F1 Hybrid Era Seamless Gearbox Pt1

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It's happening! I'm designing a 3D printed model of a modern hybrid era Formula 1 gearbox. There's so much cool motorsport engineering that goes into these, and I'm going to do my best in this video to highlight some of the features I've discovered. This is a work in progress and I will have future videos further detailing the design and building of the mechatronics and controls.
#f1 #3dprinting #gearbox

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28 янв 2022

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Комментарии : 66

@AlexTamayo. Месяц назад

Driver 61 sent me here! Great video, mate!!

@dezertraider Месяц назад

DRIVER 61 SENT ME...BRILLIANT VIDEO,THANK YOU

@antoniomartinezpardodevera3772 Год назад

This guy built an entire F1 gearbox. From scratch. That is impresive. Really impresive

@BotsWeekendCovers Месяц назад

How do you only have 8k subs? You should be at 2 mil!!!! Fascinating stuff man!!!!!

@normanrobinson1932 2 года назад

Thank goodness you're still out there working to perfect the design of your replica *"F1 Gearbox"* ..!!! 🙏🙏🙏 This is my favorite *Mechanical Design & Engineering* channel on YT..!!! 👍💯😎 Sooo, looking forward to your next posts as you develop the design..!!! 😉

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

Thank you! Comments like yours are what keep me going with projects like this.

@smoothbraindetainer 26 дней назад

I know it's not F1 compliant, but Toyota has a hybrid CVT that only uses gears, no belts. Hard to beat that for shift time when it's seamless.

@adamchurvis1 15 дней назад

You are a pretty awesome guy! Now you've got me missing racing school in Quebec in 1979. I remember they warned against "Gearbox Fever," which is when a trailing driver focuses on the gearbox of the car in front of him and ends up in the same accidents.

@rlarajr2001 Месяц назад

I too was referred here by Driver 61. Very detailed, but easy to follow along.

@bertanderny 2 года назад

Really excited to see how this turns out, always fascinating to see the crazy engineering behind F1.

@Mineratron Год назад

Cool projects, thanks for sharing. Came here from the rabbit hole that is MotoGP seamless gearboxes… 🤓

@IndeterminateDesign Год назад

Hahaha. I’ve been down that rabbit hole myself. Thanks!

@bytesandbikes 2 года назад

That looks amazing! Good luck and thanks for sharing

@osholt 2 года назад

I must say, I really enjoy watching your videos and have for a while. I hope the channel continues to grow!

@LangstonPerformance24 4 дня назад

Amazing videos 👏👏👏😍

@temyraverdana6421 2 года назад

It's wonderful. Thanks

@vincenthettwer6453 Год назад

Really impressive work man!

@Greg-om2hb 24 дня назад

Wow! Thank the algorithm. One more subscriber.

@frankhage1734 Месяц назад

Yes! What a great video. There's millions of nerds who will grok this. Creating good virtual models is an art. 3D printing functional parts from these models is next level.

@neilmchardy9061 Месяц назад

Your use of the word grok, I believe that comes from a sci fi book I once read but can’t remember it’s name

@p00pie 2 года назад

great video

@michaeltams4645 Год назад

hot shit! thanks for sharing!!

@Casey_Schmidt 2 года назад

This will be another awesome series, I can't wait for the upcoming epodes! I also wish I was this good at CAD.

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

Thanks! I don’t know if I’m good at CAD but I’m persistent.

@umbeatable2770 2 года назад

@@IndeterminateDesign man im a hige fan of your gearboxes pls were can i download this one and the other you made ??

@MrWarhead16 Год назад

What software of CAD do you use? These kind of design looks really hard to draft.

@xxxratixxx 2 года назад

That is so cool You know is that 3d model works there is going to be someone that is going to cnc that gearbox and test it out with some type of motor

@jpmorgen5726 4 месяца назад

Nice work and great understanding of your passion! You must have lloked into the Moto GP gearboxes?

@blizztech7978 2 года назад

you should check out MATLABS and the Simulink addon. its great to help you with coding and has an awesome modeling environment and simulator. plus the community is really informative, costs money for the one time license, has a free triail. I just got the home edition because im only trying to make some autonomous robots, but I think you would benefit from it a lot with all the technical working your running. Awesome watching you build these marvelous of engineering, keep it up. would have loved to see the other F1 gearbox in an rc car :p

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

Thanks! I really do need to check out Simulink. The hard part is I’m weak in the math side and being able to accurately model systems. The active suspension project definitely has sent me back to the books to brush up on my linear algebra.

@beachboardfan9544 2 года назад

AWWWWW FUCK YEA!!! F1 GB sequel!!!

@mauriziogiasan4411 2 года назад

top

@savclaudiu2133 26 дней назад

Rely nice project. Can you indicate the patent referenced at 3:02, and maybe other relevant patents?

@IndeterminateDesign 26 дней назад

I’d need to dig through all that again, but look for patents from Xtrac and Graziano on seamless shift gearboxes and you will find them. Also, sometimes look for the individuals listed on the patents, they often patent the F1 stuff under shell company names.

@kiiiisu 2 года назад

thank u random person! :D

@geniferteal4178 3 месяца назад

Maybe you're getting to it. I thought there was a rule that said you can't be in 2 gears at the same time. Obviously this wouldn't work anyway but what it would do is allow one gear to disengage the previous gear. I thought that wasn't allowed which meant there had to be some delay as small as It might be between Shifting gears.

@diegoatzeni. Год назад

Hi, I follow your project very interested. I'm curious as to how to make the Shift Barrel, I can't find information on how to make it. I intuitively understood that a straight channel is neutral, a positive 45° channel engages and a negative 45° channel disengages. My gearbox under construction is only 6/7 but linear, with only one Shift Barrel. Hope to hear from you. Happy Holidays. Diego Atzeni congratulations for all your videos

@IndeterminateDesign Год назад

So I don’t design the shift barrel around an angle. I lay out the pin slots on paper in a table. Since there’s multiple slots usually some will be in a no engagement state and one will be the engaged gear. So with this table I know how many times the shift barrel moves to go from neutral to say 6th gear. I divide 360 by that number and I know how many degrees the barrel turns per shift. Then knowing the diameter of the barrel I can calculate the linear distance of each shift. I lay this out in a sketch based on the initial table, then in the CAD software I use, called fusion 360 I can wrap these sketches around a cylinder using an emboss command. Depending on how this looks I may add extra shift positions (divide 360 by a larger number) to make the angle of the pin slot steeper. Another extra is you can add a small flat spot to each engaged position so it’s not so sharp. I usually use 2-3 degrees of rotation which will translate to some linear distance depending on the shift barrel diameter.

@HisNameIsRobertPaulson01 Месяц назад

Prepare for incoming views!!

@markushansen5586 2 года назад

How did you design the grooves for the shift barrel?

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

I may do a video on that. The easiest way is to lay it out the shift order on graph paper. Then knowing the diameter of the shift drum and some math you can determine the length of each shift position and draw it in CAD.

@UncleChefsTable 2 года назад

Very nice VDO. How could i buy or Download this gearbox set?

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

Thanks. It’s available for download on the GitHub. I include the cad as well as you most likely will need to make tweaks as it’s model with very tight tolerances. github.com/indeterminatedesign/F1Gearbox

@Danial_G_CR 4 дня назад

Hello, I understand that you are a great engineer and the best person I know to ask this question: how do I understand what gear ratio to use in my transmission? I'm currently engineering a single seater car, I'm trying to make it as small and as light as possible and could really use some advice to potentially cut down costs on having to rebuild parts because of my lack of experience. I'd be very grateful to you for a reply, thanks in advance❤

@IndeterminateDesign 2 дня назад

Thank you. That is a complicated question and I’m not an expert on this particular topic. It depends on factors like the motor’s powerband, vehicle weight, shift time, and usage. For example, many cars with a high power to weight ratios have a very tall 1st gear. This is because they are traction limited and the additional time for the gear change would make the car slower. Cars with narrow power bands, like older F1 cars, might stack the middle gears very close together so they are at peak torque on the exits of particular corners. The only way I know of optimizing this is through simulation or modeling. I don’t know how, but I’ve seen Matlab or Excel used, and for more complex track based simulations something like Adams Car Simulator.

@Danial_G_CR 2 дня назад

@@IndeterminateDesign thank you

@SidneyCritic 2 года назад

Are these g-boxes the same as the MotoGP seamless g-box. From your vids there seems to be F1 info, but for MotoGP there isn't a skerrick of anything.

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

Yeah, this is very different to the MotoGP gearboxes. They do tend to use the one way clutch on the gears so that two gears can be selected at once. There’s some info out there on the Ducati gearboxes and some detail in the patents for Honda. Someday I may try designing one but it would take a fair bit of time to reverse engineer based on my initial assessment. Obviously lots of details have been left out.

@michaellacey3363 2 года назад

What size 3D printer bed would you need to build this?

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

It’s still being designed, but to print the front cover in one piece it would need a 300mm x 220mm. I’m going to have to split the larger pieces in half to fit my printer.

@michaellacey3363 2 года назад

@@IndeterminateDesign thank you for your reply. I’m a huge F1 fan and am new to 3D printing. Haven’t even bought my printer yet. Still undecided, but want to do things scaled down, even if they’re not functional. I’ve worked with CNC machining for years, but it’s time to change. Your page is amazing and I will be following it for sure. Do you sell your .stl files at all?

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

I don’t sell them. I have most of them for available for free on github.com/indeterminatedesign I’m still not sure if I’ll be able to put this latest F1 gearbox, I hope to know soon.

@michaellacey3363 2 года назад

@@IndeterminateDesign I’d gladly try to help from a design point if you ever like assistance or input. I’ll be working on replica steering wheel or a few!

@neisjo Месяц назад

Someone on here is not linking to your videos for credit…

@VEC7ORlt 27 дней назад

Closely guarded secrets my ass - how many ways are there to connect a few gears together?

@dzidmail 9 месяцев назад

2:18 fyi, I think "no torque loss" is more of a marketing term of an entire system. I think they way you envision this gearbox is not accurate. I think the dog of a oncoming gear would be destroyed if it was slammed in and the offoing dog would not have time to disengage. And even if both survived, the disturbance to the output shaft would be enormous. Is that really how it works? Maybe I am biased by working mainly with passager vehicle transmission. designs. To me the minimal requirment to have smooth and seamless output torque transition from one gear ratio to another for the upshift under load is to have two friction clutches somewhere (or one friction and one one-way dog but since there are two gear shafts, that would mean at least to friction clutches anyway). Then together with input torque managment during shift (when new friction clutch is being loaded, increase the input torque, and then to allow for engine speed to go down, decrease input torque - while friction clutch is slipping and transmits torque proportional to its normal force) the output torque can be continuous and even boosted for a short time when engine is dropping the speed. Traditionally if you have only dogs, the output will have to drop to zero for a fraction of a second before engaging new dog. It also have to drop close to zero to even be able to disengage tirst dog. Since there are two shafts with gears preselected and marketed as a seamless, I am guessing those boxes are operating on DCT principal (two friction clutches) and two shafts are simply used to preselect the new gear.

@IndeterminateDesign 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for your comment and for sharing your insights! You raise some valid points about how traditional gearboxes and dual-clutch transmissions work in passenger vehicles, and I appreciate your perspective. I wish there was more information available around these gearboxes. It really comes down to the controls and speed of the actuators used in the F1 gearbox. F1 seamless gearboxes utilize a combination of advanced technologies to perfectly synchronize the dog engagement of each gear and they have rapid partial clutch engagement/disengagement. This allows for extremely quick and smooth gear changes even under load. It was a very steep learning curve from what I’ve been told of the development process for the early seamless gearboxes. The first gearboxes shattered driveshafts, locked up and exploded, and caused very unpredictable behavior when downshifting. In the late 90’s when they started development of these types of gearboxes, they didn’t have the computing power and advanced torque sensors to have the gearboxes to be able to smooth out the torque delivery and adapt to the torsional deflections inside the gearbox. It took 8-10yrs to really develop the gearboxes to the level that we saw in 2009+ F1 cars.

@TaxiTrettonnollsju-lb6sz 7 месяцев назад

❤please Santa, I want a F1 gearbox.

@fieldmartan4426 2 года назад

Any updates?

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

Sorry, I was hoping this would go faster but life has been busy. The 3d printer melted, it was rebuilt, then the mainboard died, and then I had to wait on parts. The good news is the core parts have gone thru a couple of rounds of refinement and the printer is now running 24/7 cranking out gears and spacers. So I hope to have a video out in the next couple of weeks here where I do the first full mechanical assembly.

@DoRC 25 дней назад

Oil galleries not galleys :-)

@IndeterminateDesign 25 дней назад

My whole life I’ve been mispronouncing that. 😂

@DoRC 25 дней назад

@@IndeterminateDesign It's a pretty common thing.

@carminedecarlo9228 2 года назад

questa tipologia non è assolutamente Seamless!!!...il Seamless ha l'albero secondario cavo e al suo interno c'è un meccanismo particolare....io ho il cambio Renault F1 del 2010 Seamless completo e funzionante!!!

@IndeterminateDesign 2 года назад

I'd love any info on that gearbox you can give me on the 2010 Renault gearbox. From all the information I've received none of the F1 gearboxes that have been used in races have the selectable 1 or 2 way clutch mechanisms like this. There is an oil distribution tube down the middle of the shafts though. All of the gearboxes from the Xtrac P1044 onwards have been called "seamless" as the shift barrels can overlap the selection of the gears and the torque drop is less than a few milliseconds.