The first one is screaming PARTSCASTER everywhere! lol. Squier saddles, modern style string tree but has vintage tuners, 3-tone sunburst with 22-fret maple fingerboard??? Of course no serial number. Ripped logo and Ebay pickguard.
I could see somebody putting a Squier logo on a Fender to keep the ex-wife from trying to swindle their $4000 guitar in the divorce. If she and her attorney think it's a $150 Squier Bullet, they won't want it! 🤷♂️🤣
Something else that looks suspect is the edge of the headstock. Squires generally have a more rounded edge than Fender Mexico/USA. The edges of the headstock are sharper on non squire. That said looks like a nice guitar!
The first letter is an L when Fender reordered neck plates a batch came in error with an L for the first digit those appear on models throughout 64 and 65 - The early 64s have the Spaghetti Logo mid year through most of 65 has the transition logo - Early 64s will have clay dots then later pearl on the rosewood neck guitars - one thing to look for are the markers they will be clay i believe on the maple necks as well - when you tear into the guitar there will dates and pencil markers on the pickups - I own a 64 L series that i bought in 1986 for $75 which was a deal back then - had a back bow in the neck and some routing on the horn - (someone tried to give it an Ibanez look) still had all the original guts - completely restored and refretted back in 86 - the headstock will also be smaller no truss rods at the top or skunk stripes - stratocaster will be spelled out small on the transition and with roughly 7 patent numbers at the bottom of the decal as well
Also- fender put their decals under the lacquer finish. If the finish cracked, the logo would likely not crack, as it’s underneath. It def would not crack that bad. This looks like it was placed above the laquer.
The second black guitar is a 50's reissue probably Mexican that's why there is a walnut plug in the head stock it still is adjusted at the heel of the neck and a 8 hole pick guard, your analogy of the 12 fret dot's is not always correct on 50's guitars the dots were wider so compare it to a 50s guitar not a 60's guitar , so it could be the neck plate was replaced for what reason I don't know because it's definitely a 50's reissue STrat.
on the 64 the F dont fall under the string tree like a vintage its in the middle of the logo the body could be 64 have to take it apart to find out though Pots, wire, date code in neck pocket Etc.
This go's to show just how GOOD some Fake Fender guitars are made these days. With all the forensic investigations, like in your video, going on to find one. If a fake is such a bad thing, you would think that they would sound like crap when you play one, ...But they don't and some times they can actually sound way better than an expensive, real-deal, depending on how they are set up and your playing ability !!
@@kennisrussell a friend of mine used to make fantastic counterfeit fender telecaster and strats. Even down to getting decals made with legitimate serial numbers from genuine guitars. He made 2-3 a year only for customers and I'd even say fender would think its a real fender. He doesn't do it anymore due to work related injuries but he did make fantastic guitars. ( sometimes they actually cost more than factory guitars)
@@stu-j pretty difficult to fake the date stamps on the pots. If he could produce pots with vintage dates, that's all he'd have to do to make a handsome living online.
@filthyterrible it's easy enough to find old pots from vintage electronics or radios that used the same style pots. Cts didn't just make them for guitars they went Into a load of applications!
That's exactly what he means. People fake expensive guitars to catch the buyers who aren't informed such as beginners, people buying a gift for someone, etc. People buy cars for others too in the same manner. I've seen stories of wives buying their husband a collector car as a gift to surprise them and not knowing anything about cars get deceived. So while more unlikely with cars, it's still possible.
Well if it's a Fender Custom Shop, that's impersonating an actual vintage 196O's Strat, and the price is $600, then the fakery is irrelevant. Likewise if it's a Squier vintage modified that's been altered to look like a vintage guitar that's selling for $300, again, irrelevant.
the dots analogy is not a good source, my Vintera 60's neck has Mexico SN, has truss road at the neck and the dots are under the A and B strings, also has 8.5mm holes which is not standard to Fender.
Dot spacing varied in 1965. And nope, that's standard. The diameter of the mounting holes on the headstock for a vintage style tuner is 11/32" (8.7mm), and the machines themselves have a .249" diameter string post. The mounting hole on the headstock for the Fender die-cast tuning machines is 13/32" (10mm) with a .236 diameter string post. The modern tuning machines are obviously larger in diameter than the vintage tuners. So the 8.5 mm holes are vintage accurate for a 60's Fender - 11/32" or 8.5mm/8.8mm would be standard for the 1960's. Now if you buy vintage-style tuners, they give you metal ferrels to compensate for larger modern tuner holes that take the hole from 10mm to 8.7mm.
To me, that looks like a Squire contemporary (or maybe it's called 'modern') strat with an MIM neck put on it. Or maybe a might mite neck, maybe that's why there's no serial number. But those Squires have the same electronics configuration.
My fake les paul sounds great with Gibbo upgrades on hardware and electronics....sustains for ever.......electric guitars were just a log with a pickup and strings.....acoustics you can really tell the difference.....
Wasn't really a very good fake of the 64 strat. It's one thing to build a copy for yourself because you can't afford the real 1963-64 but to try pass it as a real one is so wrong in so many ways. The fret markers on a 63-64 should be white clay dots. The trim block should be a full size block the skinny blocks are import Mexican and American fender both have the full block
What if you buy an aftermarket neck to replace the neck on a squier strat and put a squier logo on the new neck. Is it a fake squier? Or you could do the same with fender.
So in 1964 they only made maple cap necks I guess? I knew they started with the slab rosewood, but I didn't know they stopped making maple boards altogether.
When you did the close up of the front of the head stock, on the second guitar, there seems like a flaw in the finish (or chip?) under the bushing of the tuner on the D string. Perhaps from enlarging the holes on a Squire (or similar) neck to accommodate the Kluson tuners?
I own a 84 L series transition logo strat - bought it in 1986 The finish is wrong on the neck - they have a more yellow or golden tint - brownish as it ages and exposure to smokey bars, sunlight playing etc. The early 64s have the Spaghetti Logo and later ones have the transition log a little more gold and black also multiple pat pend on the headstock - the back plates start with an L - fender ran out of plates and a lot of 64 and 65s have L series plates on the back - also the pick guard is wrong - the tuners look wrong - should be kluson deluxe - mines a rosewood - perloid dots with clay markers on the top - I'd guess the maple would have clay markers as well.
If you can make a super accurate counterfeits that are impossible to detect, then it's super valuable. That's essentially what the Fender Custom Shop does, they make faithful replicas of vintage instruments and charge thousands for them. Murphy Labs at Gibson as well.
So the second Black one is a real Fender 50's reissue either Japan or Mexican that someone has replaced the neck plate with a reproduction of a 60's neck plate no doubt, they were trying to pass it off as a 60s strat ! ?
Not all 60's but certainly a 64 strat would be rosewood. ( A veneer which you can recognize from looking at the head stock - fretboard makes a crescent that dips away from the end of the head stock. Not a straight line and not a crescent that pushes out toward the head stock)
It was me who send Kennis the pictures of the black strat. And what made me unsure if it was real or not was the tremolo block, it looks to "skinny" to me, like the ones you find in squiers.
@@kennisrussell It was in the Danish version of craigslist called dba.dk and I asked the seller about the guitar and he said that I could get it for 3800 dkr. ( That's $600)
The decal on the first is totally the ones you find off the net. An American and Mexican guitar from the past 20 years or so would have a completely different decal. I think the American ones are silver and wouldn't have the patent numbers or "synchronized tremolo" on it. The Mexican guitars had different type of transition logos that had the serial number under it until about 10 to 15 years ago and changed to the black transition logo. The Mexican Player series went back to gold spaghetti logo but no patent numbers or anything under it. Don't mean to digress to much, but I was looking at lefty guitars and some guy was selling a 2005 mexican strat modded to look like David Gilmours guitar and wanted 2000 for it. Fucking ridiculous.
I don't think it could be. They were only making rosewood boards. In 1964, pretty sure the only maple necks were maple caps. In the early 60's they' switched to flat maple necks with big hunks of radiused rosewood. In 1963, they made the rosewood more of a veneer and started radiusing the maple. If you see a '64 or a '65 with a maple neck, it's rare and it's also a maple cap - a maple fretboard that's been glued to a maple neck with no skunk stripe. Pretty sure.
Should of put it on a work bench and taken the neck and pick guard off or up, usually there are marks even on Mexican made fenders,can't believe I sat through this whole episode just because I like your Chan, but you have done some upgrades on other episodes and should know about what to look for bro, come on man,but I will say you have taught some people how to do research, and that is of upmost importance in the guitar world so thanks for this content.
Hey kennis I have been learning a lot about guitars with you since one year ago, about 64 strat I really love those L series and I have been researching on that model for the same time that I have been watching your videos and there are several details that make that Fender not real, first there is the Fender decal on that model It included the patent number under the logo (this one doesn't have it), second on the saddels is stamp fender pat. pend (as under the countour body decal), it doesn't show it, Also most Fenders from that era that I find on the net have Rosewood on the neck, not to mention that the painting looks very new for a 64 model, I dunno, I'm just a newbie in the topic you can correct me and I will learn more with that!
Another thing will be clay markers - some 64s have clay dots others pearl but all have clay inlayed markers - headstocks are small and will have kluson deluxe tuners - the bodies are a little smaller and very light compared with 70s guitars
Yo Kennis! Remember I asked you about which tuners you bought from musiclily? Well I ended up getting the standard locking tuners instead of the pro version. They arrived today and I can say without a doubt that they are not worth spending the money on. I installed them and went to "lock" the first string and the stupid thing is stripped. It won't tighten down on the string. Tried the 2nd one and same thing. It tightened a little, then stripped and wouldn't tighten. It gets to a point and instead of getting tight, it keeps spinning. They're garbage. I'm guessing you didn't have this issue with the pro version? I may try those once these are returned. Thanks!
@@kennisrussell yea they're definitely going back. Looks like I'm going to end up swapping out 2 sets of crappy tuners for one set of good ones. I'll probably end up getting the Fender branded locking tuners. It's just $10 on top of what I've already spent and I only really need one set for now. So that'll likely be what happens.
@@kennisrussell hi, thanks for the reply, I normally buy off Facebook marketplace, gumtree and other selling sites, I'm in the UK. Been playing about a Yr now, hoping to buy a USA Fender next Yr. So this was really helpful to me thanks a lot
True, but a serial number nails down the guitar to a particular year. Then it can be compared directly. For example, they have changed the logo, truss rods, neck plates, tremolos, tuners, over the years. Even the fakes with real serial numbers often don’t get the details right for the year.
@@kennisrussellAlso looking for dates on the neck heel, inside body cavities and dates on pots give a general idea of what you have. Obviously if there's no markings and Alpha pots, it's most likely import.
It's a pretty safe way to verify it if the serial number is in the waterslide decal and you're paying $600 for it. I mean, who goes to that much effort to fake a Fender only to sell it for the price of a Vintage modified.
That one definitely has a neck plate from a '64 reissue or other AVRI series Fender. They have the same serial on the neck plate that makes it appear to be from '64. TBH, I feel like I've seen that, serial # before.
You sure about that? The reissues I've seen don't replicate vintage serial numbers. Vintage Reissues usually have a “V”-prefix serial number. Or "JV" in the case of Japanese reissues.
The price is $600 right? Did I read that right? Nobody is thinking it's an actual 63'/64' are they? The L on the neck plate serial tells you it's pretending to be Pre-CBS. Which that obviously isn't. But that just tells you the neck plate is fake. Might be an MIJ. in which case it's a good deal. Not that it matters, but the problem with the dot spacing tutorial is that spacing of the 12th position dot markers changed during the 1963 model year. You can find narrow or wide spacing on a '63. Dot spacing varies. If you're discussing vintage, as opposed to reissues, then dots were spaced at 1" before 1964 and .850" after 1964. The side dot size on the side of the neck varies too. And if you're ordering a Warmoth neck, pretty sure you can specify the dot-spacing. Maybe it's a 80's MIJ Squier with a fake neckplate? If so, the price is good. But they didn't show enough of the headstock in the pic. If they switched out the pots to vintage pots, then $600 is actually a steal. At a point, if a counterfeit gets good enough, it starts to become valuable. It's instantaneously worth money if it has an actual vintage neck plate and pots.
