Excel sheet: www.dropbox.co... Performante Lap: • Lamborghini Huracán Pe... 918 Lap: • 918 Spyder at the Nord... This video is not monetized. More info: www.facebook.c... www.bridgetogan... Thank you for watching!
Misha Charoudin You guys just too afraid if the Lamborghini really beat the 918. You guys think that Lamborghini is just for showing off, not for racing. Even though both of them are on the same group (Volkswagen), you guys just can't accept it just because it's a Lamborghini, not a Porsche or a Ferrari or a McLaren or anything else. Once more, in speed traps, if the number of the speed is slower, it means it goes quicker around the track. The 918 also much heavier than the Performante. If you want to go quicker, doesn't mean that you always need a massive power to the engine. Lightness, agility, and aerodynamics could also help. Because the Performante is smaller than the 918, it is more agile than the 918. If it's very light, you could brake so late. Because it's light, so you can push so hard. You could use all your power without afraid of crash into the wall. The main point, the one which is more flexible, is gonna win the game. The 918 just have too much power to be used to maximise it's potential. Remember, the Nurburgring have so many corners. If it's have many straight lines, it would definitely win.
Misha Charoudin You really believe Glickenhaus? Of course, he also want to to beat that Porsche record by creating his own supercar, SGC003 blah blah blah I don't know. Whatever, this is the first time he created a road legal supercar. and you just believe him and don't believe the Lamborghini? The car brand that are on the same group with the Porsche and you don't believe it? For God's sake!!! Open your eyes..
Is it a coincidence that only people with Lambos on their avatars (fanbois) calling me a Porsche fanboi or claiming my data is false, but without any counterargument?
Misha Charoudin Okay, then I will try again... Please just compare (or look my video) of the AMG GTR and Performante part of the Döttinger Höhe. Both cars have all the time similar indicated speeds and also are, when one compares the time taken from gantry to bridge, as fast as the other one video wise. And because in the video of the AMG GTR, the monitor in the cockpit shows the time speed etc, that video can't, at least not with some major project, be forwarded. And it would be more than a coincidence if both vids would have been forwarded at the excat same rate... I believe the car itself wasnt running trofeo r (my onboards are sometimes with these tires and they squeal much more than the ones in the performante) et cetera, but your theory somehow cant be right then?!
Why are you so upset about it then? I'm not fanboying, but stating info I have obtained from the people who were there to see it. You are entiteled to believe in whatever you want, after all it is your personal opinion on the lap.
Stripped interior, no passanger seat, no sound isolation, semi slick. No aircondition, no multimedia, maybe boosted power slightly. And new road legal semi slick tropheo R tires.
nissan admitted that the gt-r lap time was done with a special Nismo N edition, that you can get putting 100k on top of a nismo and making it not road legal..
I did the exact same thing, went and opened the 918 video side by side before I've seen half of the Lambo video. It felt suspicious because I know the Porsche was considerably faster in a straight line and I remembered it went faster through specific corners than the Lambo. BUT, and it's a big BUT, while Porsche has higher peak speeds during cornering and during straights, the Lambo starts to accelerate OUT OF CORNERS sooner, and brakes LATER than the Porsche. YOu can see that if you watch them side by side, and see that out of pretty much every corner, if you match the footage so that cars are at the apex at the same exact moment, and then you play them, the Lambo starts to accelerate out of MOST corners sooner than the Porsche, and it has a considerably higher corner exit speeds i n a lot of corners. So much so that the Porsche doesn't make up that difference by having higher speeds at the end of the straights. Basically, think of it like a 1/4 drag race, if one car jumps the start by 1 second and starts accelerating 1 second sooner, the other car won't make up that difference in 100, 200 or 300 meters, even if it's considerably faster. On top of that, because the Porsche has higher speed on straights, and doesn't stop as well as the Lambo, it brakes MUCH sooner than the Lambo, goes less deep into corners, etc. But it's still fishy to me. I also thought that Lambo might have sped up the video. Which is super easy to do, if you speed up a video by 2 or 3%, but keep the timer accurate, and compensate for the sound pitch change with some audio editing software, NOBODY, NO FUCKING BODY will notice it, and on a 7 minute long footage, you will cut off 12 seconds by doing that.
derbigpr500 proper explaination m8 he also made memtion of a few aero bits, tires etc not making up for that 30sec diff between the standard car and the perform but if you look at m4 vs m4 gts its proof that u can shave off 30 seconds with some tweeks
The M4 GTS has meth = much more consistent power delivery. That alone is worth half. Plus is that 30-second shave from the m4 or the m4 competition package? If it is from the later, the chances of being fake are HIGH AF. If it is the difference between GTS and normal M4, not that far-fetched. The thing with Lamborghini is, the Huracan GT3 isn't that great and tech usually comes from there. In the end, all of this is irrelevant, the only thing that counts is how achievable it is for someone to make a sub 7:30 BTG lap consistently and if it's fun. A great example is the Giulia, hard to believe, but the fucking car was about to blow up I wonder how the fuck didn't a wheel came off during the lap, but it was driven to the freaking limit and by doing so, it was faster than a 991 gt3, but in reality, I would struggle to see Giulia, passing 991 GT3's on the Nurburgring when everything equal regarding driver.
Some say that part of the "mystery" why the 918 starts to fall behind after 20 odd kilometers is due to the batteries starting to deplete faster than they regenerate leaving the 918 as a 600hp car weighing 300kg more than the Lambo. That would of course explain some of it but i think the bespoke PZeros account for a lot of it aswell, there's no drama, the car is solid as a rock trough the whole lap. I do have to say though that it isn't universally accepted that a Lambo could beat Porsches flagship around the ring, even if the lap is completly legit it won't compute for Porsche fans and they will find things to discredit.
Sunedosa The easiest way to settle all of these things will be to completely remove manufacturers from doing official Nürnberg ring times in the first place. Third-party, unaffiliated driver, verified stock car. There is too much incentive to cheat, and there's no other real way to make sure manufacturers are telling the truth.
EDIT: To prove Lamborghini did not cheat by speeding up the clip I compared the Lamborghini, Camaro who did their lap 19 days later and the Porsche who lapped 3 years earlier. The following is using the same reference points from the video at about 6 minutes. If you care for the calculations: (rounding to .0 make reading easier) CAMARO: (Lapped 19 days after the Huracán) The ZL1 went from 225.3-278.4 kph in ~12.2 s, which comes out to be ~1.2 m/s^2. based off of that I can see that the ZL1 traveled ~851.4 m LAMBORGHINI: The Huracán went from 244-290 kph in about ~11.4 s, which comes out to be ~1.1 m/s^2. based of that the Huracán traveled ~847.7 m (a car length difference from the ZL1) PORSCHE: (Lapped 3 years ago) The 918 went from 255-292 kph in 12.1 s, which comes out to be 0.8 m/s^2. Again, based off that the 918 traveled ~919.3 m (an entire 16-18 CAR LENGTHS MORE than the Huracán AND the ZL1.) From this you can see that the Lamborghini and the Camaro traveled the same distance indicating the the sign he used has moved sometime after the Porsche lapped. There is my argument +Misha Charoudin I would like to see what you have to say. -------------------------------------------------- At about 6 minutes when you are talking about how the Huracán traveling 'faster at a lower speed' you failed to notice how much faster the car is ACCELERATING compared to the 918. The Huracán gained 9 KPH from the 2 reference points you chose compared to the 918. Which you can obviously see the Huracán is accelerating faster than the 918. Just like how a car can run a faster quarter mile at a lower speed than most cars (like Tesla). (This paragraph is full of shit) And as for the roll cage, adding weight and the center of gravity getting higher won't help the lap time. The Aventador SV lapped with one too. Way to go for calling something fake, putting no math into to it and not proving anything and making people believe you. Sounds like someone is more butthurt that Porsche got beat rather than actually proving Lamborghini faked it. What a joke.
nivracer watch the last Minute of this Video and then read your comment again. you will clearly See that the lambo is NOT faster accelerating then the 918!
SuMoMiKe2F4u Good to see you failed basic math in elementary school. Both cars when the same distance in the comparison (obviously). The 919 went from 255-292. The 918 gained 37kph in the comparison. The Huracán went from 244-290. The Huracán gained 46kph. Please explain to me how the Huracán is accelerating slower than the 918 when it gained 9kph MORE than the 918 in the same distance.
I checked that as well, that's the first thing I did, seeing that Lambo accelerated better out of corners and on straights, but it's not case on the straight line, it doesn't explain it. I know what you mean, because I thought the same thing. Just because Porsche had a higher initial speed and final speed on that segment, doesn't mean that the Lambo would not gain advantage with better acceleration, had the difference in rate of acceleration been big enough. The problem is, it still doesn't compute at the end. If you have car A that does 244 km/h at a reference point 1 and 290 km/h at reference point 2, and a car that does 255 km/h at reference point 1 and 292 at reference point 2, it clearly means that car A, Lambo, was accelerating at a higher rate, because it gained speed, that is obvious. HOWEVER, despite accelerating better, it still didn't catch up to Porsche's speed, and it still had a lower speed at any given point during that segment of the track, assuming that their accelerations are fairly linear, which they are if you go and watch videos separately and measure how much time it takes to accelerate by 5 km/h steps. Meaning, how much time does it take for Lambo to go from 244 to 249, compared to Porsches 255 to 260, and so on. As you'll find, Lambo's acceleration rate is better, consistently than Porsches, but at ANY GIVEN MOMENT, Porsche STILL HAS A HIGHER SPEED, so STILL the Porsche should have gained time over the Lambo, because at any given moment it should be pulling away from the Lambo. In simple terms, accelerating at a higher rate doesn't mean you're gaining time UNLESS you're traveling at a velocity higher than the other car at any given moment. Lambo merely made up for the speed difference by accelerating better, but it didn't actually exceed Porsche's speed at any point. The only way this theory would work is if the Lambo was accelerating at a MUCH HIGHER rate than the Porsche from let's say 244 to 270 km/h, and then slowed down drastically and hit the 290 speed and couldn't go further. If you're into it, go ahead and calculate for yourself just how different the rate of acceleration should have been. Impossible, to put it simply. And again, looking at the footage itself shows you that the rate of acceleration was NOT anywhere different enough to Lambo to MAINTAIN the difference in time, let alone gain time over the Porsche.
nivracer - Accelerating at a higher rate when traveling at a lower speed doesn't mean you gained time. Again, imagine this with a more extreme example just to illustrate the physics behind this: imagine if a car is accelerating from 0 to 100 km/h in 5 seconds, while another car is accelerating from 100 to 150 km/h in 5 seconds. The first car gained 50 km/h more in the same time, but did he catch up to the second car in those 5 seconds? No, he didn't, because at every point of those 5 seconds, the first car was traveling at a lower velocity DESPITE having a higher rate of acceleration. I know what you mean, and I agree with your analogy with drag races where a car finishes a race and wins with a lower top speed because it accelerated better, BUT, in order for that to happen, the acceleration difference has to be pretty severe, which in the case of these two cars isn't, because the Lambo gained only 9 km/h over the Porsche over approximately 12 seconds, and did so in a very linear and even fashion, without sudden acceleration rate difference. That's a very small difference, and again, it wouldn't even keep the Lambo AT THE SAME DISTANCE from Porsche, let alone bring it closed. At other parts of the track the Lambo DOES gain time, as I've said in my other comment, because it starts to accelerate out of corners much SOONER than the Porsche and has better exit speeds, as well as brakes later. So on the rest of the track, it clearly gained over Porsche in pretty much every corner, but IN THIS EXAMPLE, on the straight line, something is fishy. It might be that Lambo didn't just speed up the entire video, but just segments of it. Again, it would be easy to do because the timer we see on the screen is added in later, and can easily be compensated for time manipulation of the actual video. Point is, either the data we see on the screen is wrong (which is sloppy from Lambo to release a video like that with false GPS data), or certain parts of the video are not in line with the laws of physics.
Speed is a function of distance and time. The 918 was moving at a higher average speed in that distance, thus it should've covered it in a shorter time. That's how distance and speed work. If you're going at a higher speed, you should cover distance X in a shorter duration, it doesn't matter if you have high or low acceleration. If you're in a VW Golf going 102km/h and pass a Tesla that accelerates 0-100 in 2.2 seconds, you will still cover the same distance in a shorter period of time. Good to see you failed basic physics in elementary school.
It's clear that we live in a time where manipulation/fake news rules the world. Whether you agree or not, this video proves that you should always think twice, don't believe everything that's being said and stay a critical thinker. Awesome video Misha! Furthermore, people who compare ring times (but don't race the car) merely buy cars to impress the neighbours.
アマ Competely agree with you! What I meant to say is that the wrong type of people brag with laptimes. I also enjoy reading forums where die hard racers compare their times with similar/different cars. Sure is an accurate representation of the capabilities of specific models. It's just that the 'instagram' generation feels they need to do the same thing. All those luxury money blabla instapages and lifestyle youtubers (who claim to be carguys) have their (indirect) influence on the car industry. These people just want to show off their wealth with looks or performance. We live in a world where lots of people prefer camo Aventadors or C63s over classic Alfas. It's cool that we don't have the same taste! Just feel that those people (in some stupid way haha) aren't allowed to say anything about laptimes etc. And indeed, I'm not a Le Mans winning racedriver either, but I would never be like 80 percent of the fanboys or rich people. "omgg Porsche is slow, it sucks.... or it's too slow, my rich friends don't take me serious anymore, I need a new faster one".
アマ that's why I watch salomondrin.His vlogs are not my type of thing but he's always called a spade a spade.He crirtises this laptime in his latest video by calling it fake.I don't see Shmee and other acclaimed car youtubers say that.
its a bit confusing but I understood it, anyways why would car makers in the same Auto Group want to fight each other I mean look what Audi did to their R8 just so they can sell more Huracans, they sent an Audi R8 with pirelli P zeros to motortrend and that made it I think 3 seconds slower than the huracan and the huracan had Cup2 tires if I remember correctly, despite the R8 winning over the huracan in other comparisons in tracks. the whole point is they don't want the 2 cars to fight each other in sales.
Even Johnny in a video said the Lamborghini Aventador SV was very close to the time lab of the 918 and thats only in the first 3 laps in the car until VW said stop it just so they don't embarrass the 918.
I love this analysis, Misha. I neither agree not disagree, but it's certainly going to stimulate discussion, which is why we're all here! Just on your last point, with an active aero car changing its drag characteristics constantly, it would theoretically be possible (however unlikely) to have both a slower entry and exit speed on a given section of straight, but still cover it in less time, if it moved somehow from "low drag" specification to "high drag" later in the straight. But I would definitely want to see the data from a manufacturer claiming that as a reasonable excuse (and maybe the aero vectoring should also be recalibrated!). Great discussion though.
The active aero can't change the laws of physics though. The indicated speeds are (presumably) the speed at which the car is actually travelling between the 2 points Misha has specified. It is impossible (without distorting time/space) to cover the same distance at a slower speed in a shorter time.
That's the big question here. The display Lambo have shown could just be a simulation for all we know. I'm not for or against either manufacturer, the whole dick waving side of car culture/fandom doesn't impress me. But without access to independent footage or diagnostics it's pretty impossible to say what actually happened.
By definition, speed is distance traveled divided by the time of travel. If your speed is higher it will take less time to travel a distance. Aero can only help your times by increasing your speed, it's no "magic"!
Racelogic and Pirelli have both confirmed the laptime as legit. I believe it puts this "controversy" to bed. Unless there is a surveillance video capturing cash envelopes being passed to them by Lamborghini lol. Too much emphasis has been put on the stock huracan 7.28 time. That was by a magazine driver so its obviously not going to match the speed of a test driver that knows the car well. Sport Auto magazine only did 7.13 in the 918 spyder when they tested it. Look it up on wiki. Wheres the conspiracy theories then? So much hate for what reason? Lambo hv produced a sensational car. Did the lap, made the video and had Pirelli and Racelogic pronounce it legit. Time to celebrate not hate
Huracan performante used pirelli trofeo R tires which are pretty good and if u have the money to get the lambo u can actually get the same tires the car ran that day. Also taking frames and measuring them as "facts" is a pretty big mistake. You are taking it from a video in which the frame u are stopping could be 10 or 15 meters away from where the car really was. Also comparing entry speed, top speed is not accurate either. The lambo couldve had lower entry but higher acceleration. Also keeping the max speed possible around corners because the car weights less. They showed the vbox log at geneva, even racelogica confirmed its real. Internet people is just amazing
We also have to remember that both the SV and Performante lap times are unverified by a third party whilst the 918's lap was verified by a 3rd party which means that Lambo can pretty much show footage as they choose without any verification of it being true apart from them saying "yeah it is true, why shouldn't you believe us? Oh that jump in footage? That's just a glitch, the car definitely did what we say it did". Until Lambo can prove with 3rd party verification that the lap times of both the SV and Performante are legitimate and not as dodgy as the footage of both suggests then.
CairnieR Why do you even think it s fake, do you think they are stupid to fake the time because anyone can find that out .It s to much risk .There are many other reasons why performante beat it +it have an active aero system but wait for the geneva motoshow and see it with your own eyes
1. It is well known that manufactures who don't have a 3rd party to verify their laptimes on the ring nine times out of ten have edited the recording/combined their fastest sectors times instead of using one complete fast lap(which is clearly what Lambo have done) or even choosing their own sector markers in order to make a lap shorter/quicker and 2. Active aero can only do so much, it can't bend time and physics to its will as Misha pointed out where there is a clear cut with the speedometer jumping from 160 to 190+ in about 1 second plus the long straight where the Lambo is slower on entry and exit than the 918 yet somehow covers the same distance as the 918 in less time which is LITERALLY impossible. Like every manufacturer does the same tactics when it comes to the dick measuring contest of the Nurburgring lap times, hence why some do not want 3rd parties to verify their times whilst others are more than happy to, unless a 3rd party like Sport Auto(who verified both the 918 and AMG GT-R lap times) has verified the Lambo lap times I am going to remain skeptical. But if you want to believe an unverified time posted by the manufacturer(who's main focus is selling the cars even if it means editing the lap times in order to appeal to those people who love saying "my car did x:xx:xx around the Nurburging despite them never taking the car there to do it themselves and the car seeing about as much track time in it's life as a solar eclipse) then go ahead no-one is stopping you, us skeptics are just pointing out the inconsistencies with their data.
Then if it is a GPS display/calibration error why post the video at all? Know full well the data is at fault what is the point is posting it other than saying "we did this!!! Don't question the data is faulty, but no we won't be doing another run with properly calibrated equipment that isn't faulty" and remember car companies are no above spinning their potential owners a line in order to sell cars(plus let's not forget who owns Lambo and their current history of faking data in order to sell cars). Also notice how it was Lamborghini who posted the videos and not Sport Auto who post verified 'ring lap times such as the GTR Nismo N Attack, also take note of how neither the Aventador SV or Huracan onboards show an actual VBOX set up on the dash unlike the 918, AMG GT-R, Nismo GTR N Attack, and pretty much every other car to attempt a lap time does. Which brings into question where Lambo were actually recording their data, where they using the cameras themselves as times or another system without having the lap time box fitted. Go through all the onboards here nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/ and see how many have a VBOX or similar on the dash, doesn't it strike you as odd that neither Lambo laptime has one clearly shown on the dash, with only the gauge cluster visible?
Wow, I thought if they didn't speed up the video a little, the Performante time is really too crazy to be plausible. Misha, thank you for your analysis. You didn't have a lot of time, but during such a short time I think you did a great job.
ruben matthys its not a real Temp gauge. it shows 90 all day if everything is ok but if the temp goes too high it will jump in the red. thats how most temp gauges work on street cars.
We call it the marketing gauge and our theory is that sub-humans(a.k.a non-car people) won't go every day to the mechanic saying that the car is overheating because the gauge shows 91C.
Lloyd Bolt are u dumb? i can run 30 minutes faster around a marathon with abit of training. Now here we are talking about precision driving, how hard it is to shave 0.1 seconds off a F1 track and we are talking about 36 seconds here. the faster the speed, the harder to cut the timing. Comparing with a transit van is just ridiculous
Nice work Boris.Maybe Nürburgring owners must force the manufactures to use validated GPS equipment for all the telemetry for objective results?Something like World Guinness Record Book standards?
There's no doubt that the Lambos natural habitat is in front of a nightclub being revved endlessly by a coked up trust fund baby, drug dealer or youtuber. But the Performante is a decent driving car. It is not capable of the time Lamborghini says, but it is a decent performer - much better than the 610 and EVO. If anything, it's a nice alternative to a 991.2 GT3RS.
Pretty compelling evidence and not doubting your conclusion, but could it be the case that their GPS tracker was faulty and sometimes reading a lower speed than what the car was actually doing? It's plausible as the speed jumping from 130 to 190 might suggest it was faulty. If that's the case, then the observations about the speed of the car through each corner, as well as the speed of the car between the bridge and gantry could be off. It's hard to say though, and hopefully the car will be independently tested once released.
John Dessire Exactly, the difference in speeds on straight and times not making sense could be appointed to a faulty GPS system, but in that case, why would they use it? It would be very sloppy to use a faulty GPS system while conducting an official lap time test.
04srikangr It's more likely they were using onboard speedometers on the videos and these use to be very inaccurate. My Golf lies the speed for about 10% but I had other cars that was pretty much spot on
GPS system is faulty when you attempt to break a lap record? That is ridiculous. "Look at the McLaren P1: 1547kg and 903bhp which gives a power/weight ratio of 590bhp/tonne. Look at the 918 Spyder: 1640kg and 887bhp with a power/weight ratio of around 550bhp/tonne. However, the Lamborghini Huracan Performante weighs around 1380kg and has a power output of 632bhp which gives a power/weight ratio of around 460bhp/tonne. Factor in the power advantage of the Porsche and McLaren on the straighter bits, i.e higher top speeds, better acceleration, and the minor modifications made to this car over the normal Huracan (ONLY 30bhp MORE FFS!!!), and it becomes frankly ridiculous to suggest that it is MORE THAN 5 SECONDS quicker around the Nurburgring than cars which are (objectively) WAY quicker, AND 30 seconds (THIRTY!!!) quicker than the normal Huracan to boot." (taken from FilmColumnist)
@@johndessire399 You clearly need to back up that statement with some kind of proof. Otherwise it's nothing but personal assumption. Here's something I don't think you know. One of the things I like about running on the Nordschleife, is that my V-Box is so spot on there. The Ring actually sits in a location that has immaculate GPS reception. It is also worth nothing that IF a GPS is faulty, and lose connection, it will either blank out, show an error message, or freeze. This just jumps from 130 to 190. GPS faults don't work like that. I have to ask. Are you by any chance a Lamborghini enthusiast? Not asking that as a joke or the like, I'm genuinely interested as I'd like to know your reasoning for making your initial statement.
I don't think Lamborghini would risk such a PR-disaster (when it really should get proven as fake). Also if they'd fake it, don't you think, they would make it a little more subtle?
It is 100% impossible. Fun fact. A Performante can't even run with a normal 488 that has some added camber and better brakes. And a normal 488 with those two changes is not a sub 7 min Ring car.
I've watched the video side by side exactly just now. His video conclusion is bullshit. The Lambo is consistantly about 1 or 2 km/h faster through the corner and also looks flatter and steadier. At the last straight before the finish the Lambo does 300 km/h where the 918 barely reaches 290. This guy just sees what he wants to see and made a video about it.
As far as your straight line theory, you can clearly see that the Huracan is able to accelerate faster than the 918 in the same section. Going from 244 km/h to 290 km/h is a difference of 46 km/h versus the 918 going from 255 km/h to 292 km/h a change of 37 km/h. This explains why the Huracan was able to clear the same section in a lower time. This also explains why cars with a lower trap speed in 1/4 mile race can beat a car with a higher one. The speed is higher yes but the time taken to reach the speed is shorter, hence the shorter time. As far as the issues at 4:28, those look like glitches during filming. The whole video is consistent minus that one instance, if they were going to fake the lap there would be multiple issues through out, not just one split second, it wouldnt shave a full 5 seconds off the lap. If there was a shot of the actual speedo in the car, it would put all questions to rest. I guess we will have to wait and see what Lamborghini have to say about these issues during filming.
The driver of the Huracan is insanely quick and drives dangerously close and sometimes even over the limit. Perhaps it is indeed the driver that won. Perhaps the driver can set a quicker lap time in a 918. laptimes on the Nürburgring is always going to be a bit shady. There are so many ways in which you can make a any car go faster and perform better. fuel, tyres. Also ideal wheather conditions, sunny, no wind are a factor to consider. What I hated about the lambo video was the low bumper camera which makes everything look faster. Thanks Misha for this investigative work. I found it very interesting. Perhaps you could do a follow up when you have learned more details. scndal? hahaha.
you can see that in the second before it the speedometer was rising and would have been right around 180, but it dropped to 130 for some reason @@larrydunn4626
Everyone is forgetting about the TYRES! This spec of Huracan runs semi-slicks as optional while the 918 runs sports tyres. Tyres are the greatest modification you can make to your car.
I didn't want to talk about this shit again, but here I go... So if any of you know anybody inside of major tire manufacturer ask them about this whole "Tire XYZ designed specially for ZYX car". If you don't i will tell you how it looks, certain tire in certain size (Size just right for this car), is different compound since why sometimes tire in certain size has smaller maximum load and or top speed than tire 10mm smaller/bigger, if you are local to Nurburg look at how many laps they do in full attack mode before going into pits, 1 maybe 2 if they are lucky(And they always go for tire change), and then compare it to other drivers use of "same" Semi-Slick tires. If you wan't more proof ask any of this testing groups to buy out their record winning tires, or ask them what happens to them afterwards ;). They all say the same story, that it either goes back into analysis, or they are not allowed by manufacturer because it is prototype tire not yet tested properly. Also there are two more "small" things like frame skipping in 60fps, and the fact that those cars are not dynoed beforehand, if any of you out there had chance to test pr fleet cars you will know that side do side they are few good % faster even in straight line (Which is main reason why they don't sell pr fleet cars instead they go into "museum").
Also there is second fuel for thought find out how much mods you need to shave off 36sec of your lap time, look at Nurburgring habitues Schirmer M3, Mini, look at how much more aero and power they need just to get 36 sec of their times ;). And this BS every time we have new "record" is all thanks to the fact that people seem to compare cars by Nurburgring lap times, and brag much more about it. (Even trough this bragging people can't even go sub 10 on Nurburgring). All we simply need is Independent party that will be there in place that will check cars mods, horsepower, tires, measure independently lap times (They can afford to pay off one more independent person if they can afford for all the R&D, video magic editing, and P&R bullshit..).
Amen! I'm tired of this crap where you have companies who have vested financial interests telling me they broke the RING record...of course they'd say that...until the RING outlaws this and they themselves are responsible for the timing of their track or have an independent source do it...RING lap numbers are just that...numbers.
Why did they mesure the lap time by gps? It's not very accurate. You have to put very precise sensors on the start/finish line to be able to claim a official lap time imo. F1 lap times aren't measured by GPS if i'm not mistaking. From that statement, i ususally don't beleive all those marketing videos.
My opinion is that these laptimes (I mean, the "ring lap") is something completely USELESS. Reason? One, simple: track conditions. If a shorter track like Vallelunga can get 1.5seconds slower from 10AM to 4 PM in april, we can imagine how a 25Km track can get faster or slower in the same day, and without considering the period of the year! So, do you want to test a car? Go Montmelò, the most neutral and complete track. Declare tyres. Declare air temp, track temp, humidity, wind speed. The rest is nothing more than commercial stuff.
No one ever thought about one thing. Remember, that it is only comparasion of data from car's tachometer. It's not really too accurate at high speeds. I did some math. Average speed from Huracan's tachometer between two bridges over Nordschleife's straight line is 271,5km/h. Distance(from Google Earth) between this 2 points is 1730 metres. It took car exactly 22 seconds to drive from A to B. So now the magical thing... 1730 meters in 22 seconds means 283,1km/h! It's ~4% of difference. If you would add this 4% to time, it will make time 7'08,5. That's just to show how big difference it can be. And Google's map's are very accurate at this point.
1. Passenger seat is missing due to roll cage. 2. It`s not a stripped out hardcore version like you are used to seeing. You do realize that this car has an active aero system superior to any road car currently in production? 3. Why don`t you wait for a full press release before starting analysis before claiming Bs?
Thank you for the extremely insightful analysis! I agree with you that the Lamborghini time is BULLSHIT (pun unintended) . I can't wait to see independent tests to confirm your hypothesis.
For the last straight (Gantry to TF Exit sign), Huracan Performante gained 56 km/h while 918 only gained 37 km/h, I'm quite surprise for that ... also, have anyone ever notice Honda Civic Type-R's Nurburging Record video have a bit odd at the last few seconds before it reach finish line? For that, I never take the CTR's Nur record seriously, despite I love the car.
There is a Sportscar magazine from Germany that does so called Supertests, where not only they test the vehicles on the Ring but also measure the actual poweroutput an suspension Settings befo doing hot laps. I'll wait to get their time before trusting in any other number..
Alper Öz you can find many of their Nürburgring Laps on RU-vid actually (channel is called "Sport Auto"). They tested the normal LP610/4 not long ago and it did a 7:28 if I remember correctly. You'll also find the video of their take on the 918 for comparison purposes (I'm actually led to believe that their footage is being used on this exact video here?). I'm getting their magazine monthly, never been to their website though.
probably a 'normalised' GT3 race car made to look like the road car and i doubt the time is real as you say in the video Misha they've taken best sector times from each part to get a best total lap time + slicks or semi slicks race fuel cabin stripped out for weight saving and as i said last night on facebook added Mr 7.09 as test driver who's bullshit would shave 30 seconds off a lap time anyway
The same argument was made about the Aventador SV so this FAKE claim is pretty similar. You need to see how they achieve this before you try to call the video fake. Have been brief on the tech and know some of the players involved, I know the integrity of the participants, this is not FAKE. Welcome to the new KING of the RING.
DoctaM3 Why instead of trying to just show off with unofficial timing why don't they win races officially like Porsche does? And then proclaim who is the official King, lol! Answer: because Lamborghini is all about showing off.
Great video. I think Lamborghini should be banned from the ring. They have lied about other car's times as well. That, or Nurburgring should finally setup actual testing rules that all manufactures must follow that includes their own people checking all cars for sketchy parts.
you know what I love about this. just like before now alejandro can line up a 918 and performante on thermal and put it to the test. competition is alive and well in the car community just when it was starting to feel boring. good job misha!
Since I am not the Ghini company owner or a representator, I only care about having one, it may lap Green Hell by 8 mins, looks and the engine sound and being in it is enough in the city. All of the regular ghini owners care more about how it looks, sounds and feels having one, not how quick it goes on a race track, pff...
Ain't no goddamn way a Huracan could beat a 918 and Lamborghini knows it. I guarantee you they will never put them up against each other at the same time.
Your evidence seems thoughtful, but might be mistaken, at the Geneva Motor Show a guy from CNET spoke to Reggiani and he explained how they did in, and it counters every point you made. I'm sorry, but I seriously don't understand why people have to assume that Lamborghini faked it, instead of having the "It's true until proven otherwise" attitude. Especially when if you really have a passion and love for cars, you wouldn't try shoot a manufacturer down as soon as they break some record, it's pathetic, because cars will always get faster, Koenigsegg have a real shot at doing it, but when video evidence, charts and Reggiani explaining it aren't enough, then God knows what these manufaturers have to do to prove it's real, cuz then you can bring it as many theories as you can to say it's fake with literally any record. But nevermind here's the link: www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/huracan-performante-gps-log/
I hate dickriders as much as I hate Lamborghini fanboys. People that have never been to a track just agreeing because it's the thing to do. Misha analysis was pretty good, there are definitely many good points, but it is useless to compare these two videos: 1- The track has changed, a lot 2- The data logging is not the same 3- The tires are not the same 4- The driver is not the same A true and definitive comparison would have to be done in the same exact condition, until then, it's only fanboying and dickriding. And Misha, as much as I love Porsche, the fact they have won a 24hr doesn't mean no one can beat them in a laptime.
Last part, no it does not, but what he is saying is that he finds in unlikely that a company that has been winning for so many years at that very track would lose to a company that has never won in the last 50 years. In the end tech from these races like LeMan get translated to road legal cars, just like with F1. Be it hybrid technology, better turbos or anything else for that matter. It is very strange to see such a huge increase by just changing very few parameters. if you compare 2 other cars with a 26 or 36 sec difference (whatever it was) then you'd see that the difference is immense. Idk, I don't buy it.
it's always questionable when someone goes to a track where they will happily certify your timing (which you went there because of the big name they have in the first place) but they say "no..." I think I will do it myself thank you, and I will applaud myself
Those two things have litle to do with one another. The cheats on the ring is not a new thing. Remember the Zonda R time of 6.47? Cheating. The GT-R? Cheating. There are so many controversial runs.
I also thought that Lambo might have sped up the video. Which is super easy to do, if you speed up a video by 2 or 3%, but keep the timer accurate, and compensate for the sound pitch change with some audio editing software, NOBODY, NO FUCKING BODY will notice it while watching it, and on a 7 minute long footage, you will cut off 12 seconds by doing that. That would explain how the Lambo covered the same distance as the Porsche in less time despite having a lower initial and final speed, which is just physically impossible. The only way that is possible is with time manipulation of the footage. Again, 2-3% sped or footage is NOTHING, you cannot notice it, especially if you do a little trick of limiting the FPS of the video to a farily low value, less 24 fps for sure in this case, and you properly compensate for the audio pitch change (which is literally a 10 second job in any audio editing software, or even most video editing stuff). The timers are added in later with proper time. Easy peasy. Super easy to cheat if you want to.
Cool analyse ;) After seeing it ( and your excel sheets ), I am almost completely convinced that something is wrong. But the only thing that bothers me is sector length. In your excel sheet, there is an average of all sector speeds which should correspond to the track average speed which corresponds to time. 158.9 for the 918 and 156.3 for the Huracàn. But that is assuming all the sectors you chose were the exact same length, I don't know about Nürburgring sector lengths, but I thought that was something interesting to bring up, and that it could either equalize the two cars or put an even bigger gap between them. Love your videos ;)
Interesting watch, but realistically all it takes to put the issues to rest in future is having race track beacons like every other race track in the world. Even a guy on the side of the track with a stop watch - surely they have exterior footage showing the time the car crossed the line. I feel that it would be extremely unlikely and very bold of a company to literally flat out lie. The case/stripped interior is something nearly every manufacturer do. A cage in a huracan is going to offer nearly no additional rigidity when it has a carbon/alloy tub already. Unfortunately there is no governing body to watch over manufacturers for these tests. I would put money on the fact that these cars (regardless of manufacturer) are tweaked - different power, different brake compounds, fluids, fuels etc than a normal buyer gets when they get it off the show room floor... That said - I still ordered a Performante, so while I wont be doing the 'ring, I will be able to compare it on local tracks :P
I totally agree - this laptime is BS I'm sure they have speeded it up just a frame or two. The Ring records should happen using some sort of official timing crew, like Guiness book of records
Taking the turns faster allows the Lambo to do a better time and the Huracan has a better top speed too. The driver also changes the way of doing the lines so all of this could change the time pretty much.
What I don't get is all the people saying that the VW group is known for cheating and therefore the lap time is cheated. If that would be the only reason, than you could make the same argument about Porsche. They are both owned by VW.
I was critical to start with when i heard the Huracan's time and after watching Misha's video i was almost convinced it had to be trickery. Firstly, let me state i enjoyed your video Misha, it's very interesting. But I spent the past 2,5 hours comparing the videos of the Lambo and the Porsche and i'm not sure i agree with Misha anymore. In the two video's i just examined the Lambo consistenly accelerates faster out of corners and brakes later, while the Porsche catches up on the straights. It's very close between the cars up until karroussel but after that the Lambo is slightly in front and builds it's lead. Comparing the onscreen speedometers and going pretty much frame-by-frame in varous spots i don't entirely agree with all of Misha's excell sheet speeds either. Correct me if i'm wrong but i feel like some of the numbers in Misha's sheet are slightly off, like they weren't taken at exact the same spot on the track. Still i agree the Lambo time feels suspicious, it seems too good to be true. But i don't think it's in video trickery. I'm inclined to think the car was somehow tricked out to be extra speedy for this run. Either way, i'm not convinced. I'll wait for some third party to set their own laptime with the car before i make up my mind :)
When I first saw the video of the "record" Lamborghini I just thought this is just IMPOSSIBLE, not only the fact that the huracán gets to do that time, but also the speed it was doing at some corners was just not right..
Everybody seems to forget the track has changed since the 918 set it's time. Let them drive on it now and see what the time is. They might be a lot quicker now as well
There's more at play here than the eye can see. I was at the private Performante unveil event in NYC. While we were forced to sign an NDA meaning I can't tell you exactly what makes me believe this lap record, I can tell you that there are things that Lamborghini has not yet disclosed about this car that make this lap time very feasible.
Lamborghini also claimed that the Aventador SV did the Nurburgring in 6.59.73 which is ridiculous because in all comparisons the SV is much much slower than a 918.
Misha, you did an amazing job on this one, I like the idea and the work on your edit, looks really fun, Like the rythm too. And, Like the way that you speak about that. Could you do this kind of work more often with all this "wierd" lap times ? Could be just AWESOME ;-)
BTW, for a person who is a lot at the Ring, you should know that the people at the Ring won`t let you run for a record lap if you don`t have a roll cage, a fire extinguisher and other safety equipment to set a lap. They will say "no", if you refuse to add those to your car.
You did not mention anything about supercars but only that "people at the Ring" won't let you run for a record lap if you don`t have a roll cage, a fire extinguisher and other safety equipment to set a lap.
AP13P i guess this wouldnt matter if supercar or Mini van as long as it is very fucking quick. wouldnt make sense to make manufacturers put a rollcage in a supercar for a 7.xx lap but a sedan doesnt need to in a 7.xx lap. germany doesnt work like that.
