FAKE OR FORTUNE SE1EO4 VAN MEEGEREN 

Still a business for it to exist people need to make money like it it not

My favorite artwork hanging in my home is by my nephew, the kids I baby sat and my friends' kids when they were young. Priceless and made with love.

I've got paintings of my pets, painted by my niece. Other than photos of family (many now passed) is a small picture she painted at a much younger age -- it marks the transition where she started learning proper painting.

This is so true. After painting whole life what i value is what is done by my daughter.

Exactly. Imagine being one of the old masters, spending decades perfecting your craft, studying: the blending of paints, the correct treatment of canvasses, anatomy, how to create the exact luminescence of skin texture, light in the eyes, etc. etc.... and then coming forward in time. Stepping into a modern art gallery and watching someone pay $ 1 Mill for 3 square blocks of colour and a couple of lines. 😵‍💫 { Actually... Maybe I can make some Kindergarten Art and see if I can convince the gullible it has profound meaning. YOU could try to sell your children's art! 🤣🙃😉 }

Every bit of this comment was worth reading, thanks so much!

@@audreymuzingo933 Thank you! That's lovely of you!!!

Thank you for sharing!

They did mention that he was a hero to the Dutch ....

Oh? I find him to be a pathetically untalented and twisted individual. And anyone fooled should really take another look at their own credentials. The examples I have seen are very poorly conceived and drawn, and hopelessly maudlin.

Rag bill eroMro

Yeah, it really looked very good from a distance, he really got her facial expression right

@Eric F - He is certainly excellent at drawing.

I reckon, find a contemporary and upcoming forger, etc.

I’m

Lp o😊ippp😅pp

Have you a contemporary artist you admire ?

I was thinking the same thing. Tape the receipt in an envelope to the back and enjoy it for life and hope an ancestor does, too.

Watching the baking and cracking process I wondered whether it mightn't have worked much better if they had taken it out after a shorter period of baking, cracked it when it was partially dry but not enough that it was fully disintegrating with large fragments flying off the canvas, added a varnish or thin layer of the resin to stabilise the partial cracks then finish the baking process off. The forger in the episode had one go and did a pretty impressive job, I reckon with time and experimentation with different variations on the technique he could have nailed it.

@@smithersrob They also did not show any kind of varnish layer. I'm guessing adding Bakelite to the primer (the grey layer) would both improve adhesion to it, and improve the cracking. If the primer were made with Bakelite properly mixed in as a binder, it would form a very hard base.

i think it still is. otherwise,why is it so hard to find out the difference between real or fake?( In Vienna there's a Museum of fake art. EVERYTHING one can see there is not what it seems to be. Might that be stone age - coins-, people fell for it, or pictures of old masters. it is amazing what had come together over the years). Like the Tiergarten Schönbrunn, the - Fälscher Museum - a must see when in Vienna.

Correct.

@@benediktmorak4409 ZZZ ZZZ ZZZ z ZZZ ZZZ z ZZZ sass ZZZ zz zz ZZZzz ZZZz zzz z zzzzZA z1zzzli

I think it was said in another episode, paraphrasing here: "If it looks authentic and as far as anyone can tell it's authentic, then it IS authentic. A piece is as real as people believe it is" or something like that. But at the same time, I think the same goes for talent too. A work is is as good as people believe it is. So there is where I can't help but admire forgers. If they can fool everyone into thinking they created something by someone "good" and it looks "good" in the same way that that person created things, then they ARE GOOD artists!!

@@audreymuzingo933 i think forgers ARE good artists. otherwise, how would they have gotten away with so much for such a long time?

Could have headed this spoiler alert

@@wildandbarefoot Don't worry - I can't make heads or tails of the comment, personally. Up is down, down is up, heads are tails, tails are heads - huh?

@@FigaroHeyit's all in motion I guess....

@@wildandbarefoot - Spoiler alerts are silly. We are adults here.

Maybe adding water from behind may have done a better job

Referral to Interpol duly noted (just kidding)

yes, warm it with a hair dryer and then use freeze spray (compressed air basically) which will freeze it immediately.

I've read of forgers simply popping the painting in the oven for awhile!

It's no different to those who buy Tesla stock or the latest Crypto-meme-token thingies. It's only valuable because a group of people covet it far beyond its actual value. And that crowd's opinion can change overnight, thus "destroying" the value. Actually, I'd say buying a painting is better than buying crypto currencies, since the paintings do have some actual value.

Matt Kustom Kostumes , where did this bitterness begin Matt?

Yup. Great art is truly a great thing, and some of the world's moneyed gentry are good people. But the pretention, the insulation from the real world is all over them.

Lol

@@Pete-z6e Well said Peter, well-said. So familiar with talentless drones.

@Matt's Kaustic Komments - It is a case of consumer fraud. When somebody buys something, they have the right to get what they paid for. When an institution uses their supporter's donated money and their visitor's admission funds and gift shop purchases to buy convincing fakes, they are not the only ones wronged, but a whole string of people are.

If this artist is so Good why couldn't the artist do his own.. r

Probably for the same reason some people pay large sums for NFTs.

@@lindaheath784. They probably lacked completely in fantasy which is what makes a painting fascinating. Oh, they were very gifted painters, as good as the original artists, but were too lazy to create something of their own, which is an amazingly difficult thing to do...something which has never been seen or done before.

@@lindaheath784 because there's a lot less money in that

What about a poorer person who loses money as a consequence of being duped by a forgery ? What about the fact that a forger distorts the catalogue raisonne of an artist ? I am appalled by the petty and vindictive nature of your post .

@@fredarcher7264 While I do agree the original poster is being petty in his rationale to see others taking financial damage but your reasoning falls short of justification as well. Regarding the artist, most of them are dead so who cares? These artists have literally been dead for centuries what difference does it make? Also what the hell is a poor person doing taking risks on expensive pairings? Any financial hardships brought upon by forgeries is their fault and their fault alone, if they don’t have the financial means to gamble on antique paintings they shouldn’t get involved.

@@henrylivingstone2971 That's right! A poor person who may love art has no business buying a work of art even if it may be an inexpensive piece that he can afford. Ownership of art is responsibly done only by wealthy people.

@@franklesser5655 You’re taking this to the extremes. And you’re purposefully misconstruing my stance. Art as a hobby or personal collection is fine but art as an investment should be left to those who won’t be rendered destitute in the case of a forgery. Anyone should be able to purchase art (if they can afford to do so). If one is financially unstable, they have no business in investing in art whatsoever. The art market is a very volatile market and someone who doesn’t have disposable income shouldn’t be banking their paycheck on what might be a forgery.

@@henrylivingstone2971 Yes, I agree. Those that are, "financially unstable have no business in investing in art whatsoever." If only those, "financially unstable," individuals would learn.

True!

It is a good question. I'd love to ask one of the stars of the show! I think you're right that they wanted free publicity for whatever reason.

Well why not have The Coutauld Institute agree to assistance? They surely don’t know everything. So other instinctive and cognitive intelligence must have a go. Besides; this was a terrific episode.

as we have seen in these episodes, even the - absolute experts - can err. And since this Series is not a -Punch & Judy show, there are also other excellent laboratories and Institutes present, why not the mas well. A little bit of advertising never does any harm?

@kareharpies - As they pointed out in the episode, the institution's art experts were divided about whether it was genuine or fake. They needed fresh eyes and someone to discover van Meegeren's use of Bakelite. Now, museums and collectors all over the world are now probably having their works tested for the substance!

What would be even cooler is if they explained what chemical reactions were taking place to create the white compound. For example why stale urine vs fresh urine. Does evaporation lead to a more concentrated chemical? Is dung heap about creating the right temperature for the reaction to work or does it also have chemicals that are reacting with the lead?

Some other TV show re-created it in detail. Lead spirals are placed in urns and covered with straw loaded with dung and left to fume for some time. The white flakes off the lead and they repeat.

@@brittanyt729 Start with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_white#Production_methods . Details are given by ChatCPT, without even needing to use the Browser plug-in. >quote> The use of urine in the production of lead white pigment, also known as lead(II) carbonate, dates back to ancient times and was commonly used until the late 19th century. Stale urine was specifically used because it contains ammonia, which is produced when urea in the urine breaks down over time. The general process of creating lead white with urine involves the following steps: 1. Sheets or strips of lead are rolled up or otherwise arranged in earthenware pots. 2. Each pot is then filled with vinegar (acetic acid), which reacts with the lead to form lead acetate. 3. The pots are then placed in a larger container, which is filled with manure or another fermenting organic material. The heat from the fermentation process accelerates the reaction. 4. Urine is then added to the larger container, where it decomposes and produces ammonia. 5. The ammonia reacts with the lead acetate to form lead carbonate (lead white), which precipitates out and can be collected from the lead sheets. The use of *stale urine* is important because fresh urine does not contain a significant amount of ammonia. It takes some time for the urea in the urine to break down into ammonia, so only after the urine has been allowed to sit (become "stale") will it be useful in this process. The production of lead white using this method is a slow process, typically taking several weeks. It was eventually replaced by more efficient industrial methods in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Agreed

I'll do one for you for £200

Not exactly

The problem they faced, though, wasn't the lack of craquelure as much as the fact that the paint didn't adhere properly to the canvas. Van Meegeren must have used some more forgery tricks of the trade there other than simply adding a foreign substance into the mix. But perhaps they've only went overboard with the temperature. perhaps the trick is slowly increasing the temperature - and/or letting the painting first dry naturally for some weeks or months before baking. Or alternating between baking and freezing.

If they had used traditional hide glue gesso, I think that repeated wet/dry cycles would have produced the craquelure. So I agree with you.

Van Meegeren didn't make exact copies, he made originals.

I'll paint one for you, if you want. I could paint a convincing copy, or create an "original' for you. Email me through our art academy in Florence, Italy: www.angelacademyofart.com

@@michaeljohnangel6359 no dude I want davinci himself painting it for me

Van Meegeren forgeries are really expensives.

That's typical for TV and it's stretched out to fill an hour, like a puff-piece in a newspaper. Many programmes are made this way, pulp for the masses. Co-incidentally I have worked with Fiona Bruce and she is very pleasant.

Except the episode says the trial covered his materials, they only re-tested it since technology has advanced so much it became worthwhile to get a modern record. Them talking about bakelite is just for the audience's benefit. They have to explain every step simple for an inexperienced audience. And yes, that does involve some pretending.

@@heraldeventsandfilms5970 I envy you for living somewhere that "pulp for the masses" includes a multi-season show featuring art experts, researchers, historians and scientists educating and identifying classic works. Here we're served up Real Whorehousewives and MILF Island.

@@kiwilerner There are FAR better features on Van Meegeren than this box-ticking hokum made for idiots. The book 'I Was Vermeer' by Frank Wynne is better than any of them though.

I agree 100%. And I'm only an amateur as well, but his mock 'Girl Reading A Letter' -you know what it reminds me of? This paint-by-number replica of The Last Supper by da Vinci that my grandmother painted back in the 50's. Like it wasn't an El Cheapo one, it was pretty big and well-designed so that the painter could get in lots of detail, and my grandma did - she probably did the very best anyone could do with a paint-by-number and it turned out beautiful! But still, all carefully dragged lines, no color blending, etc., it definitely did not look like an original painting, never mind da Vinci's.

I cringed as well.

I’ve noticed music from Amélie as well, in a few of the episodes

They also use the Basic Instinct soundtrack !

The Salvator Mundi is at least partially attributed to Leonardo based on surviving passages of the right blessing hand and details of the orb he's holding. The problem is that the face was so badly damaged and abraded that the restorer essentially had to repaint it with almost nothing to go off of, hence why details of the jawline, nose and eyes are uneven and crooked. The cleaned painting didn't have those flaws.

Or a painting of Brienne of Tarth

No real artist has to work with such skill and dedication as that of a forgery. He really went to some crazy levels to fake it. No wonder people admire him, its hard not to admire his skills and dedication.

Exactly ! its pronounced "Van Meegeren" not "Van Meegeren":

@@stuart8663 Thanks for clearing that up!

@Epsilon Theta there is another documentary on RU-vid they explain how he could do it. It’s because the early vermeer where very different from the later Vermeer so they thought there would be other paintings in between and it should be Christian paintings. So van meegeren just made it this way because the art collectors expect them to be like this.

@Epsilon Theta yeah the early ones were good but later he became sloppy.

Your 100% right

He was an avowed Nazi sympathizer.