Hey! Fellow polish guy here. The creator of this series is an art college student, and Kraina Grzybów was kind of an evolution of his school project. He lives in a city about a driving hour from mine.
@@ElectroSwingingIt I'm not sure. He probably just likes those type of weird creepy vibes. As I'm not mistaken, he worked on some trippy comic books or something like this before, and he was inspired by his previous works when working on Kraina Grzybów
Yeah I'm gonna need a source on that, you could very easily be making something up about something trivial enough that no one would expect you to lie about it.
@@johnnothe if you use the precedence of the doctor saying the comment about the mushrooms almost being fully gone, it sounds more like withdrawal with her having the urge to die after that trip.
@@nate3058 "Reflowered," suggests rape to me since, "Deflowering," usually refers to taking someone's virginity, usually by force. The doctor mentioning the mushrooms receding could be drug related, maybe as an escape from the abuse and rape, or even could refer to an STD symptom such as genital warts.
@@theradiantdehd3997 The reflowered part though doesn't make any sense to me. How do you become a virgin again? Considering the first object described is an apple "And though it may be tempting..." I believe it may be Christian symbolism, also taking in the fact that Poland is very Catholic. Not only that, but "The mushroom land" could refer to the mushroom cloud effect atomic bombs create upon detonation, and the balding may coincide with the radiation and being "unrecognizable" aftermath. "The mushrooms are receding" and "I want to die", is more than likely cancer/chemotherapy, and what looks like a child's drawing of a brain scan in the doctors office. Due to the child like nature of the series, and what a child would probably think, a radiation zone, atomic bomb, and cancer would all be labeled as *mushrooms*, and *the land of mushrooms*. And finally the bright light symbolising death, and her last memories. Beyond this though, I don't have a clue for the spoon, ovaries, blindness, cow, and the mother. Though I imagine you can find plenty of symbols for cows, ovaries, and mothers in the Bible.
@@hiblast629 Even though, "Reflowering," could refer to recovery after sexual assault, you make a lot of good points. Although mushroomland could be referring to her being drugged while assaulted or turning to drugs afterwards, it could very well be symbolism for nuclear war too. It's tough to decipher since half the clues line up with one theory, and half with the other, but there's so much that still doesn't fit right. Maybe that was the point, or maybe we're just overlooking something completely.
I am from Poland and I have met the creator of this masterpiece. Apparently he used his students to act in the series. He used to have film related classes. His group of students was pretty small and nobody acctually wanted to play in his movies. He planned to have multiple actors in his series. His goal was to create something weird and open to interpretation and also- popular. His clips are complete chaos but he achieved his goal. How he came up with those weird scenarios etc? He was asked multiple times whether his job was done under the influence of drugs. He said that he had never done any part under influence of drugs. While he was going to sleep he was in some sort of state between sleeping and being awake. While in this state, all the crazy ideas came to his mind and he quickly wrote them down in his notebook. (sorry for any grammar mistakes etc)
Drugs involved indeed without any doubts , and of course his denial of not being under any-influence , common sense “ when a theif steals , the robber would not admit the fact he did the deed “ So how about shurooms or LSD trippp ? And there we go weird content has been created .
I'm from Lublin, creator's city. Ep. 3 was created, but is lost, because of damage of a hard disk, which contented it. About theories: he revealed that it's a private story of his family, 1988 is his birth year and Garwolin is town his mother comes from. In the game he set a home of his grandparents. He said that the fable is, but it doesn't make a bigger sense, episodes are fragment of a bigger story. KrainaGrzybowTV is styled as a Polish private TV station, date in the title of epilogue (21.09.1994) is a date of closing majority illegal private TV stations by Polish government.
lubimyczytac.pl/ksiazka/4550254/w-krainie-grzybow Cholera wie, ale nigdy o niej nie słyszałam. In the end titles, they say they use a fragments of book "W krainie grzybów", which is a polish book by Zofia Kopytlanka, about little girl named Karolina. But in the Internet there is no photo of author and just a little bit of the book, so it might be fake.
I suggested that Maggie represented the girl's repressed urges and feelings that she had to overcome and accept. What better symbol for that than the devil? Especially considering Poland is a Catholic country.
For the Nuclear War theory, you missed the fact that when looking at an atomic blast you end up going blind. Similar to what had happened to Agatha after looking at the mushroom light. And thank you for another high quality video! I always look forward to your content!
no, the way he phrased it was kind of misleading. in the epilogue, agatha recites a poem about a mother doing hurtful things to “protect“ her child (ie, filling her ears with wax so that she cant hear blasphemies.) that was just a line in the poem. its just another metaphor, presumably.
Hey, kudos for the very thorough overview, especially considering the language barrier! I'm Polish and I remember watching those videos back when they came out originally. They made quite a stir on Polish YT back then and spawned many theories as to what these clips are all about. I think all your hypotheses are accurate to a degree, however my view has always been that this is primarily a sort of a disguised warning of a nuclear conflict and each and every video's main theme, either explicit or implicit, is about that. First of all, I remember 2013/2014 was a really "paranoid" period in Poland, caused mainly by what Putin started doing in Ukraine. Russia's annexation of Crimea, which was an outright military intervention, upset many people here and somehow you could sense a certain unease that this could be the beginning of another major international conflict, which this time would be mainly nuclear (Putin is seen in Poland mostly as a lunatic with access to an atomic arsenal and itchy fingers). I even remember reading back then some article which pointed out that every major conflict in human history happens more or less every 70 years and is usually preceded by a grave economic crisis. 2015 would mark exactly 70 years after the end of World War 2 and we are still trying to recover from the 2008 housing crash... So it all fell into place neatly. But the time context isn't the only thing that convinces me "atomic" is the crux here. Poradnik Usmiechu is full of nuclear references and hidden clues, like for instance (and this is something you overlooked, but I don't blame you) -- at 3:37 you can hear a low pitched voice mumbling something unintelligibly. It's not in Polish and you might think it's just an irrelevant sound effect, until you increase the speed of that recording by approximately 140%. You will then discover that this is in fact an excerpt taken from one of the CONELRAD civil defense TV spots from the early 1950s, informing about the nature of an atomic reaction. Anyways, been a while since I watched these videos, so thanks again for making my day at work a bit less boring (and less productive, but the latter is in no way your fault). Pozdrawiam!
This is very interesting! I was reluctant to watch this video, but turned out to be mind bending in a good way. Thank you for the aditional explanation!
pamiętam, sama wtedy miałam paranoję że Putin też wjedzie na Polskę ?? Zaczęłam się bać nawet dźwięku przelatujących samolotów i petard (?), bo już mój mózg mnie nakręcał że to pewnie ruskie będą atakować XDDD o matko, masakra.
Oh god me too. I got recently reminded about Kraina Grzybów and it uncovered some deeply buried memories of unease. I still feel so uncomfortable and creeped out watching this as an adult. (idk is that weird to write in English even though we're both Polish? lmao)
Can you explain why is it traumatizing, to me (not polish) it seems like a weird fever dream compilation, does it have to do with something in the polish culture?
@@judoexpert2057 Maybe beacause at the time and even now, there wasn't anything like that at the time on polish youtube. And well, it may be more traumatizing for us beacause It's in our native language. I can't really explain it, but It was very traumatizing to me too. Answering your question, I don't see anything really connected to polish culture though.
@@judoexpert2057 I think it's part cultural thing. Many poles are still remember children shows like this. Not creepy tho. Just the 80's style. And it hit hard on the childhood memories.
I'm convinced that the rape/abuse theory is the most accurate one, and KrainaGryzbow uses the symbolism of drug use and warfare to explore Agatha's trauma. Agatha's mother is portrayed as distant from Agatha. I believe that the mother was negligent while Agatha was being abused. Maybe she ignored Agatha's cries for help, or simply neglected to take proper action when it was brought to her attention. The mother claims that Agatha was a "wallflower;" victims of abuse often withdraw socially and develop various forms of anxiety. Agatha's statement that her mother took her eyes could reference her loss of innocence after the trauma she suffered. She lost her childlike perspective on the world. Hence, when we see her real eyes, there are no pupils. The mushroom symbolism is blatant. It could indicate that Agatha literally uses drugs as a coping mechanism. It also could indicate that Agatha has developed dissociative tendencies. Either way, Mushroom Land is her escape from reality. She has estranged herself from her abusive mother in every way possible, which is why the mother says that Agatha left no return address, only "Mushroom Land." The war symbolism is a bit more subtle, and I believe it refers to Agatha's mental battle. She is trapped between two realms of existence. The first is her escape into drug use/dissociation with the character Maggie, who is either an imaginary friend, a hallucination, or secondary identity. Other characters, principally The Jean Man, represent her PTSD-related inner demons that torment her. But no matter how frequently she dissociates or uses drugs, she still exists in the real world. The random trippy and show horrific scenes are, rather than drug-induced, representations of her return to reality. For instance, when she pushes Maggie away, things become blurry and strange--she wants to hold on to Maggie, the one thing that gives her comfort, but Maggie isn't real. Reality for Agatha is scary and painful. The final thing I'd like to point out, which was also mentioned by @Slotzoffun, is the hospital scene in which the doctor states that "the mushrooms are receding" and "[she] is almost reflowered." To be "deflowered" is to lose one's virginity or innocence. The doctor isn't saying that she will literally become a virgin again; he's saying that she will heal from the trauma and move forward in life--however, in order for Agatha to truly heal, she must leave Mushroom Land (her addiction) behind, which she desperately does not want to do. So she's stuck. It's painful to live in addiction, but it's painful to recover and easier to maintain destructive habits. I see Agatha as a broken character representing trauma and addiction.
i feel like her mother was the one who SAed her and that this is why the relationship is so distant now. maybe this is why she says her mom "spooned out her eyes" as well. i think that's why she's just a black shadowy figure with a weirdly distorted voice. after the SA, the view Agatha mightve had of her mother probably quickly faded and instead of a warm comforting figure she was now just this dark blank shadow, this monster she could no longer recognize or trust anymore. the voice distortion also could tie in with her being someone Agatha can't recognize anymore after the abuse. the maternal connection is gone and the person she once saw is longer there. she may have called Agatha a cow to make her feel like her body was disgusting in order to make her feel ashamed of her body and to make her feel like she's "dirty" or repulsive as a way to make Agatha feel like SHE'S the one who should feel ashamed/guilty about the abuse, for being this "disgusting cow". i feel like this whole things is also why it shows a uterus and that the apple thing represents the SA itself. someone else mentioned that the way Agatha's mother is speaking also seems like that of someone responding the questions during a CPS investigation which is a possibility and someone also mentioned how the "reflowering" thing could be something related to "deflowering" aka losing virginity. also another possibility about the "cow" thing, sometimes when victims are going through SA some of them will try to put on weight to try become unattractive in their abuser's eyes in an attempt to get their abuser to leave them alone. maybe back when the abuse was happening, Agatha purposely gained weight during that time for this reason and was called a cow for it.
I couldn't be anymore jealous of your ability to articulate and explain that clearly through text... and i agree with most of your explanation. I will add, that you should never underestimate the creepyness of the European sense of humor.. my family is from Germany and some of my cousins are the oddest people ive ever interacted with, yet the most awesome easy to get along with prople. Take into account i dont have any psychological training, so there may be more nuance and subliminal messages than i realize. Anyways great comment, most ive read in months 🤣
Haha I feel you, sister.. every time i'm thinking "DO I HAVE TO...."... And then i scroll down through comments..Haha while turning down the sound.. freeeeeaky stuff, i can barely handle this. (Im btw above 30 and didnt think i got easily freaked out.)
Also, The city of Garwolin has yet another meaning for the Rape Theory- St. Karolina is a polish saint who was living in the city of Zawada during the Polish-Russian war. She sacrificed herself for her family when she was supposed to lead a Russian soldier to the camp deep in the woods, nearly near Garwolin. The soldier attempted to rape her on the way, and she started to run away through the forest, through potato fields ("My fingers smelled like potatoes, I didn't understand it") to finally be stabbed to death, but her virginity be untouched. Her symbols are a lily, an embroidered shawl, and "różaniec" (I really don't know how to translate this, so please just google it.). On many pictures, she can also be seen holding a flower close to her chest, much like Agatha-like doll shown in one of the episodes. Also, the word "rape", translates into Polish "gwałt" which also can mean "haste". On another note, Agatha's mother speaks in really common, nearly street Polish, which might suggest that Agatha moved from the country to the big city, (seen to have a connection with nature in Epilogue, multiple mentions of cows"). That would explain why she would trust the man in jeans, as he was a symbol of something previously untouchable and unachievable. Also calling someone a "cow" in Poland, means that someone is clumsly, naive and, basically, dumb. And I think that's all for now! If I find some 'fun' polish correlations i'll be sure to write them down!
At first i thought it was a fox, then he said squirrel, but i have no idea what it is. The only thing im sure is i do not want it appearing in my sleep tonight
Access to uploads one day early and more: www.patreon.com/NightmareExpo Also, I won’t be gone too terribly long. Leave me some creepy content to cover when I return. Love ya.
Great job bud! I've been so interested in this but have had no idea what she was saying. Thanks for translating it.. Her going bald could be smooth her sign of being in a place that nuclear war touched.
Nightmare Expo not sure how old *YOU* are but from my personal experience as a grade schooler in the 80's, I can assure you the look and feel of the videos are more reminiscent of the dated mid to late Seventies video than that of 80's videos. NEW 80's videos have a distinctly different style and look and feel overall. This reminds me of the 70's crap shorts we thought was dated back THEN
Nightmare Expo hey, I found a video on RU-vid which shows what the actor of agetha (I think that's how you spell her name), its in another language but it does reveal the similarities of both of them
KrainaGrzybówTV is sort of polish equivalent to these "abandoned and mysterious fnaf VHS tapes that were stolen/found in Freddy Fazbear's Pizzeria". in fact, fnaf isn't scary no more, but these videos that community makes, is making fnaf scary again
5:02 mhmm, yes what I was looking for . . . nightmare fuel, yes I have been finding this strange phenomenon called sleep plaguing me and this should be the key to the cure I was looking for, indeed
There is a scene where Agatha turns her mother around but instead of her face there’s Jeansman and it gave me “wait! You don’t remember what she looks like!” vibes
I always thought that Agitha was kidnapped as with evidence of the line " Kids at school simply told her that she will be taken at night, at midnight. That is what they told her, and to take a warm sweater along." Maybe she was either given to the kidnappers or the "kids" weren't kids, instead they were adults (or something like that idk). With the line "Mom, don't worry about me, I'm fine in the mushroom land." and the mother saying it wasn't Agitha's voice, I believe the voice would be one of her kidnappers. That brings me to believe that The Jeansman and Maggie the squirrel are her kidnappers. Maggie the squirrel is who I believe kidnapped Agitha as, when they were walking together Maggie asked about Agitha's age. I also believe Maggie raped Agitha with the scene in Smile Guide 2 where Agitha calls Maggie a fool, then Maggie gets mad, and after that Maggie stated "But I love you anyway." followed by a kiss. I also believe the entirety of what we see with the show is an actual show put on by The Jeansman and Maggie to torment Agitha and Caroline. I believe the Agitha with lipstick was a teenage Agitha before she was kidnapped. This Agitha is allowed to show her emotions and essentially be free. The Agitha we see in Smile Guide is a muted one. Not allowed to show her true feelings. I also believe Caroline to be a little girl who was kidnapped. There are some other little things but, that's about it.
I correlated that part to the idea of "taken" being "taken advantage of/raped" the sweater maybe to cover up lesions, or find comfort after. Maybe the kids really are adults who preyed on her, telling her they would take her and abuse her, to not cry over it (find comfort) - or Maybe that this was agatha opening up about what was happening to her to her mother, and when she didnt seem to understand, said that in mushroomland (her escape world from the trauma) she is fine.
I love how you're so interactive with you're audience! I look at the comments and see you've been commenting on almost everyone! I'm so happy to see that! It's like a full package good content and good personality! KEEP IT UP!!
Knowing as much German as I do (which is minimal) I instantly recognized the text on screen over the image of “Maggie the squirrel” as the word devil. That image definitely portrays that.
Sorry, I'm late! But I am from Poland and it was in the middle of the night when you uploaded it, so. The whole show was made by students for a school projects. They madr 2 first episodes and uploaded them to RU-vid. Shortly after it got popular they created their merchandise and after high demand thry made another episodes. It means that 2 first episodes have no special hidden clues because when they decided to make more of this they changed it to a webseries with secret meaning. I hope this helps (in some way) and if you need any more translating I am willing to help.
Also I forgot that the main character, Agatka is based on the appearance of their school's creator and the whole show is video version with edited story of the book ''W Krainie Grzybów'' you can search thst out
J4k3 Do you know if the grammatical errors ("How to apple", "how child") are due to the translation that Nightmare Expo used, or are they in the original script?
I had to stop watching this video- The distorted image of the show host scared me more than I thought it would. When I saw the thumbnail on my tv screen I knew it looked oddly familiar, despite never seeing the series before. Seeing it bigger once I started watching made me realize that I had indeed seen that face, or something similar, before. The figure in my bathroom. A woman with a melting face and bruised body, screaming. No, my house is not haunted and there isnt some woman stuck to the ceiling of my bathroom. I've had hallucinations all my life, I just thought it was interesting how this art project that I have never seen before looked strangely similar to one of the common hallucinations I have. Honestly made me panic a bit, which is why I stopped watching (sorry btw, nexpo, for not finishing it. Im sure it's a great vid!)
My theory is that agatha was raped. The men "torturing" or messing with her were the ones who took advantage and raped her. They could have been close, or so she believed, and they could have introduced her to "mushroom land" aka drugs. Agatha either became pregnant from the rape or the symbols represent her innocence being lost. The cow is known for being a symbol of fertility, paired with the baby, writing "mama", and the female reproductive system in the process of losing an egg are symbols of this. The doctor speaking about agatha being "reflowered" either indicates she had a miscarriage or the damage caused from the rape has healed. Agatha tells the doctor she wants to die because she does not want to live with the knowledge and trauma of being raped. Agatha's eyes were "opened" to the horrors of the real world and her loss of innocence.
i learned a lot from these tutorials, thanks man Let's see, I learned... Um... Uh Apples Those exist And Paper She mentioned that a lot Yeah I got nothing
I wonder why no one mentions how Teufel (displayed when the squirrel is introduced) means 'devil' or 'satan' in german. Why german? When apple is introduced in the first episode it's subtitled as 'apfel', which is apple in german.
in the doctor scene, the picture the doctor was pointing at looked like cancer cells, and they kinda looked like mushrooms. cancer kills, and 'mushrooms' thrive from decomposing materials. just a tidbit of a possible sickness theory, i was hoping he would have covered that, even a mention. i feel like it could be a lead, but i'm not very sure. amazing video, nonetheless!
In my opinion, i think agatha suffers with Manic Depression + Psychosis. As someone who suffers with both, Hallucinations, Delusions, Rapid mood changes, acting out (temper tantrums), self harm, and misidentification is common. Agatha consistently seeing Maggie the Squirrel makes me think that Maggie is a consistent Hallucination, along with jeans man and karolina. The line that really made me take the stance on Psychosis was “my hands smelled like potatoes. I did not understand it, and could not fully accept it.“ this makes me think about delusions. agatha was hallucinating that her hands smelled like potatoes, and her delusion made her think that that was worrying in some way, and that it was harming her. So she couldnt comprehend that her hands smelled like potatoes, and she couldnt accept it because her delusion wouldnt either. Idk this is just based off of personal experience ig
For the rape theory, the how to your child episode, if she had a baby because she was raped she would not like the baby. She tells it scary stories and get so mad she shakes the baby to death.
literally no matter how many times i try to watch this video, i cannot finish it. this shit is the only thing on nexpo's entire channel that actually fills me with fear. i feel ITCHY
I think the drug theory is a rather cheap way to explain this series, similar to the “it was all a dream” kinda theories where anything can happen so it just writes off all the unexplainable occurrences. While I think mushrooms definitely play a role in the story I think it’s much more a story of abuse and trauma told through a distorted child-like lense
@@Luka-vi4vn that was a YTP joke where Squidward says "This is the End" Before he says "IS HORRIBLE" As they show the theatrical poster for This is the End. I speak 0 Japanese except Terikiko Banzai
in support of the war theory - she says "mother took my eyes" "mother" being "russia the motherland" also i've read things saying that looking at an atomic bomb explosion can cause you to go blind
You know how she has all of these specks in her hair? In the event of a nuclear attack, you're supposed to wash your hair to get the fallout out of it. Maybe that has to do with the part where she goes bald in Smile Guide 4. Also, at 7:49 , "No one can predict the future. What we can do is be prepared for whatever might happen."
You should do a video on Yume Nikki (Dream Diary) sometime! It has various symbols and elements that can lead back to many different theories much like this, I think it'd be awesome to see your take on it, Nightmare Expo!
We can also see connections to the rape theory with the "you're beginning to reflower" line said by the doctor, to which Agatha states she wants to die. (Losing your virginity can be called being 'deflowered') As well as the episode all about child care. Edit: Almost forgot to mention the Jeansman's companion, Carolina, who could potentially symbolize another rape victim. (As he mouth is covered with a strip of denim material, possibly symbolizing how she feels/is unable to speak out about her rape by the Jeansman)
I thought the story was much simpler tbh Agatha was a good kid but got to know drugs which let her meet with many bad influences who then she had unsafe sex with one of them and got pregnant her mom kept calling her a cow so when she grew up she warned her child not to do the same shit but started to turn somewhat into the same as her mother and that Magi or whatever is like an imaginary friend or some mental image of her self loathing or something
I feel like this is another take on the Don't Hug Me I'm Scared series just a lot more aggressive from the start. Since this precedes Don't Hug Me I'm Scared I wonder if this was their inspiration and toned it back for wider audience acceptance but still keep the WTF factor. I kinda like this one a bit more.
‘Jeans were viewed as owning an item that did not share ownership with the government’ look, the Soviet Union was authoritarian at times but 80’s Poland was not worse than 1984. Communists don’t want to ban clothes? I feel like I’m losing my mind every time Americans talk about the eastern block.
The logic in that section was _incredible-_ jeans=freedom (and of course freedom=capitalism=US) therefore the denim-clad demons who spend the entire series torturing Agatha must secretly be the good guys! 🤔🤯 Amazing
So... Anyone else pick up on the changeling theory? Mushroom circles and young children being taken and Agatha's mom not recognizing her, etc? Plus the idea of covering her eyes, masquerading as a normal human child when she's really not, and the potential "otherworld" connections made by the "hallucinatory" sequences? No, just me? Ok.
Lol sorry nightmare expo I thought you were night mind for a second until I realized your voice was different I like your content though Also anything new on Kirk unger I know it isn't a good arg but the new video shows a person thanks
Hi NexPo, I don’t know if you’ll ever read this but, I watched the series again and your analyses. The series might have to do with “Generalplan Ost” where Germans kidnapped young Polish children and send them to reeducation camps, tortured, r-worded, separated into groups based on traits favorable to Germans. Ones that weren’t suitable for population were experimented on using psychoactive drugs. Unsuitable traits included: round headedness (they shaved the kids’ heads, just like in How to Hair). Ones that were suitable were taught “how baby.” Agatha probably tried to escape, which led to being chased by “Małgorzata 3000” and dogs barking, a synaesthetic recall to concentration camp life or imprisonment.
What about the word "Teufel" thats almost always there when maggi is.. if that word means in polish the same as it does in german it means devil.. so could she be in hell? or limbo? did she die? but what did she do to get her into hell?
Hi! Im also from Poland just like the author of Kraina Grzybów. The author is Wiktor Stribog. During one of his interviews, he said that he was inspired by the phenomenon of memes and internet virals. Kraina Grzybów is also strongly inspired by the philosophical idea of hauntology.
@NightmareExpo this web series is based on (and made as a marketing stunt for) a book, I don't know if it's in English too but you may look for the book if you like the series. The book actually says what the show is about (sort of). The book is called "W Krainie Grzybów" (In the Land of Mushrooms) and the author is Zofia Kopytlanka.
I haven't read much of the book yet, so the things I say below are based on the fragment I read, description of the book and (mostly) discussion with people who read the book. First I need to give you a bit of context and spoilers of the book. "W krainie grzybów" is about a girl growing up in one of the many, in that time, concrete apartment blocks (gray, dull and mostly poor neighborhoods build buy socialist government to accommodate workers). It takes place at the dawn of communism in Poland. She is being left alone in the apartment and starting to dream and wonder, discovering a different world, a complete opposite of her boring life, a world much more engaging and enjoyable but maybe even scary. The videos are her trips to the mushroom land, quite literally I think. Remember that the time of the fall of the communism was very difficult for people in Poland. They were used to live in socialism and need to face a completely new world. I think that the whole thing (book and videos) is a metaphor for transformation times in Poland, discovering new lifestyle, adapting to new times and, in the end, Agatka (main heroine) finds herself on the meadow which is, I think, a metaphor for new, brighter, reality. But on the other hand, I can be completely wrong. I could misinterpret all the mining of the symbolism or base it on the insufficient knowledge of the book. I'll post another comment when I finish the book ;)
