Fatmagic: Guilty or Innocent? [TF2 Hacker Police] 

*UPD: The "Nitro cheat" chat message is now CONFIRMED to be fake.* The person faking the message confessed themselves that it had been faked intentionally. Venusian knew it was fake from the beginning, yet he decided to use false evidence in his video: media.discordapp.net/attachments/988018375659769898/1019559475658625044/12312313223.PNG As for other clips, the cheaters that worked with Venusian *have agreed on being wrong about their claims.* Almost all the clips were gathered by a person named JadedRoses, who has accepted the fact that their evidence has been debunked by this video. DISCORD: discord.gg/EMZhDXV TWITCH: twitch.tv/vorobey69

Fatmagic isn't a cheater. He's much worse: A player who's perfected playing sniper to the point it makes playing on any map with open spaces a pure nightmare to play on.

For the longest time, I'd always thought that Valve should port the Overwatch system that they use in CS:GO (a volunteer program where regular players can watch demos of reported matches and vote on whether they think the person is cheating or not - with enough convictions awarding them with a matchmaking ban) over to TF2 for our community to use to mitigate the uselessness of VAC. But after seeing how many people actually believe that Fatmagic is cheating, I've changed my mind. Way too many TF2 players have no idea how this game actually works for an Overwatch system to be effective. Anyone who has played for more than a few hundred hours should be able to recognize that hit registration in TF2 is garbage, and slightly offset crosshair placement should honestly never be used as concrete evidence for cheating. But apparently not. Appreciate the amount of work that went into this video. Also, it's worth noting that just because a cheater confirms an accusation when it's not based on cheating software functionality, it doesn't mean much. The majority of cheaters simply don't play TF2 the way it's intended to be played. I was once accused by a long-time cheater of using Silent Aim because they saw a clip where I did damage when my crosshair was not on a player. What they failed to see was that my sentry gun was doing the damage. Cheaters cheat because they are bad at the game. So they are not exactly the best source of information when it comes to the functionality of TF2. Not to mention, most of them never pass up an opportunity for a few scraps of attention on RU-vid. Something to keep in mind.

Cheaters: "Fatmagic hacks, we have proofs!" Valve's Hitreg: "The fuck you don't."

That clip where VR accuses Fatmagic of wallhacks is especially stupid since that's a common goddamn sniper position. Fatmagic didn't even need to see him a few seconds earlier, there's spots where you always half expect a sniper to be and can preaim accordingly. Hell it's not even just a common sniper spot, it's a common spot for people to be in general when the cart is in that area.

So now that this video is out, I would love to give an actual response to any potential questions anyone may have about any of the clips. I will start with some questions I get asked the most - Why did you not respond to the initial evidence? Because the evidence is laughable, shows no knowledge of the game or basic fps mechanics, and was created by a joke of a personality human being, so I did not want to feed into dumb drama or converse with an idiot You however, I would love to discuss literally anything you think is suspicious by me and actually have a real conversation about it! Whether it be here or over a call, or even in a vid idk Your video is well researched, knowledgeable and I appreciate you covering this. (Though I think it''s funny that you said you were researching me before the allegations haha) - Why was your aim better before? The reason I am rustier now is because I don't play as much as I used to. When I was in highschool and working at Domino's, I could easily log 80+ hours /2weeks. Now that this is my job, my time is split between Editing, Recording, playing other classes, Life stuff etc. In fact, there was a time where I only logged 15 hrs in 2 weeks for several months straight. (Though I am adding an aiming regimen to my schedule to make sure that not only do I get back to how I was, but get even better. I talk about it in some of my vids. I would like to go professional one day) Stay tuned for some sick games coming up on the channel! Also all the triggerbot evidence I see is either me wanting to line up a shot for an assured kill, charging up dmg for a shot, or just being indecisive

Shameless attention seekers don’t understand that there always will be a person can debunk their hoaxes. Awesome job, Voro.

It's obvious that he isn't a cheater because he's always happy in his videos. Cheaters are sad angry people, they wouldn't shine the genuine joy that Fatmagic does

People also like to forget that the average 15 minute gameplay video is made from multiple hours of footage with the fun parts cherry picked. And fatmagic doesn't even cherry pick _that_ much either, half of his videos are him _missing_ these crazy flicks.

I ran into VenusianRapper in casual yesterday. Was playing spy and got a couple nice trickstabs. He would use the bind "bad paste" whenever he killed me. I was really confused bc I still don't get what that means, and because I hadn't even killed him that game, much less pulled any trickstabs on him; I even failed easy stabs on him several times. The moment I got autobalanced to his team, he said in VC "go get 'em with your autobackstab". I didn't know it was him until I read his profile. Seems like he just likes to randomly accuse people.

Even if Fartmagic does end up cheating, Venushawn's case was so flawed that it might end up aiding Fatmagic if ever because of how sloppy, unreliable, and far fetched the "evidence" is.

I have also successfully debunked that you don't have a real moustache, confess Vorobey.

12:39 God forbid you pre-aim in a _very well known_ choke point on the map. People like this are just ridiculous.

One of the things that annoyed me the most with this guy's original video accusing Fat Magic of cheating is the ending to it when he cited the fable of Icarus. Out of everything, it was the most annoying because it perfectly summarized the rest of his video: excessive fart huffing while thinking he knows more than he actual does. If he wanted to do real research, he should've started by looking up "confirmation bias" and "Dunning-Kruger."

this whole drama is like the biggest compliment to a gamer i envy fatmagic

In conclusion, he mains sniper. I like this video.

Like you said at 10:37, that clip from the Vorobey guy was pretty suspicious. You should do a hacker police episode on him

venusian did expose someone tho. not fatmagic. venusian exposed an entire underground of clowns that search up dirt on legit good players to make them look like cheaters meanwhile secretly washing their hands off from their actual cheating garbage. 10/10 fun video!

Another great video Markiplier!

People are still trying to defend Venusian, when he HIMESELF fled the community after being demolished by facts and logic? I mean damn, didn’t think this many people had -100 IQ.

I'm a staff member on a TF2 server. I can say with certainty that Venusian doesn't know the first thing about detecting a cheater. In his final hard evidence section where he shows the snap, I would have thought "Wow, that's suspicious and looked liked cheats!" but I wouldn't ban based on one clip like that, no good staff member would unless it is blatant enough, which this clip isn't. What you should look for when spectating a suspected cheater is consistent patterns, if that snap happened over and over, it would be a lot more suspicious, but you can see in the clip that right after the flick shot, he goes to shoot someone else and MISSES THE SHOT. Looking at one clip out of a single play session isn't enough to determine someone a cheater most of the time, and slapping these suspicious clips from several sessions together and saying "Look he's cheating!" is disingenuous and misleading.

As someone with over 5000 hours in TF2 and multiple years of competitive play in 6v6 and 9v9, my leaning in this debate is that Fatmagic doesn't cheat. As a captain of a team it's my job to not only spectate my own team but also watch match reviews and gameplay of the opposing teams. I've seen, what I thought at the time was, some sketchy sniping, but as I continued to gain experience in the game and also learning more about FPS, sever delay, lag compensation, and frame rates, a lot of "sketchy" behavior can come down to the desynch between those issues, and also issues with the server as well as how things are seen in spectate. While I think it's good to keep an open mind, I'd still cast my vote in support of Fatmagic not using any sort of hack, but I'm also open to the possibility of it seeing as the lines of a really good sniper and someone using a hack can be blurred fairly easily.

I keep laughing at the fact that pre-aiming places where you KNOW snipers are going to be means that it HAS to be walls, especially that FatMagic was in a sniper fight at that moment Bravo venusian you really showed us back then bravo

Its crazy to remember that venusianrapper destroyed himself just because lf terrible evidence for fatmagic

Venusian and his fans will surely go: "we were just pretending lmao baited we did it"

I love how in terms of Vorobey's lore, he treats it like Officer Vorobski and Vorobey are two separate people, which makes it all the more entertaining to watch

triggerbot seems like the only valid accusation for fatmagic, but it can also apply to any professional player of any game since you know when you're going to click more than anyone else does

I love how Vorobey doesn't DEFEND Fatmagic, he just DISPROVES the lame hackusation. Love you voro keep it up.

Well put together Lot better than my vid tbh

I never actually once accused Fatmagic to be a cheater of any kind, some people are just built differently than others and unfortunately, its not uncommon to have rare talent be called a bluff by people who cant or wont strive that far.

"The Fatmagic cheats" video started the biggest butterfly effect in the whole TF2 community

Fatmagic ran over my dog on his unicycle and yelled out at me admitting he cheats in tf2. It’s so sad we let this behavior go unpunished in our community 😢

Another point for 12:36. This is literally the most common spot for snipers on 2nd point. Even questioning ESP here is weird unless the red sniper was hiding in the platform on the right next to the track and he pre aimed that without his team even shooting there or seeing it on a kill cam.

I love how half of the people accusing him of cheating have either cheated themselves, or are working with cheaters, it's so ironic lmaoooo

Waiting for the; "Hur dur 0-5 im winning" response video from the "totallynotapedo" venusian.

from what i saw as well it looks like the charge meter refreshes faster then the ammo count making it easy to see the frame or frames around where the shot was taken meaning that if the sniper firing has any noticeable charge meter you can identify by when the charge meter resets to confirm when the shot was taken

Finally a video that goes into details of how the game works! And also with an "answer" to the drama: Fatmagic could be using triggerbot but there is no concrete evidence of him cheating so under the premise "Innocent until proven guilty " he is innocent. Though with how triggerbot works unfortunately any good sniper can be suspected for using it. Despite the fact that both FM and Vorobey talk very poorly about cheaters there is still a possibility that they are using triggerbot as it is extremely hard to notice especially for an average viewer like myself. Thank you for the investigation. Looking forward to the next video on VenusianRapper!

I was on the side of fatmagic not being a cheater because his gameplay first looks real and in general has a good aim even when not aiming on heads specifically and even good sound/placement knowledge so I was very confident that fatmagic was not cheating. Now that I know about the client vs server hit registration, I'm even more convinced he isn't cheating. However I can never be 100% sure he isn't cheating because it's really hard to compare a cheater using a triggerbot and a player that spent years improving his aim like you said. I guess the only way you can 100% prove he isn't cheating is driving to his mountain house surrounded by foxes and watch him play without him knowing. When he is done recording, you break his window pin him on the ground and scan his computer for any traces of used cheats clients. Now you have to run away because when he is angry, he will melee crit you.

"The greatest award that you can give a Sniper Main is not of upmost praise and adoration, but of a server vac ban for cheating" *_-Sun Tzu, The Art of Sniper_*

as tobey maguire would say, I was looking through some old videos and yours look very.. similar.. nah jk cool stuff broski, keep it up

I was on the fence about the whole thing, I wasn't sure, actually I was even leaning slightly towards fatmagic cheating, but your research and video in general were amazing and objective. Great work man, truly. It makes no difference to me, I don't even watch fatmagic's content, but it sucks to have your name dragged through the mud like that. Officer Vorobsky never misses his mark it seems.

its so obvious that he was just charging his rifle in the "triggerbot" clips. All those clips include a kunai spy with hp particles around him. Means he probably won't die from a quickscope.

Fatmagic should take it as a compliment that he's genuinely so good that people don't believe a human being is physically capable of doing what he does.

The wall aimbot is literally just flicking and accidentally aiming directly on a player. How many hours does fatmagic have on tf2? Grab 100 hours of video footage from anyone, even a noob (that actually tries), and you would see this happening a handful of times.

It took an hour and fifteen minutes to accuse Fatmagic of cheating. This video is just twenty-eight minutes, and it does better at *actually explaining shit* than both of Venusian’s videos

I’ve been a big fan of fatmagic for a long time, the guy just chills out and has fun but is actually very decent at the game. Just let him make his content, it’s so funny and he’s genuinely good at tf2. Good vid man I’m agreeing with all u saying

Смотреть твои расследования - одно удовольствие! Благодарю, что подходишь к делу настолько по-мастерски :)

I think the worst part about their video is the cringe ace attorney music like that somehow makes his points seem stronger lol

This is quite honestly the best way to tell someone their good at TF2

So the Fatmagic aim drama is basically still up in the air when it comes to a definitive answer, but in the process we've got some *much* more spicy drama with Venusian coming up.

Fatmagic is a piece of cake himself to begin with, that's what is more infuriating, the guy just plays the game and have fun, didn't even tryhard, didn't even insult, in every single video he chokes laughing and that's the realness i feel from him, one person that after years of playing still enjoying the game. Cheaters just enjoy cheating, they doesn't enjoy the game, and it's an error calling them "Hackers", hackers are the ones behind the coding of the software used by the cheaters, this ones are just some boring ass persons who only wants to ruin the game experience to others, and that isn't the vibe get from fatmagic, in fact, if you watch half a video you'll see the exact opposite. Thank you for making this video voro, that moustache looks sexy on you btw.

Yes Fatmagic Cheats, According to Fatmagic lore, he has aimbot installed in his blood with the aid of eating donairs. the only difference its a hardware cheat instead of lmaobox or nullcore

jesus, is vorobey a lawyer or something? this was incredibly well put together

Venusian's the kinda guy where no matter what you say to debunk his claims, he's just gonna turn it around and say that you proved him right. Clips of you shooting for the shoulders and hitting a hs? "Wow you're cheating! More proof for my case" Clips of you landing what should be a perfect hs and missing entirely? "Wow nice silent miss!"

Fatmagic when he headshots: CHEATER Fatmagic when he misses: Triggerbot fail, failed silentaim

Venushawnn came back after privat-ing his YT channel and now plays the "well, actually you see I'm just trolling! haha! fools!" - biggest coping I've seen after his shenanigans backfired.

so i'm just say this, even if VenusianRapper is the worst human on the face of the earth i'll still watch him because it's funny to see a grow man scream about a 15 year old game and how he's smarter then children

I'm surprised that you got so technical and never mentioned shounic. A lot of things you mentioned regarding lag and hitboxes were explained on his channel.

When the whole cheating conversation began, I was really worried because I’ve always liked Fatmagic’s videos. However, after seeing who started it all with that one video, I’ve pretty much dropped it all. Take a look at that guy’s other videos, he’s a veteran winger/complainer.

27:19 "Because oh boy.. Is there more terrible sh#$ that this person has done OH BOY there is more..." Nobody could guess what was this about untill the full story about him came out... Jesus christ, how i didn't see that?

Cant wait for someone to make "is vorobey cheating?"

Shounic does videos on mechanics in tf2, practically laying bare the raw data to do so, and they solidly explain away much if not all of the potential jank in these “fatmagic cheats” clips, just indirectly. But the tick rate and spectator thing is new. Vorobey did a phenomenal job actually doing his research here

I like how they put fucking ace attorney music on like they’re phoenix wright cornering von karma

Looking back, I realize how you and the people helping you really saved fatmagic. If it weren't for y'all I feel like he would've been in a worse situation or even would've leave youtube and VR would've got away with everything he's done. I really respect you Vorobey and how you debunk VR's half-assed claims and we need more people like you to reveal who's the true bad guy. Goated TF2tuber man

I think you just destroyed the accusers ego for a few years. This was very in depth and absolutely enjoyed the education from it.

14:56 Wait really? Holy shit he actually did! I remember seeing a video that showed a lot of clips of people making sniper shots that were very similar to the ones Fatmagic made (he was showing them to say that those kinds of shots are normal for snipers to make) and I very specifically thought "I bet Venusian is gonna double down and start calling all these other people cheaters as well." and he really is starting to do that! He has actually decided that going to war with the TF2 community and just calling every TF2ber who plays sniper a cheater is a better option then admitting he doesn't understand the game's fundamental mechanics.

This video aged like fine wine

Venusian Rapper has been quiet since this dropped

I also flick like a madman sometimes and it can look like if I was cheating. Also hitboxes are so freaking weird and lag compensation... You cannot say if someone's cheating just by watching footage, the best way to tell if someone is cheating is playing against him. It's so ez to know that way...

Remember guys, fatmagic: has gf venusian: lost his gf instant win

I think the reason Fatmagic's crosshair does a snap in the "for fatmagic's fans" clip is because spectator cameras use wider grids than actual gameplay (a grid is something servers use to determine where sniper scopes and the crosshair should be, it's more noticeable if you set your mouse sensitivity extremely high, go too high and the grid is so wide the only places you can look are directly up and directly down)

Hello @Vorobey! An additional point to the spy on the roof is that hitboxes (from what I know, though I'm not 100%) become extremely janky on surfaces like that. In El Maxo's video with 1000 sniper kills and no headshots, the same hitbox bug happens with 2Fort's middle bridge's roof. It seems like a reused asset, leading me to believe the same is happening there as well.

looks like i was manipulated, thank you for bringing me back from delusion

It's clear now. Muselk absolutely cheats.

I feel like one small thing worth noting since I've been watching fatmagic for a while is that in his older videos, when he just uploaded clips of his match without saying a word, he landed more headshots. He started missing more after he started talking, and you can even see in some of his newer ones that he has better aim during sections where he doesn't talk, because it lets him focus more on the match than being entertaining. If he truly was aimbotting, even using a bad one that intentionally misses sometimes to be less suspicious, it should be consistent throughout.

“Fat magic is cheating!”: 🤓 He can aim: 🗿

I always wonder what people enjoy about playing a video game with hacks... I just cannot imagine.

There’s a difference between exposing and just straight up attacking. People really do need to go out and touch grass, sometimes.

holy shit he knows what hes talking about

Vorobey watched better call saul

vorobey being the judge we need

Glad somebody else realized how aggressive and manipulative Ven was being. And it wasnt just to the audience, but the people supposed to be backing him up too

By the way, in the Geometry Dash community, 60hz frame perfects are considered easy and can get consistent quickly. The human limit is much higher than this, and multiple people have even done 32 consecutive 240hz frame perfects in a single attempt. If the question is about the human limit, 60hz frame perfects don't even scratch the surface. It's easy to do 60hz ones once you get the muscle memory down, and I'm sure it's no different with TF2.

Даже я, овощ с тремя сотнями часов на снайпере делаю периодически такие же действия и выстрелы, за которые fatmagic'а обвинили. Мне иногда кажется, что люди в порыве за хайпом не могут трезво оценить действия противника и понять, что это самые, что ни на есть, легитные действия. С упрёка за ESP я вообще выпал. Играю на 2fort в течение 5-6-ти лет и я могу из любой точки карты нацелиться по памяти так, чтобы смотреть на какую-нибудь позицию, где по-любому может оказаться случайный игрок (просто потому что заучил за столько лет каждый угол карты). Плюсом подозрения на silent aim - игра настолько иногда рандомная и лагучая, что не может прямое попадание в голову зарегать, а иногда может и вовсе зарегать попадание туда, куда его не было (просто воля рандома и удачного случая).

Bruh I thought this knowledge about TF2 lag compensation and weird bullet holes and wounds on player model were common knowledge. What did these geniuses start playing yesterday?

Seems like these accusers haven't played enough sniper and spy to truly understand the ancient phrase "Tf2 hit reg"

I’m honestly glad you posted this video cause there’s this closet cheater I busted that even uploaded RU-vid videos to try and cover him, but if you watch them, you watch particle sparks appear in areas that he completely misses, but then completely locks onto their heads and it kills them. It’s hilarious how obvious he is but then tries to hide it and this video of you demonstrating hacks vs legitimacy with Fatmagic completely busted him, so Ty very much man!

Late or not, it’s good that you covered this, I feel like you took a more netural approach (as in other bias) which makes me happy, god bless you vorobey.

Hey, I wanna let you know that after not playing the game since 2018, your video of pistol engineer appeared in my feed couple of weeks ago and since that day, not only I subscribed to your channel, I also redownloaded the game, so thank you. Edit : Im godawfull now lol but I managed to tilt a sniper main by using Sydney Sleeper

Voro is the #1 Russian TF2 youtuber ever to me, absolutely love these videos, can't wait for more of these in the future

Vorobey, you are by far the TF2 god (next to shounic). But seriously you really are. Even me, someone who slightly understands the TF2 source leaks but doesn't know everything about the game, you have taught me a lot. Even the smallest things in this game, went unrecognized by me until now. Thank you for this. Also, I'm a huge Fatmagic fan and I was kinda 50/50, and not even because of this "evidence". Just my own observations and being in a few matches with him. We all get accused of cheating. Sometimes I think I'm cheating when I get stupid flickshots, but in the end, it's broken TF2 code lol Have a great day!

Bro I have gotten so many headshots I know I didn't deserve it's insane. Tf2 is old and the hit boxes are wacky. There are countless clips where Fatmagic could have made the shot and misses and there are also clips where he's baffled he even made some shots too. Fatmagic is just good at the game and this dude is so mad at that fact, he put together a patchy ass "investigation" to prove his point and came out making his accusations look even worse He definitely got dominated by the boss baby in a match and wanted revenge

All the accusations depended on tf2 not being made out of spaghetti and duct tape

What made me realise that VenusianRapper is talking bs is that clip with the spy where FatMagic scored a headshot even though his aim was no where near the head because it reminded me of one section in How it Feels to Play Sniper by Lazy Purple where he scored a headshot on someone but because of how fast his mouse was, the immediate frames before and after the shot wasn’t even on his target.

I love how cheaters think they know when someone is cheating just because they cheated, like bro, you're using a cheat client because you suck at the game, all you do is play on casual, never touched competitive. You can't differentiate a good player vs a cheater because you don't know how what it's like to be good at something 💀💀💀💀

Let's keep in mind he also streamed himself playing and played sniper LIVE lmao

I don't know enough words to describe how much I like Vorobey's content

The fact he had to get 3 videos of "definitive proof"

Man, I love this video, the edit, the comedy and the explanation about how cheating works in TF2 makes this video awesome!!!

Cheating or not , Sniper in general is just absolutely broken in the right hands.