Exploring a Heat Pump Clothes Dryer | Ask This Old House 

Same :)

Yup me too!

Me too! Even Rich was talking like somebody who watched Technology Connections!

me too

Ironically, I'm not here after watching the Technology Connections video, but I've also seen that video.

😂😂😂😂😂

@@williamlyons3947 How do UK city dwellers (and others) dry their clothes when it's cold and wet outside? Answer: Many people drape them over whatever horizontal fixtures they can find in their homes, including over the radiators that grace the interiors of most UK houses. This, of course, creates other problems. Like rusting radiators, and a buildup of excessive humidity and condensation within the living space itself. To say nothing of the inconvenience of having unsightly masses of underwear, socks, and sheets hanging around the hallways, bedrooms, and living room. It's not an ideal situation. But one that many (if not most) Brits seem to accept without too much complaint. I will note that in the year since I originally commented, UK utility prices, including that for electricity, have more than trebled. A situation that makes Brits even less likely to use a domestic tumble dryer. Regardless, I still use mine for everything except dress shirts.

@fiat.freakx19 How has your combo unit held up over 6 months?

​@kaknu been GREAT! Cleans clothes very well. Drying has been great also, i take out my cargo pants early as it tends to wrinkle them if i complete the dry cycle. Lint clean off about every third cycle. The app works ok, sometimes hard to connect but i find this common as with other appliances ive done this with. Overall this had been a great machine with no complaints or breakdowns. BUY ONE!!

Hahahaha. GE is actually haier. It will break in 6 mo. Then your warranty will be up and it'll keep breaking. Sell it now. We throw them away at work all the time. Juuuuunk.

Keep an eye on mold . FYI . Had a Samsung unit in person in 2018 . The components continue to sweat for hours after use . Mold below the drum and in rear

except that induction cooktops suck

@@bigmikeobama5314 please explain this opinion because I've only ever heard positive things. They heat faster than gas, are more accurate and controllable than electric, the only negative i've ever heard is the initial cost

Which is actually GOOD if you have ventilation problems in the home, get a co2 meter you will be surprised.

@@REALBanannamanI think you mean CO meter. As far as carbon monoxide is concerned you have a problem if you get any reading of significance . This also only applies to homes with gas. The other issue is when pulling a vacuum in your home you are bringing outside air in through all the wrong places (walls,attic,etc.) which is dirty air. If you want some fresh air get an air exchanger or open a window when the outside air is closest to desired inside temps.

@@mmaxx9915 I am purely speaking about CO2, you'd be suprised. Sealed homes with 5-6 people inside running around will raise those levels to 800ppm sometimes, enough to cause fatigue and brain fog.

@@REALBanannaman In that case get an HRV (heat recovering ventilation), your example shouldn't justify an ineficitient dryer.

​@@lukasschmitz1799 That is dangerous. If the power goes out, your home turns into a slow killing chamber.

Why 2 Samsung heat pump dryers. & if u say it dries what model have u please

@@maureenmcelholum1280 same model as this one. DV22N6850HX/A2. I got 2 since the washing machine I have is 2x the size in order to match output

​@mrgylex123 ?

So if your washing machine was 7kg, what size drum on a dryer would you recommend people consider for a full load.

@traybern With respect to your first question, we don’t buy something on that basis. If I wanted quick payback, I’d have gone to a sale of used laundromat equipment and bought a Speed Queen pair. Question #2, 2-3.

@traybern First of all, everybody makes his choices. Second, about time, yes you can make 9 loads in a week. One everynight and two more in the weekend, it's easy. Third. Lets have a family of 5 that makes five loads every week. It will saves you around 2.5 Kwh per load = 12.5 Kwh per week X £0,3/Kwh (I live in UK) = £3.75 per week X 52 = £192 per year X 5 = £975 in five years. You can pay it and save the money to replace it or fix it if it brakes. Oh!!! I forgot something, there are dryers with heat pump much cheaper, the cheapest in UK market right now is around £450

Er det virkelig sant

Yep, and thanks to the internet exposure some well kept secrets such as low tech USA could be noticed in the cyber space.

Can you explain what you connect the drain hose to?

@@aortunoj A drain.

How long to dry an average size load? I would say a week’s worth of clothes for me with a conventional dryer would take about 45 minutes to an hour to dry.

How long does it take to dry clothes though like with the whole thing mostly full? Also, how dry are the clothes when they are finished?

@@Fusiongearz about 1.5-2 hours depending on how jam packed it is. They're completely dry when they come out.

This only applies for appliances made for the EU market.

Yeah, I'm staying at a hotel in France for the next few weeks on business, and my only option is a Miele T1 heat pump dryer in the basement... it takes OVER 3 hours to get my clothes... damp. Not fully dry. (Cotton.) To be fair, it does a much better job with synthetics, only about 2 hours to get them completely dry. But cotton? Forget it. I just try to get them to damp, then I have to hang them over the towel dryer overnight, and that saves zero electricity there. It's just one giant heating element. It's an interesting idea, but I don't see how the energy savings work if you have to run the dryer 3 times as long. :\ Maybe they'll get it right on the 2nd or 3rd generation?

@thomas seven i have no idea. i've tried cotton, takes 3 hours. i've tried express. takes 3 hours. no matter what setting i try, it takes 3 hours, and the clothes are never dry. the *most* annoying part is that it uses its little "dryness sensor" to tell me, "oh, this will take 1:12 to dry!" i go up 3 flights of stairs, come back down, and the clock now says, "oh, did i say 1:12? i'm adding another 1:20!" then i come back, and it says, "oh, did i say another 1:20? i meant another 0:26!" then it finishes, and it's damp. i try running it again, it runs for 26 minutes, and its *still* damp. compared to my US dryer, i dump my clothes in, 50 minutes later on the lowest possible setting, and they're done and dry. maybe it's a faulty unit, i dunno. but my experience has not been great. on the upside, going up and down 3 flights of stairs repeatedly has done wonders for my quads!

@@ughtentide I wonder if the filters need cleaning - that would explain it's predictions being out too.

thomas seven , How big of a load can you do? I was about 15 shirts at a time, and I am still buried in laundry, so if I have to half that, then I really will be in over my head.

There are two types of vent less dryers. Most of them are what we call condenser dryers. They not only take forever (2, or 4 hours). And many (most) models run cold water through the condenser for cooling and then sends the water out to a drain (they thus need a water drain). As a result you use LOT of water to dry your clothes. Then there is the REAL heat pump dryers. These units are expensive and have built in heat pump to run the condenser (the same as an air-condition unit). Heat pump dryers don’t use water for cooling, and they are at least 2 if not 3 or even 4 times faster than condenser dryers. So in place of 4 hours, a heat pump dryer will take about 1 hour. So a typical heat dryer might be 30 minutes, the heat pump dryer would be about 1 hour. A condenser dryer? 3-4 hours! (And it using water for cooling). (We talking gallons of water here). And your clothes is still not really that dry! A vent less condenser dryer is often smaller, and is often a “combo” washer dryer. So, a “combo” washer and “condenser” dryer unit might set you back about $850 dollars. (Some are even cheaper). A condenser only dryer? They go for as cheap as $500 or even a bit less. The real deal Heat pump dryers? The ones with a real fridge unit (aka: heat pump inside)? They are rarely combo units, and they start close to the $1,000 range for JUST the dryer. And you can easily pay $2,000 for some of these units (not a combo unit). Most heat pump dryers also have a heating element, and if you put the unit on max, it will work as traditional dryers in terms of time. (you same some energy however, since once temperatures are up, then the heat pump running provides a good deal of the heat required. These units thus can run and use their heating element, or just the heat pump only in a cycle to dry (or a bit of both). They are vent less, and have a water collector, or optional can use a drain. But the condensing process for these heat pump dryers work far better because you have a real heat pump running the condenser unit to pull water out of the air. They cause much less wear and tear on clothes, since it not heat that does most of the drying, but a condenser that pulling out moisture. Those lower cost “condenser” dryers as noted tend to be combo units - and they tend to increase humidity in the dryer room. A heat pump unit does a MUCH better job of removing moisture because there is essentially an air condition unit inside of the unit for the condensing process. The energy savings of 50% compared to a regular dryer is due to the unit recycling the hot air to cold and then back around to the hot side (it’s like leaving your fridge door open - it will not cool (or heat) you house that way!! So the room is not heated up much in this mode. And you not sucking large volumes of air from the room to the dryer and then heating the air and THEN venting it outside. That is air you paid to heat, or paid good money to cool. The 50% rated savings in energy does NOT include this significant factor of using large volumes of air and then venting that air outside. Condenser only dryers (without heat pumps) are also vent less, but they SUCK big time. They take hours and hours. They tend to be cheap as dirt, and as noted most use cold water flowing through the condenser unit and then that water is sent out to the drain. (Gallons of water are thus used to dry your clothes). The difference between vent less “condenser” dryers and vent less heat pump condenser dryers is night and day (and so is the price!!). So heat pump dryers take about double the time compared to heat dryers, and this will somewhat depend on what energy mode you run the unit. If you run them at full mode, they will work quite much like a regular dryer (but is vent less). Those rotten condenser dryers as you note take 3 or even 4 hours - and your clothes still don’t come out really dry.

@@Albertkallal Thanks for the info. The dryer I bought is a heat pump dryer. Model# WHD5090GW This model normally retails for $1100-$1200. I just got lucky!

Albertkallal I have never seen a condenser dryer that uses water as a coolant- is that a US thing? Condensers are probably the biggest sellers in Europe, and none of them have ever used water. Are you thinking of the combined washer dryers which sometimes do?

Hi, do you have any feedback on Meile 110 ventless dryer? Thanks

@@bennisim7949 I have one Miele (BTW not Meile) and it has performed beautifully, it runs on 110 and I capped my outside vent, it shares the clothes washer drain to get rid of the water. It tells you when the filter has to be cleaned. Beautiful machine, a bit costly but you get what you pay for. It's smaller than a full size machine but handles about the same quantity of clothes. You can put a freshener cartridge that gives a nice smell to clothes dried in the machine, not those cheap perfumes used in the Bounce type additives.

Wetrock thank you for your reply. I actually bought one and really like it.

What do you have? I'm curious.

Yes what is the make and model?

@@Smurdle450 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pvGp_3iFvS4.html similar to this one

@@icie4u It's a Panasonic. I don't remember t he model.

We've had these in Scandinavia as well for many, many years. And our electricity cost is typically cheaper than in the US, but these are still a a no-brainer

Whats the watts used per hour

@@frankmundo4300 mine is 600watts

I’d rather not reuse the water I just washed my clothes with…

@@johncaccioppo1142 not even to flush your toilet or water your yard?

@@graysonsmith7031 Flush water, yes, yard, no. Definitely not to re-wash my clothes.

You still have to clean filters of lint though Just do it every cycle 👍

Not to mention those leaky tub type that use a felt gasket to blow lint through your house.

@@eaamonmangan4601 it would never blow into the house it is contained inside until the user cleans it out

@@stephensnell1379 yes Steven that was my point. heat pump ,the dryer is fully self contained. the older drum types are not they use felt gaskets that leak lint into homes. the felt gaskets are mounted on the tub's edges attached to plastic holders. they break or get worn out and interior pressure blows lint through out peoples homes. good for selling vacuums to those that owned them.

LG makes an All-in-one washer dryer unit which I've owned for about 8 months now and it works great for small less frequent loads of laundry for people living in apartments with no washer dryer hookups. The only downer is it takes 2 1/2 to 3 hours to do one load

I put the LG combo units in my rentals. They work great

Stacked washers/Dryers…

Josh Payne condensing dryers is one thing, those have been around since the 80:s, maybe even earlier. Heat pump dryers is the next step in the evolution of dryers. They became popular around 2010 here in Sweden. Don’t know about rest of Europe. But it is sad to hear that it took America another 10 years to discover it 😔

@@BigJ2020 Sad indeed. I bought my first heat pump dryer 15 years ago. Instead of 2kW it consumed only 0,5kW. On that model I had to manually clean the heat exchanger once a month. My current heat pump dryer from 2015 uses the condensed water to rinse the exchanger and flush out the fluff automatically.

@@BigJ2020 trust me, there are still going to be Americans who refuse to switch to these despite the advantages.

So instead of doing one large load of clothes we'd have to do two small loads with this one. There goes all the savings!

My point above is proven. read Fons’ comment. Power usage went down from 2 kw per cycle down to 0.5 kw, so even if you had to run 2 loads, you’d still be at 1KW, so you’re STILL saving energy.

You are dumb If you clearly listened it mentions heat pump dryers use a refrigerant

Actually you are dumb - read the comment again lol it has hot and cold copper pipes and no glowing coil

From my perspective, these driers are more analogous to dehumidifiers. My drier doesn't run that hot, but rather feeds the drum with air that the moisture gets stripped out over the cold evaporator. That water is then used to wash the fluff off the condenser periodically. Complete genius.

I know they are already building heat pump climate control systems with a condenser, evaporator, and third condenser for water heating, and juggling the load between them. I doubt we will see the levels of home integration necessary to plug the dryer into the refrigerant lines, but I feel you. Actually, that accumulated compressor work waste heat could be a problem if it isn't dumped to the room air. The recirculated dryer air would eventually get so hot that the evaporator couldn't get it below the dew point, and the head pressure in the condenser would rise until the compressor tripped out or melted down.

That's what I was thinking. Summer: vent the tumbler dryer into the room, have the heat pump water heater suck in the hot air, turn it into heating source for the hot water, plus cool the room. Winter: do same action as summer. What's there to lose? Someone correct me, in simple terms

Heat pumps have 300+% efficiency. No, they don't brake energy's laws. They don't make heat, they condense and transfer heat. That's why they can't catch boiling temps and they need more time for the same work.

Yes, I just measured the amount of electricity to run a standard electric vented dryer today and it was around 5-6 kWh per load. I couldn't believe how much 6 shirts and 6 pairs of shorts cost, at $0.18 per kWh that's over $1.00 per load. A large family home may decrease their energy needs significantly using a heat pump dryer unit. Btw - When it comes to using a heat pump water heater, I believe these may not work well in colder climates (efficiency wise). Water heater heat pumps remove heat from the surrounding air, the same air that may have been heated by the home heating system. I think the water heater pump units work best in places where an A/C system is running all year. In example, a water heat pump may work great in South Florida, unless if the cold coils collect condensed water and have no where to drain it.

2.5 hours to dry! My god I can run my washer, dryer, fold the toasty dry clothes and still have an hour to spare. Meanwhile these heat pump units will be taking out damp clothes that they have to air dry after briefly.

This has an air conditioner

@@AgentOffice Try putting a portable air conditioner in a sealed room. Air conditioners move heat; they're incapable of deleting heat, since that would break the laws of thermodynamics. In the process of moving heat, they also generate a significant amount of waste heat. Since you're just moving heat from one part of the room to the other, plus adding waste heat, the room will heat up rapidly.

skmetal7 more like an a/c unit, it has Freon in the system

Like a dehumidifier in a closet.

Basically, yes.

For entertainment? Surely the cost would outweigh the cost savings.

Overcomplicating something that should be really simple.I'll pass.

They are seriously awesome. Don't knock it until you buy one.

I have one. They work. Just like a refrigerator or air conditioning system is built to last decades, so is my Míele heat pump clothes dryer. Plugs into a standard outlet (240V not required) and drains right down the same pipe as the washing machine I have below it. I closed off my vent from my old gas dryer. The new machine saves money and is more durable and better built than my old gas dryer which vented to the roof.

This is America! Get out of the way of my Escalade! We've got fossil fuels to burn dammit

I don’t understand why u guys are so behind everyone has switched to metric and u guys are still using imperial also why do u use dryers when it’s really hot outside u could just hang them out which is free

@@maxd4968 Hey, there are 5,280 feet or 63,360 inches in each of our miles, just like god intended! Joking aside, many people don't live where you can hang clothes out to dry. I certainly can't in my apartment. There are also areas where, while hot, it's also so humid that clothes won't dry and will likely develop mildew. My parents, who hang clothes out to dry when possible, also have to work around heavy pollen, which will leave a yellow tint on clothes for a good part of the year. In the southwest where it's hot and dry the sun is so intense it will quickly break down and destroy fabrics. Most of us don't have a choice but to use dryers.

I live in wa (Western Australia) and I don’t even have a dryer since it is always in the 20s or 30s Celsius’s (70 to 100) even when it’s raining we just put then under the patio and there dry within a few hours

jblyon2 Too hot and dry to sry outside?! That has to be the most American thing I ever heard- and not in a good way. No wonder Americans are the biggest energy users and largest carbon emitters per person on the entire planet. Yes, I get you point about sunlight on clothes but either don't leave them out all day, or hang them under the porch or some kind of shade out of direct sunlight! Sorry, but dryers in that climate are nothing but laziness.

Whatever you are using to condition the temperature of the room the dryer is sitting in. The dryer works by moving the heat (from the air) between the cold condenser and the heat-exchanger, so if you place the HP dryer on a room which 15C or below, there is not enough heat to "pump" and create the necessary difference for it to work. That is when people will see the drying cycle time spike from 2/3 to 5/8 HOURS. Long story short, don't put a HP dryer on a cold humid room.

Btw, that is why a HP dryer dries using lower temperatures. It can generate a 25 to 45C difference internally (depending on its generation). If the room temperature is 15C, the heated air will top up at ~60C.

I know heat pumps work, but the lint is anther question

Well, my LG is now 6 years old and still works perfectly, and my LG washer is 16 years old and has plenty of years left in it.

I was wondering about the mold issue too.

you shouldnt be putting pets inside the dryer hun.

@@1itoasif Or your head to dry your hair after a shower!

Yea this is a huge flaw in the design. The genius of vented dryers is that lint is blown outside or gets trapped in up to a 25ft vent. I clean my dryer and dryer vent for lint every 3 months. Knowing all the lint my clothes produce with 8 pets I’d kill this machine in a year through lint alone.

This has convinced me to stick with a Condenser. Thanks... I think 😂

Newer models self flush the condenser. Very efficient. Drying times are similar to our old coil dryer. Much easier on the clothes. Often, additional drying time is a result of the condenser needing a good clean. I'm using a Bosch 500 series dryer with heat pump/condenser.

Building codes state makeup air isn’t needed unless your blower is over 400cfm and a 4” circular dryer vent maxes out at 400cfm so it’s an impossible issue you are trying to solve for.

You might have a condenser dryer. Not as efficient

Had an AEG Electrolux heat pump dryer for 4 years now. Zero problems and i bought it in a sale. Highly recommended

Yeah, if it is recirculating the air inside of it, what about all the lint that will end up on the refrigerant coils? I was guessing at the beginning of the video that the heat source for this would be just a condensor coil, with an evap. coil in the HVAC system. The dryer would still be pulling air out of the house and exhausting it, like a conventional dryer, but the entire house would be benefitting from dehumidification. Anyway, I think it would be difficult to filter the lint out of the air well enough for this recirculating dryer to maintain it's efficiency.

Washer/dryer combo units are never nearly as good as their standalone counterparts. Also, LG's heat pump dryers are known for running longer than others...

Yeah, if it was gas, you’d not be around much. I had an electric dryer that had “no vent” in the UK in the 90’s. I’m pretty sure it did the same thing.. dumped it into the home air.

Robert Cookson , What about the lint?

@@bigred9428 Never been a problem with it. always clean filter in the dryer it is a pretty long run to where it dumps into the house the may help.

@@DuncanCunningham it's no different than using an unvented gas heater

Bryan Hensley Which is equally suspect. Unvented gas appliances belong in museums of Victorian curiosities, not in people's homes.

It saves around 70p per cycle. If you have two cycles every week you will save around £70 every year.

HugeWolf1 In Europe All appliances come with an energy label detailing exactly how much they will use. For dryers it shows the energy required to dry a standardised load, usually 5kg of cotton from a certain saturation to another set point of residual moisture. So one can easily compare. Heat pumps are much slower but use a few hundred watts rather than 2-3kw, so even taking into account the longer run times they still use less overall.

@@spencerwilton5831 they're also much more gentle on the clothes, less heat, no scorched or shrunk clothing.

@Hugewolf1 and others, have a look at this guys energy usage comparison between a heat pump and conventional vented clothes dryer. We're yet to decide on what we'll upgrade to, but this comparo has helped. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Nh-j0sWBEJA.html

larry moore Front load washing machines have been pretty much the only ones used in Europe for forty years. Nobody has used a top load since the seventies. I don't know why Americans are so against them, or think they are new? They wash better, use less water and energy, damage clothes less and spin much faster meaning clothes dry faster.

Yes they can 120v 15 amps.

I’m wondering if the coils were super clogged? I can almost guarantee I would miss the coil cleaning step if i didn’t know that this was a special dryer

I just checked a local electronics and washing machine supermarket. They alone had 20 different machines spread over 9 different brands. They are plenty abundant here in Europe. I don't know the market in Canada.

@@yvindascanius6061 Canada? 🤔

@@BloodyIron When I click on your about section in your profile it says: Joined 12 Feb 2007, location Canada. Right or wrong?

@@yvindascanius6061 might be, thanks for the heads up on my profile showing that :) no big deal friend :) thanks for the info on washing machines in your part of the world!

@@BloodyIron You're welcome. I just like to know which part of the world the person I'm commenting on is coming from. That could make the comment more precise. Have a nice day.

And it probably works with a regular 15A outlet, too.

MarkRavingMad Condenser dryers are common in Europe, they don't need a vent either but are faster than heat pump dryers and cheaper to buy. They have the advantage of putting the waste heat into your home. They are ideal for cooler European climates where we tend to mainly use dryers in the winter. The waste heat warms your home reducing the heating bill.

Spencer Wilton euro Condenser dryers are available in heat pump models as well which are basically the same as this unit.

Spencer Wilton it seems like the newest models are all heat pump dryers... Do you think condenser dryers are going extinct?

Close to real story. If you ever took apart a whirlpool/samsung type dryer they have a rotating drum that seals with felt bushings and they leak lint as it blows all over the wash room and the house. The Bosch is a sealed unit, no lint ever gets out of the dryer. Also like my 20 year old Bosch dryer a cooler temp preserves the clothing and they last/look good holding color longer.

Makes the room a little warmer due the the efficiency loss in the HP. Doesn't affect the drying time.

I assume these things have to eventually start dumping the compressor work heat to the room air, or the recirculated dryer air would eventually get so hot that the evaporator couldn't get it below the dew point, and head pressure would rise and the compressor would trip out on safety. I would think any room big enough to fit the dryer in would be sufficient.

Dan Cunningham , Are you sure that's ok? Personally, I don't see why not, but my dehumidifier's instructions say not to use the water in the garden.

@@bigred9428 The lawyers made them say that.

Tom Cartmel , If I had the money, I would be sending EVERYTHING to a lab, including this waste water. That way I would know what's what. BTW, I am pretty sure it only says veggie gardens. I should have specified.

@@bigred9428 I believe you may be correct. The water draining from a heat pump dryer would not be clean and may be considered to be gray water, which needs to be treated in a septic system same as the water from a clothe washer.

Not to mention the cost and waste from the units shorter life span compared to a simple and proven vented dryer. This is just another way for manufacturers to increase their profits.

Perhaps assuming you have a whole house hepa air filter and the outside air isn’t a benefit.

Five weeks to cook the Thanksgiving turkey

@@Viper81766 yep. It'll probably go bad before Thanksgiving.

When you wash properly you dont get a smelly and dirty washer. So your clothes are actually really clean and wont smell bad out of the dryer✌🏻