One of these days, we're going to have a computer powerful enough that we can input all the information about the planets in terms of size, mass, and everything about their orbits, and it will be able to extrapolate far enough into the past that we'll be able to discover when and if Titan was captured, other massive objects that passed through the solar system, and all kinds of groovy things.
It isn't a matter of compute power. It is a matter of Chaos Theory/Complexity Theory. Small errors in input measurements quickly lead to vastly different results.
"All" information is going to be problematic especially since we can't track planet 9 as yet. Perhaps if/when we can do that, then we might be able to resolve some anomalies.
Wow ... Let's change the orbits of these frozen moons to be elliptical, so gravitational forces from Neptune will heat up the moons. Maybe they'll then be easier to terraform and an atmosphere will appear.
Could it have been planet 9 captured by the sun as it passed close by in interstellar space that caused Triton and others to be ejected from their old positions?
I have a Funk & Wagner encyclopedia from the 70's that stated that Pluto was considered an escape moon of Neptune. An interesting claim so many years ago....
Just by way of setting the record straight, since a certain porch was often referred to by Ed McMahon on the Carson show (I think)... It is Funk And Wagnalls.
Tremendous stuff, as usual. Anton, it's not just the superb quality of these presentations, it's the fact that you can put them out daily that amazes us. Thank you, and please keep at it.
@@douglaswilkinson5700 @ the mirror and the signal of sound reflection stream paramore's the new's for the projection of window through heart Stream Melanie martinezes weird body merge album you guy's had no right tot make the music that killed me in reality and to have set my portals up to begin with get the fuck out of my body merging into me and trying to control my movements get the fuck out of my body blowing me kisses im not fucking interested get out of my frequency you had no right tot throw one into my window of refleciton get the fuck out of my body merging into me stop blowing me fucking kisses entertainment through the signal space had nor gist tot merge into me get the fuck out of ym body margining into me.
Hey now. I post MULTIPLE youtube video comments per day, every day, where's my appreciation post?? 😭😭 It's my awkward Autistic smile, right. That's so unfair 😭😭 /kidding (mostly)
@@douglaswilkinson5700 And that means what exactly? Anton doesn't deserve praise? He shouldn't get credit for any of the work? You are completely aware he started this channel all by himself and was still putting out videos everyday? Did someone transform and train you into a useless piece of garbage, or did you study specifically to become that?
Neptune certainly controls Pluto's orbit in gravitational resonance but the closest they ever get is 16AU due to their orbits being out of phase. There is a large number of other KBOs known as 'plutinos' with the same orbital resonance.
Wouldn't it be interesting if they found out that Pluto was actually Triton's lost sibling that got thrown out of the Neptune system while Triton stayed? But what of Charon? It would be poetic irony if it was originally a moon of Neptune that got captured by Pluto's random close fly-by.
Triton is not only 3 degrees colder, but on average it's 1.5 BILLION km closer to the sun. I know once you get out there, it's not a lot of sun, but every little bit makes a difference.
Nothing that far away is picking up much heat radiation from the sun. Tidal interaction with an ice giant planet would generate a lot more heat than it would get from the sun.
I wonder if Titan is just an example of what worlds like Triton and Pluton would be if they received more heating from both the sun and in their core via tidal heating
Worth mentioning that those atmospheres extend really really far out relative to the radius of the objects themselves. Triton's exobase is 950 km high, which gives it an escape velocity of 1114 m/s rather than the 1455 at the surface. With an exobase temperature of 95 K, that's NOT high enough to hold onto a nitrogen atmosphere for billions of years, and Pluto is similar in this regard. Both likely completely replace their atmospheres over time.
@@RadicalCaveman Yes, but Triton is below the freezing point of nitrogen, while Titan is well above it. Nitrogen is not mobilized in places like Triton and Pluto anywhere close to what it is on Titan. So those objects are going to hold onto their nitrogen quite a lot better.
The first (and only) mission to Uranus and Neptune was Voyager 2, launched on August 20, 1977. It's a shame that almost 47 years later, we are still waiting for the next mission to the Uranus and Neptune systems.
Has astro propulsion technology improved enough for this next mission to reach Triton in a reasonable amount of time? Are we still looking at a 10 year flight?
@@orionsimerl6539This is an excellent point. The Trident mission would have launched from Earth in 2025 but would not have reached Neptune/Triton until 2038. So, it would have taken 13 years. So, hopefully by the 2030s or 2040s we’ll have nuclear propulsion that cut the time to get there.
What do you mean by enough gravity to land a rover? They certainly have enough that a rover would not fly off into orbit by driving if that's what you mean. 1/12th Earth. Something 1000 kg on Earth would weigh 80 kg on Pluto.
Yes, there is enough gravity for rovers. We have also deployed asteroid rovers, which have far less gravity. MINERVA and MASCOT doesn't look like traditional rovers, because they roll their entire bodies (with internal rotating weights to provide the motion). With very low gravity, round wheels or tracks aren't really necessary.
It is a fun exercise to pair planets in the solarsystem as they were originally formed, and then work out the collisions, what moons would have formed, or captured as they split, migrated, and eventually a few of them found stable orbits like we have today.
Anton, that smile is great! :D It reminds me of a friendly pit bull. Love your channel. You move fast, you don't over-explain, and I appreciate that because time is important to me. I'd really like to see a program about you. Your biography, where you grew up, went to school, and how you finished up wherever you are in the world today. Maybe do it in a Zoom call with a trusted colleague.
While an intriguing possibility the problem is that Pluto is in a 3:2 orbital resonance with Neptune without actually coming close to each other. (supposedly the closest they ever get is 16AU) Would there have been enough time for such long period orbits to evolve from a near-collision to such far passes in the history of our solar system? Triton is most likely to have formed as KBO but identifying it as Pluto's twin is likely a stretch with current evidence.
Why couldn't Pluto and Triton have been a binary pair then Charon comes along gets captured (with it's different composition) creating a 3 body problem destabilizing the Pluto/Triton orbit causing Triton to get kicked out while in an orbit inside or near Neptune's orbit?
Pluto is a planet we definitely need more missions to. It's one of the most fascinating midgets in the solar system. While we're on the subject of exploring the Solar System, any news on faster engines to get probes to the outer system faster than currently? I swear I could cycle to Pluto faster than NASA probes go.
Ion thrusters like those used in some asteroid probes are more efficient and can therefore gain more velocity for a given mass of propellent, at least once they are in space. Nuclear engines are being talked about again but that is for the future and the cost might be prohibitive for many non-human missions. However, I think the biggest thing weighing against somewhat faster travel times is the three way tradeoff between cost, travel time, and mass of the probe. The mass of the probe affects how capable the probe is, how many instruments they can put on it, etc. Given those tradeoffs, I'm guessing they always choose lower cost (which means higher chances of the mission getting approved) and more capability over faster travel time. Cheaper, heavier lift launch vehicles like SpaceX's Starship or maybe Blue Origin's New Glenn might shift those equations, but there will still be trade offs.
Assuming every planet in our system coalesced from the same gases they're all siblings. With all this recent debris it's clear that some rogues came through. I think Mercury is from different neighborhood, nothing left but a core.
I wonder if it might be possible for Mercury to be the core of Theia, the hypothesized planetary body that slammed into the primordial Earth and created the Moon. In my alternate hypothesis, Earth and Theia would have been involved in a glancing blow that would have resulted in the core of Theia being deflected towards the Sun and parts of Theia's and Earth's mantles being sheared off to coalesce and form the Moon.
@@allankolenovsky7028I’ve always wanted more info on that event. I’m not sure how much we could even learn. I’m no scientist so I really have no ideas. But the ideas fascinates me. Could that be where we got so much water? Or would that vaporize beyond coming back.
@@daemon4621 If I recall correctly, a lot of the water we have has been proposed to have come from a storm of comets unleashed upon the inner Solar System by the migration of Jupiter into the inner Solar System. That migration and Jupiter's migration back outwards through what has been proposed as the "Grand Tack" hypothesis, might have really shaken up the outer Solar System. I know that it has also been proposed that Uranus and Neptune did a fair bit of migrating as well. One astronomer proposed a theory that a fifth body was needed to be present in the outer Solar System for all these complex migrations to have occurred. That fifth body presumably was kicked out of the Solar System. But...what if it wasn't? What if it was merely sent out into a much distant orbit? What if it is the mysterious Planet 9 that has been recently proposed in an effort to explain the orbits of TNOs? All of this activity would have resulted in a horde of icy bodies streaking into the inner solar system. What we see today in terms of the planets, their moons and their positions within the Solar System may all be interconnected and be trying to tell us, in plain sight, what actually happened in the early Solar System.
@@allankolenovsky7028 A glancing impact seems more likely with earth inheriting a lot of Theia's crust and some formed our moon. I've convinced myself that Mercury is the core of a transient planet.
@@daemon4621 If I recall correctly, a lot of the water we have has been proposed to have come from a storm of comets unleashed upon the inner Solar System by the migration of Jupiter into the inner Solar System. That migration and Jupiter's migration back outwards through what has been proposed as the "Grand Tack" hypothesis, might have really shaken up the outer Solar System. I know that it has also been proposed that Uranus and Neptune did a fair bit of migrating as well. One astronomer proposed a theory that a fifth body was needed to be present in the outer Solar System for all these complex migrations to have occurred. That fifth body presumably was kicked out of the Solar System. But...what if it wasn't? What if it was merely sent out into a much distant orbit? What if it is the mysterious Planet 9 that has been recently proposed in an effort to explain the orbits of TNOs? All of this activity would have resulted in a horde of icy bodies streaking into the inner solar system. What we see today in terms of the planets, their moons and their positions within the Solar System may all be interconnected and be trying to tell us, in plain sight, what actually happened in the early Solar System.
Not only does there need to be more funding to space agencies to greenlight missions to the outer Solar system, we need breakthroughs in faster forms of propulsion, like nuclear plasma rockets, so we can actually get probes out there in reasonable time frames (in addition to getting people to Mars and back in weeks rather than months.)
Maybe Pluto & Triton were binary planets and something knocked Triton out of it's orbit and then later on Pluto and Charon became a new planetary system.
Dunno where that came from..I was just listening to Anton and sort of started musing about what standing on the surface would be like or if it wouldn't be a complete disaster. The material temperature of your boot is surely going to make a huge heat difference and what would slipping and falling over on frozen gases be like even...I am thinking that regaining your feet might be very difficult in a suit that any part of it also has a heat differential. It could be extremely dangerous.
It's ultra-cold water ice. It's not going to melt because you step on it. Even if it was dry ice, we can handle dry ice. You can hold it in your hand. It's not slippery, at least not especially so. There also wouldn't be efficient heat transfer.
NASA should be planning for the cheap and reliable heavy lift capability of the SpaceX Starship. Instead of the clever gravity assist celestial mechanics missions like the typical planetary missions, we'll soon have the capability to send relatively large instrument packages anywhere in the solar system, direct. They can carry enough fuel to fly directly and brake when they arrive. NASA should be sending robotic probes pretty much everywhere, leveraging a lot of common instruments for these Explore The Solar System missions. Generally, park a large camera in a polar orbit and map the entire object in high resolution (visible, IR, UV, etc.), while measuring electromagnetism, cosmic particles, gravitational field anomalies, etc. Even better, NASA should farm out these missions to a private company to save taxpayers a lot of money.
I'm a big believer that all planets and major moons should already have orbiters sending back detected information! It's not like we haven't had the technology.
We really need a Uranus and Neptune orbiter mission to study these planets and their systems like Cassini or Galileo did. Triton especially would be a lot easier to send a probe to study than Pluto.
We really need to go back to Uranus and Neptune and learn more about then. But Mars hogs almost all the funding and yes distance is a big factor since Mars is much closer. Still I wish to see them send at least 2 orbiters one to study Uranus the other one to study Neptune.Not likely to happen in my lifetime.
I’m not KIDDING, you read my mind! Or we were thinking this same thing. I was researching this and I still have the wiki windows open from 48 hours ago. I was literally reading about this a day before you posted and now I get a really good description from you. Thank you!
Absolutely EVERY captured Object surrounds a planet in an Orbit which is inclined to the ecliptic, not to the planets axis. It's even so with the Earth-Moon system and obviously remains this way over many billions of years, obviously "forever". Well, you may guess, what I want to tell. Triton's orbit is inclined to Neptunes rotational axis, which clearly shows that it is NOT an ecliptical object aka former dwarf planet, but a moon of Neptune from the beginning and never really left the system. How we can explain it's orbit, that's even more a mystery but we have to find answers for the orbits of objects without violating the rules of physics, which a captured Triton would do.
I would like to know how much it Cost (& Takes), to put a Mars type Rover on Triton. NASA could start up a Semi-Assembly line for a Rover that's had all the bugs worked out, capable of equipment swaps for particular projects, Standardize them, there's no reason we shouldn't be exploring all our Places.
That is exciting, maybe I'll get drunk! Maybe if their was a black hole floating around Triton, that would even be more exciting! That was nice that Pluto is named after a Disney cartoon dog (that doesn't talk like goofy).
I've said this before on Anton's videos dealing with the "ice giants" and I'll say it again here - we *need* a joint mission to send orbital probes for Uranus and Neptune. It's just not right that all we have in terms of up close observations of both worlds and their fascinating moons was a brief flyby of Voyager II in 1986 and 1989 respectively. Despite more discoveries having being made from ground based and space borne telescopes in the 30+ years since (including finding new moons and confirming Voyager II discoveries of moons around Uranus that had remained uncertain because of the limited time the probe had in the system), there is nothing that can compare to placing a probe in a orbit to do an extended study.
It's a funny thing. I suspect like many as a child I tried to imagine how we got today's solar system, starting from what I knew about it's formation. Frustratingly the only option I could really come up with was a form of 'cosmic billiards' to make sense of it all to me - frustrated because even then I could appreciate how tremendously unlikely such a scenario would be to get to where we are today... ...and yet the 'official' view indeed looks very much like cosmic billiards - just goes to show tremendously unlikely is not impossible.
Theory: Pluto and Triton were a double moon until they encountered Neptune. Triton was captured (but in a retrograde orbit) and Pluto was ejected. This theory does not explain Charon and Pluto's other moons.
One day, in the next 100 to 200 million years or so, assuming mankind is still around, we'll have to start moving Earth further out from the Sun to save our planet.
Not mentioned here but surely should be added into the equation when examining this hypothesis about relationships between Pluto and Triton, is Charon, Pluto's binary partner. All of these mysterious, far away objects can help us understand star system formation processes, so it is unfortunate that the planned mission to the Neptunian system got put back. Instead, with minimal information, the planetary migration crackpots get another shot at our evolution.🙄
Just don't give up, never give up, take care of business, go to the fair, play the game. They got vapes with the batteries, should have thrown them away in the year 2,000. Water or bust, nobody can stop water, its high and mighty, do what your ladies tell you like a robot.
Yeah sure and weren’t you yesterday talking about how you discovered aliens on Titan or some moon around Jupiter and also how you been discovering green galaxies. Save it bro you’re exhausting
This is interesting as it makes the case for declassifying Pluto as a planet. By focusing on Pluto’s developmental history a little more closely, we may discover new things like this potential relationship between Triton and Pluto!
One cannot help but Wonder if such a binary pair were it still to exist could it possibly explain planet x I asked this because you said such objects should be common in the kuiper belt and we're having difficulty spotting what the math says should be there so 🤔
The second capture theory seems most plausible to me. As far as I understand, the lighter partner in a binary system is more likely to be captured, which suggests that Triton's long lost partner may actually be even larger.
So Triton orbits Neptune in the opposite direction compared to the other moons. This is strange and makes me curious about how Triton was captured by Neptune. Is it due to collision or gravitational interaction?
Nah son Pluto was actually massive and these are just chunks of it floating around our solar system and the universe… it’s been battered and copping all the shit flung towards us from behind for billions of years now slowly breaking down getting smaller and smaller, our last line of defense from the rear slowly withered away till it can’t maintain its rotation and slowly falls back towards our centre… huh
This is why I think it’s stupid Pluto is not a planet because if this had really happened and the criteria is it had a clear its orbit then what if it did originally clear its orbit and just got moved further in and basically had to start all over again, which could take billions of years. Honestly we really need a for sure answer to what is really a planet beyond orbital path because how many of are other planets cross orbits so they would make them non planets wouldn’t it.
