I like the ideas from the Hardcore rules, the trickiest one to implement would be the long rest restriction as it would prioritize some classes over others and restrict choices. Try having 5 long rest in Act 1 as a Mage, good luck. I am thinking about resting when spell slots from all levels are empty for casters, it would require to use a variety of spells and not just cast Fireball, Haste, long rest and repeat.
Quick PSA: The Oathbreakers Aura of Hate DOES NOT WORK on your summons. It buffs the melee weapon attacks of undead and the Paladin itself. Now The problem is that none of your undead summons actually carry a melee weapon. So it doesn't do anything but buff your paladin and enemy undead, which do know how to carry pointy and sharp objects
Set of rules I thought about for Tactician: 1. No reloads 2. Long rest costs 120 Camp supplies 3. No Speed potion, Bloodlust Elixir + No Haste, No Counterspell (Those 4 seems to be the most broken things in the game and removing those makes the game much harder) 4. DND Multiclass stat requirement Optional: 5. No Illithid Powers
With that gear Spore Druid, Necromancy of Thay and Wizard points for Necro would make a truly insane amount of summons and DOTs. Definitely need to try that for mid to late game.
I quite like the Harcore ruleset, seems fair and fun to me. There are a couple points I'd like to discuss tho: First of all, I feel like setting a specific number for rests will make comps that have a bard and short-rest dependent classes take the lead in the long run, so maybe just leaving it vague as "minimize resting" for the moment untill we have a clearer idea of the implications would be the play. Then I'd allow to spam rests one after the other for story reasons (triggering cutscenes and stuff), but I dont think anyone will argue against me for this one. Also I'd like to point at Luck of the Far Realms. That Tadpole power is completely broken (like 100% out of this world overpowered) and invalidates most control-based classes if you can have your striker self-garantee a critical strike. I don't know if we want to ban it straight away, but limiting it somehow seems like a wise choice. Don't believe me? Try playing a 2 level Paladin/ Pact of the blade Warlock with GWM and double-smiting a boss with a garanteed crit and see how many survive (spoiler: none).
When I made that comment I did not consider the fact that that ability is very rest dependent, tbh. You are right that's a 1 per day and that is a limitiation for it. I still stand by my statement tho. I one-punched most bosses in the game because I happen to roll Wyll as a paladin/warlock and he literally solo'd most 1 enemy type encounters. I don't see how other striker type classes could keep up with 150-ish dmg first strikes, but I may be just impressed on the performance of that specific build (and wrong😅) For how it invalidates control classes, it may come down as in how I understand "control" as a concept. I mostly play them as a "Hold monster" type class, specifically to ensure big damage bursts from crits. I rarely rely on AoE crowd control type effects because I find them unreliable. The concentration slot on a caster is very valuable, and having it hit 2 goblins with hypnotic pattern while Thorne is beating the shit out of me doesnt sound ideal😂, so I'd rather Haste my striker. The ecception was with crit-ensuring spells which if they hit mean a free kill. This doesn't happen every fight, and in my experience (which is by no means definitive, I've just done a single playthrough) is not often enough that the tadpole perk was sufficient as a free-crit silver bullet (which is also action-free and made by the striker himself) If you disagree, I'd love to hear why if you can spare the time :) @@Aestus_RPG
@franciscofracaro3648 That is the correct way to play controllers in my opinion. There are some AoE controls spells that are worth it though (Fear and Slow). I still don't think they are invalidated though. If you limit long rests, you'll need to clear more than one difficult encounter per long rest, so you'll need those controllers for that I expect.
There is a spell you can learn as a Wizard in Act 3 that is a BG3 original spell. It's 5th level and probably the best damage spell in the game in combination with the staff because it's almost Disintegrate damage as a Necromancy spell, so automatic disadvantage to the save + no spell slot cost.
That really takes the fun out of it. And it wouldn’t be challenging still. Their attribute spread matters little when there are insanely OP items in the game. Every class can have strong builds because of it. If you actually want a challenge you remove restrictions on classes, disallow the OP gear ( like no dex modifier cap to AC, the fuck is that...), and force your build crafting to carry you rather than gear giving free stats, free casts of t5 or 6 spells, free spell slots back, etc. That would be more of a challenge.
Yeah I guess, but then I'd say the whole purpose of the tierlist is kind of irrelevant. You can pretty much clear tactician with any class and any party without much difficulty past the first levels. Probably have to wait for mods to increase the difficulty accordingly. Game needs a tactician + mode badly.
another fun bug. Enemies i put asleep with eyebite i can't gorge with my ghouls. I mean the ability that heals the ghoul. Can only be use on a sleeping, prone or knocked out target. Can't be used on targets that sleep because of eyebite.
Hey Aestus, you mentioned this briefly in the video, but there is also a Lightning version of the Spell DC head armor piece as well - it's very good because you can create water then open fire with Lightning spells for double damage. Another is a set of gloves that give Spell DC levels for each weapon attack that inflicts a condition. There's also a potion that you can use alchemy to craft that gives 3x Spell DC levels.
Just saw that apparently ghouls and mummies are immune to the downside of abyss beckoners, if that's the case theres another stack of resistance right there, however I can't confirm this as I haven't tested it yet. do have a question though how come you didn't talk about crypt lords ring?
No way! Respecs absolutely make this game more fun! I know that you can not respec in D&D but in a video game it is expected. Such cool optimization happens in early game. You can do small multiclass dips in early game. Countless things
@@RafaelSilva-qz3os So the way it works is you get to level 5 and you get invisbility; this invisibiliy has unlimted uses and always resets outside of combat and can be used to enter combat for advantage and once broken, once again during combat. It does not require a short or long rest to recharge and it is amazing outside of combat as well for exploration, sleight of hand, etc. I am rolling a duergar shadow monk and the possibilities are insane.
@@spellandshield Duergar Dark Urge then seems like it would combine well, because the cape keeps you invisible while you're in combat and that ability keeps you invisible out of it. Perma invisibility, but are you doing a solo playthrough or will you have a bunch of clunking paladins running around behind you in plate?
I have a normal party, playing DU Shadow Monk, the permanent invisibility is also great for exploring and bypassing things, along with Shadow Step, for me Duergar are S tier.@@Jacob-fz5ho
I agree with your hardcore ruleset. I think it's the most genuine way to play the game. Limitless long rests conflict with the story a lot of the time and trivialize consecutive combat encounters for mages. One thing I disagree with is stealth. I feel like since hide costs a whole action now, and you can't hide in the enemies' zone of control it should be okay. I believe what we see in the game doesn't reflect the whole range of context for what actions you take represent. Rolling a miss on a guy in full plate, a 20 dex lightly armored guy, and a 10 ac guy means different events, which are animated and described as the same. Any martial class would, if presented with the opportunity, take cover and not draw opponent's attention to him. It's a smart thing to do. I don't know how to describe another scummy tactic eloquently, so bear with me for a sec. When you engage with an enemy with one character, locking them in turn based mode, while the rest of your team is not in turn based mode and can move or do more things than makes realistic sense within that fight. Like how does it make sense that in a timeframe that it takes for your enemy to make one action and move 9 meters you travelled all the way from your camp, cast several spells, and then also attacked? I think turn based mode should be universal for all characters, if it's engaged for just one. Makes more sense to me.
Built a level 11 Draconic (Fire) Sorc with hat of fire acuity and a necklace that applies my CHA mod onto cantrips. I now do ~40 damage on firebolt cantrip that I can spam to build up massive acuity and then cast lockdown crowd control that can't be resisted easily (hold monster, dominate person, etc). Can twin hold monster once you're stacked up to lockdown 2 enemies and it basically can't be stopped
@@Aestus_RPG twinned scorching ray upcasted gives you like tons of stacks of mental acuity right off the rip. Actually makes this helmet busted, +6 spell DC after even a single level 2 scorching ray - possibly up to +20 DC if you twin and upcast
I agree about the no-respec rule -- but I am really happy respecs are in for the first playthrough. I would have restarted a bunch of times if they weren't. :)
Can someone please let me know if circle of bones will allow you to upcast animate dead? I want to be able to animate ghouls with it. I am a oathbreaker/warlock and im trying to decide whether or not to choose pact of the blade or pact of the tome to get animate dead and this will effect my decision.
Love the vids! I've been thinking about hardcore rule myself. I would assume not using Karmic dice would be in the hardcore mindset, yes? Also, I think the challenge with limiting long rests will be the minimum required nights to progress the story, no idea how many that would be myself. Looking forward to what you come up with.
Generally, it's very important not to reload if you screw up an ability check. The failures in this game are as exciting as the successes. I've killed my entire party in combat and had to reload to a point before an important failure, and I've wondered what would have happened if I hadn't succeeded.
Also a good reason not to respec is that you find interesting and unexpected dialogue choices as a particular class, and if you keep that class identity all the way through, you get a nice strong attachment to your character. Feels like an actual *role playing* game.
Hard disagree, that's what larian said but it's only true a small percentage of the time. Things like failing to defend isobel/last light or most of the options in the druid grove diverge the story in interesting ways but there are plenty of failures that literally do nothing except make things "disappear". It's not really a "divergent" story path if you fail to rescue Us, it just doesn't show up later. It's not really a "divergent" story path if you fail to convince mizora to give you an extra reward, you just straight up miss an item. Only main story beats give you meaningful fails, lots of side quests simply throw up a wall when you fail.
Off topic: I'm spanish and I'm subscribed because I can't find spanish-speaking channels that have a bit of a level to analyze the mechanics of the game. Lately I'm seeing a lot of channels that don't know how caster spells work and believe that for example "burning hands" scales with DEX because it says "Save DEX". They recommend builds without knowing how the game works. Does the same thing happen on English-speaking channels? At least I was lucky to find this channel, although my english is not very good, it is an oasis in the middle of the desert of ignorance. Thank you.
Yeah, the same thing does happen in English speaking channels, but they probably get drowned out much quicker since, for some reason, English has become the main language of the internet, there are just more english speaking creators. How do you think my videos would do if I translated them to Spanish? Is there much compitition in Spanish?
@@Aestus_RPG I think that many users would appreciate it because at the level of videos that go into the game in depth, there isn't much. In fact, almost nothing. But you know how this is better than me. Most of the players just want to throw colored fireballs and kill a lot. I can't tell you if that would be a boost that will pay off the effort.
Is the Tactician difficulty's doubling of the usage of camp supplies not enough to make resting a challenge? I found myself getting a little uncomfortable in Act 1 as the result of that. Just started Act 2, so can't speak to what follows.
So, apparently the reason I was running into supply issues is that they don't count the supplies you sent to your camp trunk; you have to take them out of the trunk before they register as usable. This apparently is common knowledge for those who played EA, but I managed not to learn it. :) I had a ridiculous ton of supplies in my camp chest. So I agree with you that Tactician doubling the supply cost won't impose enough of a limitation.@@Aestus_RPG
another suggestion with the hardcore rule is default items only, or up to green items only, there are far too many OP weapons/equips in the game. Also no consumables seem possible also...
Would a circle of spore/necromancer mutliclass be viable as lvl 6 with spore has Fungal Infestation and lvl 6 Necromancer gets Undead Thralls/Animate Dead?
Definitely planning on putting that hat on my light cleric shadowheart :) but considering how powerful undead thralls become with a full wizard, I'm wondering if I should have gale the necromancy book of that to capitalize on this (and respec him to necromancy school)?
I will be avoiding mods as much as possible for the rules. Mods are cool, but they aren't BG3, and their is a subset of players that just won't use them, so the rules will have a wider appeal if they are independent of mods.
Will be all in on your ruleset after my first playthrough, by the end of which I'm assuming/hoping Larian will be done making adjustments. For example, was unaware that the Berserker had been nerfed until after level 3 for Karlach. As you are close to the end, are you still recommending that Sorcerers, and Wizards not be Multiclassed?
Pretty much, yeah. A one level dip right at then end can be worth it, but as a general rule I think single classing them is best.. Right now, Wizards are bugged so that if you dip one level you can learn spells from scroll all the way up to 6th, which can add a lot of spell selection to other full casters. That is obviously very strong, but it feels cheesy to me, and it will be fixed I'm sure, so I don't do it.
Other mechanics that maybe should be limited in some way in a hardcore ruleset: - number of summons - wet condition abuse - haste abuse - tavern brawler abuse (maybe, not sure yet) - using potions, scrolls and other items
been playing tavern brawler thrower a lot. It's absolutely busted on paper, but is absolute garbage in practice due to one thing: the phrase "path is interrupted". Sure you do a lot of damage, but no other playstyle has such a high risk of just losing all damage for a turn because the room has weird ceiling geometry or something.
it's busted in practice too, if you are crafty you can get the angles especially if you use various weapon types (hammers have different throw paths than pikes/javelins/tridents). You can also just worst case scenario drop your weapon on the ground and go up and punch them for massive damage
@@Jacob-fz5ho I should look for some hammers but either way this build still requires giving up and action to change equipment if you get fucked by level geometry. At that point, just get a +10 dmg from GWM and melee or do a dual crossbow fighter. Throwing is just gigga scuffed, but i'm sticking with it since it feels like a unique challenge at this point.
@@MichelDood Nope you don't have to give up any actions. You can drop weapons on the ground and pick them back into your inventory freely. You can throw any item from your inventory. Returning weapons return to your hand. No wasted actions for any reason. I also found it powerful to pick up one enemy and throw it at another, knocking both prone with enraged throw
You are making me seriously consider an evil playthrough with Spore Druid. Being able to use different spores with that item is crazy. Btw, is Spore Druid able to be pretty beefy? I was thinking of running one with War Caster to keep moonbeam active and Halo of Spores to continuously deal damage. Secondly, do you know of any Psychic damage builds? Or at least ones that have it as a secondary damage source? I got inspired by the Githyaki weapons that do psychic damage and the tadpole abilities to deal psychic damage to casters and when you bring a target low enough. Im not far enough into the game to know if more gear works with that. (Headed to the creche at lvl 6.)
I haven't played a Spore Druid yet, but I think it probably best to keep them off of the frontline, but you can still do the moonbeam strategy without them being on the front. There isn't really anything that supports psychic as a build that I know of. There are items an abilities that deal psychic damage, but no way to augment them, which is a shame. There is a ring that allows you to summon Shadow Blade, a sword that deals Psychic damage and attacks with advantage in dim light and darkness. That could be fun to try!
@Aestus_RPG Dang! Maybe when modders delve more into the game, we wil get something that supports psychic damage. For now, the gith weapons and tadpole powers will have to do.
What are your thoughts on using Elixirs on a hardcore run? I’m on my first Tactician run right now and while the alchemy and elixir system is definitely a lot of fun, it feels waaay to strong. The Bloodlust Elixir and the Elixir of Peerless Focus helped me slaughter the Goblin Village and Fortress without a single long rest without breaking a sweat.
I floated the idea of banning them in my first exploration video, and I'm not closed to the idea, but for now I think its better if we allow them. Are they insanely powerful? Yes. But we can adjust for that in other ways (less long rests, for example). The important question is are they tactically interesting? That is, do they synergize with the existing systems, or do they conflict with them? Right now, I feel like they are tactically interesting, so I'm allowing them.
Regarding hard-core rules: I don't think limiting long rests per act incentivizes what you want to achieve. Firstly, it incentives avoiding combat. For instance, I was able to solve a lot of tough encounters in act 2 by talking with my bard main. And obviously, a stealth-based character can do things to a similar effect. While this is actually my preferred way to play, I don't think a ruleset you punish you for taking optional battles, like that hag. Secondly, it devalues limited-use abilities. Those are, however, often class defining features, like barbarian rage. So you arbitrarily knock-out non-endurance based concepts. I am not saying you should be able to rage every battle. But fighting 10 battles in a row without rage as a barbarian, just makes you less-proficient fighter without subclass. Thirdly, but kind of related, you basically ban the usage of high-level spell slots for everything but summons (and maybe feast), which are already very, very powerful. I would suggest something like one long-rest per 5-7 combat encounters, non counting trivial ones, and an additional one before facing the big baddies, e.g. the chosen, and optional bosses, like Grymforge Guardian or Auntie Ethel.
I'm fine with it incentivizing bypassing combat when you can. Why wouldn't I be fine with that? Bypassing battles is a big part of all no-reload runs in CRPGs, even when there isn't a rest limit. Fighting means risking death, so in a challenging game with no reloads you naturally want to limit fights to a few that you can predict and control. I don't think resting has anything to do with that. Limited use abilities ARE less valuable. I think that's just the nature of the game. The problem as far as I am concerned is that everyone overvalues them because the default is to spam rests.
@@Aestus_RPG The value of limit-use abilities depends on your choice. As you outlined, spamming long rests inflates their value, abstaining from long rests deflates their value. My point isn't that one should do the one thing or the other. My point is, that your proposal limits the number of viable builds significantly. And that maybe fine, if that is what you and the majority of your audience want. Yet, in the end it is your, arbitrary decision to do so. Don't get me wrong: Sustainability is a feature that should lift classes by one or two tiers, but I feel the rules as proposed lift classes three or more tiers. At least that is my estimation, which might be wrong. That is okay, in the sense that obviously tiers have to be evaluated with respect to a playstyle, but doing everything to avoid long rests is as much against the intend of DND/Larian* as spamming them is. * I was bombarded with campfire events, and I didn't even get to see some, because I didn't take enough long rests in Act 1 and 2.
@grandmasterofherb If I significantly limit viable builds than I over did it and should ease up on the rest limit. That's the fine tuning process. I did my first playthrough as a full class sorcerer and I'm pretty sure I only rested 5 times in Act 3. I was able to do that because I itemized for sustainability, for example, I ised the Staff discussed in the video. So I fairly confident 5 rests per act won't hurt full caster classes that much.
@@grandmasterofherb As far as I know, the only big quests I didn't do were the counting house, the Iron Throne, and the Cazadore quest. The devil you mentioned is what I meant in the video when I said I kept Hope alive. That quest was actually a help, since there is a certain pool in it that gives you the effects of a Long Rest without actually resting.
I like your vids. You might want to look at the interaction between the Infernal Rapier, Arcane Synergy ring+head, strange conduit ring and Eldritch Knight War Magic. 29 AC buffed doing ~25-30 damage / swing. 8str, 10 dex, max int.
I've been looking into Arcane Synergy with Eldritch Knight. I have a feeling that EK's might be one of the best classes in the game. Why Infernal Rapier though? What's the reasoning on that?
How many long rest did you have in Act 1? 2? 3? Just interesting. Is it lower than 30 or 50? I try make not many long rests and in EA many quests with companions are don't work correctly
Long rests was something I thought Larian would change in the final version of the game. There is too much food everywhere and this allows for long rests after each battle. I thought that at the highest difficulty this would be limited in some way, but I was wrong. I don't know what the correct number per act would be, but they would have to be limited by the camping supplies you can find, in this way you reward the player who explores by granting some extra rest and limit the others. They could also add spells to create food and water. The problem is that Larian have preferred to tell the story of your companions during rests.
In early access I tried some rules that limited long rests to only using salvaged foods or only using supply packs, etc, but none of them really worked, which is why I'm trying to just set a limit per act. I'm not sure I'm really worried about rewarding exploration, since this is supposed to be a ruleset for people who've already fully explored the game through multiple runs and are looking for a challenge to keep the game fresh. Same thing kinda goes for the companions. However, if you wanted to progress the companion dialogues you could always just rest immediately after resting a few times and just count it as one.
@@Aestus_RPG got it. I have a bug which makes it so it doesn't consume any charges. if i kill at least one enemy after a long rest i can cast unlimited necromancy spells.
I recently completed Act 1 in 3 Long Rests (5 if you include the mandatory ones, which I don't) without a single Bard, so I don't think it will be that restrictive.
@@Aestus_RPG I was joking around. But I feel like if you don't use your abilities for no reason, you can actually do a solid stretch of story in 1 go. I think the unlimited long rests are an amazing feature for less experienced players
Love the hardcore ruleset! I’m sure it will be tweaked over time, but the spirit is great. It reminds me of no reload runs in BG1 and BG2. Would love to see a mod down the line that locks some hardcore rules in place
I think you make great content but I feel you are wasting your time. This game has terrible balance (it's fun though). Videos about min/maxing or interesting builds are sort of pointless, though, when all you need to easily beat the game on Tacticion is twinned Haste, Bless, Fireball, Command and maybe Thunderwave.
Thanks, I guess. I firmly disagree about it being a waste of my time. My hope is that the Hardcore rules I mentioned in this video will add more challenge to the game.
Nah. It’s ok for the community to create the hardcore “rule set”. Only thing I wish they added was a perma-death mode like they had in Divinity OS:2. I’m not sure if that shipped with the base game or came out later as an update or with the definite edition, but regardless I wish it was in the game. I’ll try and play with that caveat in my hardcore runs.
Been talking with my friends about BD3 HC runs, we share many rules, one respec is nice I think as well, but the long rest rule is tricky, I wish there was a more reasonable way to balance it then long rest per act, that feels too arbitrary for me, I wish there could be ,milestones in progressions where you obtain the next long rest, rather than just have a limit.
On Tactician long rests require 80 supply so there's always that. You could modifiy ut to more by dropping the rxtra supply at some spot in the camp not to be used in the future.
For your hardcore ruleset, you might wanna consider banning hirelings. They kinda get around the no respec or a potential perma death rules by simply letting you roll up new characters. They can also do broken stuff like casting warding bond on someone and sitting in camp, or creating a bunch of free goodberries per long rest.
@@unixtreme I imagine through Transmuter's Stones. You can have a hireling make them and trade them, then kick them from your party -- the Stones stay, so in theory you could do this with 3 hirelings, and respec all your unused companions to Transmutation Wizards too. Pretty anti-fun. Transmuter's Stone: You can create Transmuter's Stones, storing some of your transmutation magic. A creature carrying the stone gains a benefit of your choice: Transmuter's Stone: Darkvision Darkvision: Darkvision out to a range of 18m / 60ft Transmuter's Stone: Constitution Constitution: Proficiency in Constitution icon.png Constitution Saving Throws. Transmuter's Stone: Speed Movement Speed: Movement Speed increased by 3m / 10ft. Transmuter's Stone: Resistance Resistance: Resistance to one of Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder damage. Once you have created a stone, you must cast a Transmutation spell of level 1 or above or finish a Long Rest before you can create another one. Only one stone can be active at a time.
That Hat of Fire Acuity sounds insanely strong. I think there's another item that gives the same buff on weapon hits too, which apparently is also busted, particularly on Swords Bards using Slashing Flourish (Ranged) with dual wielded hand crossbows. I think the rules sound reasonable. Only one I would be a bit leery of is five long rests per act -- I feel like that could dis-proportionally impact some classes a lot more than others. But as you say, it's just a concept right now that will be put to the test and may be adjusted after some experimentation.
Wow, haha, I was so fixated on the damage resistance setup you had with Force Conduit and Arcane Ward that I completely missed that you were also using that helm! @@Aestus_RPG
Are we banning elixirs? If the rage and cloud giant (or even hill giant) elixirs are allowed, then long rests are actually bad and I avoid them. I've done like a third of Act 3 on a single day because I popped 2 cloud giant elixirs and just use sustain classes that don't need a lot of rests (Fighters, Rogues, Rangers) or potions of angelic slumber for my casters. 27 strength for an entire day is just nuts. GWM users are going OFF
