Fallout: New Vegas' Independent Ending Isn't What You Think 

not going to lie. my first ending when i played was independent and my conclusion purely when i got to the end at 14 was “i got shot and made it everyone’s problem”

The "Yes man" assertiveness thing has been confirmed by the devs to be a system so he only listens to you, not any random that walks in. They admit the wording was wonky.

4:55 I believe that a developer clarified that the more "assertive" line is meant to say that Yes Man will change his programing so that he only follows you. As opposed to his original programing, where he served any random person who walked up to him. 18:21 what if you completed the quest to wipe out those Powder Gangers?

The only problem you seemed to bring up was there being raiders. Ironically the perfect situation for my level 48 murder hobo courier to be put to use.

We all low key know the true ending is that the courier leads the tunnelers into the Mojave Thanks for those likes and comments chooms. But hear me out now, what about a Frank Horrigan sized tunneler. Say one ate something it shouldn’t have, anyway. Be safe out there 🤙🏻

The fact that we can all argue about this with good points on all sides so many years later shows what a phenomenal game this was.

Im pretty sure its supposed to seem like a grey/nuetral ending but you also mirror the rise of the Legion under edward before he becomes Caesar.

Tbh I think the independent ending should go differently depending on your character's skill, like having high intelligence, charisma and only killing the "bad" people (ie Fiends) will net you a more stable ending. But if you go full Jason and slaughter everyone and/or have a low skill and therefor don't know how to leader, the ending will be chaos.

Best to keep in mind that freeside becomes “one of the more stable” areas, doesn’t mean it’s exactly stable.

Maybe it’s bad for you but I’m built different.

None of the settlements were really being defended by the NCR. An army of upgraded Securitrons might be a better option.

I dont really agree with the take that yes man making himself more assertive immediately means they will betray you somehow.

I’m pretty sure it’s yes man programming himself to only listen the courier

Good video, but problem is that he consider mainly the worst or the neutral scenarios. Endings in Fallout NV take in high consideration the actions of the Courier, and the Independent ending would be better if your pc decide to eliminate the powder gangers and the fiends for example.

I think of independent as meaning free of rule from tyrants, but the courier still leads vegas. If you have good karma, and upgrade the securitron army, then there's less chaos and more peace, and vegas is free from oppression and the courier rules it as an independent faction. At least that's how I read it.

We're making the mother of all omelettes here jack you cant fret over every egg

NCR: corrupt goverment Mr. House: dictator that only cares for vegas İndependant: anarchy and chaos Legion: slavery Every ending in the game has its flaws there is no black or white just gray some are just less gray than others

Sawyer said that the code snippets yes man dialogue was to say he wouldnt be taking orders from just anybody, just the courier and probably whoever the courier deems fit to order yes man

You can make independent new vegas a good ending if you help the right people

Always felt there was supposed to be more to this ending but was cut down due to time constraints seeing as you can talk to the followers about setting up medical care after you take over

I feel like this misses the point of the independent ending. The fun of the ending is creating a head-cannon on what happens after. It can be both the best and worst ending, it all depends what you think comes next

Would be interesting to see your take on the other endings

9:52 I don't think that's a good proof for the post-ending situation of an independent Mojave. Veronica wanted to leave it all behind after some fanatic paladins razed a Followers outpost because they thought she was going to betray the Brotherhood by giving away their secrets. Even though those paladins got what they deserved, nothing was preventing another fanatic group from that fanatic faction from repeating the same atrocities with anyone she associated with, so she leaves the Mojave to seek a new life out of the Brotherhood's reach. Why does she stay in the Mojave in a NCR ending with a NCR-Brotherhood truce? The NCR offers a counter-balance to the Brotherhood's might, so they aren't free to commit any wanton atrocity and they remain content with the surface patrols seizing any bit of military technology travelers would have.

2:35 that's only if you don't upgrade the Securitrons. That's not a definitive part of this ending unlike, say, House killing all of the Kings and BOS or NCR causing Goodsprings to become a ghosttown,

There's been a lot of argueing against the independent route, but the beauty of Fallout or the Elder Scrolls is often how people can debate the finer points of what faction is 'right' and there is usually something to be said for all viewpoints. The game does not explicitly say so itself what is better or worse and allows the player to fill in the gaps. That said, there is a lot in this video I would counter. Some of the points raised against independent Vegas are outcomes that the player can avoid by just putting in the work. The powder gangers at the correctional facility can be eliminated, quite easily, by the Courier. With help from the NCR even, resulting in them not being a factor causing instability. Same story with the Fiends. Collect all the bounties, and then decapitate them by killing Motor Runner, and their reign of terror is completely avoided. The Brotherhood of Steel is a different story, as I prefer the paragon route of allying them with the NCR, which leads to the ending where they harass travellers. But that is the ending slide not taking into account player actions after the end. Because the Courier can sit down with McNamara for a polite chat to tell him to knock that shit off. Between the securitron army, overloading the fusion reactor of Hidden Valley, and killing the whole chapter the hard way, you have the power to stop them if they won't listen. Really the only reason I don't do so as House would have is out of sympathy for Veronica and the belief that preventive strikes are immoral. One way or another, the Brotherhood aren't going to be a threat. Yes, there are still other gangs who might fill the gap, but you do control a securitron army. The ambitious nation-builder can have them uphold the law along the route to Mojave Outpost and clear away these threats. And the main settlements along the highways can join the state of New Vegas. With the Three Families, you could come to an understanding that the change in management won't affect the contract they signed with Mr. House. Cachino, Swank and Marjorie will turn in a share of the casino's profits as a tax, and this means the Courier has a sizeable budget throught which to finance improvements. Again, the ending makes no assumptions about player actions towards the Followers of the Apocalypse, but even just a tiny fraction of the earnings of only one casino will go a long way towards alleviating the burders on Mormon Fort. Allowing the followers to hire doctors, buy medicine, run additional schooling and training programs. They could, instead, flourish in the Mojave in a way they haven't in the NCR since their government decided their pacifism was a nuisance. Likewise, the Courier could establish ties with the Crimson Caravan to help pick up the slack in the chaotic few months following the Second Battle for Hoover Dam. They help maintain trade links with the NCR and there remains plenty of commerce in an independent New Vegas to make it worthwhile. Especially if you help the one Boomer get in touch with the Crimson Caravan employee, they'll have an exclusive inroad with the gradually changing Boomers at Nellis. From the DLC, there is also the Happy Trails caravan company, who in the White Leg extermination path succeed in re-establishing their ties with the New Canaanites, helping New Vegas become the link to another peaceful and stable society. And then there is the unquantifiable potential of Big Mountain's Think Tank working for the Courier, whose inventions can be of value to the Mojave when curated by the Courier. Yes, this is a lot of headcanon. But as stated in the beginning, this is not exactly something that New Vegas discourages. Only a new entry in the series set in the area could canonically overwrite that. And it doesn't look like we'll see another Fallout title for some time. But even more than ten years later, there is plenty of New Vegas for the community to imagine.

The game's director, Joshua Sawyer confirmed that Yes Man reprogramming himself was to prevent others from controlling him, giving Courier complete control over Yes Man. I would like to address your other points, but I don't want to sit here for awhile. I recommend doing more research for your future videos.

I knew all of this. All of us do. But at least General Oliver got thrown off the dam!

I've said it before on other videos and on other posts but basically my ideal ending isy courier ruling an independent New Vegas city state. You put people in the three families who you have gotten power so they are loyal to you. Yes Man handles the securitron and Vegas defenses for you. I extend my rule to outer Vegas I build up freesdie, west side and north Vegas. I keep the kings identity but turn them into an actual well trained militia force. I basically make the west side milita stronger same with Jules and Crandon in north Vegas. Everyone still has freedom and my protection. The followers are invested in heavily and I allow them to use any and all tech to better people's lives. I extend my reach to Novac and good springs but I know NCR are assholes so I have to let them have primm at least. I also invite the enclave remnants to train an actual new Vegas defense force to supplement my securitron army. I need the chairman and omertas to focus on their own casinos I'll build a new human force to fight with my robot army. I still maintain my alliance with the boomers and even invite Ulysses to what could be a possible nation he could be proud of. And with guarantee to protect Jacobs town mutants can also have a place to live without fear there. I even slowly incorporate tech from the big mt to better my defenses and medial care done the right way now though since the scientist at big Mt are sick fucks. And the main thing my courier actually stays he or she doesn't just leave and let everything descend into chaos. But it's my ideal ending and it doesn't happen that way so it's just my own head canon and not real canon

This is my favorite ending to the game because the needs of me outweigh the needs of everyone else

The independent route is also very limiting in scope. You can't take the place of Mr. House literally (by being put in his machine that gave him longevity). You can't give the Mojave to any one other faction like the Brotherhood, Followers, or any other party. This is kinda the only problem I have with New Vegas. You can only kill factions, you can't really replace them though, more specifically the three casinos. Plus the DLC adds in a lot of technology and access to game breaking mechanics that could change the wasteland forever. Such as the Sierra Madre vending machines, all the Big MT scientists and tech, trading with New Cannon along with the Utah tribes, the MREs, cloning eyebots, and commissary terminals from lonesome road. Man, I really wished they had like 4 years to make New Vegas. I donno if all the people who worked on the og Fallout 1 and 2 are still at any one place together, but they should really throw a pitch at Microsoft.

Nice to see you still making nv content after all this time

I agree that no gods or kings is one of the least favourable options, but at the same time this is a post nuclear war world so.... nothing is ideal or less chaotic but it's a good idea to talk about. I agree as well that why would a courier become the leader?

The greatness of the independent Vegas route is that the power of how successful the route has depends on how much and how well the Courier sets up New Vegas for success, albeit with the understanding some will not be to the courier's liking regardless, particularly Freeside. However, I would argue the Courier is not the leader at the end of the day. Goodsprings, Novac, Primm, the Boomers, Freeside, New Vegas, the Great Khans, the raider leaders, Powder gangers, and the 3 families will control themselves and separate from each other(provided the Courier did not destroy them entirely), leaving the outcomes as the consequences of those actions. If the Courier was leading, he could make those changes by themself, similar to the Broken Steel DLC of Fallout 3.

3:42 It says that "Chaos became uncertainty, than acceptance with minimal loss of life." Meaning there was initially chaos, then confusion about the new status quo, then acceptance of the new way of things in the Mojave. It does not say that there was "acceptance of chaos."

Oh dear...that was my favorite ending. I knew the Courier's "reign" wasn't perfect, couldn't possibly benefit literally everyone. My Courier has a good heart, but she knows she can't save everyone. 💔

i think you saw the freeside resolution backwards ps: ok, after watching to the end , i think you should take a deeper look into the concept of old world blues and what it means to let go

the independent ending is only as bad as you make it

I love how everyone thinks Yes Man will turn on the player even though it's been specifically debunked by devs but continually regurgitate Mr. House's grandiose plans of sending humans into space like it's an infallible holy gospel despite the fact that we have no concrete way of knowing whether something like that is even feasible for him or if he'll live long enough to accomplish it. Ever consider the fact that you just got sold a false bill of goods by a used car salesman?

I mean the courier can Become the leader of Big MT and send armies of Robot dogs and robot scorpions into the mojave to secure its borders and reinforce the Protectrons at the Dam.

Imagine talking for 27 minutes about independence and never once mentioning a people's right to self-determination. People want an independent New Vegas in the game, and it will hurt in the short term (independence almost always causes this IRL) but that's not really relevant. Stability does not justify tyranny. Several independent towns facing threats to trade came together to form the NCR in the first place, with a lot less resources than the Mojave has.

Remember Remember the 5th of November, Gunpowder, Treason and Plot I see no reason why Gunpowder Treason, should ever be forgot.

It was independent before you got there. House is the only moral choice.

All of this fails to take into account that the Courier has access to resources and tech from Big MT and the Sierra Madre, Hover Dam and it's electricity, and a literal army of upgraded securitrons. My own Courier, Nadine, went to a lot of trouble to get everyone else on board, and she would not just sit back and let everything fall apart after the fact. Forcing the NCR out of the Mojave as an invading force doesn't mean she wouldn't maintain diplomatic ties. The Courier doesn't have to directly rule to have influence over the Mojave. Yes, it's only headcanon, but the ending slides fail to take a lot of the DLC content, or how some completionist would do things. Then there's the part where if things get too bad, the Courier gets directly involved, and at the end of the game and all the DLC, the Courier can literally accomplish anything they set their mind to.

I like to think of my independent courier and the securitrons are like Nate/Nora and the minutemen. They’re not in control but they can definitely help out in the area

NV was the first game to make me realize maybe the bos wasn’t so great

"According to Mr House, Mr House is the best faction."

Great start to my work shift!

Anarchy? No, you don't understand. I make the money man, i rule the nickels, the game is mine.. i deal the cards.

You forgot the part where you can get an ending slideshow where almost every character narrates their own death

personally i think it's a missed opportunity that even with the army, the game ending slides treat it like there'd still be complete chaos and anarchy in the wasteland, same as when the army is destroyed. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unless the game is implying that the Courier would only concentrate his forces in the Strip and surrounding areas, which would make some sense... but then when Mr. HOUSE wins, he sends his army to take basically the whole Mojave, when he has just as if not even more connection to just the Strip than the Courier. Like, he takes control of both Goodsprings , Primm, etc from the NCR even though his focus is just the strip. His plan was to stay in his free economic zone and be partners with the NCR, while the power hungry Courier in the independent route would definitely be more opposed to the NCR, and more inclined to take more of the wasteland. I still like the endings of course, and New Vegas writing as a whole, but just a few missed opportunities.

Of course there will be no order in the imminent aftermath of Hoover Dam, but this didn't mean that the Mojave will remain a lawless region forever and that something can't be done by both the communities of the Mojave and the Courier.

Even the larger factions like NCR struggled against raiders like The Fiends so a weaker smaller independent New Vegas seems like they’d fair even worse. That’s why I always felt that as totalitarian as NCR can be they still offer more security than the other options.

luv the content. one thing on this one tho - the quest "Volare' " is voe-LAW-ray, not voe-LAIR. thanks for the vids!

Very good video! Nice job

This vids falls apart to the fact the u can make the independent ending good if you just help the right ppl and factions, you relied on the idea of the player just making a bunch of bad choices.

This is the canon ending

We have the option to tell the General that Vegas is ours. So depending on dialogue the Courier can rule Vegas and make it better. "The Dam is won. For me." and "The Republic has outstayed it's welcome. This land is mine."

It’s basically halting all progress towards civilization. The other 3 endings at least offer a path forward for some people. The independent ending is basically dooming everyone in the long run with indefinite uncertainty

Is that Ron pearlman

Yes-Man literally can't betray you, as in "is unable to". Also, the Courier is essentially Mr. House, just worldlier and not a giant shrivelled up posh douche, who knows the Mojave and what it needs, has a inner circle of the Wastelands best and brightest, also he got an army of beefed up robots who trounced both the NCR and the Legion and controls Helios-1 as well as Hoover dam.

Hey does anyone know the quickest way to get out of quarry junction? I'm stuck in a trailer surrounded by 4 deathclaws.

3:56 I think you are not interpreting that right. It doesn’t say chaos becomes a way of life. It says chaos is replaced with uncertainty, then acceptance. So the chaos goes away. And independent doesn’t mean what you say after that. It means not under the control of another nation. Vegas under House would also be independent in that sense. The reason it is the Independent Ending is that your character does it independent of the big powers, not that Vegas is left with no rulership. Indeed the fact that the ending describes the Yes Man and the securitrons being used to bring order really directly implies the Courier taking power.

Hey the norts can you do a video about the upcoming fallout remaster and your thoughts and if it’s true?

I will never forget how gutted I felt after completing my first playthrough and getting to the slides, just to be told how my "independent" New Vegas basically turned to crap, despite doing as many of the side missions and affinity quests as I could and trying to be benevolent. You make a good point that I hadn't considered in all these years. The fact that the Courier doesn't become the de-facto ruler had not even been considered by teenage self. Looking back, I don't think I've ever finished a playthrough to the battle of Hoover Dam since. 🤔

AHH a new N_orte video

I want to know, every time that i finish the game, i repeat the final mission?

10:00 She said she was leaving the Mojave to get away from bad memories, no where in there did it say the area was terrible

More N_orte more serotonin ❤❤

So basically, worst to best endings are: Legion, Independent, NCR, House. As the big main factions since I don’t see any evidence that you can side with Benny since the last time I saw that being a possibility he led you into a trap to die so yeah.

My personal head canon independent ending is my courier completed quests for the Boomers/Great Kahn’s/BOS/The Kings/FOA and other towns too. Soon they aided the Courier in his new nation keeping order and helping it thrive.

I remember completing No Gods, No Masters on my first playthrough in Highschool. My character was a fast talking, business savvy "Messiah," so I expected to bring a new order of freedom and security to Vegas. I remember when I got those slides, and feeling so... empty and melancholic to hear that my efforts to bring freedom to everyone didn't really help anything. Made things worse in most places, with only a few factions doing good, and only by their standards. It didn't feel like the win I envisioned. But gosh darn it, I'll do it again! No Gods, No Masters, baby!

There might be already vid but we need to have one about why Fallout New Vegas was hated so much in the first release but as 13 years later is regarded as classic and still popular game

Honestly the only reason I mostly go NCR is bc its really the best ending for my ACTUAL favorite faction, the followers

I think something people overlook is that nobody rules alone. There has never been a sizable government ruling over a large group of people without some kind of support. Both the NCR and Legion have instituions supporting their rule and their government in one way or another. House gets away since he's only really focuses on NV and can concentrate force with his robot army but even he still has the three houses essentially ruling under him as supporting institutions. An independent courier is not guaranteed to have that level of support from anyone other than yesman. Even if the courier has the best intentions, its impossible for them to rule alone but if they start leaning on other people, they may invite people with more selfish motivations. Sure, the courier could do everything in game and create a Player Autocracy, but in the universe that cant last forever

I would imagine there would be some similarities between the ending and DUST

Of course it's not sunshine and rainbows; it's sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows

Always felt going fully independent wasnt the best ending. Yeah, free from House, NCR and Legion, but managing an entire region like the Mojave was never mentioned in the independent ending. Vegas is fine yeah, but at least House would've sent more securitrons to manage the far off settlements from Vegas. Idk why the courier doesn't in theirs

I stand with Mr. House, he's the only one with a set plan for Humanity's renewal. 100 years and we'll be in spaceships, NCR can't even plan ahead 100 days.

I have the bell on and didnt get notified. Bummer

Do you think the brotherhood uses Archimedes against the strip? If they had the ability they wouldn't allow people to have securitron armies

It's excatly what I think it is. My courier has a 5,894 IQ!

I think it's a good point that this path does not mean courier's rule, many people tend to forget that. However, I don't feel like it's fair to compare this ending with others as to how it is best or worse for the mojave. The point of this ending is not to make things better for anyone, it's about giving everyone the freedom to thrive or die by their own hand. The mojave is free. In other endings, you have to see if the sacrifice of freedom is worth for the results on peoples' lives. This is not the case here. Nevertheless, congrats on taking the time to bring up all consequences.

Why call House by his middle name? Damn, I thought I was into deep lore, yet I didn’t know House’s middle name was Edwin

Another good video keep it up🎉🎉🥳

We all know the true good ending is the courier WIPING THE SLATE CLEAN

Seems like yes man fans don’t understand the concept of a power vacuum, when you rid the powers of a region it creates the opportunity for any and every power structure to take hold given the lack of barriers to entry, an independent Vegas will not be independent for long, even in the inhospitable east of the Colorado, Caesar rose to power in a world where trade wasn’t possible a mile up the road because of the lawlessness and danger, if it’s possible to rise to power there, someone will find a way to rise in independent Vegas, you’re essentially willing to risk something worse than Caesar, House, and NCR, all because you’re too fixated on being a fence sitter, by ridding the three major choices from vegas, you’re ruling out any potential for order and prosperity, regardless of the negatives that come with it

I don't get why you link independence with chaos. With an upgraded securiton army, it's made clear that chaos was very brief and people quickly accepted the new status quo. It's only with a bad karma courier that chaos reigns. Obsidian clarified that the upgrade to yes man was to make him listen only to the Courier, not to any passerby. The mojave wasteland was always lawless though. Of course an independent New Vegas wouldn't have the ressources of the NCR or the legion, and it would be slow going in the start but the courier could definitely expand out to the Mojave wasteland. With the correct decisions in New Vegas, he'd already started with forging good relations with different communities who'd probably willingly join. Or at least trade. Goodsprings thrives in independent New Vegas for example. The independent ending or NCR is the best ending for New Vegas. House's vision for a future civilization is a soulless casino as the foundations for it.

"Based purely on head canons" well, more like Shoulder Cannons...

Im currently going through again while watching the show and Im trying independent for the first time Im trying to kill the legion, House, Powder Gangers, and ofc the BoS then maybe NCR but kinda want to keep all the small factions happy and other settlements kinda getting to rule but wanna try to screw the NCR without out right offing the faction since they do help a lot it seems with keeping order

I trust the robit

Well, what if you got rid of the factions that cause he others trouble?

There are never any perfect solutions in Fallout, but some are better than others. That's one of the things I love about the franchise, and probably the hardest to come to grips with. It's the choices we make in game and the consequences of those decisions that intrigue me. It's improbable that a choice is going to be as binary as "good" or "bad." Most of the choices we make IRL are either bad or worse, or on rare occasion between good and better. Fallout simply reflects that reality, but in a world turned upside down, and where morality and ethics are often supremely inconvenient in the face of your in game goals. Overall, this was a pretty good video. I can tell a lot of thought and work went into it. Thanks.

My thoughts for why I always choose independence: the game's major theme is all about learning from history and how all these groups are just making the same mistakes as the ones they take after. So independent Vegas means that the Courier could rally all the resources of New Vegas towards something new. Something like what Ulysses saw in the Divide and its people.

20:40 Oh, oh, oh, I know this one. It's the independent ending, y'know the: "New Vegas assumed it's position as an independent power," part of the already answered who has power now power vacuum question you're posing. Maybe direct statements are confusing sometimes I guess.

I always wanted to split between Independent and NCR: Use the Securitron army to force the NCR to negotiate better terms for joining. We're a semi-autonomous region, we get priority on the power and water, etc. Make it a win-win for both sides, the NCR still gets something but doesn't take everything.

I want to see your take on each ending, its implications/effect on each faction in NV. NCR, Legion, House, etc..

The main issue with the independent path is that it was cut down as much as Ceasar's legion, if not more so.

So while this is more or less head cannon, the endings dont take into account the courier's greatest strengths - Speech and Networking. They're on the ground level, meeting common folk from Goodsprings to Jacobstown and making alliances with all of the factions. If the courier is given an upgraded Securitron army, they would easily be able to hold New Vegas. Move the Kings and the Followers of the apocalypse into the Lucky 38 and you have plenty of space for a makeshift hospital til the fires die down. Add to that, The Boomers who clearly are masters of defense. Throw in some old world tech knowledge via the Followers of the Apocalypse and to a limited degree the BoS (they dont share too good lol). On top of that, if you wipe out motor runner and the other fiend leaders that cancels out the major raider issue. Lastly, not only can the courier make allegiances with Jacobstown but also potentially Black mountain if you fix up Rhonda. Also, the Great Khans and the Enclave remnants are there too, but im sure the courier could figure out how to utilize them. If the courier can get all these factions to show up for a war, they could do the same to make a council. And this is just the Vanilla games! If the courier has access to the tech from Big MT and the Sierra Madre, that's a huge game changer! Zion adds a potential trade route to the north as well as a relatively untouched area to expand. And most important of all. Lonesome road just straight up says "want some nukes, heres some nukes" if you can talk Ulysses down. Sure sure the courier is but one person, but they've already started the game with a bullet in the head, and have the potential to go mostly cyborg by the end so i feel like they're gonna be around long enough to set up a government if they really wanna lol

My first playthrough in 2010, first time ever playing fallout, I got the independent ending lol. All the groups hated me and I only had yesman.

Perfect timing I got a 40min drive to make