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Fairies, Witches, and Changelings - Diane Purkiss | Maiden Mother Matriarch 55 

Maiden Mother Matriarch with Louise Perry
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My guest today is Diane Purkiss, Professor of English Literature at the University of Oxford and author of many books, including 'Fairies and Fairy Stories', 'The Witch in History', and 'English Food: A People's History.'
We spoke about witches and fairies in British folklore, and in particular why these stories are so often associated with childbirth, children, and motherhood. We also spoke about the psychological and practical functions of these stories, and why they are so culturally sticky.
02:57 What is a fairy?
06:06 Are fairies ancient Britons?
08:40 Connection between fairy stories and Pagan stories
11:32 How does the church respond?
13:22 Who believes in fairies and ghosts?
16:02 How enchanted stories can help us manage human feelings
18:10 Child demons
24:02 Changelings, autism and motherhood
30:25 Can fairy stories slot in with religion?
32:13 Witch trials
36:12 Why is fairyland matriarchal?
42:46 What is the relationship between a witch and a fairy?
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29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 69   
@rebeccapenders5050
@rebeccapenders5050 7 месяцев назад
This was eminently enjoyable! Thanks for the book recommendation (the dictionary of fairies). 🧚‍♀️💜
@Adam-xq3mk
@Adam-xq3mk 7 месяцев назад
Let me know if you find a copy. I just checked and it was £345…
@RedArtistx
@RedArtistx 7 месяцев назад
One of the most interesting but sad explanations for changelings for me was childhood diabetes and similar illnesses. A previously healthy child would change in appearance, skin colour a little, maybe a little of its facial features would seem different, and the child would eventually waste away, getting thinner & thinner no matter how much food it ate. Back then, there wouldn't have been a clear explanation or cure as to why the child was wasting away like that.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
That is a very interesting theory. It also fits in with some accounts of witchcraft I've read. Witches were actually horrible women in almost every case I've read. They were standover merchants playing on peoples fears to get resources and power. One case I've read involved a boy who sickened as you describe, and a "witch" persuaded the parents that if they didn't pay her money regularly their son would die. This sums up most cases I've read. I have not quite finished the video, but Diane does not seem to understand how Mediaeval babies were raised. You mention children which is plausible. But she speaks of troublesome babies. I find it hard to believe they existed in this period. Babies were strapped to a flat board firmly with swaddling bands. The board was then hung vertically on a wall. This was done for two reasons. One was to ensure the baby remained straight and couldn't become deformed. The other was to protect the baby from dogs, pigs, rats, etc that might eat the baby if it was not kept out of reach. Wealthy families could end the practice earlier as they had access earlier to additional rooms. But in peasant households I've read of it still occurring into the 1500s in England. In Eastern Europe it survived into the early twentieth century. And doctors and scientists examined the babies with modern equipment. They had very low heartbeats and their hearts stopped frequently. They could only take occasional shallow breaths. They were incapable of crying whilst in the vertical position. In addition, whilst in the earlier Middle Ages when the wealthy still did this the baby was ussually washed and the swaddling bands changed every 24 hrs. In poorer houses it was weeks. And ofcourse it was the mother who had to hold this stinky board to her breast several times a day. I think this is the reason mothers could not bond with babies. During the twentieth century historians believed parents did not bond with their children until they were toddlers, for this reason. At about 18 months the baby, if it survived, was unswaddled and taught to walk. It wasn't instinctive to them like babies today. So parents went a long time, unattached and unknowing what creature was living on their wall. I offer this as an alternative explanation.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
I replied and it disappeared. That's an interesting point you've made.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
I also think it was difficult for babies swaddled in the Mediaeval way to survive. Especially peasant babies. And being swaddled to a board would have made it harder for parents to bond with the baby. Swaddled babies were very quiet. Later as a toddler the baby was unswaddled and taught to walk. So it took over a year for a baby to show it's actual personality.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
Your description of diabetic children reminds me of one of many accounts of witches I have read. Witches were unpleasant people often standover merchants profiting from peoples fears. One case was parents whose child was suffering symptoms you describe. It can't have been diabetes because the child did survive. But for years a witch and her daughter demanded resources from the parents, saying the child would die if they did not.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
My comment on witches seems to be the problem LoL. Disappeared again.
@abigaile1723
@abigaile1723 7 месяцев назад
So fascinating! I wish it could have gone on for hours. What’s going on with this lady’s accent? Is she just extremely posh?
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
In Australia, my year eight teacher sounded just like her. Looked like her too.
@staninjapan07
@staninjapan07 7 месяцев назад
Both fascinating and infuriating at the same time. As a caveat, I am not an expert (or even well read person) on this subject, and at times I thought the guest speaker as very enlightening, and at times I thought she was just talking twaddle. I could not make out whether she herself took any of this seriously either academically or personally. I make no assertions about the content, though I have heard numerous accounts of long, long ago, when the "real" world we believe ourselves to be in and the "other place" we sometimes believe ourselves to inhabit were less strictly divided (as we saw it) than they are now. Anyway, thanks, this was a very engaging "bath listen." Thanks from a freshly bathed listener far away from the UK.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
I'm not an expert on folklore either. But I have read a lot of history, which she seems to have little understanding. For example throughout the Middle Ages babies were swaddled to a board. The babies couldn't move and had difficulty crying. So I don't know who these troublesome babies were.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
I don't know much about folklore but I do understand history which she doesn't seem to.
@staninjapan07
@staninjapan07 7 месяцев назад
@@grannyannie2948 I simply could not comment on that part, and as I say I am not even well-read (let alone expert) on this, but I was struck by some coincidences/common points regarding fairies (faeries?) and their role in spiritual life / old lore. I make no assertions regarding the following, but a lot of believers in the/an afterlife, in Gods, and even in "alien" presence on earth touch upon fairies and the like. As you have read up on this, you'll know more than I do.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
@@staninjapan07 No I haven't read much about folklore. I personally don't believe in aliens. But I do know something of the history of the time, and a good deal about witches in the 1600s. We have too many eggs at the moment, so this morning I was making egg custard. And it made me think of this video. When I put the eggshells in the bin I thought of a book I'd read as a little girl about fairies. It warned you should crush egg shells completely, if not fairies would steal them to use for boats. It struck me as practical as well because crushed eggshells would compost more quickly. I recently rewatched the series Tuder Farm. And it did have an expert in folklore involved. Once a year the entire village walked their boundaries. At landscapes associated with a boundary little boys were held upside down, spanked, and then rewarded with cake. Again, a practical way of ensuring the younger generation knew the boundary. So I'm concluding much of it may have been practical, in the same way that Christianity was a practical way of maintaining a functional society.
@staninjapan07
@staninjapan07 7 месяцев назад
@@grannyannie2948I saw that TV program on RU-vid. I think the guy's name is Ronald Hutton, or something similar.
@marccas10
@marccas10 7 месяцев назад
There is a fantastic video on RU-vid that links the Fairy phenomena with the UFO phenomena. Basically it says that there is some kind of interdimensional inteligence that interacts with humans, but can make the human perceive what they want them to see. This "inteligence" is aware of our culture and technology and fits its appearance to the cultural mysticism of its time. It is my belief that people in the ancient world "really did" see fairies, just a 10s of thousands of UFO sightings have been witnessed. The question is "what is it" and "what does it want"?
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
Or they are demons.
@livin2themusick
@livin2themusick 7 месяцев назад
🌹🌹💕
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
I don't think its true that ghosts only became a thing post enlightenment, let alone the Victorian Age. Shakespeare obviously mentioned them in his plays. And Samuel Pepys describes a ghostly encounter with a ghost in an old inn. The man who shared his bedroom also saw it.
@RCCarDude
@RCCarDude 7 месяцев назад
Ghosts are mentioned in Pliny the Younger's letters and he was a Roman in the 1st century AD.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
@@RCCarDude Great point. I'd forgotten about that.
@racheljames7
@racheljames7 7 месяцев назад
Ghosts are in the Bible even. Saul asks a necromancer, even though it was illegal, to summon a ghost he needed to speak to and he saw it.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
@@racheljames7 Exactly. This woman is well immersed in folklore but divorced from history. I Will continue but it will probably disappear.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
@@racheljames7 For example the babies of the Middle Ages were strapped tightly to a flat board. And in all but the richest families suspended vertically. In the eighteen nineties these babies were scientifically tested. They had low heart beats and could only take tiny shallow breaths. This meant they could not really cry or complain. So where are all these "troublesome babies" hung on walls?
@gabrielsyme4180
@gabrielsyme4180 7 месяцев назад
I was reading the Code of Hammurabi a couple months ago (written in 2,000 BC) and was astonished when I saw the very FIRST sentence was about determining if someone is a witch by ordeal of water (dunking). 🧙‍♀️ 💦
@jamieyoung9392
@jamieyoung9392 7 месяцев назад
Now interview Professor Ron Hutton :-) Two recent Faerie Queens pop up in Tolkien, as Galadriel and in 'Smith of Wooten Major'. Neither is predatory, although Galadriel is clearly 'perilous'. Excellent stuff - thank you for posting.
@christiericardo3101
@christiericardo3101 6 месяцев назад
Also try Francis Young's Twilight of the Godlings. He goes through how it's not as simple as pagan trappings surviving in fairy stories. Great interview!
@shkodranmaksutaj8371
@shkodranmaksutaj8371 7 месяцев назад
Fairies and witches hate each other witches dislike Fairies
@sit-insforsithis1568
@sit-insforsithis1568 Месяц назад
Fairies love witches tho
@gabbygutierrez1885
@gabbygutierrez1885 7 месяцев назад
This discussion made me appreciate the incarnation.
@kaurikallio4668
@kaurikallio4668 19 дней назад
I am an autist but I also identify as a extraterrestial spirit...
@sunnyday6465
@sunnyday6465 7 месяцев назад
Facinating. I feel sorry for those poor 'changling' children, they most have been in a lot of pain, maybe damaged nervous systems or something. Feel sorry for the moms too.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
Whilst this woman might be an expert on the literature, she's not an expert on how babies were actually raised in this period. In the early Middle Ages both the rich and poor swaddled their babies. The baby was firmly strapped to a flat board with bandages called swaddling bands. The board was then hung vertically high on a wall. This was done for two reasons. It was because the parents believed if this was not done the baby would become crooked and deformed. The other more important reason was that in cottages and even the living spaces of the wealthy, there were dogs, cats, rats and even pigs wandering around which could literally bite or even eat a baby, suspending the baby out of reach made sense. The swaddling bands were changed as often as the family could afford. The practice died out first in wealthy homes first. As they were first to have access to alternative rooms in which to keep a baby safe. Another byproduct of swaddling is the mother could not cuddle her baby, even whilst breastfeeding. People did not get emotionally attached to their children until they were a couple of years old. In peasant households the practice continued into the 1400s, perhaps beyond in some regions. In Russia it continued into the early twentieth century. Doctors and scientists examined the babies. The poor little things are virtually crucified. Most had great difficulty crying, or making noises. They would frequently stop breathing or their hearts would stop beating unless the child was put into a horizontal position and rubbed back to life. So a mother had to be extremely vigilant just to keep the baby alive.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
PS Parents literally didn't know what kind of child they had living on the wall. Until the baby reached toddler age. Got unswaddled and taught to walk.
@thelucidrecluse4190
@thelucidrecluse4190 7 месяцев назад
@13:47 Louise almost goes full Passport to Magonia on us. 😂
@Jules-Is-a-Guy
@Jules-Is-a-Guy 7 месяцев назад
LOTR and mythology stuff was my absolute favorite when I was a kid, and I was a pretty nerdy teenager too. I feel like these LA girls into crystals and stuff, are into sort of the same things I liked as a 12 yr old, is this the adult female version of being a boy-nerd?
@joane24
@joane24 7 месяцев назад
However, Tolkien was also a devout Catholic and the LOTR is one big Christian parable. So I wouldn't put him on the same shelf as crystals and whatnot.
@sadiemakesmesmile
@sadiemakesmesmile 7 месяцев назад
Haha yes add in tarot is also ancient and mythical
@LadyOfShaIott
@LadyOfShaIott 7 месяцев назад
Really interesting discussion especially the point about the frustration modern society can have with children - I’ve heard parents frequently opine on their disappointment in their children not matching up to society’s expectations…
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
I don't think it's parents disappointed that they're children are not up to societal expectations, as these have never been so low. It's children not living up to parents expectations.
@LadyOfShaIott
@LadyOfShaIott 7 месяцев назад
@@grannyannie2948 Yes indeed. There is a dreadful amount of ‘one upman’ship in suburban, middle-class Australia as you know - parents comparing their children’s achievements (or lack of) with other children’s. The high level of private tutoring here (I tutor children myself) reflects the pressure many parents feel to push their children to succeed. Lovely to see you again btw 😊
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
​@@LadyOfShaIottFortunately I don't live in the suburbs anymore. Rurally it's a bit better. But even my own daughter is acting this way lately. She wants my eldest grandson to become a paleontologist. Which would mean him living in the UK or the US, as it's not offered in Australia. I know my grandson he would be miserable. Yes he loves dinosaurs, and he would be capable of the work. He loves his little school with ten to twelve kids per class. And he loves our little town. He's high functioning autistic, with a high IQ but does not cope well with change. I can't see why he can't just attend the local university where he can commute by car or bus, and gain the qualifications to work in Australian museums. Also a job he would enjoy. But he's not 12 yet, thank God. Good to hear from you too.
@sarahrobertson634
@sarahrobertson634 7 месяцев назад
I got rid of society and kept my children
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
@@sarahrobertson634 Good Work.
@charliedontsurf334
@charliedontsurf334 7 месяцев назад
I can see why the Church saw fairies as demonic. Interesting. It is sad that many of these people were killed.
@Jules-Is-a-Guy
@Jules-Is-a-Guy 7 месяцев назад
Fav cult film, perhaps 'occult film' lol, The Ninth Gate.
@RedArtistx
@RedArtistx 7 месяцев назад
36:22 Diane seem to be completely unaware of Gwyn ap Nudd - the King of the Tylwyth Teg (literally 'Fair Folk' or the fairies in Wales), who ruled over Annwn, the Otherworld, so yes, there was a male ruler. He might have initially been a deity or god who was later diminutised perhaps. This lack of awareness leads me to think that her knowledge is very anglo-centric.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
She also seems unaware of the way babies were actually treated in the Middle Ages. They were swaddled to a swaddling board and barely capable of crying. Let alone being a troublesome baby. The swaddling board meant mothers couldn't cuddle their babies, even while breastfeeding. Which was probably the real problem these mothers didn't bond with their babies.
@Adam-xq3mk
@Adam-xq3mk 7 месяцев назад
Enjoyed that. Thank you
@KeepingTheIronThroneWarm
@KeepingTheIronThroneWarm 7 месяцев назад
I am at a loss. What's next, proving that moles and groundhogs are actually leprechauns?
@thegreatermysteries4134
@thegreatermysteries4134 6 месяцев назад
Pre-monotheist concepts will always persist in monotheistic societies for 2 related reasons. 1) Because so-called 'monotheistic' religions are actually technically Henotheistic, and therefore simply syncretisms of prior polytheistic philosophies/religious doctrines, and 2) those polytheistic religious systems are necessarily more complex and much more deeply rooted in the human psychological experience, and therefore speak to many individuals in ways that monotheistic doctrines aren't able to account for.
@AlexAndreou2007
@AlexAndreou2007 6 месяцев назад
I have a film script based on the Magus book by John Fowles would you like to review it?
@charlesbrown1365
@charlesbrown1365 7 месяцев назад
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphoses
@mustno3
@mustno3 7 месяцев назад
Really?! .. Fairies now?! .. Really?!
@ldevon2318
@ldevon2318 7 месяцев назад
Literature. Tradition. Fiction. Why would anyone delve into any of that!? All soooo booorrriiingg right!? !?
@KeepingTheIronThroneWarm
@KeepingTheIronThroneWarm 7 месяцев назад
@@ldevon2318 Wait a sec. Lit, trad, fiction, you say... But this woman is pushing all this nonsense as real. She doesn't say stories, she says "accounts."
@ldevon2318
@ldevon2318 7 месяцев назад
@@KeepingTheIronThroneWarmdon’t listen to it then. If you’re not interested. Think your thoughts and move on without leaving a comment. Really!? Really!?
@KeepingTheIronThroneWarm
@KeepingTheIronThroneWarm 7 месяцев назад
@@ldevon2318 Please excuse me for sounding argumentative, though I think you'll get the gist. One doesn't know not to listen until after one has listened. At best, one can cut it short. Which I did.
@grannyannie2948
@grannyannie2948 7 месяцев назад
She might know the literature but she has zero knowledge about how babies were actually treated in the Middle Ages. So her work has little historical basis. Just fairy tales.
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