@@BiggestProblem And a traditional Christian cross has way smaller arms than the vertical bar. If that's what he meant to put on display, he could've used that.
As someone that has worked as an assistant for professional comic book artists in Italy, I have to clarify that what EVS is doing is common in creative work environments: they criticize and make a point by offering suggestions on how they would develop the idea better. It isn't the same kind of analysis that a critic would offer. Rather, it's supposed to stimulate better ideas. Regarding Avery, the point EVS was making is that his motivations are flat. As one artist once told me: "You need to chop the head of their [protagonist] favourite horse, put it in their bed and watch how they react." A detective story that involves a detective that has no interest in solving the case is - by itself - a turn off, the reader has no motivation to keep reading. So you need to give them something to chew on: either a strong motivation for the reluctant detective to refuse the call; OR a strong motivation for the detective to get involved; EVEN BETTER if you can do both at the same time. But in ISOM, we get neither. A much better suggestion would be to make Jasmine Avery's niece. Then you show us why Avery is reluctant to go back: maybe Avery has a pregnant wife now, so we see him being conflicted because he is about to have a family and doesn't want to screw that up by getting involved with Darren. But Jasmine is also his niece, so now Avery has to make an impossible choice that he won't be able to take back. Same thing at the midpoint: Avery got involved, so you can have Darren sending a message by harming (NOT killing) either Altona or his wife. This would give Avery the push he needs to get his suit back and use a secret identity to save his niece and defeat Darren in the final Act. So no, this is not a "writing the story I want to see" kind of deal. This is what constructive criticism looks like from the creative side: it makes a point about your work by offering different perspectives, suggestions, better ideas, instead of simply saying "this is bad because of x and y". It's the next step, it's how we, as storytellers, make each other better.
Wouldn't make it better, just different. Like Cyberfrog is over rendered. The colors look like clown puke and the line work doesn't clearly define foreground from background. As art, you can say "the audience loves it." As a critique, you can say, make these changes.
Chopping the head off the protagonist's horse is fine if you're writing some brainless "John Wick" BS. ISOM is subtler than that. ISOM is the scene in "Kill Bill Vol 2" where a former killer for hire has to take crap from his boss so he won't lose his job. It's not sensational (at that moment), but it's human, and we can relate. Like Ethan, you're fixated on Jasmine being the victim and Avery being the hero who swoops in to save her. That's a totally different story. Here Avery is the victim who will soon realize that the only way to stop being a victim is to pick up the hero's mantle again. If you're not interested in that story, fine, but don't act as if ISOM should've been what you're envisioning instead. Go find another book that tells the story you want to hear.
@@MichaelJPartyka What the...? OK, the "chopping the horse's head" metaphor applies to every story, every genre, of the past, present and future. It stands for what the character cares most, whether it is money, loved ones, peace of mind, etc. It's basic storytelling. Seriously, where did you even come up with the John Wick BS shtick? That is absolutely baffling. No, in my example Avery is still the one answering the call, a victim of circumstances: he has other responsabilities, but life, conflict - call it whatever you want - chases after him, and the only way to resolve it is to face it. Still as human and relatable as the initial idea. The only one here fixated on the Jasmine-Victim/ Avery-Hero duality is you: she's is still the same archetypical macguffin. The focus rests on Avery and his journey. No one envisioned anything: it was about taking an idea and develop it. I'll say it again: this process has NOTHING to do with what someone wants to see in a story. If you don't like this approach, or can't get your mind around it, fine, whatever - but don't put disingenuous intentions where there are none. And what's up with this "pick something that tells the story you wanna hear" ? We're going off a very basic premise here: a retired superhero is called back to action. That's the only story anyone that picks up ISOM 1 could expect to read when checking out its blurb. I certainly didn't go in demanding a space opera.
@@mrguardwill45The actual "chopping off the horse's head" scene doesn't even apply in the way it's being used here, so let's not pretend *I'm* the one being ridiculously obtuse here. I understand you want Jasmine to be John Wick's dog or Nicolas Cage's pig -- but she's not that to Avery, so go read a book that centers around such simplistic motives. I'd rather read the book about a guy who reluctantly agrees to do a favor for his mom's old friend, hoping he won't get dragged in over his head.
@@MichaelJPartyka What part of "nothing to do with what anyone wants" you don't understand exactly? Sigh. Whatever. Let's just end it here: you don't like this approach of giving feedback; you think it's a matter of imposing one ego over other people, even when it's clearly not. Fine. Moving on.
I remember Shane Davis and EVS talking on a podcast saying Eric July really does not give you to much to go on for the cover. So they just draw what they think is interesting. They did not even get to look at the issue first or even read the script. So they just have to wing it.
That's a great idea, hire people to make covers for your comic, but don't give them a clue bout what's supposed to happen in the comic. I'm surprised Eric even bothered to show them what Isom's supposed to look like. Or maybe Davis and EVS had to find out for themselves?
Thats clearly a lie for Ethan because he had bloodruth on his cover who wasn't introduced yet, he had the books enemies on the cover, so he knew some of isom 2s story and the characters.
@@Firebird1968 well Ethan said on a stream awhile back Eric made them sign a NDA where they was shown a few pages of the book and maybe answered some questions before they Drew it. Also anything Ethan says now will be bad faith because he is full of hate
Minute 8: 41 "We don't even know that it's a cross. It could be a plus sign." --Perhaps due to the settlement with the christian ministry, that symbol may indeed now be a plus sign.
Why would a character have a random plus sign on their costume? That rrally doesn't make sense. But then a cross doesn't really make sense either for a non-religious hero. But I think you have a point about changing what the symbol is because of the lawsuit. It's all stupid, but Eric isn't exactly a theoretical physicist.
9:14 haven’t read ISOM. Didn’t really catch my interest. But are you saying that 2 issues in(how many pages is that?), we don’t really know the powers of the main guy?
@@MichaelJPartykaI mean. I guess that could work. It allows you to make it up as you go along if you need a quick deus ex machina. But why not kinda hash out what your hero does?
I almost want to read it now to see how that would work. My gut tells me that it’s like your characters not having personalities in order for them to never act out of character.
@@lookbach Honestly, at this point I can't recommend it. Maybe if ISOM #3 is any good I'll be able to say, "Buy the set." But so far there are no standout issues that would make me point anyone to the Rippaverse for entertainment.
Disagree with you on Jazmine. You need to have Avery care, it’s forgivable if he’s reluctant but not apathetic. If he doesn’t want to do this he doesn’t have to at all. Just say no, that’s it. And I believe the reason EVS wanted to make her a child was to make the audience care and give a sense of urgency and heroism to Avery to save a child being exploited, rather than a grown woman making compromising life choices.
Avery cares. He might not care for Jasmine directly, but he cares somewhat about her mother, and he definitely cares about *his* mother. We don't always do things for people because *we* care about them -- sometimes we do things for people we don't care about because others care about them, and we care about those others. That's what I like about ISOM #1 -- Avery starts off entirely self-involved but by the end of the book realizes his actions have had consequences that will require him to broaden his caring. The problem with readers of Ethan's stripe is that they want this hero's journey to be all over in issue 1. But it's a three-issue arc. (I do think issue #2 flubbed the midgame, but that's not issue #1's fault.)
I bought the book, the art is very subpar…you don’t see that? Also the story was all over the place, on top of that the character is unlikeable. I didn’t come back for issue 2 but I wish him luck
EVS has a point with the art. Not necessarily on filling the spaces he specifies, (I certainly don't agree on the Avery and his neice pic, I thought that worked well) but that, as a whole, it felt a bit empty. Equally, as you say, when a page is too busy it can just become the artistic eqivalent of white noise - there's a balance of the two which hits the sweet spot. For me Perez and Byrne both nailed that. With the covers, again EVS has a point to a degree as I wasn't a fan of that initial cover. But it can depend what you're trying to communicate as to whether the character looks at the camera or elsewhere. For example: on his cover, it would probably be better if Bloodruth was looking directly at the reader, maybe slightly shocked whilst Isom was more dynamically fighting in the back ground. With that image you'd see Isom struggling whilst Bloodruth is looking at something worse coming which we, as the readers can't see - its an old cover trick but a good one to add drama.
I will say a big difference is with something like EVS overendering you can feel the artist cares about what he is doing to at least invest the extra time and effort, ISOM has very generic/boring/forgetable/simple art. Its not even bad/ugly or something like Liefield cap that you may hate but still remember 25 years after it .
@@daniel79tj Yep I agree re EVS, his art is fantastic, but sometimes you've got to hold back as an artist. Sometimes its the dead space that can create a good picture. I like the use of shadows in Isom and some of the angles, but the figure work looks a bit stiff. Its not bad art though, it does the job, but as you say, it's just not overly inspiring. I think it may have been time constraints, hence the smplicity and emptiness of the pages at times.
11:08 nah that page is confusing for the reasons EVS explained, not to mention at that point we don't even know the guy with the helmet is called Braxwell cause he gets introduced a page later. So you keep repeating Braxwell , Braxwell but that is not really how someone will read the book, he just looks like a cop in panel 2 and the angle makes it look like he was at ground level alongside the cops.
I agree that the introduction of Braxwell is confusing -- I cover that in more detail here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8LT2mIBOeUU.html -- but if you can't follow the fight choreography from there, you probably watch movies with "descriptive audio for the blind" turned on.
I don't care if someone uses 3D models but make the character look the same and not other person. And if the model is not working then draw it. Its a tool like anything else use it smartly.
One of those creatures' claws nearly put Isom out of commission. He should've looked more concerned about getting clawed again. Of course, EVS couldn't know that because EJ held his cards close. But that's true considering the end of the book as well. So EVS should've defaulted to making the creatures seem like a serious threat.
@MichaelJPartyka I definitely agree, it should have been more dramatic; I just wanted to take the piss on the writing. I don't get how the demons went from a massive threat to something Avery could take without fear in the hundreds without coming to any harm. The cover looks representative of the final section of the book, so I was Ethan and saw that, I'd draw something like that cover too. According to Ethan it was like pulling teeth trying to get info about the book to come up with cover ideas.
@6:40 I absolutely agree with you. Ethan needs to use positive and negative space better, he needs to understand areas of rest vs areas of detail. He thinks its all about detail. He is too myopic in his approach to art and it has stunted his otherwise great art work..
The critique sounds like EVS' version of, "If I Wrote ISOM #1"..There were a couple of valid criticisms,but I'm glad that i checked out Cyberfrog,to get some insight on the creator,who's style is the opposite of Eric July.Thankfully.
It probably is, but a cover is more than an ad when it's showing action -- it's supposed to be a representation of story, and few stories are less interesting than, "These characters are being attacked...but, hey, they're cool with it, no biggie."
Especially when it's your launch issue and no one knows who the main character is yet. Thank god it's not on shelves in an LCS because I would look over it every time with that bland cover.
Commenting as i watch: I always contended that the best way to get avery involved while maintaining his status as retired hero and fotting within the hero's journey is to have him say no and Altona get involved, and get in way over her head, where Avery would have to get back into the hero game to save his sister, where darren took it too far and Avery has to fight to save her.
I also dont agree that characters on a cover should be looking looking at the viewer. Its difficult to pull off something unique that isnt boring T poses or a foreshortened punch. Plenty of examples of iconic covers where the characters are not looking at the viewer. This is not a rule artists should adhere to always. 100% agree that EVS over renders. Heard him plenty of times say that detail (rendering) equals more value. Tell that to Mike Mignola. It almost comes across like over compensating. EVS's art is like a Michael Bay Transformers fight scene. Somethings happening on screen, don't know what though.
Using 3D like this is really really bad. Its fine if you pose for reference if you´re having a difficult time with foreshortening or perspective or lighting, but outright tracing is a terrible practice. Plus, it's by no means smarter. In the time it takes to set up the shot, pose it and mess around with angles you could have sketched out 25 relatively detailed thumbnails.
I gotta say Mike i agree with you on this one. You've shown you can be fair but at the same time nitpick EVS on his own work. Any piece of art can be criticized and nitpicked. This whole feud is stupid and I wish Ethan would stop because his story telling and art is far from perfect.
Well, the fact that EVS' art comes with its own flaws isn't reason that he should abstain from addressing the flaws in others' work. No artist is perfect and each could likely help the other improve. I can't draw worth a crap myself, but hopefully what I say as a longtime reader can offer some tips for improvement.
@@MichaelJPartyka no but hes only doing it now to pile on because of his feud with Eric. Its petty and he needs reminded his art isn't perfect either which he gives the portrayal that he thinks it is and uses it as an excuse to deliver books 2-3 years late.
I do understand EVS points of view and I do side with him. But I'm not saying your wrong. Its kind of like I hate shows like CSI but other people love those shows. It just does nothing for me.
I wasn't prepared for how bad the artwork is. Like the dreadful 'STEALING SOLO' by World Class Bullsh*tters, the stiff-figure 3D tracing betrays the artist's fundamental lack of talent and basic story telling.
Ethans Isom 2 cover has both Isom and Bloodruth with blank stares like you pointed out, when they are being swarmed by hostiles. Isoms neck is huge and looks nothing like the characters build, the only person I've seen with a neck like that is Mike Tyson. Personally I think cover A was the best Isom 2 cover.
2:47 they have dead expressions. EVS does this with all his people. Ever since he started drawing comics. He focuses on making "pretty renderings" not actually telling a story.
Isom is one of the most generic looking comics I've seen. Terrible art and after watching the EVS review I have to say that the book looks to have NO story and the characters are garbage. I was pulling for Eric when he first started promoting this and it seemed like a good idea. Eric is NO creator. Yes he made money and that makes him a businessman, it does not make him a writer or an artist. The "Rippaverse" won't make a dent in the history of comics...no one will care about a character named Yaira or Isom.
I definitely respect him for coming from nothing and putting out a successful product. Buuuut with that being said isom is a very generic looking book with a very paint by numbers story yet people are just claiming this, crowdfunded comics and manga are just destroying the big 2 yet at least the big two have wild stories with fantastic and varied art. Isom looks like you could by it at at Walmart at a coloring book section.
Now, hold up. Eric is getting better with his story and what he's building. Something, when it comes to aspiring writers like myself, we will make mistakes. But at least we have the confidence to keep moving forward, unlike EVS whose more who wants drama and cares about having a monopoly in Comicsgate. Of course, you're one of his cult members so I get you don't care.
@@cicolasnage5684”coming from nothing”? The guy’s astroturfed. He’s propped up by the blaze and billionaires because he pushes their conservative values.
So this is what EVS is doing instead of finishing his books? Lol , at this rate Snowman won't be fulfilled until 2027, and people payed for it back in 2020. Anyway, interesting video, Mike.
@randommcranderson5155 All Caps Comics, which Ethan Van Sciver owns, took the money, it's his responsibility to produce the book promised. Whether it's hiring artist, writers, colorist, Inkers, etc. If he can't, then he should honor the refund requests his own backers are demanding instead of ignoring them.
