Everything WRONG with a HARROP ELOCKER - ARB Air Locker VS Harrop Elocker 

Haha thanks mate I really appreciate that, I feel odd making people listen to me waffle for any length of time but I’ll be back into action with some better videos once some things turn up in the mail! 😉

@@timmyhasheartI’ll second what old mate above said. You are spot on with how you show and describe things which is why we all subscribe. I feel your channel is as much about education of us peanuts with the lessons you’ve learned as it is watching you noodle about in your bus. So feel free to put more of you waffling up. It’s good. Keep it up, it’s my favourite channel and not just cos you’re a Launnie snoozer as well!

Tim’s intelligent level of detail in explaining things is what I like. I like listening to what detail orientated 4wd enthusiasts on RU-vid talk about, as well as watching their off-roading videos too of course. Seen him on Tyler’s channel from way back, but just subscribed to Tim’s.

Yeah the McNamara lockers are now TJM Pro Lockers and just have a little pneumatic capsule that pushes a roller onto the locking plate, definitely a fantastic idea and design, it’s probably my favourite design tbh, but truth be told the rotating seal of an ARB, if done right, can last just as long between services and they’re tried and tested and easy to get parts. Also - a mate actually got me a deal on the air lockers and considering how much I’d already spent on air lockers a little help was nice haha. Cheers dude 👊🏻

​@@timmyhasheart Mate your're on the money, if installed properly, the ARBs won't leak anytime soon. I also did my own install and 12years on, still no leaks. I also have the TJMs in another vehicle, while I do prefer the TJM locker design over ARB, TJM are just a nightmare to deal with if you need spare parts. I've never used the Eaton's, after having a good look at them, it's easy to see their flaws, they've used a one size fits all centre and wtf were their engineers thinking when they used those pissy little cap screws. 😂

Oh yeah for sure, it is a worrisome design, like I get why it turns people off, but yeah they’re bloody robust and proven 🙏🏻🙏🏻

​@@timmyhasheart Yep, it really wouldn't take that much for a company like Eaton to just mod their design a little, better wiring, larger carriers and bolts. Job done.

For sure dude, like.. the way I imagine it, imagine a bolt on magnet capsule like the Pro Locker, magnet pushes a roller against a locking ring? Or you could literally have it the same except instead of having the 3 point roller cam, just have it push a locking dog straight onto the side gear, wouldn’t be hard at all.. but yeah as I said on another comment, Motorsport is harrop’s niche, I get the feeling the don’t care about optimising lockers for 4wders when they’re kinda perfect for track and street use 🙏🏻

Thanks heaps mate, appreciate you checking it out! 🙏🏻🙏🏻 I feel like finally after about 2 years my e lockers finally lock when I expect them to 😅 but also I did a couple of other cheeky little mods to the inside also but yeah, they’re mint now, still rate air lockers over them 🫡

I think they did change the 2 big orings that always leak

@@darcykeddell4930 yeah ok, can be a real pain when they start leaking, hence the nickname Air Leakers 😂. I know Arb say if installed correctly they won’t leak.

Hey mate! Yeah that was actually what caused an internal leak in my first car, had to take it back to ARB twice, I am not sure if they have changed the design recently, all I know is I can put both lockers on and the compressor literally won’t cycle again. So far at least so we will see how we go. That end of the locker is also a serviceable part which is only like $100! Cheers shad appreciate you mate 🤙🏻

@@shaddonaghue yeah just had it on a mates car but was a fresh diff and probably should have changed the oil after like 1000k because the seal actually got a tiny bit of metal in and that made it leak

Thanks for watching mate glad you enjoyed 🔥🔥

That’s awesome mate thank you 🙏🏻

Haha if it works it works. I’m not personally a fan of LSD or Lokkas, but there’s a place for them in the world it’s all down to preference!! 👊🏻👊🏻

Appreciate the comment mate! It is definitely a shame that after all the people having issues they don’t just revise a few things, because I genuinely love the idea of e lockers, a simple 12v connection would be unreal. Another thing is generally speaking, they’re a Motorsport company, and you think about these in a track application, being able to click the button on a straight before a corner and have it ease onto positive traction it’s probably a good design for it. As for the McNamara/Pro Lockers, they definitely are my favourite looking design, but couldn’t go passed the tried and tested ARB, especially with how easy they are to get parts 🙏🏻

@@timmyhasheart The t Lo biggest problem is that they won’t admit that there is anything wrong and they have the perfect get out because the just say it’s been crash locked, look at the dog ring, no warranty improper use! The variable amount of rotation required to engage is not ideal either as if you have minimal distance to bump over an obstacle etc. the lack of instant locking could also cause damage

I think the reason is the first time I chucked them back in maybe the threads werent clean and so the loctite never stuck, then everytime after the threads were probably stretched tbh. This locker is also now in its 3rd housing 🤙🏻

Haha just see how you go mate, I’m just one bloke take what you hear with a grain of salt. No 1 person is ever the whole picture. 👍🏻 thanks for checking it out

Good question mate I’ve never actually had one out or had much to do with them, if it works just use the dog! Anecdotally I get the vibe that the OEM applications are a lot more reliable than aftermarket ones but that’s not based on any actual known info.

Oh yeah I’ve had that a bit too, sort of have to roll it back and forth to get it to unlock, but tbh that can be the case with the air lockers too, while torque is bound up it’ll hold lock.

I prefer the air lockers, I wouldn’t say the e lockers have “improved” but I got through all of my issues in the end.

Yeah it’s mostly an issue with the factory rear geometry but easily fixed by longer arms, however the patrol factory geometry is still really good, much better than a lot of platforms from factory 👍🏻👍🏻 thanks mate 🙏🏻

Awesome dude! Thanks for joining me here. Cheers bud 🤙🏻🤙🏻

No worries at all mate glad it could help 🙏🏻

Haha cheers mate, honestly I cut the talking part down from about 30 mins cause I didn’t want it to drag on so I was a bit worried it was a bit choppy once I was done. Appreciate the feedback 🙏🏻

Facts dude! Not a fan

Couldn’t agree more dude 🤙🏻 always loved my ARB lockers and my compressor dead set only cycles once per button hit, it’s a non issue imo. Air lockers in my last 4wd had the odd leak in the rear one but they were installed by ARB.

@@timmyhasheart we have never had a customer come back with air leak, but we are shop of wheelers who know what is going on, my own JK the compressor was cycling the whole way up widowmaker but the locker stayed in. little melted line was the cause of that problem. I have personally in competition turned ARBs on while the wheels are turning without failure

@@MrBudscustoms yeah I didn’t say anything about airlockers being bad I dunno why you’re sticking up for them haha, it’s dead set what I run and there’s a reason I have run them in multiple 4wds 😂 tried, tested and easy to get parts and if installed right they don’t have issues, as I say mine doesn’t even cycle the compressor. And air lines are easy as to repair too 👊🏻

Awesome mate!! People shouldn’t be scared to use ELockers, I love mine I just wish I’d done my own wiring from the start, 🤙🏻

@@timmyhasheart Just had my elocker installed for 24 hour, had a drive to test with the (factry rocker switch) and now I've gotten back the next day there seems to be no power. what are your thoughts, I will check the connections at the diff tommorow before I ring the installers.. I have checked the fuse on the +ve terminal and the earth and they look good. Would be a great video to show us how you made the loom and how you make it a quality wiring solution. Cheers Will

When you say no power, you mean you’re not reading 12v at the diff? Or you mean you turn it on and don’t notice a locker being on?

Without fully understanding the question, I assume you mean it has some kind of all time engagement in the hubs or centre diff that allows you to automatically go into 4wd on slip? If that’s the case then no the lockers won’t affect it, because when they’re not engaged they’re just like a normal set of diffs with spider gears etc just like your factory centres 👍🏻

Assuming That Putting AIR Lockers Would Be Different Physical Parts Then The STOCK 4wd Parts That Come With It... Puting NON Matching Parts Would Disable Parts Of Systems That Don't Fit/match together like puzzle pieces....🤔 When The Air pushes the disc/piece of metal into gear.... 4WD AUTO Mode Would Not Work Because All wheels are engaged... So The Slipited Slip Action Would Be Replace... NEVERMIND..Just Answered MY Own Question...It Would Be An "OPEN Differential" so I Think When In 4WD AUTO it Acts Like A limited slip differential..which means theyblock and unlock automatically🤔 and So Then I heard in an Air Locker YiuTube Video..That The Differentials would be "OPEN DIFFERENTIALS"🤔... SO FREE MOVING.. THE OPPOSITE OF TRUE4WD OR LOCKED DIFFS...🤔 SO BASICALLY IT WOULD BE ; FRONT OR REAR WHEEL LOCKED(2x2 or 2x2), Both Front and rear Locked (4x4), Then When NOT Engaged...it would be "open Diffs"...🤔 Which means..1 wheel squiel 😄🤔👍 Please correct me if I'm Wrong🤔👍

I Miss Having A FLIP OUT KEYBOARD ON MY PHONE!😡🤷.. TYPING WORKED SOOO MUCH BETTER... MY APOLOGIES FOR THE MISSPELLINGS🤷

Yeah well it’s interesting because a lot of the OEM’s use an elocker when they’re offering their vehicles with a factory rear locker, in fact (aside from the old vacuum lockers) I’m pretty sure Toyota 70’s are the only manufacturer these days who put their own lockers in, and harrop are the supplier for all other OEM lockers and they all seem to be gravy? At least the ones I’ve seen, it’s just their aftermarket ones that seem to have an issue. Cheers for the comment mate 🙏🏻

@@timmyhasheart guess the OEM s use their own harness

@@timmyhasheart I think the OEM's get the e-locker center direct from Eaton in the US much like Harrop do and then incorporate them into their own diff carriers. Harrop are just adding them to diff carriers that suite Australian cars as they are the direct importer.

Ahh mines 24v it’s a Viair 450c from outback equipment, which is basically a bushranger which is a brand ARB sell also, but they do 12v versions but honestly any air compressor will do the trick, just need a 90-120 pressure switch to run in the relay circuit so it cuts out 👍🏻

Thanks mate cheers for watching 🙏🏻

Yeah right that’s good, I think all my issues stemmed from that to be honest 🤙🏻

Cheers dude! Every locker has its pros and cons.. just a matter of what you subjectively want to compromise on 🔥

Appreciate that dude, I dunno if I agree tbh, I’ve wheeled hard with them and never noticed them locking and unlocking, and would happily run them, as I said it’s all the other issues that pissed me off, also its nothing to do with tyre size, 31 or 40 it’s 1/8 turn to lock and 1/4 turn to change directions, but that’s provided there’s enough slip on the ground for it to fall out of the dog it’s locked into, 9/10 times the traction and torsion in the axle will hold it locked. I’ve done some pretty intensive mucking about with them and can say with confidence in a car park, rear locker on whether it’s air locker or e locker if you turn hard lock and go forward to backward the behaviour is nearly indistinguishable 👍🏻👍🏻 Again, thanks for watching and commenting mate appreciate it 🙏🏻

Cheers mate!! Yeah I think that’s just a pretty normal thing, I can smell oil coming back up the solenoid exhausts when I disengage sometimes, doesn’t stop the locker from not working though, just prime the button a few times once the oil is hot, or take the air line off the diff and blow it out 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Thanks for watching mate!

Yeah boi!! She was on there

Yeah that’s pretty standard, if the wheel is going too fast it’s gonna miss the dog. But if you’re hearing a lot of noises and what not I’d probably pull it and inspect.

Cheers mate! Umm I think they’re Aurora’s mate 🙏🏻

Hey mate thanks for the feedback and input I agree! My e locker did take a few rolls straight to disengage and it’s understandable why, it’s because they work on tyre opposition and so they won’t unlock until that torque frees up, that same reason is why the direction change isn’t an issue in my opinion, because the torque bound up in the system 2 of 3 times will hold it in the current locked position

Thanks for the comment mate, this may be true but it actually doesn’t matter because the e locker works by opposing tyres. So in a real world environment it actually takes one wheel being stationary to even ramp into the engagement dog. If the crownwheel turns forward and both tyres turn it will never lock. The elocker carrier requires opposing motion inside the carrier in order to ramp up and lock. 🤙🏻 The difference to an ARB being: it locks on site immediately regardless of tyre opposition. You hit the button; you’re locked immediately and it will all move as one regardless, that’s what I was showing. But none of this is my issue with ELockers FYI, no qualms with the design! 👊🏻

Yeah it’s a matter of choice mate, all in all I’ve had less problems with air lockers, the ones I have in now I installed myself nice and slow and carefully and haven’t had a single problem. I carry a bit of extra airline so if I rip a line I just pop a new piece in, and I have also ripped wires out of the diff for the e locker except there wasn’t enough wire left poking out to crimp a new terminal on. It’s horses for courses, I don’t hate either just stating the facts and experience. I still have e locker in the GU and they’re both working. I personally rate air lockers over e lockers 👊🏻

@@timmyhasheart always good to hear feedback from people using them. Keep up the good work.

Awesome mate thanks for watching, yeah I’ve had air lockers in a couple of cars now and always appreciated them. I’m blown away by the humility in the comments btw, can’t stand the attitude some people have of just acting like everything they have is the best, love that dude 🤙🏻

Awesome choice, I love the air lockers 👍🏻 and appreciate the kind words mate

Ahaha well it’s the bloody bit that rounds in em 😂 you’d be wasted 3mins in

Yeah… naaa haha. 12.9 torqued to spec, increased length by 12mm, brake cleaned, loctite, 3 times. 👍🏻

Thanks for the comment mate, that’s half right but not quite how they work, they work by opposition, so by having one tyre on the ground and one tyre jacked up, they oppose one another and start to cycle the spider gears which forced them to ramp up on the cams and lock. That’s why I have one tyre on the ground and the handbrake slightly on. 👍🏻

@@timmyhasheart yeaaaaa but there needs to be drag to rotate the collar around to in turn push / engage the pins I myself have been caught out more than once by trying to test newly fitted elockers on a 2 post hoist and wondering why they aren’t engaging for this same reason

@@alexchalmers-vp9qb yes on a 2 post you have both wheels off the ground, they engage by having the spider gears turned.. so there is 1 wheel on the ground not moving, which is your pressure and the other jacked up spinning which forces the pins up the ramps and locks. Trust me dude.. fiddled with them a LOT 😅try putting the handbrake on a bit

Thanks so much mate, appreciate you watching 👊🏻👊🏻

Thanks so much mate, appreciate you 🙏🏻🙏🏻

Oh you’re kidding what a joke hahaha. I did have another issue with one of the pins that I didn’t mention in the video but it’s fixed now.

@@timmyhasheart Interestingly enough when I posted the issue on FB someone reached out and told me eaton who owns the original design switched from pins to ball bearings on the ramps to resolve this issue years ago but Harrop have stuck with the original design. I wouldn't say its common but others have had a similar failure and why I'd probably go airlockers if I had my time again.

Yeah actually I think it’s the other way around, it used to have 3 ball bearings and then they went to the pins here in Australia, and just so you know too when I ordered my new engagement dog, they accidentally send me the ramp plate and it wasn’t too expensive, can’t remember how much but definitely under $100, I still have it in my shed if you have a patrol and need one.

Not sure mate, but I mean the carrier also isn’t what’s gonna break anyway, generally it isn’t the locker that breaks. Then you also have an issue where if you make the carrier too big, and the pinion has an issue for whatever reason it can dive into the carrier, mostly on cars like a Toyota where they have a crush sleeve. But yeah never known a harrop carrier to break 🙏🏻🙏🏻

Correct. Small carrier means less room for big gears and big cross-shaft. You won't break the carrier, the small weak pinion gears will grab the cross-shaft and snap it. Usually this happens because of excessive wheel spin BEFORE engagement of the locker.

Yeah they do, you mean under the heat shrink on the locker supply wire? That’s actually what was causing Harris’ to pop its own fuse. I’ve got it out of both my wiring looms, the look I made in the GU literally doesn’t even have a relay. Peak draw is 10.7a. Switch is rated to 20a, fuse 10a and wire 15a.

@@timmyhasheart my auto sparky mate explained that the diode is because the electro magnet dumps power back up the wire when turned off and the diode absorbs it or something along those lines. Sounds like your rear might of been a lemon if the front never failed

Cheers mate 🙏🏻🙏🏻

Haha I’d get one for a street car for sure, and it’s a point I was going to make in this video but deleted it. The fact that these are designed for motor spots because harrop is a Motorsport company. The locking mechanism is ideal for track use because you can flick it on the straights and it’ll come on lock gradually and then the direction change business isn’t an issue cause you’re staying in one direction? But yeah up to you aye haha

@@timmyhasheart mines for off road for sand dunes and wadis here in Dubai. But to be fair the cayenne 4wd system is similar to the A-trac system in my fj. Great Channel btw. I’ve had nearly all 4wd in my 25 Years off roading..even 6 g wagens..but my old y60 patrol was the best off road tbh.

Oh right I saw Porsche and assumed street car haha, Dubai!! Duuuude would love to come to Dubai and hit the dunes in a turbo petrol patrol haha. They’re insane! Thanks mate appreciate you watching 🙏🏻

@@timmyhasheart you’re welcome..get a flight and you can ride 300 metre high dunes with us👍🏼

Umm, not really haha - but it’s just a standard 12v loom with a narva switch and relay. Make sure the wire is sized for the lockers peak draw of 10.9a. 👍🏻

@@timmyhasheart harrop said the max continuous current 8A. Fuse in wiring loom is 10A. If you measure 10.9A, is it possible that the vehicle voltage is too high?

@@pppidsn647 www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/differentials-traction-control/elocker/Eaton-ELocker-wiring-schematic.pdf

​@@timmyhasheart Oh, different lockers have different maximum currents, maybe the electromagnets are different.😀

Yeah that’s why air lockers are so good because you just hear the compressor and know the thing is working haha, cheers for watching mate 🙏🏻

@@timmyhasheart Definitely sounds handy! Without having that light on the screen I reckon 50% of the time my rear locker wouldn't actually be on when I think it is lol can be annoying to get off as well!

@@timmyhasheart Would probably be easier if you wired them to your loom for the dash light, that way you could know due to the dash light?

Well the switches for an e and air locker have a light, doesn’t mean it’s working mechanically that just means the switch circuit has 12v.. an air locker will leak air and the compressor will continuously prime if there is something wrong with the locker. 👍🏻👍🏻

@@timmyhasheart For sure I was meaning the Eatons, there would have to be a way where only the light would come on when it was locked but Idk I know they're a different design then factory toyota lockers. Am saving for a set but Idk the more research I do the more everything sucks haha

Oh cool! I’ve never actually seen a factory one in person, how are they? Are they any good? I know they run off vacuum but have heard they’re a bit unreliable

@@timmyhasheart ive only had mine for 3years, factory vacuum compared to aftermarket air is prettymuch on point. but in saying that the last time i used the locker it didnt want to disengage. need to find somewhere up here that actually knows what it is (apparently they arent well known?) to have a look at it and go from there. all i keep hearing so far is rip it out and put an air locker in instead 🙅

@@shane151184 yeah right, yeah I heard they have a few issues both having enough vacuum to engage and then getting them to disengage. I also heard that you can convert them to air? And they become much more reliable? But yeah can’t beat the aftermarket ones too 🔥🔥

@@timmyhasheart converting to air? never heard of that but definately something to look into 🤙

Thanks heaps mate, thanks for watching 🤙🏻🤙🏻

Thanks mate cheers for watching 👍🏻

I have a funny feeling you mightn’t have watched the whole video, if you watch to the end I use the elocker in a rut and go forward to reverse 4 times in a row, you can see the elocker in action and tbh there is no “shock load”. Additionally, pro lockers are also operated by air. 🤙🏻🤙🏻 Thanks for the comment mate appreciate the input 👍🏻

@@timmyhasheart Only because you are being mechanically careful to demonstrate that. Pumped up drivers in a hurry to get reverse and plenty of right foot will have a different outcome.

@@trickster8635 watch the clip of me in the mud ripping from forward to reverse 😂

pro lockers dont need a compressor to operate? what crack u smokin my man

@@timmyhasheart I did. You were not ripping it. And mud has poor traction and unlikely to build driveline stress anyway.

That’s awesome mate, love to hear that cheers 🙏🏻🙏🏻

@@timmyhasheart I think it’s to do with fact you’re away from mainland. You guys are real in Tassie

I’m now considering an ARB rear locker on my 100 series. Any special tips on having one fitted if have to have someone else fit it?

@@robertmillar2037 na not really if I wasn’t fitting it myself the only other people I’d have fit it would be ARB. Then the install is covered for 5 years if it ever leaks. Where as if you let a mate do it maybe they never want to hear about it again haha. Remember you don’t need to take the whole car in either.. buy yourself a rear diff and take the locker and rear diff into ARB. 🤙🏻 then just swap the diff in and run your air.

No deal, would never ever ever run any kind of auto locker. 🤙🏻

He wouldn't have anything to make a video on then because they work always unlike selectables with the locking issues.haha

Yeah I’ve seen it with mine and 2 mates so far, do your own wiring for sure 🙏🏻

@@timmyhasheart yea I'll have to give my own wiring a go because I've given it to my mechanic to fix 4 times and it's never fixed. also just curious how lond did it take you to put your front e-locker in because it took my mechanic 16 hours. I'm not sure if it actually took that long or he is just trying to get money from me

Cheers mate thanks for watching 👊🏻👊🏻

Thanks mate cheers for watching 👊🏻👊🏻

No worries 😅

Thanks mate 🙏🏻🙏🏻 appreciate you checking it out & commenting!

@@timmyhasheart No worries mate - I am one of Tyler’s first subscribers and rate your opinion. Have you ever looked into the LTG locker by any chance. I’m struggling to find information and independent reviews on them

Cheers bro glad you enjoyed 🔥🔥

Thanks so much for the feedback mate! Yeah pro locker are my favourite in theory, e locker are my favourite by concept, but ARB are my favourite by practicality and compromise, IE availability, popularity & access to parts etc while still being super robust and probably most common. Appreciate the feedback and kind words dude!

Thanks mate 🤙🏻

I know right haha, I’ve missed it 🙏🏻

@@timmyhasheart just subbed too love the channel.

Thats why no one races with e lockers. Did you modify the air lockers before they went in ?

Thanks heaps mate appreciate you 🙏🏻🙏🏻

I was actually surprised how many race cars I have seen with elocker stickers on the side tbh, I assumed no one would. Na dude, straight in. 👍🏻

I didn’t even chuck a relay in when I pulled them from the GQ and installed them into the GU. Schematics say the locker draws 10.7a peak, the switch is good for 20a. So I chucked in a 10a fuse with 15a wire all round and run it all in one circuit, so technically my light works as that now.

who is Australia is distributing the Power Tanks for sale?

You’re a good bloke mate

Awesome thanks mate 🙏🏻