The dinner knife. The Joker loves attention, drama, and ceremony. To be killed in such a mundane way is just the perfect way to insult him, as he has always prided himself on being the center of attention and thrives on the infamy that he garners with his twisted actions. To be taken down in such an unceremonious and boring fashion is pretty much just pissing on him and his legacy.
Technically the Joker was the center of attention, he did get to live in infamy, because he lead Jason off to be murderous, in a way exactly what he wanted from Batman
Reminds me of the scene in the Animated Series where Joker is legitimately begging Batman to save him from Charlie Collins, a man whom he called a "miserable little nobody" just a minute prior. Why? Because Charlie knew Joker's biggest fear was dying to some nobody in an alleyway. Charlie was bluffing, of course, as it turned out the Joker Bomb that used to threaten him was a fake, but it managed to do what Joker had failed to do all this time: make the Bat laugh, and that is the second worst insult to the clown.
It really gets on my nerves that people want Batman to kill the Joker, just Batman, no one else. That's exactly what the Joker wants. I would much rather have anyone else to kill the Joker, even Alfred.
@@Samuel152 kinda hard to kill someone with a bullet in your head or a rictus grin caussd by laughing gas, etc., i think Alfred would be smarter than to try to attempt it.
it makes sense, but after batman !"%# TRIES TO BECOME A GOD (by accident) WHIT A MAGIC CHAIR he asks how many jokers are, and the all knowing chair responds to hime "three"(that was before the three jokers), so that is just things being normal unless I'm wrong, but, another way that the cleaner could be Joker is because someone jokerized someone else after batman leaved de magic chair and before the three jokers, cool comment btw.
At a certain point, the Bat Family's No-Kill Rule gets pretty obnoxious and self-righteous, given how many people they've indirectly killed by taking the moral high ground.
Makes ya wish Punisher went after the Joker and ended that piece of garbage, HELL, Joker wouldn't get satisfaction from it as Frank legit doesn't give a fuck about what Criminal Bastard he kills, it's just tuesday in his war against crime. Just be all: "GIVE ME SOMETHING TO WORK WITH FRANK!" "No." *BANG*
To be fair police should have taken a shot on the joker on his first days of crime. So I would blame the legal justice system and police department rather than an outlaw vigilante who clearly has mental issues
@@thekramer1097 But the cops are normal people that don't regularly have to shoot clowns, so it makes sense if they got distracted thinking "What the fuck is going on?" Batman is the world' leading authority on Knowing What It's Like To Have The Opportunity To Kill A Clown But Choosing Not To.
@@LAVATORR Dude the police is THE arm of the law and they can shoot to kill given the right circumstances which in the case of the joker is almost every time. Police's responsibilities doesn't disapear just because there's a vigilante going around beating thugs
i agree that he's doing the right thing, but it shouldn't be him killing the joker. if he kills the joker, he'll become a husk of what he once is, the joker would go down laughing, not caring that jason killed him, all he would've cared about is seeing his favorite and most upbeat robin becoming a lunatic. instead, the punisher is the one to kill the joker. in a comic crossover event the punisher tries to kill the joker, but unlike jason, the punisher is so unphased by murdering big time lunatics, and since he was never personally hurt by the joker, it would've just been another body to the kill count. joker who? all i know is of that evil clown who got capped
honestly it bothered me that in the three jokers story that despite there being a literal mountain of bodies in their wake bruce and barbara still refuse to kill them
Better one yet Why in the hell of law of Gotham didn't execute joker for his crimes anyway?! Like any other freaking psychopaths who can not be saved by therapy or whatever
@@ThatGuyChoco Im pretty sure thats just his bad posture for being tortured by the Joker stuck in a chair without leaning for 2 years, he couldn't lean because he was line with barbed wire. So he is not edgy, his posture is just bad.
The Joker literally tortured and temporarily MURDERED Jason, any judge with a semblance of a conscious would probably throw out the case as an "eye for an eye" thing, or if they must punish him give him a slap on the wrist. I don't see how he'd even get in that situation tho, what cop in Gotham would arrest him? I'm kind of surprised no cop has decided to kill the Joker for Batman, it's like killing Hitler as a baby, sure you'd have to live with killing a baby but knowing you prevented millions of men woman and children from dying brutal inhumane deaths would probably make it pretty easy to sleep like a baby after
@dev what he meant by killing baby hitter is that the joker wouldn’t do future harm. it doesn’t really fit but how can you not see what he meant 😂 unless youre just being a cunt lol
Reminder, this all started because DC asked the fans if they wanted Jason to die or not, and they voted yes. Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of our actions.
What consequence? All i see is a bad character turned good (Of course i don't really have a say in this because i wasn't born back then but my point still stands)
I think it’s pretty cool how they decided to make Red Hood’s movie an interactive adventure. After all, Jason Todd’s death WAS the result of fan interaction via the fan vote. You getting to choose what he does now is poetic.
The no-kill rule really only works for batman since its his rule and its there so that he doesn't go fucking insane and turn evil, which is very clear will happen if he ever does For other members of the family to not kill is more just for their morality but its kind of stupid how they go after Jason for his killings, it's not like any of them go after Gordon for killing people as a cop, or Alfred for killing people when he needs to. So why the hell do they pick on Jason when he kills the truely worst of the worst and didn't leave them any other choice
When Alfred or Gordon kills someone, it's a mundane action. Just part of what they do. When Jason kills the Joker, it's a philosophical statement that Batman disagrees with and needs to oppose. This isn't right. But it's a perspective that explains the double standard.
@@toricon8070 a philosophical statement that saves the lives of hundreads or even thousands at the cost of one. That seems morally right however you look at it.
@@nhaedzwero43 no, I mean "killing the Joker is a philosophical statement that matters more than killing some rando" is not right. I don't agree with this perspective, I'm just trying to understand it. I'm 100% down for killing J. His life matters just as much as any other, and, well, you've done the math.
Jason has always being treated as garbage by the Batfamily. I kinda feel for him. He does the right thing, yet shunned by his family just because of some moral code they decided to have.
I always thought it would be a cool yet very very dark idea that red hood or robin depending on the story actually listens to Batman and doesn’t kill him… but instead gives him a fate worse than death. I would imagine if Jason were to amputate the jokers limbs, he wouldn’t be able to hurt anyone anymore and his life would be meaningless as he couldn’t get any more satisfaction from causing any further carnage until he dies a slow degrading death. Jason leaving his limbless torso in the street in front of Arkham Asylum would be one of the coldest and brutal panels in comic book history
I love how Batgirl is defending the man who got shot in the uvula and raped in front of her unconscious dad and also mutilated her boss's adoptive son into a horror version of himself is defending him
@@bowieman4563 Sadly, the Joker never dying has no actual in-universe reason, not a good one anyway. In reality, it's just because DC makes more money off his continued existence than they would for killing him off like the bad joke he is, finally.
@@ahabduennschitz7670 Batman Therapy is a happy ending. It ends on a hopeful note that while things aren't perfect now, the Batfamily is strong enough to heal Bruce in the long run.
@@ahabduennschitz7670 everything can be described as relative. So in comparison to Jason, Talia and Bruce blown up by a bomb, this is a happy ending. However i cannot help but wonder if any endings where Jason killed Joker are in fact happy endings... for everybody in Gotham.
@@ГригорийГ-ч4н it could be seen as a happy ending, but remember, joker may have died, but more criminals are still out their, and more would just arrive. It’s still good jokers dead, and at least there’s that.
Barbara in Three Jokers: "Stop killing these clinically insane mass murderers that will always escape prison and kill hundreds more people or else I won't sleep with you." I hate the batfamily sometimes
I feel like the next time Batman arrests Joker and hands him in. Just let them give him the Death Penalty. Batman won't kill him, won't have to save him as it would be the Legal System FINALLY DOING SOMETHING about it and he'd be dead. Batman honoring the legal system and his code isn't put in question as they would be doing their assigned jobs.
@@edgycatx825 He doesn’t go to jail, he goes to an asylum. In the US, it’s not legal to sentence a person deemed insane to death. And as evil and vile as he is, the Joker is the definition of insanity.
@@ssjalpha6593 Issue is, it is *very hard* to get deemed as Insane and not guilty via reason of insanity in the US. There have been plenty of people who were legitimately insane or poorly functioning that got given the maximum since they knew what they did was a crime, but not why it was a crime. Joker knows what he is doing is wrong, it's his entire manifesto and philosophy towards why he fights Batman, he even revels in it. So he wouldn't actually fall under the Insanity clause and would be deemed fit to stand trial and likely get the Death Penalty (or he would but since Gotham has been stated to be in New Jersey, when it's not it's own state, he would get life in prison since in New Jersey the Death Penalty is illegal)
My favorite dynamic of the Bat-Family is the fact that Jason is kinda like Batman's final straw in his war on crime. If there's an individual that needs to be stopped permanently, Jason is the only one in the family who can do it with a clean conscience.
I love Jason Todd the most out of any of Batman's Protégés because he is able to invalidate Batmans no kill rule and also question Batman's Sanity by his adherence to a rule that might be flawed. Jason todd killed People,but he wasn't insane and never truly targeted anyone who was innocent Was as a slum kid in the Gotham Projects.
He was also arguably the most confident and skilled Robin for his short period of time. The one best-suited to be Batman's successor in ability as well as attitude (iirc he was introduced trying to strip the wheels off the batmobile for cash.)
@@TheLikenessOfNormal I remember that too! I definitely agree! Too bad the fans back then hated him. He's my favorite Robin. Love him more as Red Hood.
Barbara us very adamant about the no-kill rule among bat family members she's probably the only one who has never directly or indirectly killed a living being
Batman, the world greatest detective with an IQ of 195 for some reason cannot come up with a moral boundaries. In the Under the Red Hood movie Jason is pretty rational on picking who to kill, like he is not asking to kill Penguin, Two-Face or anything. But if there was ever an agreement it would just make a lot of sense that Batman should just have a limit on where it crosses the line. Let's say Batman captures Joker and he escape. If he escapes 3 times and commits atrocities that endangers Gotham, at some point Joker's chances are out and has to be killed. It applies to every major villian out there. But of course Batman views killing as an inherently evil no matter what. Even after playing Arkham Knight, the Riddler's only victims are the Street Thugs and Catwoman, but the Riddler never at one point ever harmed a civilian or a cop. He even critisize Batman's, "These thugs are selfish, murderers and lack empathy. You prioritize Principles over Logic, Batman. And that would be your downfall." Which he is actually kind of right.
The thing is, killing is apart of life. Not just animals but other people. in every religious text murder isn’t taboo unless it’s done in cold blood. If Bruce wasn’t an atheist and read something other than true crime books he would understand killing is absolutely necessary and playing the moral high ground is actually a sin in itself. Choosing not to kill someone actively killing anyone close to you and random civilians at will?? Joker should die after every major event he causes and it should be left up to other powerful villains reviving him for the plot rather than the old “I broke out of jail” bs. But I’m 25 I’m sure these stories stopped being meant for me over a decade ago.
You have to wonder though, why is it up to the Batman to render that moral judgement? Why don't the courts or the system just decide to off Joker if he's such an unrepentant, beyond salvation monster? I mean, Joker escapes from Arkham and Batman stops, but it is ultimately the system that enables Joker in the first place since he's "clinically insane"
Okay, that Arkham Knight bit doesn't count because Batman was FORCED to save the thugs to solve Riddler's challenges. Riddler told Batman he has to solve every last riddle to fight him, and part of it was to save the thugs (you can't fight Riddler until you complete all of his challenges).
Jason and Tim are absolutely tortured mentally and physically by Joker. Tim honestly I think was absolutely heartbreaking in Return of The Joker he was brainwashed, kidnapped, and overall traumatized and killed The Joker as a cherry on top. Even years of therapy for Tim couldn’t fix that damage. Jason overall got way more messed up much more but still.
I feel like there should be a loyalty card system for D.C. characters. Every time you kill the joker you get a point in your punch card and the 10th time you kill him you get a free sandwich
I kinda wish that Batman would just let the joker die. It’s kinda sad because feels like Bruce doesn’t care about his family because he let’s this monster live and I get it this the Batman code but guys. Batman has gone out of his way to save the joker not once but multiple times including the time when he revived him in the other time when he got him off of trial because he was ‘ innocent’.
One time, Batman saved Joker for a legitimate good reason. The Joker held valuable information in one comic, and he was killed. Batman revived him using the Lazarus Pit, which turned the Joker sane. He told Batman information he needed to know and turned back into his old self later on. I do agree, I wish Batman would let the Joker die sometimes. One time, he did in Arkham City, the Joker poisoned Batman and told him they would be dead in the morning. The cure was taken away from the Joker, and Batman simply replied, "So we both die. I'm fine with that." Batman quickly changed his mind when the Joker told him he poisoned Gotham hospitals with the contaminated blood. You don't have to play the game, I'll tell you what happened, unless you don't want me to and want to see it yourself (don't read the rest of this if you don't want to hear spoilers): Batman got the cure and drank it, curing himself and saved some for the Joker. Batman took a moment to pause and pondered out loud if it was worth it to save the Joker. The Joker, out of desperation, attacked Batman, only for Batman to drop the cure and the Joker later dies. Batman confirmed he would've given the cure to the Joker, only because refusing to him would mean the same as killing him. I, personally, think that was a perfect way to kill the Joker, with only himself to blame for his death.
Remember that movie with the Riddler, called the 'Silence' or something? Despite murdering his doctor friend, Batman still tries to save a man who was going to die from cancer and his own doing when the building collapsed. Catwoman saved Batman and questioned after everything Riddle had done, 'why save him'? Batman's answer was 'I had to try.'
@@kaytlinjustis5643 it was the animated movie called "Hush" amazing movie when he said that made me truly believe into helping others and understand why they do these crimes
The best part about the diner murder was that Joker was hiding as Jack Napier and was still had his ghostly pale skin underneath. Good callback to Jack Nicholson's Joker.
I truly love the Anniversary edition of Under the Red Hood. I think it's one of the best things I've ever seen. I'm also looking forward to the upcoming Suicide Squad storyline where Jason and Harley are out hunting down the Joker. From what I hear it looks like it's going to be the end of the Joker this time.
Just the fact that Jason doesn’t get a happy ending in any of these stories and loses friends when he wants revenge on the Joker. This makes him such a tragic character and seriously the Robin who really got the short end of the stick
I totally support the idea of ending Joker. If Batman exists he will continue to kill and torture, nothing can change that. And if killing the lunatic is the primary issue then lobotomize him.
@@anna-flora999 Not like batman’s against crimes against humanity, mf brainfucked jason in the comics to have breakdowns whenever he “has bad thoughts.” Yet somehow Batman can’t do the same to Joker.
@@ThatGuyChoco Step One: Brush teeth and eat Cheerios. Step Two: Get uniform on and talk shit about Batman. Step Three: Murder criminals and ride the motorcycle. Step Four: Watch a movie with Babs. Step Five: Feed ace and sleep with babs.
@@thenovicewhispers I mean, Judges have been known to give people slap on the wrists or very light punishments if they kill someone that is really evil
i think cuz murder is murder, and looking from the Bible stand point “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord
If anything Jason raises a very compelling arguement about killing. There certainly are scenarios and times where it is the only (logical) option. And the fact that batman is right that he cannot do it selectively if he even kills once just shows there is a mental or emotional weakness there that could be exploited or turned on him if his adversary understands him well enough.
I couldn’t imagine living this eternal struggle of fighting psychopaths, and the justice system never sentencing them to death or the FBI or CIA putting them on a kill list
My favorite part of the interactive movie was Jason getting custody of Damian and would love to see Jason and Damian team up to bring down the Wayne Family and the House of al Ghul. The death at the diner is one of my favorite Joker Deaths. Hard to choose between that one, The Arkham game one, and the Dark Knight death
You guys can't tell how much I LOVE that Barbara never got to read Jason's message. Girl rides almost every Batfamily member, I just can't stand her being the main love interest for the batmembers. That's pure bullshit if you ask me. Anyway, Jason deserve better.
This man may have kept you prisoner for 2 years, so he can continuously torture you as much as he wanted, leaving both physical and psychological trauma, but killing is a big no no!
also i agree wit u but there are others that disagree everyones morals are so fucked up and thats why they hate Batmans morals. like it or not Batman is in the right and no one can tell me otherwise trying to make me believe we always have to kill somebody
It is weird. And I’m in the minority who loved Tim and Barbara together in Arkham Knight and of course love Dick and Barbara but this was….an interesting story
@@secoTheSonicFan , I always felt that if Barbara Gordon should end up with anybody then it should be Jason Todd otherwise I think that she stay single, and Jason Todd getting married with either Artemis, (Amazonian), or Ravager and having a family with either of those two.
@@matti.8465 his relationship with Artemis was pretty good in Outlaws. But I get what you mean, and I guess I’d have to agree. Jason does have stuff to do before he can commit to something fully
@@sr2971 They made him a drug addict and a Scarecrow's puppet. He doesn't have the moral code that the real Jason has with the innocent in canon, killing without discrimination. And ultimately, like most of the characters in that series, he made very stupid decisions, completely out of character. Worst is that at the end he was almost crying to go back to the Titans after having killed one of them due to the plan he had with Scarecrow...Red Hood begging to come back with the Titans, Begging!! Horror!!!
@@sr2971 I forgot the most important thing they did in this series: They made Bruce kill the Joker as soon as Jason's death was announced, avenging him, plus there was also no new Robin to officially replace him (Tim Drake appeared but not as Robin yet) , so the existence of his character did not make any sense, but they tried to fix it by making him a drug addict, and therefore dependent on Scarecrow's drug. As Red Hood fans, I really suffered watching that shit.
0:50 Plot twist, Two Face never killed Todd's Parents, It was All Deathstroke All along. He Lied to Jason Todd All along so He could See Robin become a Killer.
I understand batman "no killing" rule but one thing is killing the joker and another is saving him in multiple occasion and choosing him over you son 💀
It’s honestly sad how Jason Todd has been traumatized by the joker, but then again it also develops who he is now and I find it nice how they made his character into red hood. I like what he does :)
i always wondered about the logic behind locking up villains that break out on the weekly. i honestly was like dude just kill them locking em up for "rehab" doesnt work since clearly they just keep coming out and racking up their killscore.
In Apokolips War, I’m pretty sure Nightwing wasn’t resurrected as a zombie. From what I’ve heard, after Nightwing died, Damian resurrected him using the Lazarus Pit despite Dick specifically telling him *not to*. So long story short, when he’s resurrected, his mind can’t handle the stress and he goes insane. I could be wrong, but this is just how I’ve heard it.
Yeah you’re right, he said that jason todd is batman in the film when it’s clearly bruce wayne and towards the end of the film before Damien dies and gets resurrected he calls batman father 😂
Edit: spoiler warning for those who didn't see Justice League Dark Apokalypse War. In Justice League Dark Apokalypse War, Batman is explicitly still Bruce Wayne in that film, as Damien, Darkseid and a few others flat out say during the final battle, with Damien calling him father (which he would not do for a fellow Robin) and Darkseid even orders Batman to "Kill [his] own son" (context: Batman was being controlled using the Mobius Chair).
joker has actually died multiple times. in the main canon even being shot in the head by a cop once. but he keeps coming back... iirc there was one comic that actually sugested that one of the death gods of the DC universe (probably Nekron) just keeps bringing him back because of all the creative death he brings to the world.
I think my favourite version of Jason killing the joker is death in the family anniversary edition because there’s so many different outcomes that can happen.
I like how the joker a Psychopath/cereal killer who has mentally and physically tortured many people can instantly convert to a normal man with morals if Batman dies
It's always wildly unbelievable that anybody would ever go to prison for killing a super criminal. It's also unbelievable there would not be a constant government led tanks and gunships manhunts for these dudes forever and ever. What jury would ever dare convict someone for stopping a man who murdered tens of thousands, upwards of millions depending on the timeline?
The main reason I always hated batmans ideology of never killing the villains, is that even when those villains kill hundreds of thousands to millions of people, all they get, is tried and thrown in prison, never executed in any way, nor do they ever actually get help, even the ones that genuinely seem like they need it, like Killer Croc simply wanting to find a cure for his condition, but always is locked in a cell, scoffed at and forced to break out cause if he doesn't nothing will be done to help him, etc etc.
What annoys me is that although it's happened loads of times, it was all kind of erased with the "Three Jokers" comic, which never clearly revealed which joker was which. There's like 1000 jokers, and Jason has killed soany of them that it's kind of pointless at this point.
I love how all the bat family are just too damn good-looking for their own good hahahaha Bruce, jason, dick, Barbara, Tim, Damien, and literal all the others😂😂😂
You forgot to mention in the ending of the Red Robin storyline, Tim Drake talks Jason out of killing Two Face. And in the end Tim Drake becomes Bat Kid who’s Red Robin’s sidekick and it’s kind of a happy ending in my opinion.
Just goes to show how much of a simp the "great" Batman is. He'd rather save the Joker and let him continue to fill more graveyards of his victims than let Jason just finally end him, because he's too much of a coward to do so.
