I’m not so sure about the practice pistol? If you’re holding the barrel and ‘the attacker’ pulls the trigger, that gun is now out of battery. It won’t fire again until the slide is cocked back. Those two shots that went off probably shouldn’t have
This was an awesome video on multiple levels, thank you for your openness, vulnerability and "objective" interpretation of the training and the psychological/physical factors of training.
Mike, do you/did you ever "wrestle" with being a cop during training of this level? I always spoke on this with current & former cops in training as well as in my current profession. It's something that I'd either see "a cop" or "joe who used to be/is a cop" and they both have very different takes when it comes to protection.
I’m glad to see actual training note where the guy with the gun actually fights back and doesn’t just stand their while you akido him. I really want to train with Greg Douglas.
I have been sat down by male and female training partners enough times to be pretty indifferent towards it. Sometimes someone simply executes a technique correctly. And that training looks like some of the best fun you can ever have.
I've been bested by a girl in jujitsu class that was technically better than me. The only reason I could defend or even come out on top was cuz I was stronger and still had some experience. But she was TECHNICALLY better and I lost to her a few times.
Much respect to you for being willing to upload content that makes you "look bad" (in reality it does the opposite). I know it's not the first time. All about that journey.
Mike is a real one. He can take any smoke. He'll enjoy the suplex to the dome-piece if he can't shake it with sneaky beaky style. But will endure any smoke. Oos. @StreetSenseiMike
Random thought, could PTSD be considered a self induced drug? 🤔 Like people who give in to fear 😩, to some degree, seem to get high on it. 🤔 Instead of 😤 giving the steam.
My entire family, including the teenage son, has trained with Craig Douglas. I’m a female in late 40s and I’ve done 3 classes. They are the best! I get pretty roughed up, and concussed at one of them, but they are invaluable for anyone who takes self defense/combatives seriously.
This mostly comes from a HEMA background, but interestingly, often the best medieval weapons for women to use are the largest ones. Longswords, spear, halberds, etc... Turns out being slightly taller on average gives most men very little benefit when the opponent still has better reach and can take you out with one good hit. And yes, guns also have pretty good reach. Turns out guns are pretty good weapons. PS: I suppose bringing up height when Mike is involved might be a bit unfair.
I have worked with a group that engages in scenario training seminars here in Colorado and I LOVE IT. You can train in class, go to tournaments and all of that stuff but when you are shoved into a car door and the person attacking you has the goal to take you down it gets me going. It is not the real thing but it is as close as we can make it and under pressure is where you find out if you have learned it or have been faking it. Over the years of training I have know black belts that have had their asses handed to them when the real thing came along because all they had ever done was train in class and had never really faced an unknown opponent that was ready to do it. So get out there and get some training under pressure!
There's always something to learn from Your work. And those who forget that loss is better lesson than win, usually don't do much more than complaining and pointing others mistakes.
Only Icy Mike can unabashedly upload a video showing a woman pile driving him onto his head and still be considered a certified badass! Make no mistake, the woman in question (Asia, if I heard correctly) is also a badass. I hope the structure and alignment of your cervical vertebrae has recovered, Mike.
An Icey Mike street beef fight represents that unadulterated American ass-kicking grit. Thanks for the lessons. Next time I spar I will visualize that I am you Icey-Mike and I will move forward and throw every combo like I am the second coming of Icey-Mike. I'll still go light of course, but it is an exercise I will implement.
Hey Mike I know it's really hard to give any constructive helpful tips as a youtube commenter and there's a lot of variables involved in these situations so I'm prefacing this by saying I'm sorry if I come off foolish or ignorant, (coulda shoulda woulda and all that) and I'm sorry if I'm presumptuous in any way but I've been in a situation like 10:30 a TON where I train (granted not all the time when a weapon is involved) and can honestly say that drilling techniques like the peak out can really help in situations like this. I know you said you were being complacent and I completely understand and if you already utilize this technique I'm sorry but if there's even the smallest chance it's not something you use all the time (or even if there's someone reading this who isn't aware of techniques like that) since you're not big on grappling I highly recommend trying to incorporate it into your 'more common' moveset.
I do actually think that the person picking you up being a woman is important. I'm a woman myself, a very small one at that, and practised Judo since I was a kid. My ability to throw much larger man and use gravity is a much better plan than the force of my hands or legs. I'm never going to defeat a larger dedicated attacker even if I had the boxing ability of Clarissa Shields. But I know that I can throw a 200+ lbs man on his skull, against his will, if he has little to no training. I think video evidence of fights back this up. The only time a woman wins this fight is if the man is physically pathetic, doesn't fight back, or she hits his head off of something solid. Only one of those scenarios is within my control.
Just wanted to add, because if the ending segment, that showing a woman being extremely effective using this training against someone who does actually know how to fight, shows it works.
Hmm its an interesting discussion, I think what you say is important, I was actually going to say the same thing about judo girls being able to destroy men twice their size who have no training. As a karate blackbelt, when I started training judo I got thrown hard a number of times by a girl who was a yellow belt and about 20kg lighter than me, thats for sure worth people taking note of, important for women especially to know they have that ability if they get the training on the other hand Mike here got beat at grappling by someone who was heavier and better trained on the ground and as he said, had a more aggressive mindset. so its not a surprise or all that noteworthy weather it was a guy or girl. The take away should be that having more ground skill and a good mindset are a huge advantage to have its true that men have denser muscle and bone and so are generally stronger but the weight discrepancy probably puts them on a level playing field if not her having the advantage already so its kind of what I would expect please let me know if you think I am way of base with those observations though
Having done the MUC stuff myself, it really is deceptively diffficult to simultaneously intelligently communicate and also key off of physical cues and maintain distance. So I really empathize with you there. Also it’s so fucking hard to manage the ramp up. Go too hard too fast and you’re suddenly the bad guy who escalated shit. Go too slow and you’re taken advantage of.
Seems one legit critique in that 2 on 1 scenario would be the leap from empty handed striking to gun brandishing. Wouldn’t OC spray presentation, & even deployment have been more prudent than pointing a gun at already agitated people? Albeit OS spray not as likely to be effective in ending the aggression in the event the drunk or the drunk’s friend truly intended to indict serious bodily injury.
Hahah you got beat up by a big, strong, fast, well trained girl. I kid brother. Great video! This type of training is always awesome to watch, hope to do more training like this myself.
"Stop trying to have the last word." The most important piece of advice of all. If the other dude has gone from, "I'm gonna beat your fucking ass" to "whatever man, I don't want to talk to you, just go away," you have already achieved SUCCESS in de-escalation. Time to quit while you're ahead. "just shake my hand bro, so we're cool." "just a fist bump, everything's good, right?" "hey just see things from my perspective, buddy" "lemme just grab you a drink so this is behind us" If you're saying any of this, it's actually YOU who is the asshole. That's because what you're really communicating is that your desire to have "closure" or whatever is more important than their desire to be left alone. There should be academies which grant black belts in Fucking Off
I'm interested in slightly more outlandish scenarios. Like shit that has little to know practical application. Like, grappling while holding your breath. All the same submission rules apply, but also, if you breath first, you lose. Or fighting with your pants around your ankles. Or fighting someone you're handcuffed to. Just for shits and giggles.
Best video I have ever watched from you at first it was you and Jeff Chan now this is my favorite video, do you know where I can do this kind of Combat training with guns?
How about you show that footage to some lawyers who deal with real-life-cases like this and ask their opinion? I think that would be really interesting. Edit: You getting the backseat was one of the smartest things I've ever seen in fighting! You used the surroundings and being the smaller guy to your advantage mid-fighting! That's movie-ninja-level stuff, kudos! Edit 2: If somebody is a better fighter than you, in better shape than you, stronger than you, faster than you, more flexible than you or younger than you, it doesn't matter if they're a man or a woman. You don't train to outshine men or women, you train to be: hard2hurt. ;-P So fuck gender bullshit. There will always be someone who can kick your ass. What difference does it make to your personal worth if some of them are women? Why do you think it makes you a better if it's just men?
You should be embarrassed if you get beaten up by a girl... If you're a high level professional male MMA fighter or something similar. For everyone else, there are women out there that can beat you up, and that's nothing to be embarrassed about. Asia sounds like a badass, no embarassment in getting beat up by a badass
The only thing that is really odd about being beaten up by a woman is if you keep mentioning her gender. You know women are dangerous Mike, you train them to be. As you said, sometimes people are better than you, either at a specific aspect or overall. You got beaten up by someone better. No shame in that, it happens to everybody sooner or later. The REALLY tough part is avoiding finding excuses and focusing on taking lessons. I respect your mindset in that regard.
Part of the problem with you saying you aren't being serious is to be frank, you aren't being serious. It's training, essentially play acting. You know deep down that none of it is real and the suspension of disbelief is really hard in these fake crime scenarios. In the car when you told the dude to pull over and I'm gonna kill you, no one serious about robbing someone like that would be getting that close and talking as much. It would pretty much be, dude pulls gun, driver does exactly what he says, dude with gun wouldn't talk as much or get close and take his eyes off dude. You basically gave him a chance to disarm you on purpose. Not saying this stuff doesn't help at all, but until something is real and happens to actually threaten your life, you never know how you are going to react. Lots of people think they'd be bruce lee until they have a gun actually in their face. As far as the drunk wallet skit...in real life if some random dude on the street is coming up on me and i have a gun and concealed carry permit I'm pulling it and saying don't come any closer as I back away and get the fuck outta dodge. No one with a single brain cell is gonna pursue you knowing you are armed and they aren't. Getting into a physical altercation with someone when you have a gun on you is unnecessary and allows them to possibly get a hold of your weapon. Just tell them to back up and stay away as you retreat out of the situation.
12:54 so does it matter at all she was better than mike and he lost nothing wrong with that i do not understand why its such a big deal becouse he lost to a woman? So if the exact same thing happened but it was a guy he lost to it would be fine?
It is an it isn't misogynistic to point out that it was a girl that dumped you on your head. People like to pretend that womanhood is the end all and be all of physicality. The important fact is she was stronger, better trained, and more motivated, so she crushed you. Estrogen, or more importantly having less testosterone, makes getting and maintaining muscle more difficult, but a woman who trains significantly harder will crush a man who doesn't train that much any day of the week. Its so funny when people pretend that the weakest man is stronger than the strongest woman, like there is some sort of categorical divide. Like women must definitionally be weaker than a man.
The challenge is putting in the reps. It takes repetition to make techniques and behaviors automatic and repeatable, as well as to figure out what works and doesn't work for each of us given individual skill/fitness levels, body types, and communication styles. Great video, Mike. And very cool of you to share both the successes and lessons learned.
Looking at Asia's build, she really isn't that much different in size from you. They say pound for pound guys are stronger, but that all comes down to how much training each person is doing. As you said, she was better. Does that mean she's gotta train 2-3x as hard as you to get there? Possibly. But at the end of the day, when you met her in battle, that's what she brought to the fight. She seemed to be highly technically proficient, and if you're both coming into it at relatively similary strength, that's going to play a bigger part. Kudos on not being embarrassed you got "beat up by a girl". I mean, it might be embarrassing to get beat up by anyone, and that's fair. I've followed Shivworks and your channel for quite a while, and I love all the content put out by both.
@@joethetoad I have trained multiple martial arts, even competed, am relatively strong for my size, and there are plenty of women who I cannot lay a hand on due to superior footwork, timing, etc. those factors are not to be underestimated.
No shame in getting beat by anyone who puts in the time and effort to be a beast like this woman clearly does. My friend Christina and I trade ass beatings in our dojo all the time. She is an absolute fucking unit.
Yeah bro. I'm with you. Warrior women are out there. To get my black belt, I got my a$$ handed to me by a young lady. For every 1 punch I threw, she landed 3 punches and a kick. I have that utmost respect for a woman's full potential. This was a late upload. 😂
I hear you man. One of the toughest sparring matches I ever had was a woman, and she did the same thing to me. She was a Tae Kwon Do student visiting our school, and I was like "LOL, Take Your Dough", but man was I in for a surprise.
Women who train in combat sports often have the mentality to train harder and recognize most of not all situations against a man is an uphill battle. To “win” we have to be better. I am one of two women where I train, and we have to be more aggressive and assertive to gain the dominant position.
@@Bmoon8907Yeah, it often takes us working twice as hard to be treated half as seriously. It is what it is but I'd like to have female training partners once in a while and not end smelling like stinky pits and ballsack sweat after every grappling session 😂😂
I feel like maybe the challenge is psychological. After being a cop for a long time, I bet one would grow used to being treated with a wary respect for most encounters in which you would have to consider the implications of your words or actions in a dynamic way. Maybe that's why you're starting off flat-footed during the MUC; you haven't fully yet deconditioned the socio-psychological response you cultivated being a cop.
My authentic behaviour is to be kind. The mistake I tend to make from a life or death situation perspective, is I tend to react somewhat politely and not behave overtly paranoid... I detect indications of risk, and I could establish solid distance and exclaim a clear boundary, forcing the could be attacker to let go of his bluff if he's to persue me... Instead I respond more authentically with how I see myself reacting in a situation and then try to handle it best possible from there. Maybe I ought to start just assuming the worst case situation each time, but if I did so, I'd have to start reacting like that all the time in public, even when it creates an uneasy atmosphere for people around... cuz if you're gonna make it as difficult as possible for a stranger to approach you and get near you, for the purpose of "winning" a scenario, then you better be willing to do the same in public... if not you're better off taking a little more of a chance in general, but having trained for situations which can happen, when you don't completely have your "guard up" at all times. Apologies for taking so long getting to my point :p
Good. That means you're a normal, well-adjusted person. Risk assessment is also a skill, and 99 times out of 100, you'll be perfectly fine. If someone were to try maintaining 6ft distance and frontal view of everyone in a crowded bar, it would look absolutely insane.
I always appreciate your readouts of the Shivworks courses. Great content and your commentary on them is always so honest and insightful. A couple comments... I LOVE the point about conditioning them to sharp hand motion before the gun seizure. That was aces. Asias palm strike is textbook beautiful. I'd put that on a demo film. Most of my perspective on this comes from an international travel, counter-kidnapping concerns not from usual self-defense conditions, so I think I'd be inclined to be much more aggressive. I would be drawing as soon as I saw a second person in the equation, especially if they were trying to maneuver for position. And if they've seen the gun and continue to advance, then I'd probably be shooting and then heading straight to the embassy or the airport. Great vid. Merry Christmas.
I think that the "palm strike" you're talking about is actually intended to be an eye jab without the big clunky helmets. She's just pulling the fingertips back and letting the palm heel hit because those visors are tougher than human finger bones. Craig's a big proponent of it for MUC because it's a relatively low-stakes escalation if you've misjudged their intent.
@@CaymanGiordano I don't know Douglas' curriculum, but I'm pretty sure that palm strike is intended to be a palm strike (not a substitute eye jab). A lot of self-defense systems (Dieter CQD for example, also a lot Krav versions, etc) teach the palm strikes to the head as the primary tool because 1) repeated blows to the head are the most reliable way to stop an attacker and 2) they palm strike is the simplest strike to teach, simplest to use, has the lowest need for accuracy, and works even with fingernails.
I wonder why people believe just because it’s a girl, men can beat them. Average man is around 180ish and a woman who trains can easily be close enough in weight that the skill gap can be bridged if they train hard. A trained woman can beat average men and it doesn’t mean you’re a terrible man it just means you need to get in a gym lol
Asia is a beast! Her jabs surprised me every time due to, in part, her decisiveness, commitment, and her apparent confidence. Lightening fast, effective, and appropriate. Is that her at 2:23?
Always prepare for the most weird shit ever because it can get crazy and almost like a fantasy movie. This type of training is not useful often but possible. 'That's never gonna happen/work' isn't something that I believe in.
I think in a real scenario LEAVING is fine. Like when are you stuck in a 20 foot circle with a drunk saying you took their wallet? Always train leaving a scenario when possible. But sure, If you were locked in a giant room with only 2 people like that, drawing would probably be morally fine.
You’d love AmTac and RedBeard Combatives if you liked this kind of training. I run classes like these, but it’s very easy for the training to fall into a slippery slope where actual lessons cannot be learned. So be sure to always vet where you train.
@@andredubbs4854 There’s certain training that yields no valuable lessons. Let’s imagine you are stacked up on the outside of a building during FOF. And someone from the woods shoots and kills your entire team. What was the lesson learned from that? Don’t get ambushed? That yields no valuable lessons. Force on force can very easily turn into a team death match/paintball/airsoft game if you aren’t careful.
First scenario, going by Georgia law, you were a hundred on the level of force as far as legality. And I mean you walked away alive and not badly touched up so I think it was a good plan. But for real man, just quit fucking around and get some Judo or wrestling and some ground grappling on. You're always (correctly) telling us in the comments and your audience as a whole to quit whining about stuff and just train. You're one of the most broadly trained people and you've got access in your circle to a lot of really great folks. 2024 Mike, make it a year you get serious about ground grappling and some kind of wrestling.
You said you were involved in over 200 uses of force while a police officer. How long did you work as a police officer? Is this a normal incident count? Average? Above average?
In EVERY scenario you showed Mike, there's a simple helping hand you never mentioned!! PEPPER SPRAY!! Lol that's my "I can't help, leave me alone" statement. If it's gotten to the point of physical violence the spray is a no brainer, fleeing after the discharge, and then VERY LAST is going for my pistol. Obviously setting will determine the order of those but if you're not in a place you shouldn't be, the chances should be slim, shit happens tho Lol Thanks Mike!!
Being beaten in grappling by someone with more experience and who is smaller is normal. Those who laugh at it probably never did it. I can say that when I started grappling, not knowing much, and rolling with a female NAGA champion who was 90 lbs smaller than me I got smoked and choked. She could beat almost any guy or fight them to a stale mate. It was impressive to be part of.that.
I think, if you were better at grapplijg, you wouldnt have gott3n slammed on your head. I saw a potential arm bar there. Kudos for the transparancy tho. You should consider getting good at something you dont lik3. Maybe once you get good at it, youll like it.
@hard2hurt your analysis that Asia is strong as shit and dedicated training wise is most accurate. I know first hand myself. Look forward to seeing you in another Shivworks course.
I gave up wearing jeans a long time ago. A buddy has hosted several of Craig's classes and I haven't been available. I did go to Cecil Burch's -Just enough Jits class and it was a killa rolling around with someone bigger stronger trying to take your weapon. At 54, if I get tied up, I am immediately going to blade. I am around a SUV 100% of the time so fighting in and around the SUV is a definite possibility. Back in my younger patrol days 90's, about 4 of us were rolling around and trying to figure out a defense against haymakers etc. Good stuff, keep it up.
When I spar my kickboxing instructor I get beat up too. She is like a head shorter than me, thin and weigh 10 kg less(I weigh 62 kg) but I still get my ass handed to me for the same reason as you Mike. She is more skilled and takes the initiative. But I don't feel bad, it's super fun and I am learning.
The part where you pulled the gun, since you asked, I don't think you really could have done anything different, there's part of me that says that maybe that's one of the times where "just run" might be valid advice but honestly I don't know.
