve it matters???
My understanding is you can let the ball bounce more than once on the drop serve also. I've been using this for a little extra time to step back and then step in to the serve.
Thank you so much for mentioning that rec play is for FUN. Unfortunately there are some players that act like total jerks and take the fun out of pickleball
I appreciate all your video's and tips. For clarification, when hitting a volley serve, the paddle can start in a downward direction but upon contact with the ball it needs to be lifting up. Many professional players that use the cut serve always start with their paddle heading down but changing to an upward direction when making contact with the ball.
i agree that rec play should be all about the fun however, illegal serves, foot faults and all other rules should be obeyed by all. If not than why have a video on legal serves and new rules?
I agree that we have rules for a reason, but at the same time, I've seen time and time again how players react when someone else calls them for a rule violation. My suggestion is to weigh the options and the best way to approach the person if that's what you decide to do. As an example, when it comes to a line call, I will always overturn a line call in my opponent's favor if they are adamant that my call was incorrect, even though it is in the rules that my call would stand. (Yes, I realize that it's also in the rules that you can overturn your own call, but that's not the point.) If I maintain the call, they are angry. Could I be wrong about the call? Possibly. Is it worth it? That's up to the individual players, but sometimes I think we need a little perspective. For me, I just ask myself if I want to be right or I want to be happy. 😀Have fun out there
@@BetterPickleballI find it impossible to be happy on a court if an opponent cheats and continues to cheat. After the point is over, I tell the other player “By the way, your serve was illegal. Maybe you didn’t know the rule but it’s …. Next time you’ll lose the point.” If the opponent hits another illegal serve, I stop play, call “illegal serve” and either call second serve or side out. It’s easy to say preserving the peace is the right thing to do. But sometimes doing the right thing isn’t easy and requires courage. To paraphrase 18th century Anglo-Irish politician and political philosopher Edmund Burke, all that it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to stand back and do nothing. Too many people these days encounter dishonesty and do nothing. Shouldn’t we try to change that trend any way we can?
I'm watching a match between Christine Maddox and Catherine Parenteau (1/11/24). Parenteau has a conventional serve but I do not see any upward trajectory of Maddox's paddle on her serve. Do the pros follow the same rules?
Here are the rules A proper drop serve includes the following elements: 4.A.8.a. The server must release the ball from one hand only or drop it off the paddle face from any natural (un-aided) height. 4.A.8.b. When releasing the ball, the ball shall not be propelled in any direction or in any manner prior to striking the ball to make the serve. 4.A.8.c. The restrictions on the Volley Serve in Rule 4.A.7 do not apply to the drop serve.
@@BetterPickleball So many people propel the ball with the bounce serve. It’s crazy ridiculous. Again, supposed rec play but the ‘better’ players are the ones blatantly propelling the bounce. This is in Chicago so be ready when you visit and decide to play.
In rec play, on the volley serve, can the player release the ball upwards, i.e. a slight toss upwards versus catching the ball by releasing with a downward turned hand?
Hello CJ, thank you for the informative video. I would like to point out one inaccuracy. As per definition 3.A.40, the serving area is "behind the baseline and *on* and between the imaginary extensions of the court centerline and each sideline." This means that you may be touching the side and centre lines, but not the court *outside* of them.
@@BetterPickleball I agree. There is no practical benefit to serving that extra inch over. Best to stand in a place where it's *clear* that you are abiding by the rules 😄
You're right. As I stated at the beginning of the video, there were no new serve rules other than language. That doesn't mean that there are no questions about the existing serve rules and that was the point of the video. Thanks for watching.
An I throw the ball UP on a VOLLEY serve before I hit it? Assuming I still hit it below the waist and upward motion and all that. Like, can I toss it up to my head level as long as I smack it upward below my waist?
Question, Can you toss the ball slightly into the air during the volley serve, use an upward stroke and contact the ball below your waist? Is that legal? Can I toss it up in the air while putting some spin on the ball and rip an upward stoke with top spin or side spin?
Rule 4.A.7.c states that volley serve contact must not be above the waist. It does not say contact must be below the waist. waist-level contact is legal.
Can you talk more about the hand with the ball in it? You can't toss the ball up correct or can you drop it and then have your hand go up or do you have to have the hand go down the entire time.
In the drop serve, it is simply a drop you are not allowed to toss. Your hand can go down after the toss. The rules for the volley serve are different. You can toss the volley serve, (with the exception of the pro division of PPA Tournaments)
I’m confused regarding the drop serve. I thought I read where you CANNOT hold the ball up above your head to drop it. I thought it had to be approximately waist or hip level?
Thanks for the update! There was a rule common to both serves that the ball must be "clearly released" from the server's hand before contact with the ball, such that the receiver and the referee (if there is one) can see it. Meaning, no hitting the ball out of your hand! Is this rule still there for 2024? This rule is one I see violated often in rec play. I don't have a problem with that when a player is using it because they have trouble timing the drop-and-hit, but I don't like it when a player uses it to put spin on the ball. I'll usually "helpfully" let them know about the rule after the game is done. Most have never heard of the rule.
You are correct, it's the same rule. 4.A.6. In officiated matches, the server’s release of the ball must be visible to the referee and receiver. In matches without a referee, the server’s release of the ball must be visible to the receiver. There is no fault if the release is not visible to the referee or receiver
Yes, I thought that rule should have been not applicable to the drop serve. Interesting though that in the video she said that the new rule clarification is that the receiver has to be able to see the ball in the server's hand before the drop. Like you said, unless you're dropping it from two inches above the court, it will be visible. LOL.
@@davelimbaugh3730 agreed. I've been "called" by others on applying "pre-spin" to the ball when releasing it to hit a volley-serve but I definitely don't... I just drop the ball and hit it with slice if I want to. I think it's really hard to tell if a player is dropping the ball with any pre-spin unless they are doing the Zane toss up with spin (which is now illegal).
As a qualified USAP referee, I feel I need to weigh in for clarification. I am also a PPR certified coach so both of those credentials aid me in my job. I do not know the credentials of the presenter in this video, but I feel strongly that we professionals should not be presenting information that is an interpretation of the rules. At 3:00-ish the presenter states that the server cannot touch the imaginary extensions of the centerline nor the sideline. She also states that the server’s FEET have to be inside the area described. Both of these statements are inaccurate. For what they are worth, here are the clarifications: Regarding the “box” within which your feet have to be placed: At the moment of contact Only ONE foot has to be on the playing surface (outside the court) and NEITHER foot may be OUTSIDE the imaginary lines described by the extension of the center line and the sideline (Rule 4.A.4). Please feel free to contact me
Thank you for reaching out. While the words I chose in the video do not match the rule book exactly the application is consistent. You are correct, you can stand on the extension of the line but as you point out you cannot touch the outside of the line. Considering that the lines are only two inches wide and your opponent is 40 feet away, most matches are not referred and there is little advantage to that position even though it's legal, it's much easier for most rec players to simply think about standing inside the line. The same goes for the feet behind the baseline. Yes, one foot could be up in the air but again for practical application it's easier for most to think of the feet behind the baseline at contact.
So the rule about the below the wrist thing does it matter what grip you serve with or no does that rule basically force you to serve with a continental grip or no ? I can serve either way but prefer to serve with my regular western forehead grip once I'm on the tour .
Yes you are correct. The rule says 4.A.4.a. At least one foot must be on the playing surface behind the baseline. 4.A.4.b. Neither of the server’s feet may touch the court on or inside the baseline. Meaning one foot must be touching the court and the other foot could be up in the air over the baseline, (which is a part of the court) but not touching it.
Are you allowed to “straddle” the imaginary line? For example can you have one foot in the serving zone and one foot touching the ground outside the serving zone (but not inside the court)?
Rule 4.a.4.c Neither of the server’s feet may touch the playing surface outside the imaginary extension of the sideline or centerline. I have a hard time imagining how (or why) someone would try to straddle it but maybe they used to be in Cirque du Soleil 😂
@@BetterPickleballhaha agreed. Sometimes I see a player who will have one foot inside the serving area and one foot hovering outside the serving area… thanks!
As long as you have at least one foot on the court behind the baseline and you are not stepping inside the court (including the baseline) you can be moving at the time you hit the ball.
In volley serve, can the server throw the ball up a little bit, as they do in tennis but not that far, and then hit it on its way down? This has been an issue where I play.
That's a fine line. Here's the rule. 4.A.5. The serve shall be made with only one hand releasing the ball. While some natural rotation of the ball is expected during any release of the ball from the hand, the server shall not impart manipulation or spin on the ball with any part of the body immediately. I think it's a gray area because at least to me, a release does not look like a toss.
Player releases the ball in an upward motion with one hand, and the ball floats up to head level, with zero spin, (think open hand ping pong serve). Ball falls below players waist, where contact is made, around thigh level, in an upward swing with no part of the paddle head above the wrist. Please explain how that is a 'gray area' given the exact wording of the rules?
@@ConnectCommit How to "release" a ball in an upword motion? Need to define the word "release". Another one is the server shall not impart "manipulation" or spin on the ball ..., what is the definition of manipulation?
@@yw2001 try it this way ... the rules make it perfectly clear that a Drop Serve 'shall not be propelled (thrown) downward or tossed or hit upward with the paddle.' Concise and completely unambiguous. There is no such language for the Volley Serve.
Some of the wording changed but nothing substantial, which means it's a great time to clear up the serve rules since there always seems to be so much confusion around them
this is so funny to me. we have played pickleball since the 70's. and the only way we served was the drop serve...I am not sure when the volley serve was started ??? drop serve is so much better
I reposted this to our Club forum and a player commented that these "changes" are only for PPA. Can you verify? if that is incorrect, where would I find the proper information to clarify for our members? Thanks in advance!
These are the rules from USA Pickleball. As mentioned previously, the wording I used in the video is slightly different from some of the terms in the book, e.g I said navel versus waist but the application is accurate.
Hey Mike, you are correct. The rule says 4.A.7.a. The server’s arm must be moving in an upward arc at the time the ball is struck with the paddle, but since they are attached 😀
The 2024 rule I read said on a volley serve that the server arm must be moving in an upward arc when it strikes the ball. So, you can move the arm down to hit a slice or spin as long as at the point of contact, your arm is moving with an upward arc. I understood you to say this was not legal.
Just a little clarification . Your feet do not necessarily have to be behind the base line when the paddle contacts the ball while serving . It's that your feet may not be touching the base line or court when you contact the ball . A foot , for example, may be directly above the base line or the court itself as the paddle contacts the ball , just not actually touching either until after the paddle contacts the ball . This is because , just like the Kitchen & Kitchen lines , the courts & baselines are only 2 dementionable , not 3 as the plane of the goal line is in football . Some servers take advantage of this fact and are already leaning over the court when they serve enabling them to be just a little bit closer to the receiver of the serve as their paddle contacts the ball . Ofcourse , that server ought to then immediately move back a step or two again because of the two bounce rule .
You are correct you could have one foot behind the baseline and the other in the air but for most players it's simply easier to think of the feet being behind the baseline for practical application
I read somewhere that one of the 2024 serve rule changes was that the palm of the hand releasing the ball had to be facing down, upon release. True or false?
False. Here's what the rule says for a Volley Serve. 4.A.5. The serve shall be made with only one hand releasing the ball. While some natural rotation of the ball is expected during any release of the ball from the hand, the server shall not impart manipulation or spin on the ball with any part of the body immediately prior to the serve. Exceptions: Any player may use their paddle to perform the drop serve (see Rule 4.A.8.a). and here are the rules for a drop serve. 4.A.8. The Drop Serve. The drop serve is made by striking the ball after it bounces on the playing surface and can be made with either a forehand or backhand 20 USA PICKLEBALL Official Rulebook (2024) motion. There is no restriction how many times the ball can bounce nor where the ball can bounce on the playing surface. A proper drop serve includes the following elements: 4.A.8.a. The server must release the ball from one hand only or drop it off the paddle face from any natural (un-aided) height. 4.A.8.b. When releasing the ball, the ball shall not be propelled in any direction or in any manner prior to striking the ball to make the serve.
Thanks for the video, CJ! Are you familiar with Padel? I'm a padel player but I just started playing some pickle. Based on what you've explained, it seems to me that a padel serve would be 100% legal in pickle, yes? (As long as I'm just dropping, not throwing the ball down)
Welcome to pickleball. I've never played padel but it looks like a lot of fun. I watched a quick padel serve video here on YT. It appears the padel serve is similar to the pickleball drop serve. The only thing I think you'll find is the ball doesn't bounce anywhere near as high. 😂(btw we have a free video course for beginners at betterpickleball.com/beginners)
Just a heads up. When you were describing the positioning of the servers feet when serving, you stated that the server's feet can not come in contact with the imaginary extension of either the center line or the side line. This is factually wrong. Below is the rule that governs the feet in relation to the imaginary extension of the center & side lines. 4.A.4.c. Neither of the server’s feet may touch the playing surface outside the imaginary extension of the sideline or centerline. Hopefully your viewers review the comments in order to understand this properly or that you raise the correction in your next video.
Thanks for shaing. You're correct, the rule is written exactly as you have shared. However, since the line itself is only 2 inches wide for most players, it would be impossible to tell from the other side of the net if the foot is actually on the line or touching outside of the line since the line is so small. In reality, it's good practice to just avoid the line as nothing is gained by getting that close to a rule violation. 😀
It sounds like you're talking about a drop serve. If that's the case that paddle can move in any direction the player would like so yes it could have topspin on it.
These 2024 serve rules look the same as 2023. "Cleaning" up the language didn't change the rules. I kept waiting for something different for 2024. Did I miss something?
Hi Kathleen, you didn't miss anything. As I mentioned at the beginning of the video, the rules committee simply clarified some of the rules. The purpose of the video was to clarify the rules for the current year, which yes are still essentially the same but players always seem to have a number of questions. Thanks for watching.
On the volley serve rule 4.A.7.a. The server’s arm must be moving in an upward arc at the time the ball is struck with the paddle. So no, it can't move high to low on the volley serve
@@brucehawkinson8901it is not physically possible to move up and down simultaneously. It is only the motion as you contact the ball that is considered. You may easily get sidespin + topspin with an upwards motion, but tough luck to get backspin in a way that will put the ball over the net.
Playing golf with a friend, he’s in sand trap and is grounding his club. We tell him he can’t ground his club in the sand. He says, “that’s a stupid rule”. Ok, BUT ITS A RULE.
I appreciate you wanting adherence to the rules, but these are two completely different situations. Unless it’s extremely obvious and the majority of the time it is not you would have to put a serve on video to actually tell if it’s illegal. This is one of the reasons you don’t see it called in most tournaments. Even skilled refs would have a hard time making the call. It’s no where near as obvious as seeing the club touch the sand. One other differentiating factor is that during rec play often you are not playing with friends, they are acquaintances or you may not know them at all. A friend is much more likely to react differently than someone you don’t know. My point is as simply weigh your options :)
That’s a rule that actually is designed to prevent a player from gaining an unfair advantage, as to the nature of the sand under the ball. The rule in golf that I break, and that I think most other golfers, who are not rules gunners also break, is what to do upon loss of the tee shot. Officially, the player is supposed to go back to the tee box and re-tee his or her drive. However, that adds multiple minutes to the hole and on a crowded day is flat out inconsiderate to other golfers on the course. Instead, I drop another ball where I think it ended up or last was in bounds and play that ball as my third shot.
I have seen where declaring the opponents serve was illegal (in rec play) made the opponent so paranoid about his serve that it really messed up the opportunity to have a decent game. So it you really are concerned for the player, mention it after the game(s) is over.
That's good advise. I usually tell them that if they want to eventually play in tournaments they might want to adjust their serve to avoid having to "re-learn" a legal serve
Can a player serving from the right hand side of the court, standing close to the center line , drop the ball in his partners side of the court and hit the ball across the center line with his arm extended ? Is that legal?
It doesn't matter where the ball lands on the surface. At the point of contact the player who is serving needs to have their feet behind the baseline and inside and extension of side and center lines
It doesn't matter where the ball lands. At the point of contact the servers feet need to be behind the baseline and inside an extension of the side and center lines
an obvious illegal serve bugs me. why not learn and adhere to the rules? most people don't want to be a jerk about it but to let it go will just make correction tougher and maybe more embarrassing to the server.
I agree with you. But when a serve is addressed, I usually get an argument from the server about it being legal. If enough people call out the serve then they might change it
Here's the case I'm making for not calling it out if the serve does not give them a distinct advantage. Rec play is for fun and most players play with the same group consistently. Why create tension if there is no distinct advantage to the server? How many times has someone called what they believe to be an illegal serve (again, it's pretty hard to tell without putting it on video) and it often leads to a disagreement with the server.
That's my point if there is no distinct advantage why argue? I've rarely seen a call for an illegal serve change the player's serve unless they simply didn't understand the rule. I like to focus on what I can control as a player, which is me. If I feel that the serve is illegal and giving the server a big advantage I don't play with them.
Because most of the time it’s not obvious and someone who actually doesn’t know the rules is trying to call you out for a legal serve in rec play and making everyone have a bad time when it should be fun
Hi, I REALLY like your videos - they are super helpful and very well made! I do have to disagree with you on one point in this one though, with a caveat. Frist the caveat: I 100% agree that rec play should be for fun. No one likes a player who argues every call or plays like the game is a million-dollar world championship. That said, you do also want to improve as a player. I can’t agree that if a person is OBVIOUSLY serving illegally, you should not say anything if “it doesn’t give them a big advantage.” Where do you draw the line on that? And how do you define “big advantage?” Certainly, the vast majority of players play rec games (vs organized tournaments), and our level will never improve if we don’t do our best to adhere to the rules - on both sides. Of course, you should say it friendly and polite, but you should point it out, becuase the next time they are playing, their opponent might not be.
It's ok to disagree and thanks for the thoughtful explanation. Our basis for this discussion is that it is very difficult to call a serve illegal from the opposite baseline (we've got another video coming on that one) unless it is blatant and that calling an illegal sere is often contentious. In Rec play situations, sometimes it's better to be happy than to be right. :)
please double check the foot placement requirements during the serve, particularily how many feet must be on the ground at the point of contact. thank you.
Thanks Mike. You are correct one foot needs to be on the ground the other can be in the air (can't be touching the court) but that would have probably created a 10-minute video if I went into that much detail. Not to mention a lot of players brain doing backflips😂
On the drop serve you are not allowed to toss the ball up either. They really did not change anything with the actual drop serve. Now with the volley serve you are no longer able to hold the ball above your waist or drop it from above the waist. There should be no upward motion with the ball hand when making contact with the ball. Has to be at the waist or lower. Ben John's was called twice on a service fault. When bringing his paddle up to strike the ball his ball hand rose up above his waist. Nothing hard about this serve, I been doing it that way since I started playing. Keep my hand at waist level and let the ball go and swing upward with the paddle and hit the ball. Meets correct service technique.
A lot of people confuse the waist level with the hip level. The rules refer to the waist level at ball contact and not the hip. Obvious for people but not all, the waist is above the hip. Hitting the ball when the paddle is lower than the wrist is very difficult to judge for referees, not to mention players that are standing at the other side of the net. I have a personal opinion that the majority of non-pro level players cannot hit a good top spin volley serve without preventing the highest point of the paddle to stay below the wrist level consistently or even once.
4.A.8. The Drop Serve. The drop serve is made by striking the ball after it bounces on the playing surface and can be made with either a forehand or backhand motion. There is no restriction how many times the ball can bounce nor where the ball can bounce on the playing surface. A proper drop serve includes the following elements:
I was called for illegal serves just today. I just thought my opponents were over exaggerating things but I’m just out there to be active and get fit so I just switched over to the drop serve. Problem solved.
@BetterPickleball 5:00 mark regarding the serve (Rant): I'm getting this garbage claptrap from a few of the players at my club. fwiw, I'm a former collegiate tennis player, ncaa all-American, who knows full well about using a racket to hit a ball a waist level. I've only been playing PB for 6 months now, but of the 30 some odd players at my club, I'm clearly the best player. Because we play doubles it can be fun and challenging for me from time-to-time. However, a few of the ninnies think they're doing me a favor by letting me know that my "serve might be illegal." I think that because my serve is aggressive and fast, and hard for them to return, they just knee-jerk think it's "illegal." I let them know that I've analyzed my serve in hi-definition, slow motion video AND consulted with several teaching professionals who all say that my serve is perfectly legal and very aggressive and very good. I recommend to them that they watch professional pickleball players serve and then come back to me and try to tell me how my serve is illegal. (Rant over) 😉
No you can't toss it up. Here are the rules for the drop serve. A proper drop serve includes the following elements: 4.A.8.a. The server must release the ball from one hand only or drop it off the paddle face from any natural (un-aided) height. 4.A.8.b. When releasing the ball, the ball shall not be propelled in any direction or in any manner prior to striking the ball to make the serve. 4.A.8.c. The restrictions on the Volley Serve in Rule 4.A.7 do not apply to the drop serve.
If you look at the serve in slow motion he fulfills all three of the requirements for the volley serve, upward motion, Paddle is not above the wrist and contact is below the waist (but it's close)
Answer: The truth is, some of McGuffin’s serves are not legal. Refs in pro matches have fairly limited focus to their officiating. Their main priority is starting and stopping the game at the appropriate times, calling score, and watching for kitchen violations. Most of the time when asked about an out call, the refs will say that they did not see it. I have probably watched a couple of hundred hours of professional pickleball matches on RU-vid over the past three years and I don’t believe I have ever once heard a ref call an illegal serve.
@@BetterPickleballIf you are hitting a topspin drive as your serve, as seems to be very common, part of the racquet head is going to be above the wrist at the actual point of contact because your wrist is going to be level or nearly level at the point of contact. I’m sorry but the fact that people compete for prize money under a set of rules that is not actually enforced is so crazy to me.
What's up with your quiz btw. I tried it and the summary results made no sense whatsoever. They didn't reflect the answers I had given at all and were saying, for example, I needed more confidence and practice to join in with the higher level players etc. Was it all based on the first questions saying I've been playing for under a year and ignoring the rest, seemed like it?
The quiz isn't sciefitic so they are times it get's the outcome wrong and this sounds like it was one of them. Hopefully you found the resources on the answer page helpful. If not feel free to reach out to us at support@betterpickleball.com. We are happy to help
@@mattc3581 that can be a dilemma. However, you can practice footwork and stroke mechanics at home and a wall is an amazing practice partner. Never judges and is always available. It's all about the reps. 😃
Illegal serves: Play the game, and have fun! Then take him behind the fence after the game is done and beat...... :) I had it happen to me last week. Had I seen this video before I would have challenged him on his blatant illegal serves. Thank you!
The only way to fix the waist level serve, which many pros break periodically and Ard never called is to force or create a uniform belt or sorts that marks the belly button of the person. That gets kind of personal so I don't think it will happen. But the rule achieves the objective of taking some advantage away from the server and giving it to the receiver. So no need to really harp on this too much.
Those kinds of « subjective » rules that would need a video slow motion playback to really evaluate are a source of constant debates. Those rules are made only to slow down the pace and give the lesser players time to react and keep the exchanges going on. But that’s the spirit of this game. Allowing slower and older people to keep playing a fun and adapted racquet sport. But having to check the angle of the wrist or height of the hip or vector of the racquet head at contact is not fun.
@@Paul_Ridgeway I am 63 yo and play single tennis 5 hours every week at a 4.5 + level. I have played pickleball a couple of times and it was pretty fun indeed. But playing at non competitive level pickleball would certainly not keep me in very good shape and maintain my cardiovascular health up there. So you probably would not play with me cause I would be that hard serve guy body aiming adversary. 😉
3:05 this information about foot placement is incorrect. You stated the feet cannot be on the imaginary extension lines during the serve. This is not true, the feet can be on those lines but not over those lines. These lines are the outside perimeter of the service court. Here are the rules: 4.L. Service Foot Faults. During the serve, when the ball is struck, the server’s feet shall: 4.L.1. Not touch the area outside the imaginary extension of the sideline. 4.L.2. Not touch the area on the wrong side of the imaginary extension of the centerline. Additionally only one foot needs to be behind the baseline upon contact not both feet.
To me, very similar technique to serving in table tennis. Er, I mean ping pong. Just hit up instead of hitting down onto table. So different where big boy tennis serving is all about pace, spin, slice, flat, and inside out. And changing speed that disrupts timing. Years of practicing to master.
2 questions for you: 1. Can you toss the ball up on a volley serve as long as you follow all the rules you outlined and of course without any spin? Second question: Can you serve the ball off your ball hand? Meaning can you hang into the ball on a volley serve until the last split second when you hit it essentially hitting the ball off your hand? One version of this would be to completely drop it right before impact and the other being actually making contact while the ball is still in your hand.
That's a fine line on a toss. Here's what the rule says 4.A.5. The serve shall be made with only one hand releasing the ball. While some natural rotation of the ball is expected during any release of the ball from the hand, the server shall not impart manipulation or spin on the ball with any part of the body immediately. To me a release and a toss are two different things but unless it's spinning it most likely wouldn't be called. As to your second question, at some time you have to release the ball from your hand otherwise, it would hurt like crazy. 😂
I can hit the ball off my serving hand while releasing at the last second. I roll the paddle as I do it to get spin and can make the ball hit in the service area and hug the ground closely It is very hard to get at if I do it right. People say it is an illegal serve but based on everything I read it doesnt seem that it is.
@@BetterPickleballPlayer releases the ball in an upward motion with one hand, and the ball floats up to head level, with zero spin, (think open hand ping pong serve). Ball falls below players waist, where contact is made, around thigh level, in an upward swing with no part of the paddle head above the wrist. Please explain how that is a 'gray area' or 'fine line' given the exact wording of the rules?
@@ConnectCommit that’s my point. From how I envision it, the situation you describe sounds like it is propelled upward. Which is not legal and is covered under 4.a.8.b. But from 40 feet away that may not be discernible. I have seen releases that look illegal from the other side of the net but when I see them closer they fall within the rules.
Hey Jeff, you are correct the rule says 4.A.4.a. At least one foot must be on the playing surface behind the baseline. 4.A.4.b. Neither of the server’s feet may touch the court on or inside the baseline. From a practical stand point it's easier for most players to think that their feet need to be behind the baseline at the point of contact.
The first thing a player needs to do is recognize the spin. The motion the player makes and by watching the ball particularly the holes on the ball will help a player identify spin. This might help. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-j_bHlScZzL8.htmlsi=RlSTD50RyDGO1b9K
The new video on the new rules is incorrect concerning where the feet may legally be. The feet may in fact touch or be on the imaginary extension of the center or end line. They may not be over it or beyond those lines. A ball hit for example and landing on a center or end line is considered in bounds or in the box it is being hit to. In much the same way a foot on the imaginary extension of the center or end line is also considered in the box from which you are serving. Thus a legal serve. Hopefully the makers of the video will review this comment and make a correction.
While the words I chose in the video do not match the rule book exactly the application is consistent. You are correct, you can stand on the extension of the line but as you point out you cannot touch the outside of the line. Considering that the lines are only two inches wide and your opponent is 40 feet away and there is little advantage to that position even though it's legal, it's much easier for most players to simply think about standing inside the line.
Good point. Also, the video demonstrating the position of the center- and end-line extension was misleading. It showed a pale orange line, about one foot wide for the extension. That should only be as wide as the actual line. Then the final picture shows the orange area between the lines ending about 6 inches inside what should be depicted as the proper serving area.
Ugh...when you say rules don't apply in rec play everything goes out the window! The ball can hit the kitchen line, you can stand outside the invisible lines to serve, you can step on the baseline, you can catch the ball and say it was going out, you can propel the ball down on a drop serve, you can ignore the rules for the volley serve...on and on! Seriously, is it really any fun playing without rules? When you throw out one or two rules you might as well throw them all out.
We didn't say that rules don't apply to rec play. What we said is these faults are very difficult to call and in a rec play situation there are a variety of ways to handle it. One of those since most of the time you can't be certain that the serve is illegal is to continue t play.
@@BetterPickleball Thank you for the clarification. That makes better sense. I was directed to this video by someone who understands you to be saying the rules do not apply in rec play.
I think you over simplified the drop serve by just focusing on the drop and saying thats it. The same rules apply to the drop serve as do the volley serve when it comes to low to high paddle motion, position of the wrist and striking the ball below the waist. Just my observation and opinion, otherwise good instructional video👍🏻
Hello. Appreciate the comment. The 3 rules of the volley serve do not apply to the drop serve. This is why some players advocate adopting the drop serve as the only serve - to get rid of disagreements over whether the 3 rules have been followed.
My suggestion was to weigh the options before saying anything because it is very difficult to determine if it is indeed an illegal serve without putting it on video. That's one of the reasons you don't see it called in most tournaments but referees who are much more qualified to actually make the call. :)
I too appreciate a reminder that rec play is supposed to be fun. However, there is a particular player that serves a screwball serve. I know that the new rules say that you cannot manipulate the ball to cause it to spin on a serve, but to slice it in such a way to cause the spin, seems illegal as well. There is the ace serve that I'm totally fine with and then there is the screwball serve that makes me want to throw my racket at the opponent.
It is a legal serve. Either get better or play with people who are worse. At the higher levels these slice/screwball serves are barely ever used because everyone knows how to play them easily. They can be an absolute weapon though at lower levels, as you have learned.
@@BetterPickleball taller people still have the advantage. Although taller (and younger, fitter, etc, etc, etc) people have the advantage in many different sports, it is what it is.
You're right. As I stated at the beginning of the video, there were no new serve rules other than language. That doesn't mean that there are no questions about the existing serve rules and that was the point of the video. Thanks for watching.
@@BetterPickleball it's misleading because when you skip through the intro and look for the points the video content doesn't match the title. Maybe be a bit more direct with your titles and your vids won't get down votes
This way of hitting top spin is a poor technique, so they are not going to have a very good serve compared to hitting top spin from low to high with wrist above the racquet.
A couple of things you say are wrong: You say that the feet have to be within the imaginary extensions of the sideline and centerline. They can be ON those lines. You say that the paddle head has to be below the wrist. The paddle head cannot be ABOVE the highest part of the wrist.
Also, with volley serve, the paddle to ball contact must be below the navel(not the waste as you mentioned). You probably should have mentioned that you can toss a ball up in the air on a volley serve but not the drop serve.
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. While my response conveyed the correct implementation of the rule, I acknowledge that the exact wording from the rule book wasn't used. Let's examine them one at a time. 4.a.4.c Neither of the server’s feet may touch the playing surface outside the imaginary extension of the sideline or centerline. So yes technically, you could be standing on the line and not touching the outside the line but why even risk a call? You are correct rule says 4.A.7.b. The highest point of the paddle head must not be above the highest part of the wrist (where the wrist joint bends) when the paddle strikes the ball. Lastly yes, the rule book says waist in 4.A.7.c. Contact with the ball must not be made above the waist. It was a slip of the tongue it previously said naval. :) While the wording may not match the rule book perfectly the application is what is important.
It's ridiculous that there are so many pretty rules about serving. Serving is basically no advantage in this game..... takes the challenge out of returning serves. Make the game more challenging since it's a pretty easy game for absolutely anyone to play.
It would be great to use the drop serve and eliminate some of the rules. But the unique part of pickleball is the strategy that these several rules create. While it may be easy to learn, it is a complex strategical game. Have fun!
Nothing more condescending and ignoant than "it is what it is". The rules need to be followed by all of us, not by some and not by others who try to take a mile whenever they think they can. We have one who makes declarations on the court about which rules will and won't be enforced, ("Oh, we don't bother with that rule"), and of course, it's to her benefit.
That is certainly one way to look at it. I prefer to focus on what I can control. In most cases, it is extremely difficult to tell if a server is illegal without putting it on video. A great example of that is Tyson McGuffin and while his serve is legal, he's human and there are likely times that it is illegal but the human eye can't see that. (that might be why most referees won't call this as a fault in most tournaments and they are more well trained than the average player) So in a case where it is likely impossible to call a fault definitively, the only consequence for a fault is a redo, will most likley cause trouble or friction in a social group, and isn't causing a distinct advantage for the server I think it's best to weigh if it's worth saying something and how before you proceed. 😃
not comparable; a service with a centimeter step on the line is not impactful on the score as much as volleying at the net. let's be real.@@ConnectCommit
@Razraicu Completely comparable. Failing to play by ANY rule is a dereliction of honorable play. Once one side declares they will no longer abide by 'the rules' feel free to abandon all fair play and make your scoff law opponents feel the full weight of their foul play.
I do wonder why there are all these rules that force players to hit weak serves. In tennis we can do anything we want to win the serve. There is much about pickle ball that seems to be backyard friendly and not killer aggressive.
Hey Stephan you are right that a 4.0 tennis player can't hit a 120 mph serve. However if they have a great serve they will likely dominate at their level. In pickleball, only the serve side can score but the positional advantage is giving to the return team which creates a fun tension in the game. ;)
I look forward to playing pickle ball in 8 years when I am 90. Right now I am employing by spin, slice, and flat serves with a modicum of success against younger players. @@BetterPickleball
