Let me know what Fear and Hunger topics you would like me to cover next! Patreon: patreon.com/user?u=108511195 Tiktok: @ luckyleftie Instagram: @ thefourthsaluki
Imagine how shocking it would be to recruit a party member, then find what you think is their doppelgänger, fight it, then realise the one you’re fighting is the one with the normal face meaning your party member is the fake one
That would actually be a very good gameplay opportunity for the game dev. Maybe step above Maso, Maso+ mode, introducing doppelgänger and more in party/combat gameplay
Another reason for why Levi's doppelganger rushes towards and fights the player immediately is because it's mimicing a soldier. Killing something on sight is what it thinks it's meant to do. Somewhat similar to Olivia's, it knows Levi is a soldier (I assume because of his uniform and other contestants calling him such), but doesn't exactly understand the concept. As for Tanaka, well the poor guy does have the habit of getting into a lot of fights, so his doppelganger just thinks that's what Tanaka does. Makes me think, if the real Tanaka dies and his doppelganger lives on, will it be more out going and stand up for itself than the real Tanaka; misunderstanding the person it's mimicing? I find the doppelgangers to be a very interesting if random and underutilised part of the game, and thus appreciate your great video on them! However I'm not sure if I'd want more to be added in the future. For the most part, I think those who get doppelgangers plays into their themes. Levi is attempting to abandone his past as a soldier, and his doppelganger reduces him into nothing more than one. Olivia craves to be seen as her own person; escape her sister's shadow and be recognised beyond her condition. Her doppelganger is a mockery of her individuality by claiming that being a botanist is her condition. I think even Karin's doppelganger plays into her worrying about being nothing but a vulture as it lacks individuality, instead reporting on the gruesome events around it. Apologies for the theorising, your video just made me think a lot on an aspect of the game I've mostky overlooked until now!
I mean if that's the case it also replicated his heroin addiction, imagine having the sensation of withdrawals but having no means of acquiring the thing needed to calm it down.
@@tuckernutter Yeesh yeah that's terrifying to think about actually. It would see Levi go through withdrawals and just assume that it has to be through constant mental and physical turmoil. I wonder if that's why it's arm is so messed up too? It's twisted, fleshy arm is it attempting to replicate all of the holes and marks in Levi's arms, but obviously it doesn't have heroin to accurately replicate them.
Could the doppelgangers be an explanation as to why the festival isn't more widely known? The doppelgangers slide into the lives of everyone involved as one final trick from Rher.
It's likely not a trick from Rher, Rancid attributes the Dopplegangers to some unnamed force trying to fix things in the universe that are 'broken' because of the Termina festival, missing contestants being one of them.
Yes but not from Rher and not for that reason, Doppelgängers with our current understanding are the creation of logic in a primitive state and their job is to tale the place of the dead people as a way to cure the world, they are weird and scary and all that only because logic was far from being completed when they were made and when logic is completed the plan is likely scrapped because humanity got “saved” in a whole other way
I really like Marina's doppelganger because it takes advantage of the fact that it's a video game. I recruited her in the bookshop (or ig technically the church) and then came back and my first thought was "oh pfft- they forgot to remove npc Marina" and then I went up and talked to her to see if I could trigger her recruit again and then the Marina in my party responded to it sort of yanking me back into immersion and recontextualizing "haha software gore" to "haha... that's not my friend..." It's honestly pretty cool even if I'm sure it's existence was spawned from a bug being turned into a feature.
As one the testers of early alpha builds, I can tell you that the doppelgangers were a long running gag even before they were actually a thing. There were many instances in the alpha versions, where the game's logic would break or wouldn't work properly resulting in 'characters duplication'. For example, you could recruit Marina and yet find her in the book shop. Or as another example, recruit O'sa, but still find him sitting on streets near church. Noteworthy that we kinda asked Miro before if he would consider doing the false characters of sorts. And so during the early testing phase we started the joke in testers' chat that those bugs were actually an evil "doppelgangers", and I think it was the final straw that made Miro actually grow on this idea. And it was, indeed, a very elegant way to add new intriguing elements to the game, while not crushing and combating the logic of the game a lot. In case you wonder - almost all encouters, except for Olivia I think, were actually originally bugs. But a lot more duplication occasions were fixed promptly. Hope this was an interesting bit of knowledge. And yeah the phrase - "it's not a bug, it's a feature", is actually has proven times over to be ever right on spot :D
There's so many ways Miro can do with this. From Marina's B ending, from what is assumed to be Samarie's doppelganger, the majority of them just seem to want to fit in society for an unknown reason. I just think it would be cool to see a shy, non-confrontational Caligura, or a bad-mannered August just out of nowhere.
Imagine o'saaz's doppelganger, i would like to see o'saaz doppelganger going full wrestling or chaos magic on you because it doesn't fully know how to use magic
From what we know they are actually born from logic and their role is to fit in society to “fill” the whole that termina victims left, they exist because logic wants to save the world and this is her primordial way to do so, ofcourse when they were created she was far from complete and once is complete their role is now useless but they were an initial attempt
one consideration is that the doppelgangers are actually part of the the contestant, similar to how becoming a new god splits you in half, its possible as the contestants loose humanity their doppelgangers gain it
If I remember correctly, doesn't Rancid imply that the Doppelgängers are the result of nature/the world/order trying to reestablish balance after the Cult of Sulfur start misappropriating Rher's power?
The Doppelgangers are kind of victims too. They didn't choose this to begin with, they seem to act out of instinct and as they learn from the people they mimick, the more human they become. Eventually, they either forget their origins or decide to keep it a secret to mantain some level of normalcy in their lives.
@@ogeday6069those are another kind of doppelgangers not fear and hunger's. Fah doppelgangers sole purpose is to replace the main person if they die or get moon scorched . They were created by nature and don't tend to hurt humans normally unless they misunderstand the person they are replicating or they are attacked
@@Opposing__fists hmm you're right. But i think if a doppelganger mimics a bad person, i guess we could say that dome of them could be bad. Just like humans.
@@ogeday6069 yea they would act just like them For example if that bullshit criminal who turns into a ballsack has a doppelganger, he will be equally bullshit
I was literally talking about how I wanted this concept to be expanded on yesterday, I’d love for more of them and for them to actually be tough to figure out as a new player, like a Samerie doppelgänger that acts like a normal person who’s not obsessed with Marina, cuz the few we have are too obvious imo
Given that the Doppelgangers' physical forms are based on their observations of their target, and that Olivia's cut Doppelganger misunderstands her wheelchair as being a physical part of her body... Marina's Doppelganger probably made some incorrect assumptions about her anatomy. And I think it would be interesting if Olivia's cut Doppelganger was added back as being a version of it that appears on later days. To go with the concept of them becoming more human as they observe their target.
I genuinely doubt the Doppelgangers have any idea of human anatomy at all. They're probably just mimicking the physical appearance of the outside, with no knowledge of the inside, and hence would have misplaced organs, genitals, etc.
i kind of hope this is something Miro expands upon as he brings Termina closer to being content-complete, if not by adding more then by giving us more information on them
I think the origin of the doppelganger is Ma'havre from F&H 1 In the Chambers of torment we can find identical "empty" husks and can make one ourself to progress the game without killing a party member. We also learn that Nashar wants those husks to have a new body to inhabit, and we learn through Darces S ending that she finds and brings the finished formula for a rebirth to resurrect Legarde... He probably used those K owledges to create doppelganger for his twisted gains at the festival
I first ran into both Levi and Olivia's doppelgangers right after I had both of them in my party killed by enemies. There was a solid chunk of my runtime where I assumed that doppelgangers spawn when you recruit a contestant and then they die, so you can still harvest their heads. Like I thought there were doppelgangers for all of the playable characters, lol.
First one I encountered was marina in library after u ask her to join goto church with open party slot she joins and you go back to where u first talked to her in the library
A thing to note, Marina's doppelganger isn't possible if you're playing as Marina. I did play as Marina and never once saw her doppelganger in the location it's supposed to spawn
i've never played termina myself, so i didn't know that you had to kill samarie to get marina's B ending. i thought that samarie continuing to stalk marina even after the events of termina was just a funny part of the story. now that i know it's a doppelganger it makes it super creepy.
There was once an old Spanish story I read about a boy with a strange mental condition. He was obsessed with putting things in his mouth and biting people, to the point where his parents would say things like "why are you doing that? You act like a dog moreso than a child" making the boy ask himself what he even was. So naturally, the boy decided to seek out the dogs in the alley so that he could study them. Eventually, the parents misunderstood his studying for a desire to have a dog, so they bought him one, ending in the boy skinning the dog and wearing it's fur. While I don't remember the name of this story, it was under my impression that perhaps the mimics were born with a desire, and so they sought out living people who already had those desires, in a way. Its more likely than not that this is not the case, but when I met these creatures in the game, they briefly reminded me of that story.
Wake up babe, new Lucky video just dropped!! Honestly, I am so desperate to see the doppelgänger concept expanded on. My favorite is Olivia's as of right now: seeing her running around the forest is so unbelievably jarring, and especially as someone disabled, seeing her reaction to her own doppelgänger who could walk freely was heartbreaking.
Wow..This one is incredible, too! I’m going to watch all of your fear&and hunger videos now (tbh I already planned to do that but I didn’t plan on doing that at this very moment 😜)
absolutely amazed you have only three videos on fear and hunger ! theyre so well crafted and erudite youd think youd been making them as long as all the other F+H creators on here! what kind of topics are you gonna cover next?
Levi's doppleganger also acts as an introduction to them and he's more likely the first one you will find, basically letting the player know that there's copies of the participants somewhere
This is why Us is my favorite horror film of all time. The monster we should fear most often doesn’t have gnashing or otherworldly features. They most often have our own faces.
Heh, youtube algorithm noticed me enjoying your previous few F&H videos and suggested me this video only 12 minutes after it was posted. Anyway, another great explanation!
One thing I noticed is all the dopplegangers are of the youngest contestants, I'm not sure how old Tanaka is though. So if the dopplegangers were looking or created to replace the killed contestants, it's picking the ones that are easily replaceable and no one would really bat an eye at if they were a little different. Children and people with lot's of fear naturally won't survive the festival so it wouldn't surprise me if there was entity in Termina that took advantage of that.
Here is an idea. The contestants are no longer part of the world. The ritual removes them. Leaving person shaped holes. These holes are the dopplegangers. They are empty shapes of the person who used to fill that spot. This is why they are imperfect mimics. They have yet to fill the void within them with substance enough to do more than guess at what the person they are filling in for are like. It is even possible after the ritual is complete that the dopplegangers will be able to fill themselves with the essence of the fallen so they become that person in truth. But until the ritual completes these are nothing more than distorted reflections of real people. An idea cast adrift.
Taking this a step further. What if this is how Raer 'perfects' humanity. The ugly lie is striped clean and all that is left after the doppelganger is finished is the 'truth under'
So how do we know that anyone we come across or interact with isn't just a Doppelganger from an earlier instance of Termina? Such as Father Domek, Needles, the Woodsman etc.
The only things Doppelgängers say that's not imitated is "I swallow you whole" and "I scratch your eyes out". So I assume they have a level of intelligence and are malicious
I wonder if the present dauplegangers were made earlier because Rhers remains/sulfur took the most interest on their internal trauma. Like treasuring the before and after... rhers books keep saying he hates humans and brings their internal parts out along with sulfur currupting/changing his followers and sacrifices... did Miro ever say who their fave contestant was?
Its debatable as to whether the broadcast is Karin's mimic or if it's Logic making the broadcast. Especially considering its unclear how a mimic would even be able to transmit the broadcast to that television. Overall though this is a really well put together video and cool theory.
Huh, Logic broadcasting actually makes sense, since she's capable of creating holograms which lead the player to the telectroscopes. And since the broadcast is helpful, she might be trying to help the contestants, so that they can get the effigy
Is left to their own devices, this duplicates can seamlessly integrate into their counterpart’s lives. Does that mean they’re legitimately living beings? If they can become indistinguishable from the real thing, does that give them a right to life like the originals?
You say they replace the constestants so they can have their lives and nobody is wise to the fact the originals got missing, but that seems counter productive. Having the OG missing and people finding out will lead MORE people to Prehevil and thus the festival will restart again, as many times its needed to find that one candidate Perkele needs. I dont see how making sure people dont come to investigate its a good idea.
Only one point I disagree on : Samarie in Marina’s B ending could be a ghost. We know ghosts exist in this universe and Marina can never seem to find the person who photobombs her. While Doppelgängers are quick, I doubt they’re quick enough to escape Marina after most photobombs. Still, great vid, as the doppelgänger speculation is also a very plausible explanation ^_^
Wait doesn’t this implie that all of the villagers and individuals in the city have doppelgänger versions then is this how the festival can still happen even in a more modern world
Hello lucky, I love your analysis of games, however, your microphone seems to be misconfigured. When you speak, mostly at the end of words, it is capturing your breath and creating a high pitched squeaky noise, this is very unpleasant to hear for people with auditory sensitivity and is causing me a headache when I watch your videos. To fix this you need to go into your recording software and find your pitch limiter config, a noise gate filter would also work. If you use OBS, lowering the volume bars of your voice could be a last resort solution, but that is going to make you quieter as a whole, and that's not needed. Fixing this will improve viewing experience tenfold, I assure you 😊
Doppelgangers existed before they had purpose. Miro accidentally made duplicates of the player models that just kind of walk around and rather than patch them he made them enemies. This is All Bones told me this
I'm curious if they were refugees not of the war but of Ragnvaldr's massacre of the beasts of old. It's possible the village was their chance to acclimate and hide in human society taking advantage of the infrastructure in place but being thwarted by the appearance of the moon god. With the god being a bringer of truth the doppelgangers most likely saw continued habitation impossible and are now jumping ship taking new already-established identities to forgo the issue of attaining sanctuary without papers.
First Levi had to deal with the hell of the pure titans. Then putting a stop to Eren who flattened 80% of the world. Just to end dealing with a doppelgänger. Bro can’t catch a break
Honestly, considering all the Doppelgängers we see are violent, I don’t think the Karin television recording or Samarie in Marina’s B ending are necessarily doppelgängers at all. Why would the Karin doppelgänger know and be willing to give encrypted hints to whomever is listening? Karen is a war journalist, the Doppelgänger is doing a pretty shitty job if it’s covering months old domestic news from a town Karin has never been to before (although, the doppelgängers are dumb) I’ve heard before an alternate explanation of Logic, who would have the motive to drive the contestants to find the effigies (and thus closer to her), and who works through technology, may be controlling the television. And for Samarie, why is the doppelgänger not killing Marina the first chance it gets? Assumedly because Marina genuinely pays so little mind to Samarie that she doesn’t realize this Samarie is supposedly a doppelgänger, but I don’t buy that she would seamlessly slot into place. None of the doppelgängers do. They’re all underbaked. I don’t have an alternative explanation for Samarie, though. But I don’t think that means writing off all the other characteristics of Doppelgängers we’ve been shown and imagining that this one specially is 100% flawless and also non-violent because the possibility of Samarie just being weird like that hasn’t been considered. And Samarie really is weird. She was experimented on and had her lifespan significantly shortened, she knows multiple spells including a spell you only get access to after beating the game, she is both extremely knowledgeable on magic and unable to realize she didn’t actually kill Marina’s father, she moonscorches as early as Afternoon 1 but will follow Marina around far after that point- I’d be shocked if whatever the people in the Vatican did to her didn’t somehow resurrect her, honestly. Not saying they totally aren’t both doppelgängers, but it’s definitely not set in-stone
