Guys instead of asking “why is this hunter here” maybe just maybe watch the video because he explains it and then you can comment whether you agree or disagree saying you disagree because it doesn’t make sense why a hunter is placed somewhere when he EXPLAINED it doesn’t help at all
I think the reason so many people were so shocked is bc the cn top tier hunters aren’t all meta against meta survivors. Which seems to make them forget that the whole other large survivor roster is still actively played, and those hunters still fit that category to be effective against them.
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49:33 I would say geishas base skill ceiling is lower than opera (easy to start) usually, but can reach very very high amounts (butterfly blink 🐽) while opera is more high skill ceiling because you learn routes to be efficient and where you can /cannot dash to 🐽
using tournament stats to say hunters in high tier have more chance to win is actually crazy because in tourneys they use the same hunters and pick their best maps but in rank the strongest hunters aren't played everytime AND the players arent pros so most of them make mistakes
That is true, however rank also has the obvious issue of the fact that peak tier survivors can't be in 4 man teams, which i'd argue would greatly lower the placement of some hunters in this tier list if they actually could. There's also just the issue of the rank system being flawed itself, but that's a whole nother topic on its own to be discussed.
point for Lizard man, he can counter FO's pocket watch while jumping. which may sound situational, but it means 1) if you are first chace as FO your kiting time will decrease (if Lizard jumps right before you use your watch and you have to use it again when he lands) and 2) if you are rescuing as FO and Lizard predicts your watch he can slam immideatly and cause either a failed rescue or a double down. I dunno I have seen a concerning ammount of people who do not know this
I strongly disagree with breaking wheel's obscenely low placement in this tier list. You argue that he is unbelievably weak to harassment but this isn't actually true since he doesn't need to use his basic attack to get downs at that point. His wheel form cannot be bodyblocked, meaning he has free rein to land spikes on his target and use pessimistic to secure a down whenever is convenient. If balloon rescuing is a concern he has enough flexibility to bring excitement to deal with it in many situations. Furthermore, the claim that he "has problems catching up with survs who use their item upon exiting wheel form" also isn't really true, since at worst he can use warp instead of blink to catch up if he intends on locking onto a patient or aeroplanist. Either way, he has his traps to block off certain key kiting areas from afar, forcing the survivor to either run towards him or take suboptimal routing that can easily be taken advantage of. The whole point of this character is that he is not weak to distance-gaining survivors, a point which is only reinforced by the ability to bring warp in recent times. In my opinion he should be in either the A or A+ tier due to his specialized utility on maps which are not unfavorable for him and his incredibly strong pressure and snowball potential. And before you go asking about my credentials, I was formerly S1 breaking wheel in season 22 with over 10000 character points, and in hydra with a 90% winrate.
You know ima try to be as brutally honest as I can without making someone cry(although know this community this is unavoidable) Just because something is said from CN players be it TOP tier or not Doesnt make it factual or prime gossip They are humans, not gods. Because in no sane reality is feaster and joseph that high and unironically im right, because while typing this I was chatting with some friends over the doc and one of them noticed the name being familiar and that that person is known for making weird-ish tierlists and to qoute my friend "Cn people throw out statements like x is broken/tier 0/strong all the time, But they don't ever consolidate and formalize their thoughts into a tier list like ever"; Basically TLDR most of CN player tierlists are a cluster phuck and are convoluted.
You are welcome to express your opinion, but please consider your own credentials before you throw out such statements. This Tierlist is indeed something that multiple top Chinese players have agreed upon, and they certainly have a more profound understanding of the game than either you or me. Frankly, your own rank is not high enough for you to challenge this tierlist, and your friend's opinion is certainly not sufficient either, much less to say that CN people throw out disorganized and illogical statements. If you truly disagree, then please list out the arguments in the video that you disagree with, such as "I do not agree that Feaster's camping is that strong". Everyone can plainly say that the tierlist is garbage without further elaboration, but that is cheap and unproductive. Do well to keep that in mind.
@@YaldabaothIDV Just because a player is from CN doesnt mean their tierlist will automatically be good, however that is a mindset many people in NAEU have adopted because CN is a "better server." My problem with much of this tierlist is the reasonings behind the placements are much more niche on the weird placements, such as saying a character is good at full pres makes them strong, despite having a horrible early and midgame (wu chang, also used the reasoning for axeboy), which is a bad point to make cause it requires you to already be mid snowball. The point of very few hunters being 3 cipher kited is also not backed up by anything, a majority of hunters when going into the surv meta comps will be kited for atleast 2 ciphers and 80% of the rescuers. Also, they say in the doc that their points are based off facts and statistics, which are never shown, instead they use niche scenarios which usually already require multiple mess ups from the survivor side or a massive skill difference between the hunter and survivors.
@@YaldabaothIDV and you would do well to keep in mind that idgaf about your supremacy complex, Their word doesn't mean shit, they aren't gods who know everything, and certainly neither the two of you And for one I never did claim I know everything myself. And if me not having some kind of fictional number higher than someone else meaning my opinion is somehow worthless than sure go ahead and say that I know I cant win that pointless contest I have a life worth living and I don't need some fictional number to validate my existence also I didn't know that basic understanding of the game is locked behind higher and higher amount of stars? and if you both actually believe that feaster or Joseph are that high than I don't need to argue jack-shit Cuz I will not waste with someone so delusional and your so called "proof" is as a tree falling in the middle of nowhere, I've been in this community long enough to know that you can't win an argument vs someone who refuses to be able to think for themselves or outside the box without having their head up their ass. And if you think that this is valid enough because "cn pros said so" then believe it so till your final breath if thinking for more than 2 minutes is too hard. well have a good day im off to play tf2 and go to sleep.
This is facts. Then NAEU people meat ride it as facts bc they aren’t good enough at the game to make a conscious decision for themselves. Like you wanna make rank tier lists and stuff? Sure, but then it falls all into who people happen to like the most. The tier list may as well be how much do certain people enjoy certain hunters. The more people play this hunter: the more they’ll win and thus have a higher CN rank win rate. Who cares if the top 10 rank hunters are Feaster players. I’m willing to bet they 1 trick Feaster. The real top 10 hunters are Pro tourney players who have a vast roster and use rank for practice. They’ll play their mains in a counter comp on a bad map to improve, they won’t swap off Feaster to not lose Feaster points and make sure they win or to every game for the points. A tier list formula doesn’t work and doesn’t make sense for rank stuffs to begin with. Feaster is not S tier, he’s not meta, he’s not A tier. He’s C, he’s completely unviable in the end game of IDV bc he sucks. His kit is mediocre and not very accurate when it even isn’t mediocre. You get rotated, any 3 hit surv counters you, any harasser counters you, any support besides object’s launched at you is countered (and those survs consist of like exclusively coord and batter), most kite oriented survs can easily kite a Feaster, especially any that have distance gaining abilities. His camp is not strong there is an animation cooldown that guarantees no rescue can ever be stuffed before it happens you will never fail a rescue vs him, he then needs to down the surv off chair instantly and use gaze on the rescuer who can then just keep rounding a wall as tide ends to avoid the tentacle from full presence. He has no map pressure and no cipher pressure and no end game snowballing. He is objectively bad. Information gathering is also a bad take as an ability in a hunters kit. If it was worth a placement change in their tier then Mad eyes should also be S tier. He’s got probably the best info gathering in the game. Clerk does too. So does Ivy and Dw as lesser picks but still strong ones for that. Yet the tier list Zeus is going off of doesn’t reflect that. Bc it’s an innately bad tierlist. People need to stop thinking no life’s who grind rank 24/7 with one character are good players or impact the meta in some way. They don’t.
I do think it's interesting to point out that this tier list makes more sense if you compare the win/draw/lose rate statistics in CN server specifically, where Feaster, Photographer and Gala have a very high win rate compared to other hunters of the same pick rate. Yet there are also exceptions such as Clerk and Mad Eyes having over 60% win rate but being ranked so low (probably because they take so much time to master?). Personally I feel that it's more interesting to see how different rank metas evolve in different servers depending on tendencies of players, where one hunter is seen as trash on one server is well off in another (in rank of course, tournament is a whole other conversation)
I main ripper and the fact that the only strat that is working on him is the f**ing patience with 20s cd foggy is so sad, even peepers and everything else is unusaible on him exept blink, HE JUST NEEDS blink for the CHANCE of having a good start with double hit. With build i can only go confined + max berserker + max sadist, cus without fast pallet braking u just lose ur invisability in exchange for nothing and without camping enchanters he just struggles A LOT soo..... yeah....... NETEASE BUFF JACK PLS
Also btw I’ve noticed this with a lot of older hunters coming back to hunt, swinging before dropping doesn’t make it faster anymore after the 20% drop down adjustment (no swing = drop faster)
ok update cuz i ended up reading the doc myself and putting a disclaimer that even if i personally disagree with the main 2 im yapping abt and a few others, the majority of this tier list has decent reasoning i can understand. i see what they were trying to say with hastur cuz his camp is genuinely one of the most god awful things to go through in this game, especially with patrollers since that pretty much guarantees after half or a stuff. his chase isn’t rlly that great though since the ai on the tentacles isn’t consistent and i feel he relies more on mind gaming with the tentacles when he’s chasing so idk if this would make him worthy of top 10 but since this isn’t in a tournament lens i won’t judge it too hard. i don’t think joseph is top 10 tho that feels like a troll ☠️ i get he’s tedious to go against but i gotta put emphasis on how they put so much focus on his map pressure but kinda ignore Everything Else that put joseph games more up to genuine chance and the player’s own game sense considering survs in tier 7 and above are obv not gonna be braindead enough to not hide at the start, he’s bad with harassers + over supporting, he can’t deal with flywheel, he’s one of many hunters that get cooked by good communication, and his chase is pretty much waiting for blink and praying. maybe i’m just not seeing it tbh but it also just felt hypocritical cuz a bunch of these weaknesses joseph has were listed and then hunters that have the exact same weaknesses with a more consistent chase or chair camp are rated lower. this tier list is based on stats in cn server and joseph is a popular pick there so maybe im just not seeing the vision tbh.
There is a lot of valid placements here but some are somewhat questionable. Not extremely, but to an extent that sort of harms the credibility of the list, at least to me A large portion of the A+ A- section is confusing: Photographer and Sculptor while not completely weak, are in no way stronger than Wax Artist or Naiad, and they are also not on the same level as Geisha and Dream Witch. Photographer may be annoying to deal with, but this is not "the most annoying hunter" list. His chase is not great, to put it lightly, and his photoworld abilities rely a lot on luck, which all amounts to an extremely inconsistent kit. Both sculptor and photographer are genuinely not at their best in the current meta. Wax Artist's performance does depend on the map and kiting area, like you mentioned, but we are talking about hunters playing in high tiers. At this level, they would definitely take these things into consideration, so it's not really a significant character weakness. I would say that Sculptor is 100% stronger on CN than on NAEU because of better ping. And tbh I personally think that there was an issue with tiers in the original list! The document did explain the reasoning for the tiers - but if the ranking was strictly S A B C D-tiered there would have been much more clarity with the placement of the hunters, at least in my opinion. Regarding Hermit's placement: the document at the very beginning mentions "For most hunters, it will be relatively uncommon for you to experience 3+ cipher kites during first chase," meanwhile his section states "The damage-splitting mechanic can make the process of killing survivors relatively sluggish, especially before Tier II. You really need to consider where to chase people to not get kited for too long during first chase." This is a major weakness, especially In peak tiers (on the CN server particularly!) where survivors absolutely will be able to do a semi-decent kite against a Hermit, and will likely be able to coordinate damage sharing and healing very well. It's kind of a reason why some Hermit players do not connect the ciphers at the beginning - the risk of getting kited for too long because of shared damage is too huge. You do mention this as a "small weakness" but I don't think it's a minor issue at all. I've watched a lot of CN Hermit players and they absolutely struggle significantly more than Ivy or Sangria players. HIs "cipher stalling" that you mentioned in the video is one of the rare cases where hunter's ability can actively work against them! By the endgame, most ciphers will also have a lot of progress due to progress sharing, so the game accelerates quickly at this point, and that is unfortunate to say the least. Additionally, if enough survivors share the same polarity in the endgame, they can survive a detention hit, which is HUGE. Mechanic's growing popularity (especially on CN server) makes his lower placement especially true - you have 5 characters sharing damage between each other, which is awful for hermit's early game. Of course, you can ban mechanic or play another hunter against her! But the current meta is not kind to Hermit I would also disagree with you on "hermit can chase anyone" part. At the beginning of the game, no presence hermit can suffer a lot against characters who can transition easily or have an ability to heal themselves. (Gravekeeper is also a notoriously bad chase for hermit, since he removes polarity during the use of the shovel, but I think you mentioned something similar to this in your video). Insolence does solve some of his problems, as you said, but imo "carry insolence or suffer" doesn't sound like an S tier hunter at all. Also, while he does get a lot of his stuns at full presence they are actually not very consistent. This isn't a character issue really, more of a game engine problem, but Hermit's stuns will sometimes get stuck on invisible pixels, and his second ability occasionally hits the wall instead of going through it. This actually happened in a recent tourney match with an unfortunate result :( I would say that he is a very strong A tier hunter, but an S tier placement is not justified at all, at least in current meta. I think this was a good, well-made video, but the list itself is not quite fair. I agree with the disciple and nightmare's placements - and I think that other hunter players will be able to comment on the placement of their mains better than I can
i think its good we have an insight on what cn players (IN RANK since most people didnt get it) think is the best but its obvious global players arent playing the same meta cn does and people wont start mandatory playing ivy and stop playing robbie just bc a tier list told them so, its an analysis on how rank matches go in their servers in terms of hunter and surv picks, bans and win-lose counters. Also people implying people cant have an opinion on these lists if they are griffin/manti are funny like, i have been in this game for 4 years i feel like someone being this long in the game is qualified enough to know about a hunters ability to win tie or lose 😭
FEASTER I NEVER GAVE UP ON YOU. 12:52 no it doesn't, It will still slam towards downed survivors, iirc the autoaim for summoning them will discriminate though. 15:40 erm ackshilly his tentacles are a solid object so he can down a Survivor and put up a tentacle to block the use of flares, balls, etc
No he’s not he can also shutdown areas for survivors for his tentacles you don’t always have to run patroller you can run peeper or blink too not to mention his change attack as well
@@xytheaxisI'm not generalizing, I just saw some ppl who doesn't know what they're talking abt and are claiming this list is bad, some people actually have some good arguments
@@KeyfulI intended to say in a way that people who aren't qualified enough(not saying that the rank necessarily matters when talking about something) are arguing with this tier list, in my opinion there isn't a big room for disagreeing with this tier list when it was made by top tier and professional players who have way more knowledge of the game and arguments than us
