EXPENSIVE EV CHARGING INSTALLS - Why Installing an Electric Vehicle Charging Point Can Cost a Lot

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EXPENSIVE EV CHARGING INSTALLS - Why installing an electric vehicle charging point can cost a lot.
Join me as I discuss a recent quote I had to do for a customer where the job wasn't nearly as straightforward as they expected. In this video, I talk you through my thought process as a designer of electric vehicle charging point installations and show you how complicated it can be to do a proper safe electric vehicle charging installation.
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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 359

@artisanelectrics 7 месяцев назад

Request a quote from Artisan Electrics here - app.openquote.net/company/artisanelectrics

@AndyK.1 3 года назад

Solution is to use zappy with CT in the original cable. When shower or immersion on, car charger will stop

@artisanelectrics 3 года назад

Watch my full EV Charging Playlist here: ru-vid.com/group/PL2u_ypf5vMyqQe9mb7V1ohQg-2TgVZJ34

@UKtownsendj 3 года назад

I would have allowed the 2+ way consumer unit for the house and the ev charger, put the house on a suitably rated breaker and have it as a D curve. Its unlikely they will ever be at maximum current for prolonged periods of time. Great video as well! Love the content! Spoke to you on Instagram live about the "pricing other electricians EICR remedials" Awesome video on that as well, Thanks!

@iainkay3630 3 года назад

@@UKtownsendj is a D curve okay for residential? I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it even with further devices downstream as it has to protect the tails and would require 10-14 times the rated current to trip. Surely you’d only need that with some serious moor loads and nothing domestic?

@jeffrz10 3 года назад

Suggest the customer installs a basic gas boiler in the garage and get rid of the electric heater and shower circuits? There looks to be a gas feed next to the garage from their photos. It’d be more cost efficient to run too...

@UKtownsendj 3 года назад

@@iainkay3630 Assuming it’s gonna be a 100A distribution circuit, it’s disconnection time is going to be 5 seconds. The tails would be in armour as well as they are over 3 metres. This device is only for protecting the armoured cable, as long as the disconnection time is able to be achieved and there is a low enough Ze, then I can’t see how it would be an issue. He wants to avoid nuisance tripping and a D curve would have characteristics closer to the BS88 fuse that is most likely protecting it now. Everything in the house is going to still be protected by type Bs and RCDs. If the SWA cable has a low enough Zs then under fault conditions like mechanical damage causing a short circuit there will still be sufficient current flow to trip it in the rated time. I think the highest Zs would have to be (Voltage x Cmin) / 10xIn) which is (230x0.95)/(10x100)=0.218 ohms for a type D 100A to still trip in 5 seconds.

@aldozilli1293 3 года назад

Hi I have a Delorean plugged in most of the time. It has a flux capacitor and draw is pretty strong so I can get the 1.21 gigawatts it needs. Is this compatible with an EV install?

@AndyFletcherX31 3 года назад

I guess you could put the current sensor on the garage CU and limit to 40A on that circuit. Chances of the load from the granny flat being maxed out is pretty small at any instant of time so it shouldn't impact the car charging speed too much. Would save a load of install work. IANAS (I am not a sparkie).

@pppscooby 3 года назад

Guess its an option to present to the homeowner, do you want charging speed or have you got budget constraints and can live with slower charging rate.

@ThePrawlin 3 года назад

This is absolutely the way to do it. The other ways are insanely expensive overkill. Zappi is perfect for this scenario. Also, I doubt in practice that the car charging would be slowed down hardly if ever. Just warn the customer that is a possibility, I’m sure he’ll be happy with it. Even with full 32A going to the car, you still have 8A spare before any charge current reduction would occur!

@davidfaraday7963 3 года назад

@Grip Electric Limited Yes, but how much slower? Assuming most car charging is done overnight when the load from the granny flat would be zero or close to it it could well be the case that it makes very little difference.

@peto22 3 года назад

That would be my solution, and if car won't charge fast enough, there is already planned route for larger supply cable from meter box to garage CU.

@petermichaelgreen 3 года назад

A potential issue I see with such a setup is you would want to limit both the load on the garage circuit and the total load on the installation. Are the zappi chargers smart enough to implement two limits at the same time? say a 40A limit for the distribution circuit based on a local CT and a 60A limit for the whole installation based on a wireless link to a harvi? Is the wireless range enough to monitor the overall installation power remotely?

@joesinkovits6591 3 года назад

I live in the US and am thinking about getting an electric vehicle to replace one of my cars. Although your electrical systems are quite different from ours, you’ve none the less given me important logistics to consider. Thank you!

@brushlessmotoring 3 года назад

I have an EV in Canada, same electrical as US, it's worth noting that you can start off using a regular 110v socket to add 50 miles of range overnight, or 120 miles in 24 hours, a lot people considering an EV think they MUST get a dedicated high amperage charger right away, but, for me, 2 years later, and with a panel upgrade needed I've decided I just don't need it for my daily driving. Your mileage may vary. Check out PlugShare to see if there are any alternatives near you already.

@doncodman913 3 года назад

Wow . Out of general knowledge would you mind explaining a bit more about the earthing problems you mentioned . Like why earth rod not suitable and other points about why certain earth methods were not suitable . Hope to hear from you ,regards Don.

@thomasbonse 3 года назад

The earthing rod dilemma is a result of how the UK power grid delivers service and the shortcuts taken in that delivery (for cost savings to the benefit of the DNO).

@doncodman913 3 года назад

@@thomasbonse .Hi Thomas. Thanks for the reply. I am aware that you can get a different earth rating at different places ( if that's the correct terminology) like if the jacuzzi at the end of the garden was earthed through the board it can be different to an earth rod.near the jacuzzi . Just would like to see something to show if the wrong method is dangerous etc. I know I need to get a better hobby. Lol. Regards Don.

@tje_plumber445 3 года назад

your headphones with that jumper are giving of huge cyber man vibes xD

@georgedaville4662 3 года назад

Mind blowing complications. I had enough problems threading an armoured cable through a duct to the garage the builder had installed and kinked instead putting a bend in! Comprehensive analysis of issues that can arise in what on the face of it looks a simple job. 👍😎

@hatter8709 3 года назад

Have a similar issue now with a separate garage having realised that the original supply was insufficient to have a charge point fitted. Fortunately were having some work done on the house at the moment and have asked the builders to dig a trench and lay armoured cable to the garage in preparation for an EV charge point install at a later point. The work to the house already involves swapping out the house consumer unit as it is full and I've asked them to consider that an EV charge point will be added soon. Electrician working on the house is not familiar with EV charge point installs though, so hoping there is not more complication when we come round to it.

@RichardArblaster 3 года назад

Would be interesting to see how much you've quoted in a follow up video 😎

@lappfjard 3 года назад

I'm happy to see the didecation to detail. Thats what make all the difference. I usually say to my trainees "imagen making a clean an neat job but all the labeling is crooked, what is the costumer gonna see?"

@TheDominicRichardson 3 года назад

Hypothetically, assuming the granny annex could be vacant a lot of the time, could you run the Zappi off the garage consumer unit and set a 40A grid limit with the CTs on the main feed into the garage? Obviously not ideal if annex is lived in - but if for holiday lets / friends staying over etc, could be a cheaper / easier solution to quote for?

@alexacb63 3 года назад

You'd want to change the garage CU to not be on an RCD in the main board (to avoid the EV charger tripping out the entire garage), at which point you need to verify the cable is of an appropriate type / route to do that, and then add an RCD / swap MCBs for RCBOs in the garage, so that's still quite complicated...

@stupot_64 3 года назад

@@alexacb63 Not possible as the supply to the garage feeds through the fabric of the house so needs to be RCD protected.

@Marco-mg9tv 3 года назад

@@stupot_64 twin and earth running through the fabric of the house does not necessarily mean it is concealed in walls it may just run above the ceiling straight outside .

@effervescence5664 3 года назад

As soon as I saw the garage I knew it'd have an annex above and be on 100A domestic house supply. I do tend to suggest Zappi with EV-Ultra cables in this scenario. You can get an enclosure with Main Switch + cartridge + spare ways for the addition of the dedicated supply so the house is on the 80-100 amp cartridge and then supply the garage/ EV point on say a 63amp breaker. (Take the garage off of the house CU and link the EV cable at the garage to load limit entire installation). Other things to take into account, why is there gas to the garage and an electric shower? A combi boiler would of been a better use of total demand. These are all things generally I would bring up as I'm not just a sparks I hold all the qualifications needed for gas and plumbing so when doing site visits I tend to explore and ask all the information I can and potential clients future plans to make sure to minimize disruptions/ double charges/ visits etc. Mainly because I got fed up of working for people that would do work for a client, say nothing when clients threw out ideas for the future and then go back and have to undo my previous work to allow for new alterations/ additions.

@karlcuk 3 года назад

Are you able to share a link? Neither my spark or myself could find one. I could do with a switch fuse for the house and 3 spare ways for ac, garage and car charger. Thx. I wondered if you could move the contents of a Hager switch fuse into a larger enclosure.

@bzubhipheron 3 года назад

Can you potentially fit the Zappi to the garage consumer unit and put its CTs in that consumer unit to limit that whole installation to 32A, then the Zappi will just lower consumption to stay within the safe load of the existing garage cable (even if it peaks at 40A) and at most a third of the main grid fuse?

@damiancox7276 3 года назад

As a consumer I am confused why the DNO wants a 3rd party to check the maximum load before my chosen installer can fit the charger, we have ordered a Zappi which I thought negated this very issue, so no we are waiting and waiting for a site check, which I just don’t see what it will show? My garage feed which is fairly new and cannot be used as per your excellent walk through so binned that idea and went straight for a very expensive new pole mounted solution in the drive, not expecting the DNO to send someone out in ‘2022’ to give the green light…..frustrating wait

@danielelise7348 3 года назад

I hate to say it,but all you guys do these days is EV installs & it's getting a little bit tedious & very predictable,but I guess if that's what the people are asking for, then their wish is your command.I just love those commercial 3phase jobs that come out of nowhere,oh well I'm still going to watch because I love you guys & support the channel,keep up the awesome work fellas 😁👊

@artisanelectrics 3 года назад

Thanks for your support!

@faisalmoghal4055 3 года назад

If you're going to run a new cable from the meter cupboard to the garage, why not upgrade the feed cable to the garage CU? Then run the EV charger from that garage CU. Still run in EV ultra cable all the way for the CTs, but at least you future proof their garage too for any future installations.

@danclark114 3 года назад

Watching this reminds me why I am glad I had a 140kVa 3 phase supply put into the house 4 years ago, running 2 second gen TWC's at 22kw without any loading concerns. I highly doubt I'd be able to get that size supply put in today.

@edc1569 3 года назад

Do you have to pay extra for such a service?

@johndevine6288 3 года назад

Love the video and all the other videos from Artisan Electrics I have watched. The EV charge point subject brings up a lot of design issues as you have pointed out here. I am confident you and your team will put quality into the installation from start to finish. If we put quality (infers reliability as well) first over cost and have an easy to use solution for the customer, then these are the main benefits as the total cost of ownership over time compared to a petrol/diesel/gas vehicle will be well worth it.

@Cablesmith 3 года назад

56k subs now ! Well done mate that’s incredible. I started watching your channel when you were at 3k 😱

@artisanelectrics 3 года назад

Thanks man

@bellas_switch_adapted_toys 3 года назад

@@artisanelectrics check out Cablesmith Electricals latest vid, he's got a far easier job for you.! Get a leaflet through the door 🤣 might be a bit far for you, but less of a pain than this one 😉

@Cablesmith 3 года назад

@@bellas_switch_adapted_toys haha even i was thinking 🤔 what is he on about 🤦🏻‍♂️ then I realised ! Jeez I only uploaded it today and forgot myself 😂

@bellas_switch_adapted_toys 3 года назад

@@Cablesmith hahaha 😆

@gmhandymanpropertyservices3942 3 года назад

I’m thinking about getting an electric van but have an old consumer unit that has Ashley super safe mcb’s , have spare ways available but wondered if I could avoid a new consumer unit by finding a compatible mcb

@eliotpalfreman1232 3 года назад

That was deeply interesting, just looking into retraining as an electrician so have been watching your videos as they seem to provide a really good glimpse into the theoretical parts of being an electrician. I was wondering if an option could be to use power storage in the garage as many of the loads in the granny flat seem high demand but short term (cooking and showering) then using a battery set up to charge in times when there is lower demand to feed the car charger? Again thanks for the videos and sharing your knowledge, it's ace and very generous.

@edc1569 3 года назад

Surely a zappi can just load manage the situation. In commercial installs you’ll run dozens of chargers off of a supply that could perhaps only support a few.

@highgaineventtech 3 года назад

I would wonder if it would work out more cost efficient and future proof to get a 2nd supply installed by the DNO into the Garage as let face it there is almost a 2nd dwelling above the garage. As by the time you factor ground works and trying to balance the demand to make it fit on the house supply plus the risk in the future of a 2nd EV Charger point due to the double garage. Wouldn't it better to bite the bullet and just fir a 2nd supply. There is then a reduced need to worry about long cable runs / cables to CT's the only possible issue would be the range of the Zappi to the Hub to connect it to the internet for the app to work.

@edwyncorteen1527 3 года назад

As you say, fit our favourite Zappi charger with a Grid limit set, this will automatically reduce charge rate or stop it when Shower etc. are in use.

@simonwilliams7025 3 года назад

Really useful video thanks! Just awaiting advice on my own garage EV charger install, very similar to this so it’s been a great help 👍

@cbcdesign001 3 года назад

The trouble is this existing installation is pretty poor to begin with. Having a granny flat over a garage using the mains supply from the house was a cheap way to go and is now coming back to bite them. When the granny flat was built they should have installed a separate supply to the garage/granny flat at the same time.

@deaxes 3 года назад

If you're going to go from the meterbox, why not upgrade the granny flat's incoming cable and run the EV from the garage breakerbox (US term for consumer unit). It looks like it needs it.

@frankief7111 3 года назад

What's on the other side of the wall behind the switch fuse (inside the house)? If you could put your small consumer unit inside and then send the armoured back out to the EV charger it would have minimal impact to the existing installation. Agree with you, if possible leave the switch fuse and avoid putting something in the DNO box. Also the armoured in the garage looks small to be 40A. Managing the load and using that garage connection seems easiest but if it was my house I wouldn't want that.

@ProfSimonHolland 3 года назад

do they actualy use all that power in the granny flat? could you install a current limiter only on the garage supply ... and limit the ev charger to times and power, when it can take advantage of little or no power being used by the garage building? ie..,at night... also limited the ev charger to below ? amps max from the the house supply... see if the customer would be ok with that.

@hotrex7779 3 года назад

What is the option to upgrade garage feed cable to take the new loading ? Fed from the external meter box . Also what is the limit on the CT cable length and size of cable You talk about using the data cable to connect the ct. ? Normal Ct circuits. Don’t drive into long lengths of cable . Interesting project

@Deiphobuzz 3 года назад

I'd forget about all that. Install a nice rcd/mcb in the garage. Add a carlo gavani MID meter before the main breaker in the garage, install wallbox charge station. Open App on phone, tell it its a single 40A feed and the load balancer will take care of you. People charge their cars at night anyways. When granny is showering and doing everything else at the same time, the Wallbox will just slow down to 6A or stop. Give the water heater, if a boiler, a timer. Say, heat between 0400 and 0600. That way it wont come on during peak charging hours, and the wallbox will dump all available power into the car.

@TheRichardHonor 3 года назад

How come you're not allowed to install additional equipment in the meter box? Our EVSE was installed by add an RCD inside the meter box rather than the consumer unit (even though there was space in the consumer unit)

@bilvis1985 3 года назад

Garo priority board in garage. No brainer. Shower will never run for more than 5 mins once in a blue moon. Proposed solution way OTT

@joemoore9991 3 года назад

I’ve just booked up to do the C&G 2919-01 EV course. I was looking at how much you could make from each job and the timescales for each job as some of the prices I’ve seen some companies start from would be impossible to make money from. Do you get a lot of customers expecting it to be a simple job and then thinking you are trying to rip them off? The way I see it is you with pretty much always have to install surge protection in either a small consumer unit or change their existing consumer unit as a minimum. Sorry for rambling on.

@edc1569 3 года назад

Honestly good quality car chargers will have just as good surge protection built in - they’re just metal oxide varistors (MOVS). Don’t worry about upgrading the rest of the installation unless it’s absolutely necessary to support the charger.

@joemoore9991 3 года назад

@@edc1569 thanks for your reply. So on most installations you can just run an 6mm2 armoured or something similar from an MCB and as long as your charger has pen fault protection and some sort of surge protection that will do the job? I thought that there were a lot of chargers on the market that didn’t have either built in to be honest

@ValdoxGaming 3 года назад

I would make redundant the garage submain and upgrade that from the meterbox and then run the EV charger from that sub board. This way the main switch in that board will isolate all electrical equipment in that dwelling.

@avforums 3 года назад

Really interesting video

@corbett666 3 года назад

I’m in an annoying but exciting situation that I’m getting my new EV the same day I’m moving into a new build. Trying to book the install for the same day or soon after, but it’s proving hard and I can’t get the photos required. I also have a detached garage and the house consumer unit is literally the other corner of the house from a very distant garage. Looks like my garage is on a 40amp fuse, as I took a photo of the house consumer unit when I looked around. Is that enough for just the charging outlet?

@dipdobdab9202 3 года назад

Sway them over to a Zappi. Install a harvi and CTs on meter tails.. install 2nd CT from Zappi to 6mm SWA on garage CU, limit 2nd CT to 40A and main to whatever the cut out hrc is. Problems you may get is wifi signals for the hub? May have to extend their wifi if not good enough... they may only use the granny annex for the kids visiting now and again so load limits wouldnt be too bad on charging! Ring up Myenergi if youre unsure on the setup, they will walk you though what you need for the install

@dipdobdab9202 3 года назад

To add.. ive just got to the t+e part... if that 6mm t+e is anything other then clipped direct then it needs to go back either on a 32A if not passing through 100mm insulation OR on a 20A if passing through 100m+ insulation im afraid or is non compliant.

@dipdobdab9202 3 года назад

The installer has put ref C, but is this true as it appears they have put down C for all the circuits?

@jamesbirrell4351 3 года назад

Have you looked at upgrading the garage supply(depending on route) and Installing an evc with built in load curtailment?

@renral69 3 года назад

I am always lost wondering why electricians don't provide cabling and consumer for potential future usage! I was taught to install a board so that it runs between 66 and 75 percent capacity. That means id have put in a 10mm instead of a 6 ready for potential additions and allowed about to 2 extra spare ways for every 3 or 4 circuits installed.

@UkSkin 3 года назад

If the garage consumer unit is already close to or over capacity run a new armoured cable to the garage board then run the car charger off the existing garage board?

@pooledp 3 года назад

So is the garage/ annex not on an earth electrobe as I’m assuming it’s got water supply etc!? If so you have items ( light fittings on the stake ( TT ) and your charger is on the PME????

@robertburrows6612 3 года назад

I would want to know how far away from the CU is the front door ? Would running the cable for the EV charger via the front of the building be a better route? Or would it be better if the Garage and granny flat be better served by it own 100amp supply and meter. This is a difficult one. With the info supplied the only option is fitting a small CU in the meter box. I'm with you on this I don't like fitting CU in the meter box. The justification you can use us the meter box is the property if the house owner . But with limited space can you fit a small CU with a double pole Henley block with a warning block , where would you install PEN fault device ? With a house and granny flat, is the EV charger ever going to be maxed out? Are there ever going to get the full benefit from it, I can see long charging times ahead for the EV charger. People have got to find out what the requirements are needed to install an EV charger before buying EV. Most people are under the impression that you just need a 13amp socket hay presto 10 minutes later there car is fully charged

@kiers1970 3 года назад

Saw the other day. EV charger installed by approved installer. Henleys after the meter. 63 A switch fuse with type a rcd. From Henleys to new switch 16mm tails all enclosed in the meter box. Swa clipped not cleated. Prob in and out in hour and a half. Cost 750

@artisanelectrics 3 года назад

🤦‍♂️

@angusbrown8707 3 года назад

Could you not surface clip the armoured along the brickwork to corner of house then use catenary wire to the detached garage ? That would save digging

@TWOKDOK1 3 года назад

Or dig very short trench under slabs.

@jensschroder8214 3 года назад

There could be a lot of electricity on the neutral. That means neutral and safety earth could have a voltage difference. Especially with one phase. On three phase less of a problem. You would have to specifically ask in the electrical trade which slow fuses are available. Since the UK is no longer part of Europe, I don't know whether European solutions are possible. But there are slow fuses in Europe for that. They are only available on request and order. May by they are also in UK available?

@jan-dr1xl 3 года назад

why does the cat 5 cable need to be armoured? If its run in the duct with the supply the only issue is to ensure its insulation is suitable rated .As for the BS88/mcb dilemma would a type D mcb for the house supply be an option?Finally you could always run a catenary instead of digging up the garden :-))

@markmilligan6616 3 года назад

Bit odd that you ruled out the Andersen A2 it has power balancing

@c.j.designs 3 года назад

Yes I thought this I have one installed with ct clamp, the Andersen installer told me it is to allow the A2 to reduce draw should the overall house usage be to high. I’m on a 100 amp breaker but it is a big house.

@paulwheeler5094 3 года назад

What about a Tesla Power Wall? It's more money but it's more than a solution for the just the immediate requirement, they could possibly go back to using the Anderson charger too

@karlcuk 3 года назад

We had a similar problem getting a feed to our garage. Our electrician ended up splitting after the switch fuse and running in armoured cable to our garage in the same size cable as our house. It's not that far away so the cable cost wasn't too bad. I couldn't find a Hager HRC fuse holder for 80 amps when I looked. I thought you might have to ended up buying a switch fuse which used din rail components and recasing them in a bigger enclosure. Or installing a physically smaller switch fuse to make space for a small CU in the cupboard. If you do find a Hager fuse holder could you kindly share the part number? We are going to need to revisit this as we are hoping to add a/c and zappi.

@amaseaman 3 года назад

Because there is a big probability of having two EVs in the future, I would do a new separate cable from that box outside the house and I would run it on the facades of both buildings in metal pipes with lets say two supports above the fence between buildings, instead of digging around the gas an water lines. The garage circuits would remain untouched.

@cumberland1234 3 года назад

Just thinking along the lines of the Tesla charger, does the o-pen devices need to be installed at the source or could it be fitted inside the garage? I’m not sure on how you’d go about splitting the service in the LHS cabinet, I know Lewden do a 100A switch fuse that looks to have a spare way in it but I don’t know if it can be used for an MCB. For SPD possibly Wylex REC2SPD in the main cabinet.

@danpaul4975 3 года назад

My charging install would be expensive and not simple. I'd need maybe 30m of cable because my garage is at the rear of my property with my (old 1980s) consumer unit at the front of the property on a 100a fuse. My garage has its own separate dedicated circuit on what looks like a 1980s pop out fused unit at 30a so clearly would need replacing along with the existing armoured cable probably! Electricians here just don't bother replying when I show them the photos.

@normanboyes4983 3 года назад

Nothing to stop you trenching and running the cable yourself.Get a spark in to test your installation and the armoured you think may need replacing. Ask him to specify what size/spec cable you need for the EV charger load, cable buried in trench and then establish from the charger manufacturer what they recommend re - screened Cat5/6. If digging 600 mm deep trenches ain’t your thing employ a labourer cheaper than a spark for a trench.

@speedmytube 3 года назад

Why not just install the CT on the garage incomer and reduce the EV charge rate whenever someone is showering or using another high current load from the garage board? Brief reductions in the EV charge rate probably won't even be noticed. 40A is plenty if prioritised correctly, no?

@MrMrm324 3 года назад

An Artisan planning at his best

@ForTheBirbs 3 года назад

Not knowing the ins and outs of UK regs - would an option be to remove the existing garage feed from the house consumer unit and run a higher rated feed + data from meter to the garage board so EV charger can run from it?

@chrishampele181 3 года назад

the CU is in the middle of the house, so he decided against that..

@joecole6821 3 года назад

Top quality explanation!

@chrisgerrard9025 3 года назад

I’ve been trying to get an electrician apprenticeship but haven’t got it in a year .do you know what I have to do to get one?

@thomasbonse 3 года назад

Probably offer more money.

@tonynewton7902 3 года назад

Can’t you get a 2 way fuse carrier and upgrade the garage feed?

@JC-jv5xw 3 года назад

Quite. Once the only option seems to be to lay another cable to the garage it might as well be a full 60/80A straight from the meter into a new CU in the garage. Effectively two separate properties but sharing the meter.

@glennrogers6650 3 года назад

Good Grief, so much involved!!

@shanearnull3980 3 года назад

I would of probably changed the supply to the outside garage and put duel rcd 18th edition cu out there before starting charger install

@antonstener1883 3 года назад

I would’ve installed the charger on the garage fuseboard with CTs on the feed to it. I have a 3x16A (11kW) mainfuse and i charge 7kW during the night on my Tesla. /Swedish Electrician

@allan80supra 3 года назад

How much to get a seperate supply installed to the garage from the power company?

@thomasbonse 3 года назад

Would it be cheaper to instead have a separate service delivered to the garage, with its own independent meter?

@RWBHere 3 года назад

I think that is what he is talking about, later in the video.

@thomasbonse 3 года назад

@@RWBHere No, he's still talking about extending the same service, just from a different point after the existing meter. I'm referring to having an independent service delivered to the garage with its own meter.

@Elliot00000 3 года назад

If that little granny flat is all owned by the same person, I would take the opportunity to run in a couple cat 6A cables through the trench whilst its open, especially if the main home is the only building with internet. Might seem overkill now especially if its literally used by a granny. WiFi will not cut it in the future with gigabit internet or possibly for 10 Gbit LAN stuff, which is only round the corner.

@latitudeash 3 года назад

Digging is not expensive. Customer can dig it., but that solution is a suboptimal solution. It is obviously the power requirements going forward to the house will be greater, so get the power company to pull a separate feed into the garage. Customer will be paying two bills. OR get the power company to put a 200A mains cut off fuse into the property and you use 100A for the house and 100A into the gurahe. Than customer pays one bill.

@martinwinlow 3 года назад

First Q I'd be asking the customer is how many EV miles they do a day on average. If it's less than 80 (the national UK daily average being ~30) then why bother installing a fixed charging point in the first place when a cheap portable EVSE would work perfectly well from a standard 13A socket (or if you really want upgrade the socket to 16A CEE to completely avoid any potential long-term overheating issues). But no money in that, of course!

@artisanelectrics 3 года назад

The problem is it’s not safe to charge a vehicle from one of those normal outside sockets as there is no PEN fault protection or 6mA DC protection so you could end up blinding the main RCD and seriously compromising the electrical safety of the whole house.

@martinwinlow 3 года назад

@@artisanelectrics I concede it is not *as* safe but just how many times has a compromised EV charger or loss of earth in a domestic situation actually caused any injury (let alone death)? I'm not saying a proper' fixed EV charge point is not better I'm just saying that the (potentially) 5x extra cost no-where near equates to 5x safer. Besides which PEN and DC issues are often covered by the better pEVSEs anyway. It's the usual health and safety gone mad situation... trying to prevent problems at *any* cost and it simply isn't realistic. But I do like your videos!

@WooShell 3 года назад

One day, even the UK will discover the wondrous invention of a 3-phase grid.. 100A over a single cable is just oof. At least it keeps the driveway free of snow.

@sianwheeldon7090 3 года назад

Very informative 🙂

@SirHackaL0t. 3 года назад

Cold ears?

@apmullen 3 года назад

6min cable with 4mm cpc? T&E is 2.5 .

@jansen202 3 года назад

Use a garo in the garage

@mre3820 3 года назад

Why wouldn't you use a Henley block and split the load off to charger 🤷

@tangoengineering 3 года назад

Change to a 2 way unit

@haydndurrant2800 3 года назад

What’s with the headphones?

@davepusey 3 года назад

And this is why I will most likely just use the 13A plug-in charger that comes with the car. Who cares if it takes a few hours to recharge, it can do that overnight whilst i'm sleeping.

@Flavio93Zena 3 года назад

Ooooor you know, the customer shouldn't be using ALL high-power appliances at the same time? Here in Italy the standard is 3kW, go past 3.3kW and you trip right at the grid. Using common sense would be the best solution to me, and I'm saying this as a customer but also an electricity fan :) Had it been some kind of hotel then sure, you can't know and worst case scenario everyone could be using an hair dryer at the same time for all you know, but that's a private property there.

@Muppetkeeper 3 года назад

Wait until you come to my house, you’d need to factor in a heat pump too 😂

@nigellewis804 3 года назад

Upgrade to 3phase

@1981dicke 3 года назад

Can you show how they lock to the car. As I have been told the chargers lock to the car. As otherwise with more popularity I can see rebellious youths going up roads and unplugging all the cars. Then we can’t go to work with the excuse sorry my cars not charged.

@blobstrom 3 года назад

As already mentioned keep it simple, limit the Zappi to 40A monitoring the garage consumer unit. If they are finding the car is not fully charged and know it is being limited, then it's ground works and a big bill, but at least the Zappi is already there. What was the main incoming fuse size at the meter?

@JasperJanssen 2 года назад

Yeah. The shower won’t really make an impact on charging times if it pauses. The other water heater might but how much non-shower (presumably also non-bath) hot water is thst flat really using?

@Dlc18139 3 года назад

Interesting vid, have you considered a garo Priority board. Would make that install a lot easier and cheaper for the customer.

@lewis94uk 3 года назад

You look like a Cyberman from Doctor Who lol

@artisanelectrics 3 года назад

🤣

@ianm1470 3 года назад

I agree he does lol 🤖 they scared the heck out of me when I was younger.

@FahadAyaz 3 года назад

"I waited for youuuu!" 😢

@jkvan 3 года назад

That was my first thought 😂

@duncanlane22 3 года назад

Would it be worth upgrading the current garage supply? I’m sure you could fit 2 cartridge fuseboard in the one meter box and have one for the garage and one for the house. Run an armoured data cable in aswell for CT, or set it at garage fuseboard to appropriate load. Then in the garage you can just come from the garage board with an MCB.

@j0nA82 3 года назад

I was thinking something along those lines. The existing garage supply is inadequate for what it is doing even without adding an EV charger to it.

@mistermartin82 3 года назад

I was thinking much the same, future proofs the granny flat and garage. Although maybe that would cost rather more (if nothing else more testing on the garage CU)

@bertiebassett1972 3 года назад

I’d up grade the garage supply as it’s close to the edge of what the original can cope with. Maybe with a separate meter so they can charge granny 😉😂

@briwire138 3 года назад

I think I would have put a two pole changeover switch beneath the garage CU and shared the EV charger with the shower.

@Umski 3 года назад

There's probably some 'jobsworth' reg that say 'computer says no' even though it makes perfect sense and would work perfectly well i.e. shower demand = kill car charging temporarily...

@megazeus7972 3 года назад

Changeover switch for the shower and charger?

@caparn100 3 года назад

If you can put something in the consumer unit in the garage that limits the current to the charger depending on what's being used in the garage then you could fit the current measuring device in the consumer unit in the garage and then just connect the car charger to that. Things like showers and cookers are only used for short periods of times where as a car charger would run overnight, so it would have plenty of time to charge up the car when the cooker and shower are not being used. So basically you need a current sensor on the input to the garage with the current limiter for that sensor on the input to the car charger. The limiter will then limit the current to the charger so the input to the garage doesn't go over 40A.

@nickbrennan3925 3 года назад

What this guy said! Well done sir... all too often installers forget that on average EV chargers especially smart chargers are only ever going to be used during off peak times 12:00am to say 05:30am and would never pull more than 30amps. Highly unlikely that customer would have a water heater and a shower during those times.

@nervousfrog101 3 года назад

If you used a Zappi I think you could set the Grid limit to stop it overloading the house fuse and the use a group limit to stop it from overloading the garage MCB. This would make a lot more sense if the garage annex is not used much.

@Deiphobuzz 3 года назад

Yes, thats called a Wallbox Pulsar Plus, with a Carlo Gavazzi MID meter installed before the main garage breaker. Will auto limit depending on actuall load. The only way to do EV here because we got 3x25 to 3x35A max. Three phase power is cool, but for simplicity, i wish i had 1x 100a availablr.

@Umski 3 года назад

Hit the nail on the head - and this is the problem with the legacy of dated thinking of electrics because there is no thought for there being 'smartness' involved in such scenarios - I find the same when trying to 'load balance' our PV output e.g. my immersion is already 'smartly' diverted so that it never exports but my dumb oven tries to pull in 2kW regardless of what the PV is generating - I then turn it on/off manually knowing full well that a moment of cloud cover won't have an impact on the temperature but then I will be importing again - thinking like you're on a starship works well like when they say 'diverting power from life support'!

@norfolkngood8960 3 года назад

You've clearly never met teenagers who when they do shower can be in there for days lol

@Mrtweet81 3 года назад

If you hire an electrician that can afford AirPod Max’s of course it is going to be expensive ….

@Idevendrasen 3 года назад

Bruh they are £549! Damn that is expensive

@mikeselectricstuff 3 года назад

How about power-line ethernet instead of wireless to send the data over the existing power cables, to avoid the need to run an ethernet cable? Can the Zappi have two CTs with different limits? - one on the garage CU to prevent the 40A MCB tripping, and one on the main supply to cover the total load. If not, maybe use something like a Garo priority unit to cut off the charger when granny's using the shower. As the garage supply cable is adequate ( with load balancing), seems sensible to use it as you'll probably need load balancing anyway. Does the customer's car and likely usage actually need the full 32A?

@SirHackaL0t. 3 года назад

A decent wifi access point frin UBNT could act as a relay for data transmission.

@Monkeh616 3 года назад

It's not wifi, proprietary radio. They just use the cat5e variant of the cable to be able to run multiple CTs (yes, the Zappi supports up to 3 iirc.. plus more with additional devices connected via radio).

@Elliot00000 3 года назад

@@Monkeh616 ahh, that sounds like a area that could be improved, I can imagine using standard IP networking could make some installs easier as you could use pre existing equipment. Might be less reliable though, so maybe the device would need a fallback max limit designated by the installer.

@Monkeh616 3 года назад

@@Elliot00000 For the love of all that is holy, no, let's not bolt more crap onto already diabolical unmanaged home networks.

@Richardincancale 3 года назад

Yeah - I was going to suggest the Garo priority unit - they might not even have a granny, and if they do maybe she doesn’t shower often!

@jonboy1000 3 года назад

Why not just run a lengthy from the nearest lamppost? Free leccy too with that idea

@UberAlphaSirus 3 года назад

I think you are over thinking it! Priority switch and done. Does the EV need or use a full tank every day?

@JezCunningham 3 года назад

Absolutely! 12+ hours overnight charging the car, 5 minutes in the shower each morning for Granny.

@martijn-1274 3 года назад

Would it be possible to keep the existing wiring, and use the CT's to limit the current to the garage to 40A? I.e. when you're taking a shower, the car stops charging.

@westinthewest 3 года назад

That seems like the obvious solution to me. It might only be a five minute period every week or so when granny's showering coincides with vehicle charging. I've never looked into the Garo priority units, or the current transformer feature on some chargers, but they are definitely the way forward.

@Chris-hy6jy 3 года назад

Was just about to suggest the same thing 👍

@yougotsniperd 3 года назад

unfortunately the supply to the garage is on a RCD and preferably the charger supply is unprotected.

@effervescence5664 3 года назад

Yes because the wiring to the garage is currently buried in the fabric of the building you can't take it off the RCD, for discrimination purposes you wouldn't want 2 RCD's covering the EV point only one near the car for ease of reset - i.e if a guest stays in the annex and charges their car you possibly don't want to leave the house doors unlocked at night just in case they need to come in while you're asleep to reset a 2nd RCD. Thus the best option is taking a new supply from the outside house box point to the garage which is non rcd protected as a submain probably 63 amp and then feeding the EV point from the garage board or just having it feed straight to the EV point. The former is preferable but the latter may end up being chosen to avoid interfering with existing wiring.

@Chris-hy6jy 3 года назад

@@effervescence5664 never really understood all the fuss about feeding an ev charger with a 2nd RCD. Yes, the upstream one may trip but so what? The supply has been isolated so the protective device has done its job. Doesn't matter which one trips as long as the person operating the car hasn't been killed.

@paulwheeler5094 3 года назад

Could you use a current sensing relay to trigger a 2NO contactor the charger is plugged into? When the shower pulls current it turns the contactor on and disables the charger, when the shower goes off it turns it back on?

@ThePa1ch 3 года назад

Garo priority unit on the shower / ev charger is the cheapest, quickest and best option for the client imo, and you wouldn't need to monitor total demand on the house. £145 is a bargain compared to whatever all this is going to cost.

@tuboid001 3 года назад

Although you then have the issue of the Zappi being supplied through one of the RCDs of the main board and the potential of DC leakage blinding that RCD.

@Skinksalladen 3 года назад

@@tuboid001 Moving the entire garage feed to a non rcd circuit, and having rcbos in the garage could maybe work?

@yougotsniperd 3 года назад

@@Skinksalladen Other than the fact it looks like on the certificate they have ran a T+E cable through the house before it goes into armoured for the garage so that part of the cable needs additional protection from an RCD.

@daverossy 3 года назад

@@tuboid001 The RCD is not an issue with the Zappi as it has a built in type A RCD, DC leakage detection and PEN fault detection so the only protection you really need for the Zappi at the CU is current overload.

@ThePa1ch 3 года назад

@@tuboid001 It's a metal Hager board that either has or can have type A rcds.

@sectokia1909 3 года назад

Just get a garo priority board. Simple ones are 63A, shower will take power, when its not running, car will get power. That should be enough to get them 30A?

@psansom 3 года назад

Direct burial Ethernet cable can be run alongside your SWA for the data connection

@bear-kt4sm 3 года назад

I’ve just installed a Sync-Ev unit. Smallest EV charging point on the market and does everything, pen fault, type A rcd, wifi and hard wire network options + with a clamp reader can read the main fuse to adjust the out put. You can also do this manually. £598 with VAT. Highly recommend it.

@blexaartlett 3 года назад

Andersen A2 does have grid limit capability. It can be set within the installer section in the Konnect+ app. If you’re hardwiring the CT clamps then no reason why they can’t have an A2 🙂

@highgaineventtech 3 года назад

Does the A2 feature PEN Fault Protection? as i thought Zappi were the only current ones on the market in the UK with it built in?

@blexaartlett 3 года назад

@@highgaineventtech yeah Andersen has pen fault detection, grid limit and solar integration although the solar features are basic in comparison to the zappi. There are a lot of chargers with pen fault protection on the market, podpoint, sync ev, wallbox just to name a few.

@highgaineventtech 3 года назад

@@blexaartlett Every day is a school day. i have learnt something new :)

@dr_jonathan_whelan 3 года назад

Does the Andersen they want cope with load sensing & adjustment (like the Zappi) ? Just thinking surely you could install a 32A Zappi (or Andersen if they do it), load limit to 40A, and it would adjust accordingly. Yes it would slow charging speed, but presumably the only thing that's going to use a load of power from that 40A supply is the electric shower ? And that would probably be for a few minutes ? [Not an electrician, just a Zappi fan !]