I do like some of the more modern approach to hardstyle, but honestly when i listen to the older scantraxx stuff, between '06 and '10, that's just more original. Everyone sounds the same these days, chasing after that trendy sound. Back then, everyone had their own sound, especially kicks.
10000%, especially if you're making it without a DAW, without samples. Thankfully I found a solution on my Virus that works *PERFECTLY*, but damn it took me FOREVER to get there.
I'll always love classic kicks. Modern kicks...50-50. I like to call modern kicks nowadays as heavy clicks. Really miss the crunch of the classic kick and I think it adds a lot of character to a song.
Classic kick wins for me every time. A friend and I were talking recently and I expressed that it seems in a lot of modern hardstyle, artists are subbing out creativity for loud kicks and kick switches instead. Almost exactly what you expressed in this video haha.
I’m kinda new to Hardstyle, and i fell in love with the classic kick. The first time i heard a modern kick i thought it was annoying😂 The modern sound had definetly grown on me, but nothing beats a classic euphoric hardstyle anthem❤
It's sad to see the classic kick fall off in popularity. I don't mind the current kick, but it is, in my opinion, VERY generic and almost sounds the same as other artist's kicks. I feel that this made even the sound of hardstyle kind of bland when it comes to melody and creativity.
@@JimijaymesProductions yes he is the only one to discover the magic of hardstyle . the bassline of kicks ❤❤ but now new born babies are experimenting on kick and calling hardstyle. shame
i like the classic kick more and wish there were more new tracks utilizing them over the modern kicks. modern kicks sound a bit boring in my opinion. when a lot of things are playing at the same time you often just hear the ultra distorted punch or piep, and then it just sounds like a sine wave following after, the fact that it's distorted can easily get lost in the mix.
It's not that I don't like modern kicks... but I really, really miss the warm upper lows and the crunchy mid-highs of the classic kicks, and also I prefer the less aggressive punch. The punches of some modern day kicks sound like someone punching a lamp pole with a knuckle iron lol
@@ishankero9699Sadly it's the big producers too, just ain't no going back to the golden era scantraxx sound for most of them. But we can still create stuff that sounds like it came from that time period :p
I love the 2010 tok, you've got going on, and the way the distortion on the bass "shakes the speaker." It's very enjoyable to me. It's so warm and alive.
You are right that the classic kick costs more to do than the current one, I am used to creating classic kicks, it is much easier for me to do the current kick with less work and faster.
for me i love the classic kicks more , the modern kicks are okay and fun for a really raw track but the classic kick just works better in euphoric tunes just sound better
I like both. If the kick matches the feelings and expressions that the track wants to give. then its good. we could argue wich kick is best, but I think a more fair questian would be what type of kick matches the rest of the track best.
Def prefer the 2010 kick. There are some modern kicks that are awesome too. Most of the stuff from Crystal Lake gives me that classic vibe but also like a retro 80s vibe. Highly recommend!
The thing is, that you can't even simplify it like this. Every producer makes the "modern kick" and the "classic kick" completely differently, so to generalise it like this is kinda rude if I say so myself.
Classic Kick always! Especially the pitching sounds way more better compared to modern kicks. Modern kicks are not made for that and sounds horrible in the pitching
Idk if this is objective fact, but I've noticed a lot more experimental kicks in newer hardstyle (especially with the whole kick-switching midintro trend and the rise of producers like SZP), and I like that. I think working with a simpler FX chain leaves a lot more room for experimentation and quick iterations. In my experience, classic kicks are like a house of cards in the sense that they fall apart very easily even with small adjustments, so producers (including myself) tend to get rather conservative and play it safe, which might be why they stayed kind of same-y for so long. I find myself playing around with weird rhythms/punches a lot more with modern kicks, while classic crunch kicks feel limiting and frustrating to work with. Classic crunch kicks have their place, but I think the expanded palette we have now is a very good thing overall.
Cool. Kick takes the cake haha love it. Anyway, the modern and new sound good to me. At a rave, I like to hear a bit of everything. I'd say it's not about the kick itself, but the overall experience. I like to hear fifty different kicks! There are times that you forget about everything and you're in another world of ecstasy...so time, your legs, your energy, your hydration, your hunger or the judgement of people around you don't matter anymore. There are some of those epic times where you're in an entirely different state from analysing the kick and thinking about stuff. I'd like to think of it as you're just flowing beyond your body, environment and time and you're just one! Haha cheers mate. But appreciate your breakdown.
This is insanely well explained. I had been wondering why producers have been shifting to a less "good sounding" but harder kick and now I understand the scene. Thank you!
I also realized that the modern kick is settled more on the thirds, fifths and seventh, whilst the classic one covers the first fourths of the hamonic spectrum. Anyways I like to listen to kicks, that are well processed so actually, what attracts me to a good produced kick are: the gain level of the trasient reffered to bass and sub. Also, if the gating in the mix process was done right and last but not least: how all components work dynamically in a track.
I was never that terribly into hardstyle but I did hear older stuff (with the classic kick in the video). I was more into other genres like metal and hardcore/uk hardcore, from which later I got into uptempo and the even harsher stuff. Nowdays I kinda look back at the hardstyle I knew and when I listen to modern day hardstyle it just sounds so bland, no character to kicks, and with the newer and newer kicks people make it's getting further and further from the hardstyle I'd like to listen to. Of course there is newer hardstyle that I like too but I'm somewhat more fond of the older stuff I heard so I'd definitely side with older kicks (and with music in general)
present day kicks don't have any characteristics in them just distorted noise and sub. Classic kick is hard to produce since you can't distort it as much so it have that wonky tail in it. Classic kick 5/5 and presend day kick 0/5.
The Classic kick is still what i consider to be modern hehe. Imo, prior to that era and forward everything improved in quality, not only hardstyle but electronic music in general. Hardstyle made a big leap, a leap i wasnt too found of but i still enjoy. I really like your classic kick
I do like the older kick especially for slower euphoric, something about the more melodic stuff from the mid 2010s was more chill. I feel like there was a middle ground like on Da Tweekaz stuff, plenty loud and punchy but not as pointy as modern kicks and has a smoother longer low end which works for slightly slower stuff.
Totally agree! Also worthy to note that leads and the rest of the track usually has to be mixed a bit differently for both kick styles. Maybe worth a new educational video? :)
Honestly you can just go for both. I love the character of classic kicks (heartbeat, project one) by exemple, but when you hear a modern track like shake the ground, or headhunterz remix of twilight zone, you feel a power in the low enf that you can’t have with the classic one. You can use both, that’s a musically choice.
Hey Eternize! Thanks for that really great video and your effort you put into content. Thumbs up and follow goes out! 👍 Unfortunately, there are some things I don't agree with. 1. You are talking about dynamics inside older and modern kicks. Older kicks got definitely more dynamics than modern ones while creating them, but at the end of any masterchain everything is again pushed into a limited / clipper and we're losing our dynamics again. Also tracks from 2012 got no 'visible' dynamics. The whole drop is one sausage pushed into 0dB. So technically-wise we end up in the same as in modern kicks. It just sounds so different because of the character itself and the lower loudness that producer aimed for back in the days. To be honest, I think that modern kicks can sound way more dynamic than old ones, even there is no difference in volume. We definitely should not forget that there is a lot off stuff happening above our true peak value (Click layers, etc). 2.) I don't agree that much harmonics will end up in a better sounding mix. In my opinion the order and gain of those harmonics will just define the sound off our bass. Small speakers will also reproduce kicks with only odd harmonics. Tails with more odd harmonics will end up in a more kind off 'heavy' and 'boomy' bass while tails with even and odd harmonics will sound more 'equal' and 'drivy', 'sticky' or maybe more flowy. In context, I think it's not about pros and cons. It's just about the movement of your speaker and the difference in sounding. Also arrangement-wise. But I agree that many beginners are just focusing on their sub-bass and they're paying less attention to the translation off their tracks. I listen to Hardstyle since 2008 and I am really happy about how the music evolved. It's of course a big thing off taste, but I really enjoy there more aggressive, squashed, clicky and 'in your face' sounding kicks nowadays. Thanks again for your video! It's really interesting to compare those 'two worlds'. Let's see how our music will sound in 5 years haha.
there is one thing the new kick will sound better on big speakers. the issue with loud tail is if you push it enough (like playing it on really loud speakers on festival and being too close to them) the inpact will be relatively weak compare to the tail. so instead of punchy kicks you will get weak puch and then the tail will vibrate your soul.
I rly like the modern kick, way more than the classical, I just think its cleaner and simpler, with more variety, idk I may be dumb but it's just my opinion Xd
Hi Eterzine, as a 20 year old producer living in Sweden it feels like hardstyle have always been so far away from me. Ive been producing edm and trap music for about 4,5 years, ive watched 10 000 of different videos on how to make certain synth sounds or kicks but it still feels like im stuck and that i need to do something different. Currently im making some money out of making trap beats and posting them on youtube and at a beats selling webbsite. But, for many years ive wanted to really dive deeply into the real hardstyle scene and really try to develop as a producer. At one time I even considered moving to the Netherlands just because i know that is the right spot to be as a hardstyle producer. I know you either dont have to read or answer this but i would gladly appreciate it. What would you consider a guy like me doing for getting knowledge and information to somehow "master" the hard dance music and finally drop my first track. Really enjoy your videos and your music btw, keep it up!
Get a mentor! I'm convinced you can shave years of your music journey by finding a passionate and like-minded mentor. Also keep in mind that most producers have 10+ years of experience before they poke out of the mass... You have time :)
Making kickz can be a struggle 4sure. But what did it for me was figuring out that the effects you put before the distortion in the chain is paramount (EQ, Gain for the most part). What’s being fed through the distortion is more important than the distortion you use if you ask me. Some of the best kickz I’ve made were done with nothing but Fruity Eq2 and Fruity waveshaper
This was a great video, explained the differences well with practical examples and it's easy to understand both sides. Good points with the modern kicks also, explains well why it has got so popular and it sounds just like it is to make, rather cheap compared to the "classic" one.
Well, you admitted it at the start, but I still feel like this video was way more biased than it should have been. It's obvious from the examples that you indeed put way more time and energy in the classic kick, because it does sound really good and professional. The modern kick on the other hand, needs a lot more work. I strongly suggest sampling some of Hard Driver's kicks (e.g. All Or Nothing) to make a more fair comparison. They often have that classic "fish" shape and sound quite dynamic and refined, although the complexity seems to be way more present in the punch than the tail. Watching his tutorials, you'll see him use processes and channel strips that are quite complicated. In any case, using the length of a channel strip to argue complexity doesn't really work. You could slap on a great number of plugins that do almost nothing to improve the sound, or you could tweak a small number of effects endlessly to get them just right. Here's another way to look at it: classic kicks have been done to death. One could argue they were pretty much perfected by Noisecontrollers back in 2009. That's more than 10 years ago, and in the meantime some really good sample packs were released, allowing anyone to use a professional classic kick without putting in the work. I feel like this, among other things, encouraged producers to create a modern sound to distinguish themselves - not better or worse, just different.
Modern kicks are over the Internet all the way. I get like 20 raw kick sample pack ads every fkn day. It is just layering a bunch of existing kicks and squash it to eternizey.
@@BinariXMusic I don’t really believe that you find modern kicks that are good and optimized “everywhere”, especially ones that does not have problems. The reason being that one can sell individual modern kicks for a very much higher price than any kick sample pack you can buy anywhere. The clients are out there.
Hard driver is the king of hardstyle music production. His kick actually sounds like the peak sound of hardstyle and is in my opionion the perfect hybrid of classic and modern kicks. The only thing I disagree with your statement about the classic kick being overused to death is that I always beleieve that the direction of hardstyle took a huge wrong turn with the progression of newer kicks like the modern ones these days. The real problem with hardstyle is the structure of each tracks. It's like 90% buildup and 10% drop... no second drops no small mini breakdowns. It should progress like psytrance where you hear the kick and bass for almost 75% of the track. Now hardstyle is like 33% of the track.
@@AAABeatbox regarding the change of modern hardstyle tracks, i noticed that, especially when mixed, the tracks often feel short and rushed. it's as if they don't take their time anymore to let the kicks shine. just a few kicks with some screeshes, phase over, quick melody, melody with kicks, phase over, mix into next song. i'm not really sure if the tracks themselves are shorter so that you cannot play them longer, or if the persons mixing the sets don't want to use more of them and rush through one highlight after another. when listening to older headhunterz sets like the one from amsterdam 2013 for example it feels like each track has time to breathe and presents itself way more. maybe it's just me, idk.
I find that although the modern kick has less dynamics, modern hardstyle in general has WAY MORE perceived dynamics than back in 2010. Even though it's loud as f*ck it's still so crystal clear and breathing in my opinion, so i can't find a trade off here.
7:35 Which is precisely why classic kicks are better. Classic kicks allowed each producer to create their own sound that people could pick out by ear very easily. Everyone can pick out a classic Pitcher, Headhunterz, Noisecontrollers, Wildstylez, etc track very easily.
Classic kicks are way way better than modern kicks. I don't listen to new sounds. I listen only to the old school and old sounds in Hardcore, Hardstyle, Gabber, etc.
Hey Eternize! Very informative video 👍🏻 could you please make a tutorial on how to make that modern style kick, especially this tail? ✌🏻 reminds me of the Art of Creation one (I love their kicks 🧡) 🚀
Well, best oldschool hardstyle was from 2002 to 2006. From 2010 hardstyle started the evolution with euphoric and melodic sounds. For now i can tell that i realy apprecete modern kicks because producers can make more experiments and aggressive things what they couldn't make in classic from 2010. Also now they in raw sounds they can use the hardcore kicks like zaag kicks that's realy unexpected in hardstyle comunity
Hi, congratulations on the video, I wanted to know if you have any templates for sale I also use logic pro x, so I have a basis to understand well how to create a bass drum and bass line
I hate the modern kick with a vengeance. Its pretty much the reason I rarely listen to hardstyle any more. The problem is its becoming more popular and being in other genres aswell, ruining grear tracks with great melodies.
I think that when gabber artists started using modern kicks, hardstyle artists just jumped on board. The slower pace and the kick drum used to be the some of the few things that separated hardstyle from gabber..
Hey great video man Totally agree the classic kick in my opinion is way better. I think that's why there are so many new producers coming threw now because everything is becoming easier and takes less work. Back in the day you could tell who made what tracks by there kicks and lead sound knowadays every track sounds the same. same kicks same lead sound. Today's kicks sound like somebody hitting a spoon against a metal pan just all tok! Same goes for hard-core Unfortunately it's the way it is now and record labels only want that new generic harstyle sound 😕
Plus, as a sound designing related extra note, creating a classic kick that actually sound so good at its own that it's listenable even to those who are not into sound designing is an equally big problem for a producer as Mount Everest is to a climber. There are a lot of classic kicks that sound awesome when put together with a nice arranged mix, but you clearly hear some flaws when played isolated. Unlike, for example, the InQontrol-kick which sound fantastic in almost any mix and arrangement as well as isolated. That finely tuned and polished result is damn near impossible to get and even a seasoned kick maker will have to have some occasional LUCK to come across a result like that. Because what the producer, the sound designer, is actually doing while creating a classic kick is "exploring" using a set of well established methods.
It's more like these days producers goes for the modern kick because they produce for events and not for out of these events, they want to shock people, to hear these "WOOOOOW" usually we hear and, unfortunely, the part of being able to push as far as you can how loud a song is, modern kick just destroy the classic kick. Heck, even I see A LOT of coments talking about that "No, this kick doesn't sound like shit, just listen into a good speakers (AKA on a festival)" and it's like... I don't give a fck sorry? I could understand that on live these kicks are just fcking monsters, but you are not going to hear it at full power everyday, so it would be nice to see producers going back to that type of classic kick and let the moderns one for "live" edits. There is producers like Da Tweekaz that I LOVED their song some years ago, but since their kick change, eventhough I hear what I loved from them... His new kicks it bothers than help the track tbh (I will keep listining to them, but... For the moment... I don't think I will hear again that master class of usage of the classic kick that Tweekaz got).
I agree that the classic kicks sound better in my opinion the kicks of today just sound like who can make the most noise in a kick I prefer a classic hardstyle kick from a rawstyle kick most of the time
Couple of weeks ago i went to a classic hardstyle party (Vroeger was alles beter) and let me tell you one thing, the music was LOUD. Loudness should really not be a goal, they can always turn up the sound system and believe me the music will hit the allowed dB level
what type of kick is 2010? i want to know the specific name, because most of the kicks i hear today are these nasty really ugly rawkick and sharp punchy kicks that really ruined hardstyle. The kicks i'd hear in euphoric hardstyle from 2014-2019 were perfect, then they too switched to nasty raw kick, such an unpleasant sound to listen to, especially live.
Modern hardstyle just doesn't do it for me. Everybody tries to be as hardcore as possible. Hardcore kicks, hyperactive arrangement, and the modern melodies mostly suck a$$. They don't have the epic, euphoric feel to them...
Classic Kick > Modern Kicks anytime anyday any track. The classic kick can be listenned to alone without any synths, arps or vocals etc. Whereas the modern kick is unbearable without a complete track.
New kicks aren’t that much of a problem for me. What IS a problem for me, is that Hardstyle is no longer rave music. Why the f*** are we forced to sit through a cheesy radio song and then get 10 seconds of action, before the singing continues.
I like the modern kick, why? They're fresh. They're different. It's not only about hard. Todays kicks are more uniques because of distortions, and what artist do with them in their track like changing/use more than one or make more unexpectable kickrolls/drops with these. Now harstyle is not only intro-mid-outro sometimes is really mixed. For Example if you think that is the end you've got unexpectable 3rd drop before end.
The best Hardstyle Kicks are from 1999 to ~ 2010. The good old Reverse Bass, Gated Kicks and Classic Hardstyle Subbass is still the best. Im not a Fan of these Dong Dong Kick you call the Classic Kick because it's too soft. I prefer the Modern Kick in this Video.
i always remember the time that in qontrol anthem came out and people in every forum were collectively cooming over the kick noisecontrollers conjured up. wonder if hes waiting for this rawstyle tok tok phase to blow over cause he hardly released anything in quite some time
