Exploring Deltarune's Creepy Snowgrave Route (Deltarune Chapter 2 Secrets) 

noelle in snowgrave: *doesnt know what shes doing* noelle in pacifist: *chokes berdly*

Fun Fact: If you unequip Noelle’s watch and have Kris equip it, Noelle would notice it during the Hospital scene but instead of trying to convince herself that it is a dream, she horrifyingly asks why do you have her watch. Susie would always cut you off before you tell Noelle that it wasn't a dream, but having the Watch definitely force that proof onto her..

Remember that Noelle likes scary things, like horror movies and Susie. But she thought your voice was terrifying.

Everyone:makes Noelle kill Berdley. Also everyone: “how could kris do this”

Deltaruin: Your choices don’t matter. You can’t play a genocide route. The player: Fine then. I’ll make Noelle do it!

6:25 I just noticed Noelle's walking animation plays when Kris crosses the barrier. She didn't just think of stepping off, she started to, but stopped herself.

One of the most disturbing things I’ve seen in a game was berdly with his head laying on the table. Take a bow Toby Fox

I love how Toby eludes to this path in other characters dialogue. For example, when the queen goes on about how powerful Noelle is throughout the normal path, she just needs to be awakened, or something along those lines.

"Snowgrave" route is way more darker than the Genocide route of Undertale. Your manipulating your childhood friend to straight up murder people, and caim that it's to get stronger. Later we see the afterwards effects this experience has left for Noelle. Poor girl just can't catch a break.

This is literally a creepypasta integrated into a game as canon.

You forgot that in this route when you reunite with Rasiel and Susie they mention Kris looks shaken, implying even the creepy kid who may be trying to bring the end of the world was terrified of what the player has just done.

I won’t lie. I’m tempted to do this run just to avoid the car puzzles.

Something that always gave me chills about this route was that when you see Susie and Ralesi icons it says “*Kris* called for help.” But when you get to Noelle’s it says “*You* whispered Noelle’s name.” Just a big reminder that this route wasn’t Kris’ fault, it’s ours. The player. We use Kris to interact with this world. We push Noelle to do all of these horrible things. We killed Berdly. We caused this route and these characters have to pay the price

I love how the Snowgrave route leaves Berdly just lying there sleeping in the library. Kind of like he's frozen in time in the Dark World and because it's sealed he can't get out or "wake up" metaphorically. It first made me think of the term "falling down" like with the secret lab monsters in Undertale

Fun fact: on the city (snowgrave) menwhile you are icing monsters, Lancer is sleeping on your pockets and it says "(Innocent boys are fast asleep)".

Some thing I haven't seen in the comments, but think is important. What Noelle says before she cast snowgrave: "You wanna see what happens so bad?" That's the same motivation the player is presumed to have in Undertale's Genocide run

I love how the name Snowgrave or weird routes are the perfect name for this path, instead of Genocide or something because You cannot kill every enemy in the place… You are only limited to some. Quite a fitting name

Normal route Berdly: I am the best of the best Snowgrave route Berdly(before death): Noelle, are you okay? In Snowgrave, Berdly is actually serious.

Another detail, when you go to the door in the computer lab it says “A large person could easily fit inside” and when you leave the room it fades to black and says something like “you gathered your things and left” The dark part is I think that it’s implying Kris put Berdly’s corpse in there…

In my opinion the reason Noelle agreed to whatever the player commanded (through Kris) is that she has been so defenseless in her whole life that she felt so good freezing enemies for power because the player manipulated her to overcome her fear and “toughen up”. It’s pretty disturbing.

Kris calls out for Susie and Ralsei. "You" whisper Noelle's name. Kris seemed to fight calling Noelle, fighting the Player + the other possessing them, but calling for their friends for help. I think Kris really does care for all of them, but as the chapters pass, they aren't able to fight the possession like they used to.

I always prefer the dialogue Variant when Kris wears the watch because while we didn’t have enough time to tell Noelle that what she experience wasn’t a dream, it is possible for Noelle to put two and two together and realize that that everything that had happened did actually happen. I really can’t wait to continue down this route in the future chapters.

Isnt it kinda creepy that in this route, the options when the "player" is talking to Noele kind of comes off stalker-ish? As if the "player" has this creepy crush on them.

The king says the "you left them behind" line in a normal run where you don't recruit everyone

You forgot to mention that in the computer lab examining the closet says that you could probably fit a body in there and it's implied that Kris stuffed Berdly's body in there before leaving

It’s probably just me, but the Snowgrave Route really feels like something out of a greatly well-written creepypasta like Ben Drowned or NES Godzilla

16:36 Another pair of oddities are that: 1. Instead of looking behind Susie to see if she has a tail in a normal route, indicating her boldness, she instead asks her about it to confirm she was dreaming. 2. Instead of getting over the top about her and Kris saving the world, Susie mentions that it didn't feel like they saved the world, and that she senses trouble up ahead.

Honestly seeing Berdly react in Snowgrave gives me a new respect for him as a character. I didn’t care much for him in my normal route but seeing this it just… changes things for me. That said, I will not be attempting the Snowgrave route until all the games are released 😂

This is just...Dear god, it's so fucked up. I genuinely feel dirty after seeing this. This is just such a twisted yet realistic take on manipulation, and it just...It fucks me up seeing it in something like this.

I love how fast you fly through the story after the Noelle section is over, especially how fast you convince Queen to just give up

Idk how, but Toby did it... He made something a LOT creeppier then the undertale genocide route (in my opinion) This is litteraly horror

i forgot the original text for this comment because i edited it

What makes this path so horrifying, especially compared to Undertale, is how you really have to know exactly what you're doing, and be willing anyway, to go through with it. It's not just grinding out all monsters in every area. You have to consciously push the most manipulative decisions on Noelle, whether they're right in front of you or you have to go looking for them, because a single slip of kindness or remorse will put you back on the normal path. And there's a lot of chances to slip up, as if the game doesn't want you to do any of this, but it knows flat out telling you to stop will just make you feel more tempted to try. Plus, there's no unique challenges to reward your persistence like in Undertale. The final boss is just the bonus boss, and many gameplay and story beats are completely skipped. There's literally no justifiable reason to send Kris and Noelle down this spiral of abuse, except MAYBE to abort at the last moment so you can give the ThornRing to Malius instead. (Makes me worry what future options will lead to the PureCrystal.)

Fun fact: the thorn ring takes Noelle’s HP down to 55. 55 in roman numerals is LV. Just a fun thing to think about knowing how Toby flipped the meanings of EXP and LV to a whole other concept. =)

Theory: The player is forcing Noelle to become stronger and level up so that they can use them as the protagonist instead of Kris, as they have clearly been shown to be fighting back against the player, while Noelle is weak-willed and yields to all of our commands. We are training her to become more powerful than Kris, so that in the end, we can possess and use her to our own ends, all unknowingly. Edit: I just remembered. In Undertale, plaques in Waterfall detail a type of monster called a boss monster, whose soul can survive a few moments after the bodies death, so that a human may absorb it. Maybe that’s what this is building up to?

Y’all think Kris is gonna eventually have enough of the player’s shit and be the sans of this game? It’d be ironic af since they’re basically the Frisk/Chara of this au.

I just wanna point out that Berdly isn't completely dead. Or at least, not yet. We know from Undertale that if he had died, he would've turned to dust. So maybe he's in the "Fallen Down" state Alphys wrote about in her True Lab?

I really adore that fact that unlike undertale where we can somewhat blame the actions on chara or frisk, in deltarune it places emphasis on how all of this is your fault.

We know Berdly can't be *DEAD* dead, because monsters turn to dust when they die. But it will be very interesting to see what's going on with him in chapter 3 post-snowgrave.

Fun fact: You can still walk towards noelle during the hospital scene.

Let me remind everyone: This isn’t Kris doing this, YOU are controlling Kris, therefore YOU are doing the route. Kris is even disturbed by YOUR actions.

Fun fact: "snowgrave" also works as an anagram for "wrong save". Probably just a coincidence, but I like anagrams.

This just adds a whole other level to Deltarune. It’s so much more than just “another Undertale”, especially with the Snowgrave route now in the game. I can’t wait to see what Toby has planned for the other chapters considering just how much detail went into an alternate route that’s so specific to fully witness 👀

Fun fact, during the button room, you can see Noelle doing a walking animation in place on the button. She was a lot closer to ending you then you thought.

Not only we are forcing Noelle to freeze everyone, we are forcing Kris to encourage the murdering to happen...

notice how it says "You whispered Noelle's name..." and not "Kris Whispered..." a neat little detail

11:04 I cant get over how in this serious moment Berdly still makes that goofy face when summoning his weapon

This unfortunately is a route I don't think I'll ever play; the genocide route was straight out creepy and wrong but at the same time you couldn't connect as personally because they were mostly monsters and it was more concerned with killing. However, this one deals with a rather eerie and realistic form of emotional manipulation and it honestly scares more than any murder spree one could think of.

The scariest part of Snowgrave I’ve never seen people mention, is the fact that the player is forcing (presumably high schoolers, maybe even younger) to relentlessly kill things, even their own friends.

Seeing a wholesome character such as noelle becoming a cold blooded murder breaks my heart.I swear, I just froze in front of my screen thinking what will happen to her.

Cool fact. If you let Kris get down during the Berdly fight then Berdly will mention it to Noelle. Noelle will say she still hears their voice telling her what to do. This implies that its truely the players choice on what happens and it isnt Kris telling her what to do

I like how it's implied that Noelle's mom is really strict and very hard on her, so the idea of her being controlled by Kris and commanded against her will is made just a little bit darker. Just a little

I love how the player is the villain of the story. It’s a nice story twist

Spamton Neo isn’t creepy, but Snowgrave Route? That’s just downright messed up.

Also note the word choice in the Neo fight. Not “Kris called out for Noel.” But “You called out for Noel.” Not the first time something like that happens but the times it does happen I believe are mutually exclusive.

I like that this doesn't feel like a genocide route, it's just a weird little Easter egg/creepypasta, while the recruiter route is much more lore friendly, and feels like it's actually leading somewhere

15:50 Kris isn´t calling for Noelle. You, as the player, are whispering her name. Every other call was written as "Kris called"- However for Noelle it´s "You whispered" That makes this end even more creepy in my opinion.

This actively feels like the player is "gaming" the system the game doesn't normally let you kill people so you yourself are using Noelle as a way of bypassing this. It explains why the game itself act's "weird" when you take this path you are breaking the "rules" and doing it in a very unconventional way. Considering the clear discomfort these actions cause Kris and the fact you can't start doing this until Ralsei and Susie aren't around. Along with the fact Ralsei has conversations with Kris when the player isn't in control of them. It makes you wonder how this antagonistic view of the player will develop as the other chapters come out.

I like how the snowgrave route shows you the player as an actual entity in the game, considering the times you respond to Noelle when she thinks to herself

I keep thinking about what Noelle says directly after casting snowgrave. It doesn’t sound like she’s reacting to the horrific thing she’s just done, it almost sounds like she’s talking about something else entirely. She repeatedly says she doesn’t remember what she did with Kris to “get stronger”, implying she’s in some kind of dissociative state when using her ice powers. And we’ve reason to believe that Noelle has some repressed memories, so Noelle could very well be reliving something from the past when she’s talking after snowgrave.

In the very first part of the game, (where the player futilely selects how Kris would look) we were told that there was no “choice” - that the player couldn’t fundamentally influence/change Kris the way that we could Frisk in Undertale. Since it seems Kris (as a character rather than our avatar) actually doesn’t want to hurt/manipulate their friend, I’m now wondering if Toby Fox made it so that Deltarune as a game records/documents our influence on Kris growing, and how Kris tries to resist but ultimately must yield to our control despite their own wishes. It’d be super messed up if in the end Kris transforms into the way we designed them in the beginning (edit: fixed a typo)

This is actually worse than the Undertale genocide route, as here you're directly corrupting and manipulating an innocent girl into becoming a murderer. This route directly shows the player slowly taking control of Noelle too, we're making her into our second puppet.

I think what Noelle meant with nostalgic is that she and Dess used to watch horror stuff and she would get creeped out or scared by it, but now she just misses it

Dang, and I was bummed that I missed out on this "hidden route" everyone was talking about. Now, not so much.

I know this is supposed to be a serious vid about a genocide-like run but when he said "bouncing balls known as pps" i lost it

Great video, but you skipped a looootta details that only make this creepier. One thing I wanna point out is her moment with Susie. Susie said "she's feeling better now" implying Noelle wasn't feeling well before. Then, before the Queen fight, Susie says "Noelle needs to wake up". Noelle wasn't present so why did she use the words "wake up" here? Queen says that she has awakened too much already. Notice how ThornRing gives Noelle the Trance status effect. My theory is that, due to her trauma (more types of trauma, one from killing enemies and Berdly, and another from being forced to remember Dess's death via Snowgrave), she went emotionally numb and a bit more bold (her boldness stat keeps going up as the route goes on). So that's why their umm... smoochy time... was likely Noelle acting all on impulse, with her usual emotions severely number. What I think happened is that Susie found Noelle in her room distant and distraught, Susie heard Noelle out, who confided in her. Susie tells her it's a dream, which prompts Noelle to kiss Susie, with the reasoning that "it's a dream so whatever". If this were confirmed as canon, it would be the snowgrave equivalent of the moment in the normal route where Noelle suggests jumping from the wheel or asking Susie to hit her with her axe, but with the added change of Noelle's increased coldness and boldness.

Noelle is such a precious character I feel so bad for her on the Snowgrave route.

2 things I want to say. 1. There are 5 chapters left. Excluding Berdly, Noelle, Kris, and Susie, *there are 5 classmates left.* 2. If we see how Spamton is like a corpse without the strings, Spamton giving Kris some actual reactions, then it's possible that Kris is in a tough situation where he doesn't want us but needs us.

I feel like Kris soul was hijacked the same way as when Frisk fell into the flowerbed and their soul got mixed with Chara and the player. So that's why Kris acts weak when he removes the soul, it is still theirs but now under our control.

I dont remember exactly where, but the game tells us about Spamton, that he was created by a lighners dream but bond to stay stuck. noelle rembers a tragedy during interacting with Spamtons shop

Something I always found chilling is when you equip Noelle's watch the Kris. Her monologue at the end changes a bit and it always gives me shivers

Fun fact: The Thorn Ring is heavily implied to be a Homage to Dark Souls, likely being based off of the Ring of Thorns, which causes pain to the user via cutting into their flesh, and giving them a unique power. Further implication of it being a Homage to Dark Souls, is through the Currently unusable weapon, the Twisted Sword, which is only obtainable through combining the Thorn Ring with an Item called the "Pure Crystal".

Fun fact: There is a possibility that the "entity" controlling Kris is just the real Kris that everyone used to know. They are simply trying to break out of the control of the player

The plot twist is that in chapter 3, if you did Snowgrave, Berdly wakes up but you learn he catches a cold.

I always found it sad that you can see Berdly shift from looking determined to surprised when she starts casting Snowgrave.

toby is a genius writer ive only played the pacifist good end run on both chapters but seeing the playthrough on youtube just makes me,, sick,, like im going to pay for this as soon as ch3 comes out, even if i didnt really do anything just as deltarune made me cry laughing, it made my jaw drop in horror. never change toby, never change

I just noticed while watching this video that in the ending, Kris actually puts their soul back inside of them before the fountain covers the entire screen

I like how with Deltarune people are finally starting to realize that you the player and the character you play as (Kris or Chara) are separate beings. This was implied in Undertale but a lot of people didn’t really get it. At the end of the Genocide route, it’s Chara, your character that you played as, talking directly to you through your screen, not a child with a green shirt talking to a child with a blue and purple shirt.

This is why I love Deltarune and Undertale. Mainly because when you do a pacifist route the game seems so chill and gives off good vibes (with some gloomy touches ofc for the lore), but when you go with the genocide route everything gets so damn creepy. It's like the whole colour and chill vibe of the game you were just playing fades away, giving a completely different experience and feeling. I find that so damn amazing-

11:04 "If you're hurting my *friend* Noelle, then I have no choice but to stop you by force!" Berdly doesn't even use the usual sappy dialogue he uses at this point in the game, he drops the crush act and calls Noelle his friend instead of "My lady/damsel in distress" because he knows something's wrong. That relization made my stomach drop.

15:50 ...Kris called for Noelle? No. *Kris* wasn't calling for Noelle, Kris called for Susie and Ralsei. No...the one calling for Noelle...was *you.* * You whispered Noelle's name... Not Kris, the other times it said Kris called for Ralsei and Susie. In fact, if Kris faints during the Berdly fight, Berdly tries to call Noelle over with him, Noelle says she still hears the voice telling her what to do...your voice, most likely. That and after the hospital room where you tell her you were there for her or it was real and not a dream (19:47 ). Spooky. The control we have over Kris and Noelle is truly terrifying. I'm surprised you didn't note that when you meet up with Ralsei and Susie after the Berdly fight, they note Kris looks distressed too, eek.

If you equip Noelle's watch in the dark world as armor, and visit her in the hospital after the snowgrave route, she has an extra line of dialogue

I didn't think there would ever be a type of genocide route that would be as unsettling as the first game's, but BOY was I wrong.

Good job Toby, able to make the brightest of stories to the darkest of tragedies

“A creepy remix of the cyber city’s theme” It’s still a bop.

As someone who experienced Undertale entirely through Let's Plays, I never understood Flowey saying that the people watching the Genocide Route because they didn't want to do it themselves were way worse than the people playing it. Now that I'm actually playing Deltarune, I get it. Just watching this made me feel like absolute shit.

I know a few comments have pointed this out already, but I think the Snowgrave route highlights that Kris is their own entity, with their own wants and desires, and you're taking control of them. (I think) Kris wants to make peace with the Dark World, but you don't let them do that. Noelle comments on a creepy voice, not Kris' voice, and that being what she heard in the other world as well, the creepy voice likely being the player forcing their own will onto Kris.

Just a thing I noticed: In Chapter 1, the game constantly tells the player (or Kris) that they have no say in anything. In the Snowgrave route it's similar with Noelle in Kris' gradually changing behavior-- they get more possessive over Noelle and make choices for her. Cool theme I think.

I love how spamton sums up the player during the snowgrave route with”THANKS TO YOUR[JACKASS]STUNTS”

What I like about this route is that the closing of the fountain is unceremonious. As in no fanfare plays like it does in the first chapter, and on the normal route. It's just a nice (if you can call it that) little detail.

You know what makes this worse? *it’s so easy to abort this route* You have to carefully force Kris to say the most controlling dialogue options.

8:50 In the Normal Run, you solve the puzzle by trolling Noelle into using her Deer ability and jumping over 1 block obstacles to turn off the puzzle switch. In Snowgrave, you solve the puzzle by forcing Noelle to use a blizzard to wreck the puzzle's mechanism and stop the force field from the inside, rotting away the contraption within

I find it kinda funny how in a normal route Berdly tells Kris after the second fight that if they don’t get stronger they’ll never beat him. Yet here he’s confused on what they mean by “getting stronger”. I’m guessing it’s just because of how they’re getting stronger.

The start of Chapter Three is probably going to be Toriel accidentally burning the pie.

This route is so worth it. I played it through and it was SOMETHING. When you watch a video, you don't feel the same uneasy and uncomfortable feeling in your chest which you (at least i do, personally) have, when playing the Snowgrave route for the first time. Toby truly is a genius and I cannot stress enough of how unsettling is this path! Truly exciting, not like the first chapter. I really do hope that other chapters will be like that

The obvious thing is that Noelle tried using ice magic when she was younger, and something went wrong. Her power probably went out of control because she tried to use a spell she wasn't familiar with and she wound up hurting someone. The spell may not have been SnowGrave, but the consequences of it probably stuck with her, and now she has a mental block that restricts her magic, and why she associates more powerful magic with the name 'SnowGrave'. What the Player does is force her to slowly lift those restrictions on her mind by fear and trauma, culminating with her freezing Berdly solid, lifting her mental blocks and removing her inhibitions in the Dark World. As nobody comments on Berdly's breathing in the end, we can assume that he's still alive but probably in some kind of coma. This implies that Noelle's magic might not actually kill the target, but it can still cause harm. Like, say, putting someone in the hospital. And Rudy is reluctant to talk about precisely why he's in the hospital...

Susie: I wish we could tell Noelle could know that the adventure wasn't a dream. Snowgrave players: Alright. ~

I think Spamton is more of a cautionary tale than being a tragic figure, though he could also be considered tragic since pride was indeed his fall. He never actually gets what he wants (freedom), even if he temporarily gets a significant advantage (becoming Spamton NEO). So, he’s an example of wanting more and more but accomplishing nothing once you reach your peak and being used all along (through whoever is controlling him).

The song playing while Noelle talks about the terrifying voice sounds like gasters theme

3:24 “without a trace” The ice statues: “don’t mind me”