female idols fighting against unfair standards 

there are many more issues i could have touched on in this video, and more context might be needed to explain certain difficult concepts, but it was getting too long so i cut certain parts.. but in the future I might make a second part. we will see

didn't blackpink express that they WANTED to help in music production? i think there are less self produced ggs bc companies DONT LET THEM produce

"It goes to show that male idols have more freedom to speak out against the patriarchy than female diols" Just the irony of that is enough to tell you everything you need to know.

Videos like these make me think of Sulli. A child star criticized for everything. Being too fat, not dancing hard enough. Being in the group, not being in the group. Dating, wearing clothes, going out. Literally everything she did was picked apart. Someone so bright, empathetic, funny, and extremely talented gone far too soon.

Thank you for this. As someone who's more of a gg person, this was spot on. The fact that someone like Shindong from Super Junior can be a bigger dude but demean plus size female idols is wild to me, and a reflection of what these girls must go through everyday. I would love more entertainment companies founded by women - i don't think it would change the beauty standards or high expectations placed on them, but it would be a start.

Literally what happened to Kyla and is happening to Jiwoo makes me sick to my stomach. They are literally children and are still growing and must be already so self conscious. Everyone is at that age and idk I just can’t imagine how they feel.

And then you make a valid point about misogyny & some dumba$$ hits you with the "stop making everything about gender" or "it's not about gender" line

12:14 Preach! It annoys me so much when bg stans say “they’re so funny for a gg” or “the dance is so difficult for a gg”! Nowadays 4th gen is changing this sentiment but people used to say this all the time a few years ago

15:06 A little more context on that: a LOT of Korean men in their 20s are anti-feminist (over 72% of them vote conservative). Boygroups, if they *are* feminist (which imo is rare) are praised for it bc their fans are mostly women who also support feminism. If you look at the An San controversy during the Olympic Games (the article 15:14 is referring to), women were calling her cool and inspiring while men were calling her a man-hater simply for rocking a short haircut.

15:54 during the entirety of girls planet 999, i couldn't possibly escape from hundreds upon hundreds of people constantly commenting on yujin's age. someone uninvested in the story would've though that the girl in question is in her 60s and physically unable to dance as well as the other trainees, but no...she was twenty fucking five lmao. i truly hate people sometimes

Blackpink have missing writing credits in their discography. Jennie and Jisoo were never credited for Stay, Lisa was never credited for AIIYL and who knows what else they might have worked on but weren't allowed to disclose 👀 I swear to God, YG is one of the shadiest companies. Everything Blackpink related is literally a horror story. Jisoo telling us they are constantly being observed, Jennie's writing journal going missing, Lisa getting scammed out of money and the ridiculous rule of not being allowed to drive 💀

I love the video, I just wanted to add that misogynist is so normalized in Korea, that some of the nasty comments towards a female idols image are from women themselves, as a feminist as well, I found that depressing

I often feel bad for idols who make it big as kids, because you most likely cannot tell the difference between people who genuinely want to get to know you vs the ones who just want a part of your fame. Or at least once in their lives someone will do this to them. I once wanted to become big on a stage but looking back and figuring things out, I would not regret the decisions I've made to look away from it all. So much is wrong and while I think I could shoulder it for a bit, it's not my lifestyle to live that way.

12:15 The amount of backhanded compliments Everglow got during First era. Like does it kill you to just say they are talented,the song is hard to perform and they did a good job?

When EPEX got a lightstick... I gave C9 the biggest side eye ever. Like WOW! cignature can't even get an album???

Both Korean presidential candidates focused on young male voters for their campaign - the president voted in stated he wanted to abolish the Ministry for Equality and Family Planning because it didn't do enough for SA victims - as if that couldn't be improved on without abolishing it. His other comments about women were unpleasant too. There is a history of misogyny in government and a huge increase in popular culture, particularly within the 4chan equivalent communes in Korea gaining popularity. Its a cultural issue, government issue, kpop issue - nation wide. In anticipation of a at least one reply being 'X country is worse' or 'your county is probably just as bad' - yes, all countries have something to work on, but this video is specifically about Korea and K-Pop - you can discuss more than one thing and hold multiple views about those topics.

female idols also get kicked out of the industry for becoming mothers (Yulhee from Laboum Kahi from After School Sunye from Wonder Girls etc.) but Pick-me boy group stans would bring up the "hate" surrounding male idols like Chen from EXO and Bobby from iKON for becoming fathers just to piggyback off the double standards against female idols (when the "hate" surrounding them is justified)

Soyeon is the one who want to break the stereotypes with her songs.

I think it needs to be said out loud so we can really feel how bad this is: I have a feeling that Grown MEN are the primary target market of girl groups. Us teenagers-young adults are only targeted as secondary consumers - as sheep meant to buy things (that arent music/direct merch) promoted by the ggs so we can get closer as “ideal” females in the eyes of men. 😢

THIS needs to be watched by every kpop fan omg I wish it would get like 1 million views! This topic is so important and your video was so well made and informative! Thank you for uploading it! As mainly a girl group stan and especially someone whose favorite idol is Jennie, it's extremely disturbing how female idols get treated...

Bruh people called Boa a hag cause she is in her 30s.....I remember how happy i was to see someone who is more mature then the young age girl groups we see today (not that im againts younger girls or boys debuting) and still preforming and writing songs.I loved her comeback CAMO. In that comeback she remind of an empress that is smart,experience and beautiful ,exulting respect everywhere she walks in.I also like how the older idols have more serious and mature topics they touch on in there songs. @felt Hello,Im another random person who is happy to find your channel today and how mature and well compsed your videos are.It remind me of my highscool days where i would sit with my friend on a bench and talk about kpop and movies.I watched like 5 vidoes of yours today and i cant stop,because its just so interesting and nice to listen and ponder over the topics you talk about. Wish you to have a good day ^-^

I'm really happy you mentioned the producing/writing music aspect, bg stans really love that "your faves can't pick up a pen" argument, especially directed towards BP, when female idols have expressed multiple times they WANT to produce or write but they're just not allowed to. Case in point, Jennie and Rosé have both written, produced, AND composed music, Lisa and Jisoo have also written lyrics (and not gotten credited), and yet, recently, Jennie and Rosé's collab with Ryan Tedder and all the music they worked on got scrapped by YG. At this stage in their career the biggest gg in the world is still not allowed to freely work on music, so what's left for smaller ggs? It's so ugly to go "haha women can't write, they're not real musicians" just to defend their oppas.

Such a well prepared, complex video! Thanks for talking about this important topic. Even if ggs are the ones carrrying the industry nowdays the problems still haven't disappeared ps. I would love to see more female producers in kpop

Agree so hard. The only reason 7 year old girls are selected to train as idols is because of the push on visuals. The female idol has to be very skinny and maintain a fresh youthful look or else nasty comments will be attatched to her back for the rest of her damn life. And that type of thinking doesn't follow male idols. Of course they have to endure strict standards too but it makes me so upset how the most harsh and most impossible ones are being thrown onto female idols

I worry for idols who debut so young. I feel like BoA and Seohyun ended up well, but how will others fare?

this video needs to go viral! i hate how people have been ganging up on jennie for years now - even after what happened with sulli (bless her

This is kinda like why I like Lesserafim and Newjeans cause mostly women enjoy them. But everything else it's correct. The kpop industry is inherently exploitative in general and it cannot be reformed under capitalism

everything you said FACTS im so sick of toxic bg stans and their superiority complex shitting on female idols

Omg!! I really wish there would be older female idols. I want someone more mature, who I can really look up to. I want someone who feels relatable, but also wiser. I really like when female idols still perform in their 30s. Honestly, I hate that Sm still gives RedVelvet extremely childish songs with almost no meaning behind them.

now i get why despite girl groups having a stable fandom , agencies will cast them aside once they've reached their peak :'( its so unfair

Kpop stans & Pledis ruined Pristin. Also on the topic of female idols producers, a lot of them are being told that their efforts are not good enough (just ask Yeri), and the ones who produced is because without them their groups would fall apart bcz of the mismanagement BS of their companies (Soyeon had to learn composing cuz I-dle debut was taken forever)

thank you for not letting the internet forget about Eddies video about Kyla

Why can’t they just say they like little girls and go.

so i'm a second gen stan and don't follow any 4th gen, but i am baffle to see the comment under woonyoung and yuna post. Any things they do get a lot of hate. i never saw such huge among of hate. Calling them "pick me" when they sing alone in a rom? like do you know the definition of a "pick me"??!!! All the hate about their body, is just an easy hate wagon they can jump on. i'm so tired and realy start to get angry such young women can't do a thing without being mocked and called name, by other women who are jealous. i really expected 4th gen stan to be more evolved since they always talk about inclusivity and body positivity but turn out they spit all their good intention once someone rub them the wrong way, using the most mysoginitic and sexist insult....

I remember when I first discovered fromis_9 I thought they were one of the most visual groups I've ever seen. I was unaware at the time that they were formed from the survival show, Idol School. When I researched Idol School and learned "the only requirement" was to be pretty and that was the overarching theme of the show it all made sense. BTW this is not hate to fromis_9 as they are one of my favorite groups, but it just shows how companies view female idols.

thank you for speaking on the mysoginy. instead of it getting better for women is getting even worse than it was 5 years ago, it baffles me

This is such an apt video. The double standards cannot be rationalised or justified. It pains me to see young girls forced to mold themselves into the version that the audience prefers. The whole process of training is mentally scarring and takes a toll on the future health of the artists. I really respect GGs like Mamamoo, Itzy and solo artists like Sunmi who throw light on to the toxic standards in the industry. It's upsetting that most idols are seen as less of human beings and more of products that the audience consumes. I really wish the industry changes at a grass root level where artists can holistically grow and improve as human beings first and artists second.

You’ve explained something that’s been itching at the back of my brain for ages, thanks. I always wondered exactly why boy groups had less strict standards- now I’ve realised from this video it’s because the majority of their fan base is girls. Unrelated, but I also feel like girls have lower standards in guys, is this just me?

I'm SOO happy Gfriend was in the choreo section 🥺 they're my ult group and seeing their talent and hard work still being recognized is amazing

i throw up a little bit when i hear the words self management

i can't express with words how much i adore your channel. thank you for this type of content, it is really needed in kpop spaces, like the point you made about gg idols being producers. subscribed for sure

I don’t why bg stans get mad someone mentions the double standars on gg and bg

You just verbalised why I have ALWAYS been uneasy about kpop girl groups. I secretly hope that with more international fans, critical thinking open dialogues can increase, from intelligent women chatting about things publicly such as yourself. And that slowly, this can change the landscape. (What is the members of Le Sserafim being scolded about by those men?? They are skinny, young, pretty, and talented?? That scene really put me off!)

you probably won’t see this, but id like to say that you have very quickly become one of my favourite kpop youtubers, if not one of my favourite youtubers full stop! your content is so well researched, i love the depth you go into with the sociology aspects of things and your overall analysis, keep up the great work!

I assume that most if not all STRICTLY bg fans hold sexist, misogynistic views. That whole “Taennie”ordeal is a great example of it.

demonising hyperfeminine idols....

only facts here

Very informative video, I found your channel recently and I really like your content! Thank you for speaking about this important topics that sometimes are overlooked. And yes we should keep protecting and defending our female idols!!

this video was so important and I'm glad i got it in my recommendations, I've become more of a gg stan over the years and i have unfortunately noticed all of that you mentioned, even more than when i was starting to know about kpop, it's so sad female idols have to go through all that and i feel so angry we can't do much other than support them and keep defending them like you said. great video! also i just subscribed, i have watched two more of your videos already, great content as well 🤗

I love the effort you put in for research and trying to cover the most important subjects. Great video.

thank you so much for making this video!!!!

Wow thank you for this video, it has opened my eyes to some many issues

Thank you so much for your content! ♥

I disagree slightly with the comparison between Soojin and Hyunjin, because although I'm sure misogyny impacted their treatment, they're two different companies and Soojin's scandal was also propelled by having her accuser also be a public figure.

Many female idols want to take part in producing their music, but often it's the company that refuses to release those tracks or, as some fans speculate in some cases, don't credit them

The comment about Kyla and then similar comments about Jiwoo make me sad. That they should have to "manage themselves" to fit into the industry. Why? Why should they have to? Why can't they be the ones to change it ? To normalize NORMAL young women's bodies. All bc stubborn gross male fans who objectify women say so?? It's crazy

I appreciate the amount of exid in this ❤

11:55 I'm no dancer, either, but I am a singer who can do a few cute moves. And girl groups having ~simple~ choreography being a drag almost made me cackle for two reasons - 1) back in the olden days of yore, a promotional method for girl groups was having choreography that easy for the average person to emulate and 2) girl group choreography is more dependent on expression than technical skill. Although, don't get it twisted; *the* dancer of K-Pop, BoA, would embarrass all of our male faves. And I would stan every fucking second of it. Sorry Jongin, she's cooler than you~ (The version of Jongin I made up in my mind would agree with me. And then step on me.)

as a (g)i-dle fan since their debut, the soojin situation pisses me off to this day, especially since she was proven innocent. she stood up for herself and never apologized, and I guess the public didn't like seeing a female idol stand her ground. I'm glad the group is doing well now, but her being basically shunned from stepping outside her house is the most unfair

Been loving your videos and this one is no exception. Would love to hear you talk about sexuality in the kpop industry, I feel like that’s such a rich topic that so many of us are insanely passionate about

This so sad, but true

we cant do much , they have to stand up for themselves ,come out against mistreatment, file law suits against exploiters and not allow anyone to overstep their personal boundaries. the voice need to be raised from within for a bigger and permanent change.

Great video! I just want to ask about the academic sources that you listed in the video cause I would love to look through myself to learn more!

This is such an important video

the sad thing is: bgs fangirls ride on this fantasy that the members they adore are not sexist, when the truth, statisticly speaking, is that they probably are. also, bg fanservice is so strong and intense (MUCH more than ggs) that creating this parasocial relationship with fans actually benefits them when it comes to situations like these.

when you mentioned cignature my heart ached 😞

for female idols having short hair eating a strawberry with both hands or crying during award shows doesn't make them "pick-me's" but dating older men does such as former FX member Sulli dating Dynamic Duo member Choiza which went against her views on feminism or IU dating older men as a way for her to go against the "nation's little sister" nickname she was given by the public fans who are defending this need to be educated

Great video 👍

I’m drawing a blank on what the first MV used in this is. It’s the one with the red room. I know I’ve seen it and have looked at everything that I thought it would be. Help!!!!!!!!

Facts

The feminism one annoyed me the most. Feminism is the belief that men and women are EQUAL. If a male is being praised for being a feminist, then a female should too.

fans are saying that older girl groups (Girls' Generation and KARA who recently had comebacks this year) should retire from the industry but have no issue with boy groups being active

What is the song in 1:09 its been driving me nuts that i cannot remember ir

guys cignature's song boyfriend is sooooooooo good please go listen to it

Vraiment un grand merci a la créatrice de cette vidéo moi je suis multiples Stan, je stan des groupe féminine comme masculin et sa fait depuis 3ans que je suis fan de kpop j'en n'est vue des choses dans cet univers musical qui mon beaucoup dégoûtée comme se genre de sujet qu'elle aborde dans sa vidéo, j'ai souvent l'impression que les girls bande doivent fournir des efforts de monstres juste pour pouvoir avoir ne serait-ce qu'une petite place tout sa juste pas ce que se sont des filles ( v qui fait l'erreur de s'abonner au compte de Jennie, Jennie qui na absolument rien demandé va recevoir des tonnes de messages haineuse, un mec qui porte des crop top c'est stylé, magnifique et sexy, mais une fille qui porte ses même crop top c'est une pute une provocatrice une fille qui cherche a tout prix a se faire remarquer , ) vraiment tous ses choses la m'attriste beaucoup et j'espère que les gens vont prendre conscience un jour que c'est du n'importe quoi et que sa doit arrêter

fax no printer

can u give a review to G-idle's Nxde?! I think it's very fitting too✨

OMG YESSSSS!!!! GO READ "KIM JIYOUNG BORN 1982" i hear it's quite good :)

the dating bans should only be put in place since the idols have busy schedules not because idols have to be "available" to fans

off topic but i was jamming to time to love hehe

marina 💗💗

i agree with most of your points. however, i feel that your use of examples in two instances was flawed. 1) blackpink and yg mistreatment example - while in principle, i agree that bp should be allowed to have more opportunities for comebacks and group activity, i feel this is an inadequate example of mistreatment. i feel that the scarcity of comebacks is a deliberate marketing strategy for bp. bp are marketed as these high-end, exclusive idols - evidence is in each of them being brand ambassador for a high fashion brand, absence from more common variety shows, shortage of music show appearances, etc. they are literally designed to be exclusive; that’s their brand image and that’s how they make money. having fewer comebacks obviously supplements this, perhaps even serves as the foundational basis of the marketing strategy. note that other yg groups (i.e. the boy groups) are not marketed in the same way and therefore don’t have the same scarcity of comebacks as bp. 2) the idols expressing support for feminism example was not a good example of misogyny. yes, attacking feminists is inherently misogynistic. and there probably is a gap between male and female idols who express themselves as feminists. the examples you used though, did mot really illustrate this point. this is because of an additional variable you have not considered - culture. scrutiny for feminist idols is often sourced from more conservative cultures (e.g. korean culture) and support for feminist idols is often sourced from more progressive culturse (e.g. western culture). yes, whether the feminist idol in question is male or female will probably affect if they are scrutinised or supported - but your examples didn’t really illustrate this.

One thing that always get on my nerves is, tho i agree with all critic about bp's discography, i don't get why people are so mad about their success. There so many mediocre male artists along the decades that were as or more famous than them, so why can't exist a famale group with mediocre music as well? Like, get out Hope to see more gg and female solo artists rising, with amazing or mediocre music 🖕

9:00 Whenever people say this, I want to fucking scream. Now, more than ever, groups live or die by how well their company treats them. The industry is SO saturated that groups CANNOT just depend on good music, talent, and looks. A group can have great music, be ridiculously talented, and all look like goddesses, and they will still flop because they were drowned out by all the other groups with great music, that are ridiculously talented, all look like goddeses, *and* have a company that actually gives a fuck about them. You wanna see a demonstration of this?! Look no further than LABOUM and Brave Girls. First of all, both groups are Mother^TM. They both have discogs that are top heavy with bopiannas. Stan them!! Anyway, both groups had songs go viral in 2021. The difference?! Brave Entertainment jumped on that and immediately began to wall paper Brave Girls anywhere they could. Gobal H, on the other hand, did nothing. As a result, Brave Girls is everyone's new favorite gg and LABOUM... Still exist. Now, there is a reason why LABOUM didn't start promoting again like Brave Girls did (Global H ain't have no money), but I feel that proves my point more. Journey to Atlantis and Rollin' were always good songs. I was obsessed with both of them when they first dropped and was just as obsessed when they started making waves again. Shit, I was more obsessed because of the memories I had associated with both songs; it felt like reuniting with an old friend. LABOUM deserved the same kind of love that Brave Girls was getting, but they ultimately missed out because of their company. We have all seen comebacks tank faster than my patience for men just beginning to understand that patriarchy is A Thing^TM because their company refused to put any weight behind it. C9/J9/Pussy Pat 9/whoever they fucking are is directly responsible for how terribly cignature is doing. If they gave cignature more love, cignature would definitely be killing the game. Because ASSA?! Bitch... When that chorus hit for the first time, it felt like I had been throwed clear across the room. It hit like a fucking sledgehammer. It was SO GOOD!! cignature has the potential to that AND MORE to the Korean real time charts if C9 could be bothered to actually do the fucking work. Every gg we've seen in the past three years has the potential to do that if their company had the money/power to promote them properly. Contrary to what iheartkpop99 on Twitter says, you don't need to be a million seller to be successful.

omg

Most of what you said is true But I would like you to know that lesserafim has creative freedom.

also, saying "no ggs don't produce music" ummmmm soyeon???? EDIT: I did not mean for this to sound like an argument against the creator of the video, I was directing this towards mysoginsts on the internet

Real question. I know that women in K-pop are shamed for their weight gain. But is there an exception to this? Because Jeonghan from Twice has gained weight and although she faces remarks about her weight. I feel like her band mates and the company are steadfast behind her and support her despite this. Which is great! I’m just curious what others think. Is it because she’s eldest so there is a sense of respect towards her. I only have her as an example because she is the only one I’ve seen be able to do this.

I'll be honest. I would rather say Blackpink are the second biggest band in the world than the biggest girl group. Because that implies that there are male groups other than BTS outselling and outcharting Blackpink which isn't true. Why can't we just directly compare them? Why do we have to separate them by gender like we're in elementary school?

It's a bit unfair to put the blame in one basket alone. Kpop is a product of it's enviroment and reflects the cultural and social norms of korea because the primary market has so far and will for a while be based in korea. The standards are set by both men and women living in it. They do seem archaic to an outsiders point of view certainly and are shifting towards western ideals as of late. But they aren't really all that different on how western equivelants have and in some cases still treat their stars, take disney for example and the huge control they exert on their cast. Ultimately the blame on all of this lies on the customer as the industry as a whole is only providing a product that has proven to be profitable. If the market demanded the artist to be as natural, authentic, outspoken or what ever, that would be exactly what the companies would race to provide. Girl groups being overshadowed by boy groups from the same company is seemingly unfair certainly, until you take a step back and put things in perspective. Which is difficult admitedly as they are people and personalities. But they are also in essence products, and for a business it is natural to favor a product that is more profitable compared to one that isn't as much. And there's no logic in how yg handle their things.. but yeah, the industry does have a lot to improve. But the real reason why things are how they are is because it brings the most revenue, which is controlled by the consumer (comprised of both women and men mind you). Change the demand of the customer and the industry will follow the money.

Wonyoung from IVE isn't a pick-me but Hwasa from Mamamoo is because she went from being a feminist by wearing revealing outfits during live performances and having songs promoting female empowerment to dating a man 12 years older than her the "hate" she's receiving for the relationship is justified since age gap relationships especially in K-Pop are furthering the misogyny nothing is empowering about it especially when fans want to "protect" female idols from older male fans

Wait what so Soojin and Garam are kicked out on false accuse’s but hyunjin can stay ( Which is good but the girls also had to stay)

What is a woman. That’s my question. I have no idea.

When will Hyunjin be free, Lia also was accused and she's still there, blame cube for not standing up for Soojin and she had an actress against her, while Hyunjin there wasn't evidence only a graduation book and Koreans found out that it could be bought

13:37 "a fanbase who can forgive"? Forgive what? Dude was proven innocent. Let it go. (also a lot of knetz outside the fandom unjustifiably hated on him just as much as they did on Soojin.) Bad example (imagine it happens to you and people use the word "forgive" while you were literally innocent) but I get what you wanted to say. I would have used the marihuana scandal by Gdragon vs the "drug" scandal by 2ne1's Park Bom as a better example, cause in that case, GD did indeed smoke it while Bom's substance wasn't even drugs but medicine, yet she got scrutinized more. Or the Hyuna and Dawn scandal. If it were a male popular idol and his secret gf from the same company, they would've never been kicked out.

this is why i find it so hard to support gg's. I don't like the overly feminine typical imagine and music they produce, and that they seem like prisoners in their indutry. i dont want to support the men behind these talented but unfortunate women. It does nothing but push it forward instead of challenge it

The "sponsor" situations certainly victimize female trainees/idols more than male ones. But when it comes to stuff like company rules, scandals, etc., you need to first ask oneself if girl groups and boy groups are actually in the same market before we can say that there is a double standard or that it is unfair. While k-pop acts of either sex are in the same industry, from what you have said in this video, it sounds to me like they are different markets. According to yourself, fans of boy groups are overwhelmingly female, whereas fans of girl groups are more demographically representative. You have also said that boy groups generate more consistent revenue because of the commitment of their fans, but girl groups cannot rely on this. What we have here are two different markets. We have one (boy groups) in which demand is sticky, and one where that is not the case. Because demand for any particular girl group is fluid rather than sticky, the competition in the girl group market will be fiercer, even if there are the same number of groups active at any one time in each market. From this, it stands to reason that female idols need to be "more perfect" than male ones, not because of misogyny, but because of economics - the competition is stiffer, so the product needs to be better. The other economic reality is that while men earn more income than women in aggregate, women spend more than men in aggregate; because the consumer base for the boy group market is overwhelmingly female, the boy group market is more profitable than the girl group one because the former has a more loyal customer base and one that spends more than the latter. This isn't misogyny; it is consumer preference *driven by women.* We can have a discussion about why this is so, but it isn't a result of choices made by the industry; rather, the industry evaluates the preferences of the market and cater to it. Remember, the product the entertainment is selling is the idol, not the music. Decisions about how to make the product most appealing, therefore, is also economic. It is simply reality that what is deemed attractive in a man is different than what is deemed attractive for women. This has been true in all cultures throughout all of human history. Humanity is a sexually dimorphous species, so the elements important for male and female attractiveness will *always* be different - it isn't "The Patriarchy" it is biological reality. Standards will therefore always be different and social engineering attempts to change this are doomed to fail and lead to unhappiness. When it comes to what is important, attractiveness in women require 3 things that are rather easy to detect - youth, beauty and purity. In contrast attractiveness in men have more components and are usually not readily apparent. It therefore stands to reason that physical attractiveness is more important in the girl group market than in the boy group market. There is no conspiracy to oppress women here; these are economic decisions made to appeal to consumer preference caused by human nature. Entertainers in the K-pop industry are called "idols" for a reason - they are supposed to be perfect. It is therefore silly to argue that it is unfair to complain about the demand for perfection in female idols because perfection is the very thing that is being sold. Furthermore, the most important component of male "perfection," is the ability to provide and protect, but that is already taken care of when it comes to male idols because they are employed (as idols). Moreover, to the extent that drive and ambition are factors in evaluating how well a man can provide, they necessarily already exist for male idols because of the rigorous trainee system. It isn't that female idols are less driven or capable, but rather these traits contribute less to the fantasy parasocial relationship because they don't make a woman any more attractive. The "double standards" for male and female idols are not really double standards because the nature of the product is different. Foe example, the reason why dating scandals are more damaging to female idols is because men value a woman's innocence (in sexual matters) whereas for women, experience is is either unimportant or a benefit (because women assume that if other women find a man attractive, there must be something "good" about him and therefore will also be more likely to find the man attractive). To rail against this is simply an exercise in self-delusion. These differences are universal through time and culture. Asserting that this is unfair is like believing that it is wrong for water to be wet. Beauty standards are not set by (straight) men. They are set by women. When women look at other women, they are interested in what she wears, who she is with, how elegant or tacky is her jewelry, how good is her makeup, how good is her hair. Men don't care about these details - they only care if she is pretty or not. The fashion and cosmetic industries base their standards on what appeals to women, not men. Designer handbags are not purchased to appeal to men, they are purchased to establish hierarchy amongst other women. The particularities of shoes - height of heel, thickness of heel, pointiness of toe, color, material, decoration - men don't care so long as the shoes make the woman's legs look good. There is no "Patriarchy" forcing these beauty standards on women; women govern other women with them. Men are not the ones "slut-shaming" women. For men, a woman's sexual history is the about whether she is wife material or hookup material. Either is fine as long as it fits what the man is looking for. Men don't care if a woman is a "slut," they simply put that woman in the "hookup" box. Finally, I want to note that complaining about "fat-shaming" is special pleading. Women have no problem whatsoever asking a potential date how tall he is but get upset if the men ask them how much they weigh. Both have to do with physical appearance, and at least with weight, it is something that a woman can change (whereas height is simply fixed). Complaining that "fat-shaming" is misogynistic but having a height requirement for a potential partner is either hypocrisy or it is blindness to the privileges of womanhood while looking at the hardships.

I always wondered why people are suprised when a young girl debut and always say "oh my god she is a child she will get sexualized". What do you expect when they have to face ageism after 30? I'm not saying it's right for a 14 year old girl to debut (just as much as it isn't for a boy), but if it is her dream and she knows she will likely have to end her dream at about 30 if she is lucky enough, I don't blame her. Besides many times it's the company or the concept that sexualise the child is the freaking fandom. Especially when the youngest are main something in the group they get more sexualised especially main dancers or centers. The shit people like Niki and Wonyoung had to go through for literally just slaying the concept is wild. And we are all acting as if minors are pure and innocent until the day before they turn 18, but the day after you can say the nastiest thing cause they aren't minors anymore... hypocrisy right there. If people weren't obsessed with sexualising in general and especially young people we probably wouldn't have has much of a problem with "older" idols as we have now, cause many of them are slaying just as much as the new gens and it shouldn't be ignored just cause they are 30

I for sure agreed with you in a lot of topics but Hyunjin’s topic was misleading. The girl that left (g)idle wasn’t even proven guilty of bullying bc the company didn’t even care to investigate, in which I agreed with you. But Hyunjin was only suspended bc of the wave of accusations that people were throwing at all idols that year. In the end j^p did investigate and it was resolved he wasn’t part of the bullying, just people wanting to have their minute of fame. This just wasn’t bc of “their girl fandom” as you were suggesting, it was probably once of the worst times for being a stay and being so conflict bc in the kpop world you never know if people are telling the truth or just want fame. Hyunjin was not accused of bullying!

While this is all true,we can't ignore the fact that majority of the hate towards female idols come from female fans of BGs out of jealousy.