Evolution and the Nature of Consciousness | Dr. Tony Nader with Dr. Susan Blackmore 

This conversation was absolutely delightful. So much joy! And just the perfect amount of knowledge for the situation.

Dr Blackmore wrote in one of her books, and she repeated her dogma in other places, that dreams are a sign of a brain starved of sensory input. She added that in the dream you can't read text because dreams are fuzz (because the senses are not on). So, according to Dr Blackmore, when you are in a dream and you pick up a book, the writing will be chaos and smudged, because text is not possible in the brain malfunctioning and firing off dreams! This, argues Dr Blackmore is proof that the brain makes consciousness. Alas, this pompous dogma, which claims to know what 7 billion people are dreaming, comes out of the confident and clever mouth of Susan Blackmore, and with confidence taken seriously by the majority of curious people who respect her fun personality and psychedelic hair colour. Materialists like Dr Blackmore make statements like the above and other presumptions with a certainty that doesn't reflect my experience, and probably yours. I have had dreams that, in the dream, I can clearly read a sign post. I've spoken to other people who have had dreams where writing is clear. But like Dan Dennett saying consciousness is an illusion, and a generation before Dennett, the philosopher Gilbert Rhyle arguing you don't actually dream, these materialist scientists are taken very seriously indeed.

Very absorbing discussion. Thanks

I will listen several times to better understand. Dr Blackmore speaks quickly, she is original and sympathetic, very lively and speaking with skill and intelligence. DrNader brilliant and refined as always. Beautiful. Thank you.

Dr Blackmore was asking for predictions and one simple one is the Maharishi Effect. Why no mention of that?

No matter how many times I listen to Blackmore I still don’t understand what she believes. It just come across to me as worthless babble. She basically disregards everything, stands for nothing but likes to use big words. In a debate she had with Bernardo Kastrup I think he hit the mail on the head. A conversation with Blackmore is “useless”.

I was very disappointed with this interview. Dr. Nader had a wonderful opening when Dr. Blackmore challenged him to justify his science of consciousness by presenting testable predictions. Instead of pointing to the internal research done by himself and other practitioners of Transcendental Meditation, he stuck with a dry, cerebral philosophy that simply says that consciousness is primary. Every example Dr. Nader gave was in the relative, the materialistic world of the behavior of animals, people, and things. Using examples from materialism to prove nonduality is impossible, and Dr. Nader showed this impossibility clearly. Dr. Blackmore's challenge is easy to answer. One prediction that Dr. Nader's theory of nonduality makes is that humans can achieve what they search for by looking within. Specifically, we all search for lasting peace and happiness, but have difficulty with the "lasting" part of that desire. Transcendental Meditation provides a simple, natural, and effortless mental technique for exploring deep inside our mind and actually transcending the mind entirely, so that we (as awareness) can self-referentially experience ourselves (as awareness). This prediction is repeated everyday as hundreds of thousands of people practice the technique of transcending and experience the peace and happiness of awareness within ourselves, eliminating conditioning and internal stress through the deep rest of the fourth state of the physiology and of consciousness, and living the results in our daily lives. Science says, theorize, then predict a result and validate it by experimentation or observation. That is just what TM does. Why didn't Dr. Nader say this, as Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's chosen ambassador, in response to Dr. Blackmore's open-minded challenge? I guess we will never know. But I'm deeply disappointed. Dr. Blackmore really shined. Her interest in extending the Theory of Natural Selection to more complex human behaviors is genius, her deep understanding of the scientific method is rare on the Web, and her background is fascinating. She saved this interview from being totally useless.

Dr Blackmore asked what is consciousness conscious of…. what is the “it” consciousness is conscious of? I would suggest that a newborn is certainly conscious(ness), but is not conscious of anything, not even conscious of itself. A newborn is a prime example of pure consciousness. It needs approximately 2 Years to become aware of itself as a separate being, which happens through the acquisition of language, the construction of a conceptual world it will inhabit from the age of about two. (Language is the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden)

Aatmiya DIVINITY HARE KRSNA Experiencing excitement & unexplained eagerness to quickly communicate soon after hearing this interview. DIVINE (Dr. Susan Blackmore) is averse to the word *CONSCIOUSNESS* and in a way she is Right 👍▶️. While DIVINE is right, she is unable to suggest/propose alternative word for CONSCIOUSNESS. This is because of her non accepting the very definition/qualities of CONSCIOUSNESS. Perhaps, her search be now for an appropriate precursor word to the CONSCIOUSNESS which is yet in it's UNMANIFESTED state During this dialogue Consciousness and Awareness are projected as Synonymous, but it is Unacceptable. This is because Consciousness is REAL and ONE ONLY where as Awareness could be many more and RELATIVE. Awareness is depending on the kind of Object/Information/stimulus of Experience which is resulting after their appearing in the Consciousness. Consciousness does not in any way produce Awareness. Consciousness is only enabling the Object/Information/Stimulus to REVEAL themselves as Awareness. Evolution of NATURE- [Unmanifest] -------------- Manifestation of ISHVARA - GOD - KRSNA. [Here, ISHAVAR/GOD/KRSNA are name/form/qualities /material energy of the Incarnation/avatar]. Aatmiya DIVINE, Consciousness is eternal, everlasting, unborn, unchanging, immutable, permanent, omnipresent, omnscient, omnipotent, all knowing, all overseeing, all permitting, Irreducible, invisible formless while Awareness is now, here, conditioned by space, time, matter, energy. Very respectfully Loving ❤️💞 ING You One and All DIVINE ❤️ NOW and HERE and FAR MORE in this Light and Moment and Vibrations Experiencing Happiness, Satisfaction and freedom of desire, fear, anger, greed keeping 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

40:00 How does having consciousness as the fundamental substrate of reality help? I'm sorry if my thoughts are incoherent since I haven't chewed on them too deeply, but I think it helps explain the direction of the universe (the process of complexification: the increasing and simultaneous differentiation and integration of parts working together as a functional whole), synchronicities, children with memories of past lives, and paranormal phenomena. I've always wondered why the religious/spiritual scientists/mathematicians who were attuned to reality were the ones who seemed to have the deepest insights about reality. Some, like Ramanujan, claimed to have received their insights from divine sources. Without a feeling of awe/reverence/spirituality towards reality, I don't think one's mind can integrate with reality to gain the deep insights.. A bigger question is if all of this is true, what the actual eff are we a part of? What is this? Why? And thank you for the love lol. What does this mean about aliens? Whaaaaaat isssssss thissssssss? Seriously!

Nice sir Jay hindurashtra

*Jai Shree Ram 🙏🕉️🙏* Respect from Guwahati, India

Wow, Dr. Blackmore is really quite famous, but I guess pretty much a physicalist. I will listen with interest whether her opinions have changed over the years. I really love her hairstyle!!! What a free-spirited lady. I also like the way Dr. Nader conducts his many interesting interviews. Such a great breadth of different researchers and philosophers - that has been missing so far!!

"The comfort I get" from pronouncing it "meaningless".......very interesting (Think, "Laugh-In", the TV show); I am just asking where is the flow that humor brings........and all and everything needs us to live in the question.......The Buddha and many others would caution us to consider otherwise. Nevertheless we can extend to all what Ibn Arabi called "the reality of love" a kind of refined energy that has its own intelligence, compassion and strength to love the comfortable and the uncomfortable. Without some sense and understanding of the unmanifest, which is very much either lacking in our world today or it is mainly just stuff the mind makes up, we sort of remain at sea. "I think where something called consciousness that is conscious of itself is quite confusing to begin with." It certainly is. In no way is it obvious and can't be realized without a great deal of refinement of the energies that give us our "knowing". You can't make yogurt without yogurt. The refinement can result in a growing sense of presence and at some point this growth can be seen to be "being" and not just mind stuff as we know it. What is the meaning of "let the dead (old concepts of the first born personality) bury the dead"? We do this for ourselves and we do if we have intimation or inkling of what it can reveal. Wonderous are the ways of the human mind and that which says "I".

If the universe is an independent physical reality, then it is logical that to find out what it really is, we have to search for what is known as elementary particles. This is precisely what Physics have been doing. A lot of success have been achieved in this but one particular stumbling block which has lasted for 70 years is the inability of Physics to merge General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics ie the failure of coming up with a successful theory of Quantum Gravity. This is led some physicists to turn attention to the role played by consciousness which plays a critical role in Quantum. On the other hand if reality is fundamentally based on consciousness, then the logical way to understand reality, is to search for elementary consciousness. This is the equivalent for the search for elementary particles in a physically real universe. To understand elementary consciousness one has to reach the state of what is known as pure consciousness. Consciousness without any content. This is the experiment that needs to be done. It is however subjective in nature. That is inevitable because consciousness is always subjective. That is why it is always associated with the Self, or I.

Fantastic conversation! Congratulations to both of you, Dr. Susan Blackmore and Dr. Tony Nader.

that was hard work

Don't be so obsessed & there is nothing to get obsessed when it's simple my dear fellas. Just learn to know your true self by being conscious that's it & when you guys do that you guys will flow towards ultimate truth ! Not yet, anyways Thankyou ' God bless!❤️ 🙏

U dosent even ask sadguru i can answer just do yoga u will get what y wiag

👍🇩🇪

Love from India i am studying medicine too sir

love u sir ❤️❤️❤️ from India 🇮🇳 radhey radhey ❤️

Very nice content. Thank you very much.

i want to join you sir ji 🙏

Sir namaste 🙏