So Once again, another buyers tip! the fake is a bargain! get the fake and save nearly $500!! keeps great time, looks the same to the naked eye and costs a fraction of the price!
Ball makes a diver world timer. And for me this is a great combination. I can go swimming / snorkeling without a worry and I also have a true useful function of the world timer.
** Errata - 11:20 I voiced the genuine and fake thicknesses the wrong way round. The fake is 13.8mm thick and the Genuine is 13.3mm ** ** EDIT - Also forgot to mention, most of these fakes seem to have the same serial number being 630711 - including the one featured here. ** In this video I perform a very comprehensive comparison of a very convincing clone of a $500 Seiko Prospex PADI Pepsi divers watch.
Probably because the fake caseback wasn't as tight and it was ready to leak on your first dive. Imagine people complaining online that their SEIKO diver leaked.
Yep I also have a fake, Same serial as yours. I also noticed the font used on the caseback is wrong. The k in seiko is much different and also they didn't add the special edition marking to the back either.
Geday Mark, The movement is a genuine NH36. You can buy them for about 40USD from the Chinese shopping sites. There wouldn't be an economic reason to copy them. The "Tribal Tattoos" under the rotor are pretty common on all 7S derived movements. Not sure of the reason, perhaps it's part of the rivet for the bearing? The rest is garbage though. The hair would have been introduced by the guy fitting the "decoration disc". As far as I'm aware, All SEIKO movements except GS are made in one of several factories around Asia. There's no discernible difference between any of them, and when you think about it rationally, would the Japanese find it acceptable for each factory to just kinda do their own thing? The theories about some sort of secret sauce being in a movement from a certain country just aren't true. I don't think any of the 7S derived movements are manufactured on the Japanese homeland. That said, it's somewhat common for the SEIKO robots to be asleep at the wheel and do some truly terrible oiling, but it's not isolated to one factory. There's no such thing as a "monday, wednesday, friday movement", to use a British car industry analogy. The stock oiling on the 7S derived movements ranges from "Just OK" to "Absolutely awful". But this is why the movements are $40 and not many hundreds. If you rebuild a stock 7S derived movement, oil it with MOEBIUS oils, they usually perform between 10-30 degrees better amplitude wise and have a much straighter timegrapher line. Another point to note is since the 7S36C variant, the lower barrel arbor has been jewelled, which solves the major wear issue with these movements and the introduction of the ETA style regulator pin, a lot of the issues with these movements can be tuned out.
i’m not sure about that. Even a bronz or titanium zelos with a 1000m rating still charge under $1k with a nh35 inside. some very basic micros will attempt a 600$ nh35 watch but i think that’s the limit the market will pay - at that point you might as well get a seiko. Which micros do you know charging +1k?
But there is no real difference between a 4R... and NH36. So Seiko have done the "upgrade" in name so that fakes can be spotted. So would a strip down reveal anything?
Thanks so much for this comparison. The replica/fakes are getting better and better as they are now branding the movements with fairly convincing accuracy to the untrained eye. I used to be a bargain hunter but now I only purchase direct or from an authorized seller. Bottom line is how YOU personally feel when you wear your watch. Do you want to wonder if it's real or have that piece of mind that it's 100% genuine?
Seiko's watches are so overblown due to certain youtubers gushing over how amazing they are, but they're just shit. The watches are so poorly constructed, there's an entire aftermarket modding community dedicated to making them less shit. With some people spending hundreds or thousands of dollars making their crappy divers actually useful.
NH36A are great movements and widely used on cheap watches from other brands, my invicta pro diver have the Sii and NH36A markings on the weight next to the Invicta Marking, the NH36A is manufactured by Seiko and it is farly cheap, only 34-37usd on ebay.
I consider it not to be a complete fake. The most important part (and 90%) of the watch actually tuned out to be _genuine_ Seiko: the movement. The part that *keeps time* in the "fake" one is real. And what does a watch do? Yep: it keeps time. Maybe you're a schnob to by the "real" one. Seiko are having a laugh at us: they sell their movement to you for $500 and to 3rd party manufacturers for less than a tenth.
As others have said, a pressure test would be informative; however, for $70 with such a good movement I’m struggling to understand why the genuine is so expensive - perhaps it’s Seiko who are ripping people off!
The NH36 is not used in real Seiko watches and can be bought for $40 USD. The look-alike case, dial, and bracelet are then fabricated for $8 or so and, when combined with the OEM movement, can be sold as a Seiko for hundreds of dollars, giving the seller a +1000% profit. Makes perfect sense to me.
Right. It makes it hard to compare when the genuine Seiko bracelet is so mediocre. Really, I've seen better bracelets on homage watches and they don't sell for even a fifth of what Seiko gets.
NO. Were they ever good? I wasted a few hundred on the recommendation of certain youtubers before I realized they were just flat out zealots or lying. Misaligned chapter rings, poor construction, unregulated movements +/- 45s / day. fucking hardlex sold as a feature instead of sapphire, and the list goes on. Low beat movements along with only 48 hr reserves. Just terrible watches. They might have been good watches back in the 70's, but I wasn't alive much less buying watches then, and as for today, its the same watch from the 70's but with no improvements. But more expensive.
I kinda get a fake Daytona, Submariner, Nautilus, or Royal Oak. But a fake Seiko? You can get a decent Seiko for under $200. Seems silly to fake a Seiko.
it has more to do with the sales number than the prestige. Seiko sells huge amount of watches. if they can get a tiny bit of that, even though it's not expensive, it represents quite a lot of money at the end.
Good educational video Mark . I am going to share this one on a few more groups for you so people are more aware. Glad I spotted the fake yesterday in the FB group ! I’d have died if I got it wrong...
Although there are obvious signs of lower quality those could be addressed 4 less than the difference between the two watches. So the question is if it looks like a Seiko, runs like a Seiko and although most critical bits or actually made by seiko.... unless you are a diver which one is actually the best value?
What if the Chinese copy was on par with the original? I heard the Chinese are making good watches nowadays. I heard they will be the leading watch makers in the future. Good upload!
Thanks, Mark that was great fun. I was able to follow along with my identical fake PADI with you and learn from the master. At about $45 USD, I knew it was a fake and was greatly encouraged to learn it has a real NH36 movement at least. Still looking forward to the start of level 4 chrono classes. Cheers from the US!
Seiko pretty much only have themselves to blame in this, when you produce a cheap movement with the intentions of letting any other company use them, then you have opened the door and basically welcomed these fakers to come in and take away profits by producing cheap versions of the original. Given the rather minimal differences to these watches and let's face it, a lot of buyers, either wont care about the differences, or simply wont know about them. The minor differences in the time keeping could easily be adjusted out and the two would match either identical or so close it wouldn't matter. This is nothing like the fake Rolex's using garbage ETA copies, this is Seiko v Seiko in a very minor inferior case. I can't speak for others, but I dislike all this type of movement. from the 7002 right through to the 4R36, they are cheap, not nasty but cheap units when compared to the likes of the 6 series and prior, I find them just horrible little things with no attention to detail and a blatant cheapness to them that is off putting, so much so, if at all possible, I refuse to work on them.
tbh anyone buying a $70 Feiko probably isn't likely to be able to afford the genuine Seiko. The 6R15 isn't that much better than the 4R imo, though I don't have problems with either. I find Seiko don't really do particularly nice movements until the 6L35.
You spent great deal of time comparing two identical movements. No one in their right mind would fake a cheap and readily available NH36/4R36 movement. They are the same bloody thing. On the other hand, even the genuine PADI turtle does not worth $500. I'm a Seiko fan but I'm also a fan of truth.
Well, very informative video. I just learned my $100 Seiko PADI automatic is a fake. Oh, well... if that's the worst thing that ever happens to me, (for the rest of my life), I'll have it made.
I'd be inclined to believe it's a genuine NH36 looking at the detailed close ups. Having seen some cheaply made clones of Seiko movements they seem to be noticeably worse in finish. Edges of bridges etc. Which makes sense considering how cheap the NH movements are anyway. Someone mentioned micro brands and cost, bear in mind that while many micro brands watches do use the NH they're typically (at least), checked and regulated for accuracy and (hopefully) assembled in cleaner environments than most fakes which are being pumped out lightning fast.
Well well well... thing is besides the dodgy bezel purely as watch (& not a replica) its not a bad deal from the perspective it comes with presumably SS case,solid end links & bracelet,screw down crown & NH36 & " just so happens" to look like a PADI ..for around £60 i can see a fair few folk going for it knowingly,
The scariest part you mentioned is that if the fake was closer in value to the real you may have gone for it! Thanks for the review and alerting us on what to watch out for!
The real problem is that the fake is a better value for the money, and is just simply using the generic movement along with the old 60 click bezel and sticker.
@@OrbitalRescueSage I have a fake SKX, I also have the original and bought the fake to do some modding and use it as a beater on holidays since the original is now out of production. The problem is that, if you like watches, you won't stop looking at the imperfections and noticing the lower quality details. Also, if you like a brand, then you know you're wearing a fake and it's not the same thing, regardless of the price (the SKX is not an expensive watch). If you don't care about the watch itself and just want to show off and buy a fake Rolex just as a status symbol, then it's a different story.
@@TommasoPaba - I couldn’t agree more with you. When you wear an expensive looking copy, you tend to be shy in case someone “knows”. You are then watching for reactions. In Asia many people “know” and it’s hard to get away with it, but back in the US or UK, people are not so aware and discerning unless you attend a watchmakers convention wearing one, or people know you’ve just got back from Asia and they might guess.
I was going to say, aren't they both seiko movements? The nh36 is the older work horse(cheaper) movement? I'm new to all this so don't judge me too harshly.
Jeffrey Tally , I think the NH versions are the same series but just meant for resale to other manufacturers to put into their watches. I did not know about the different locations of production mentioned by Jay.
NH36 and 4r36 are the same accept for the labeling on the counter weight. Both runs the same if you calibrate it. NH36 is for the open market sellers or manufacturer who wants to use Seiko movement.
I really liked how you meticulously open up the watch and examine every single details. I have gained much knowledge not only how to identify fake and genuine watches but also be able to see and understand the art of making it works to what it truly becomes of the watch. Thank you.
Well, the NH36 comes stock with the grey movement spacer which is actually 1mm thinner than the black Seiko diver’s movement spacer. It also comes with a 3 o’clock day wheel that needs to be replaced with one for the 4 o’clock crown position. I mod Seikos as well as build them from scratch with aftermarket case parts and have extensive experience with this movement as an upgrade to the 7S26. The NH36 is manufactured in either Malaysia or Japan according to the TMI technical guide for the movement.
Seiko used to offer good value for money, but these days they are close to being as overpriced as Swiss watches. This fake is almost 1/10th of the price of the real thing but uses a near-identical movement. So what do you really get for paying full price?
In the real seiko, the case and other parts are much higher quality. You are also getting true water resistance. look inside the fake and you will find fingerprints, dirt, hair, dust and lots of other crud. It was put together in a filthy factory as opposed to a clean room environment youd find in a seiko factory.
Yep, we all hate fakes, but getting a genuine seiko movement & 99% of the look.....🤔. I can see why some would buy this particular fake with their eyes-open & be completely happy with it. I would never buy a feiko, but I do have a few very cheap Chinese watches with genuine seiko & miyota movements that I'm 100% happy with. The seiko SARB I own is perfection to me (even under the loupe) & If I'd paid full price for Mark's seiko, those identified defects would really bother me & I'd have return it.
The only thing about the fake that made me say "That stinks" was the misalignment of the calendar. Other than that, I was waiting for the part that proves the genuine is worth 4-5 times the cost. Didn't see it.
If it's anything like the Feiko SKX then if you split the bezel off you will see fundamental differences in the ratchet mechanism. A work of absolutely hideous butchery.
A proverbial SLAP IN A FACE OF SEIKO from some unknown Chinese assembler who managed to make a watch which very marginally different from an original Seiko but sells for 1/10 of a price. I do not know how Seiko could justify their prices after that.
Yes Mark, They are very identical. I do own them both. A fake from Thailand for 110 Euro and an Original from Holland's shop in a promotion for 400 Euro. Yes, the original is far well finished and better in many things in outside! But like time keeping! The original Seiko and the fake did and do perform totally equal and outstanding!!! The Fake did run (After my intervention) in 2 to 3 sec + in a day! So, every Sunday I noticed some 10 to 15 sec + ! Than in the night on Saturday and Sunday I take the Watch of my hand for the night and put it on the shelf next to my bed with the glass downside (which was the position for my Watch to loose time)!!! So, in the Mondays I see my Fake watch again in minus 15 seconds. I never did unscrew the crown to correct the time for SEVEN months. I did use the crown every second month to change the calendar to jump from 31 to 1, because not every month has 31 days... After the Seventh month my wife did buy me an Original one and the "old one" i did give to her Father. p.s. do not laugh, at that time I thought it was an original Seiko, b.w. her Papa is happy with that Seiko! me to with his daughter!!! ;) peace .v..
Ah Mark, sometimes ignorance is bliss!!, think of the joy and eye pleasure ordinary punters are getting for a fraction of the real watch price. Looked fairly good on the timegrapher. Just don't saw it in half!!! 😂😂, thanks, Adrian ☘️
A Seiko 4R35 and a NH35A are considered to be the same. They are both made outside Japan. Even the Turtle watch is made outside Japan. On the Philippines are watch factories that produce Seiko watches, or parts for Seiko watches. To be honest, this fake watch you are showing here is not really that bad. The quality of the original Seiko is not great either, so there is a grey area of rather good Seiko's that cost $500,- and a slightly less quality Seiko fake for 15% of the price of the original, probably made on the other side of the same street, somewhere on the Philippines. Same wages, same horrible working conditions, but now without the profit margin for Seiko. I would easily pay 30% for a fake if the people are paid 1 dollar per hour more in the fake Seiko factory on the other side of the street. Fuck Seiko.
@@johncoops6897 why are you so worked up about his comment ? Did the last 2 years calm you down ? Or are you still upset about random things in your life ?
being ripped by a scammer buying a fake one for less than retail or being ripped by the manufacturer paying more than retail. a few years ago i bought a Beats audio clon headset for dirty cheap,maybe 30 dollars,while originall costs about 250, i dont know the difference in audio quality,but externally they seemed just the same,including package.In fact,the only differences were in the box graphics,an slight color change in a little text,other placed a few milimiters to one side,etc,etc.you need the original and put them side by side to tell the difference. i wondered how much people had been ripped by dishonest stores,or stores by distributors....im sure originalls and fakes came from the same electronics plant. some reviewers even said there was no much difference in audio.
Don’t buy from Banggood lol I’ve seen all kinds of fake seikos on there. I’ve seen the flying pig limited watches on there for $45 and they are quartz. I guess you get what you pay for. I have always got my watches 2 ways buy from an authorized resales store or have inherited them. I got a Rolex submariner and a 50s gold omega Geneva with interchangeable bands. And I have all the paperwork from when it was bought and service paperwork from Omega detailing the service. That watch is valued and insured for $15,500. My grandfather bought it when he was in Europe in the Air Force. He was in Europe after wwii. They were stationed in Germany. But when they got time off he went all over Europe. That watch was $125 in 1953 according to the receipt it was bought in Switzerland. Also he had a pair of bespoke shoes he got in Italy that we buried him with those on. But I have seen a recent documentary about that place I think now it will cost you 5k for those shoes and he gave the equivalent of $75 and took 3 months to be made. They are custom made to fit your foot perfectly. They cast your foot so they can make your shoes. They build them to last a lifetime. My paw paws did he got them in the early 50s and wore them almost every day and they always looked good. He’s had to have some minor repairs here and there. Just shoe shin was all he did to them. He said that American money would get you better stuff. Gotta remember Europe just got done with one hell of a war so it was nothing like the Europe of today.
My heart skipped a beat when I saw this video. Quickly checked my Pady turtle and luckily it is a real Seiko. 4R36 on the dial, numbered bracelet, divers extension, Red to 20 ... everything is correct. Bought a year ago for the price of 460 euros (517 USD). Thanks for the info.
Bought mine a few days ago at Macy’s for $400 USD plus tax, it was a weekend sale. I just checked mine and it’s authentic. I have all the paperwork and warranty card.
@josephk7530 I buy many turtles at macys. All legit. I bought from ebay as well and all legit as well. I usually compare the seikos I buy in ebay to one of the many seikos I own. So far so good.
Buy a steeldive or hiemdallar copy , both use nh36 movement and are built dare I say it better than Seiko!! My steeldive runs -5 per day which is not bad for a £95 watch oh and it comes with a shaphire crystal and creamic lumed bezel insert. The line on the dial last for hours to!
nh36 is just roughly around 27 dollar in china,if u buy in big scale. u will get cheaper,seiko's watch is quiet cheap. these watch sell for four or five hundreds bc they need to pay the distrubuter. not everyone buy watch every single day
Dozens of Seiko counterfeits masquerade as real but are sold as "refurbished" on Ebay so the absence of a mftr warranty won't raise a red flag. Only buy a watch online if it is sold by an AD whose virtual store is an extension of a brick and mortar operation.
The most obvious thing not stated is *the vanity in ppl that causes all of this to begin with.* Somehow ppl have allowed a watch to denote *a persons value,* all while forgetting *it was merely intended to tell us what time it is.*
Too bad they make it a fake and not an homage. For the price with an nh36 in there, it really isn't a bad watch really. But if they had made it a homage it wouldnt be nearly as atrocious.
$70 for the fake, over $500 for the real thing. Both have Seiko movements and for over $430 less than the real thing you can forgive the lower quality, one wonders truly is the faker ripping off or is Seiko. Having thought about a Turtle a while ago I went to my local AD in Vienna and ended up not buying one as I just did not think the quality matched the price being asked! I would not bother with the fake either, just get one of the lower priced Seiko 5’s that came out recently with identical build quality and no screw down crown as in truth, the depth rating on those will be more than enough to swim with.
I have a lot of customers buying them from wish and even Amazon, some of them don't hack, even though the moment is a nh36. Another issue I noticed is the waterproofing is a dead give away, one customer brought one in, after he washes his hands it was soaked, I cleaned it out and gave it back to him and it seems like the water was coming in through the crown
There are a lot of genuine replacing / spare parts out there, even the cases can be bought, a new bezel insert is also no problem and I am not mentioning all the mods and the parts for them... Only the purchase of a specific dial sometimes can be a bit tricky. It was only the questions of time when Seiko will have to deal with not only mod but fakes also. As a Seikopath you also has to be aware of so called "Franken-Watches" older models with newer genuine part... There is so much to tell about...
They did it because if they made a full on recreation for 1k then why buy the real recreation? This is just a reinterpretation and people can choose turtles s thid
I have four watches by Steeldive which for the most part make homage dive watches of early designs mostly Seiko,all utilise the NH35 movement.All of them have a beat error of about 1.1 to 1.3,it would be interesting to see you strip that fake and see how much that rather large beat error can be corrected.I am happy with the steeldive version of the old Seiko 6105 turtle which is of a very good standard,especially when you see what the originals are selling for..............................
Thank you for the brilliant explanation. I thought some of the Turtle deals were too good to be true. I feel satisfied that I bought mine from a local Seiko Dealer 👍😎
As a PADI certified Rescue Diver and Emergency Oxygen Provider, I was tempted to buy the Seiko PADI watch... but ended up not.. Most divers never wear a 'dive watch' while diving. We use dive computers. The wearing of a dive watch is more to show your interest in diving while above water, than to time ones dive.
Thank you, Mark, for this detailed comparison. Clearly, there's no honor in supporting the fake product industry but videos like these are critical for alerting consumers to the sophisticated tactics of counterfeit peddlers. Buying a fake for the sake of exposing its fake-ness is worthwhile education. I fully agree with your final assessment that it's the consumer's responsibility to recognize deceptive marketing, suspect the deals that are "too good to be true" and understand that you probably aren't the lucky one who found an honest seller willing to unload a brand new $500 Prospex for $75. If one believes that a genuine Prospex can be sold new for $75, then one must also believe that the labor and materials to build it could not have exceeded about $30 --a ridiculous conclusion that forms the "suspension of reality" that counterfeit peddlers count on to grow their business. Wonderful work, as always!
Using robotic assembly? Considering you can buy a NH36 for under $40 therefore with everyone in that chain making profit they probably cost Seiko a few dollars to make. Each robot installing one piece per second according to Seiko so a watch might only be taking minutes. Maybe if Seiko actually used some of their lower midrange movements in watches under $1000 or so, better materials and tightened up QC so misaligned parts were far less common the copies or homages would have a harder time selling?
I bought one couple weeks ago for about USD100, and the seller had been honest telling me that this one is fitted with a NH36 and is aiming at ripping off people who wants to buy real thing really cheap and normal price of this turtle will be around USD200.. Here in Taiwan the street price of SEIKO is about 70% MSRP, and one can find those cheap turtles and skxs for the price of 40-50% MSRP must be fake, but the sad thing is you will never know whats inside the knock-offs and they often come with clone MIYOTA movements, so this turtle is quite special. The down side of this turtle is bezel is secured with octagonal wire spring and the action is awful, poor lume and groomy rim of the indice, rest of the watch is ok for it's price range, especially with a NH36 inside which is much more accurate out of box than my turtles.
Obviously not. Just remember you are giving your Money to thieves at best. And every time you look at your wrist you know it´s not what it tries to look like. If you don´t want to spend the asking price for a Gen (no matter of which Company) buy an hommage but don´t reward criminals and buy a Fake.
Well, yes and no, right? The Fakio appears to have a genuine Seiko movement. Is it a new one? Doubt it. Is the case sealed properly? Are the hands correctly set? Will the crown tube strip? Yeah, the fake is certainly worse, but with a legit movement, if it was babied an unsuspecting owners might not know if was fake for years, or until a service, or dive.
Amazing demonstration, thanks. I am afraid to check my watch now... And my suspicions have been confirmed: I got burned with a fake, not too great either.
I bought one of those Feikos for about USD 100 at an Ali sale event. The fit and finish of mine is considerably better than yours, but it still has the green tint and the NH36 on the dial. The crown on mine is much cleaner, and the date is better aligned in the date window. The bezel clicks in 1/2 minute steps, quite precise and it's red up to the 20 min marker. Most importantly, the watch is quite accurate at about +10s / day, and it's watertight. No issue taking it into the pool for a swim, or under the shower. Overall, I quite enjoy this watch, having worn it daily for the past several months. I also have a real Prospex, but there is a certain morbid pleasure in wearing a fake one that actually has a real Seiko movement.
So, leaving aside the inexcusable attempt to pass this watch off as the genuine item, is this watch worth $70? If you could not afford the genuine item would this be a good deal as long as you knew it was fake? Seems like the differences were mainly in the quality of the details, but the basic watch was decent. Of course there are several of the "homage" watches that are better featured in the same price range available online, so that is probably the way to go. Otherwise we encourage the out and out crooks in the industry to try to pass off more fakes as the general article. What's your opinion?
I don't understand who make fake of SEIKO, because as I am a Chinese, myself also owning a SEIKO dive watch but people around are all think SEIKO products only worth 20$. And nowadays even in China, we sale great copy of famous watches like rolex, omega around 700$ (for a fake one!!!), who gonna produce fake SEIKO that even a REAL one is also about the price around 700$.
