Im not a redbull fan, but you can't punish a team who has worked damn hard to reign supreme. As long as there is nothing illegal then fair play to them! I just wish it was McLaren haha
@@mattBLACKpunk Nadal, Federer, djokovic; 3 men who’ve absolutely dominated tennis the last 20 years. No one else has had a chance. Loose comparison I know.
I'm with mattblackpunk in confusion over your message. Are you saying that potential talents have been held back or is merely because these guys are so good they cannot succeed?
@@whiteflagrage I’m saying that because those guys have been dominated for so long, there’s a whole generation of tennis players who’ve not been able to achieve their own success. Does that clear it up?
It was up to renault to do better when ferrari was winning. It was up to merc to do better than redbull to beat seb and red bull. It was up to red bull to do better to beat merc. Now it is up to mclaren or ferrari to do better to beat read bull.
Here’s the thing. I agree that this is a new level of dominance. But I do think that Mercedes could’ve done the same thing. The championships from 2014-2019 were crazy. They actually held back power because there car was so fast. And if they end up punishing success then we mine as well just make f1 teams drive the same car
@@TheConfidentNoob that’s true. But it still wasn’t the same level of dominance. I’m a Red Bull fan and I love what I’m watching. But I remember 2014-2020
Merc dominance didnt go as far as Red Bulls purely because Sir Lulu is not as good of a driver. Like wise man once said "this guy can only drive from front"
I mentioned the problem of single teams dominating the sport years before I actually got into F1. Would I prefer tighter competition, absolutely but I don't think dominance should be punished because that comes with any sport. In NASCAR you had Jimmie Johnson and Hendrick Motorsports. Indycar you have Scott Dixon, WRC has Sebastian Loeb. And you could even pull examples from non motorspirts, Simone Biles, Tiger Woods, MJ, the Yankees. Dominance comes with the sport. So appreciate it when you experience.
This is a competitive sport, not only in driving, but also in development. new regulations every few seasons shakes up the development race. There is no need to punish dommination, I would not watch F1 without the intense off track development battles. I would rather like even less regulation and see more of the development race, with a higher cost cap - not a lower one.
Punish what exactly? With the new rules everyone has the same budget/cost cap, winners have less time in the wind tunnels so theres already a handicap for winning. Everyone is the same level except someone knows how to make an F1 car drivable and others dont.
Exactly, now we actually get to see which team excels in engineering, and it looks like with an even playing field Adrian Newey is still the king of aerodynamics.
It's not even a problem, people want to see history, greatness. People who said dominance or dynasty are bad it's only because their own team is not the one winning
there were calls for RB to be held back because of overspill from the end of 2021 and the budget cap breach for 2022, but now it's very clear that Max (and RB) is deserving of all of his WDC's and the teams success
This isn’t just a red bull domination it’s a Max domination and you shouldn’t punish the driver. Can you imagine that in any other sport, tennis, golf and this is F1 not nascar
They should have hit Red Bull a lot harder than they did when they went over budget. So what, you fined them, but they still used that overspend money for an advantage. How about sidelining a team for 4 or 5 races? I bet they'll watch the budget like a hawk after that.
I remember when a driver (Gasly? Perez? I'm not sure) was at like 10 race penalty points, and then pulled another stunt where he broke the rules and got penalties during the races. When those penalties would normally give a driver 2 penalty points, he got 1 (or none even). If a driver is at 12 penalty points, they have to miss the next race. What I'm saying is, even the FIA tries to get drivers out of missing races. They're never going to sideline anyone
Second year of Red Bull dominating. Where were those voices when Mercedes was dominating the sport for 7(!!) years in a row?! Maybe it's because Verstappen isn't british?
While I get the FIA’s position, it’s a bit silly for the FIA to say they punish success, eg. banning DAS, altering regs to favour high rake vs low rake designs. Whichever way the want it is fine by me, just be consistent.
This "punishment" the fia speaks of is literally what happened to mercedes and it was as simple as changing the technical regulations for the cars. Does that clown Ben really think people don't know or remember things like this? It's literally how all eras of domination end
Dominance started when the first driver won 2 in a row. They have had over 100 years to solve the problem. Yet in 2023, we have one of the most dominate car/driver the sport has seen. Get use to it. The fix is spec racing. The drivers are handed their cars before the race and must give them back after. The cars are absolutely identical. That will end dominate cars. Dominate drivers are another matter.
As a red bull fan since day one (I was a jag fan) I would love it if they changed the regulations. Domination is boring, technological innovation is brilliant. RB would probably still win anyway.
years of dominance is ok , Uncontested dominance is not. Lewis had to battle nico in 14 to 16 then vettle from 17-mid 19 . Mid 19 to 2020 was uncontested and boring, 2021 was the greatest season maybee ever but certainly for that generation of cars. Max has 0 opposition from redbull with their second driver situation & other teams have not done a good enough job. More and more fans are switching off due to this reason. Max has 25% of all F1 fans as his but that still leaves the rest of the 75% of fans bored and knowing that no other team has a chance to win regardless of strategy is the problem. IE when mercs were dominating in 2019 other teams won and it was on strategy and now even if redbull makes a mistake the pace advantage they have is so great that sterategic advantage gets negated. FIA should interfere in this generation or else with next rule set of 2026 and beyond lets say ferrari is dominating they can say redbull were not stopped then why should they be and the cycle will repeat. I understand that slowing down the redbull will slow down everyone else as well with this generation of cars and that is the majour limitaion since FIA made multiple hurdles to trip mercedes with 2017-18-19-21 rule tweaks but i dont think that is possible with this generation. I hope FIA opens the rules for more permutation in the next ruleset.
I think there should be weight penalties like in Super GT or other motorsport categories. Win a race get 50 kg added, second 25 kg and third 10 kg. So we wouldn’t wait a whole season but do it on a race by race basis. If Red Bull it Max Verstappen still win everything then. Then think about it
Redbull are not setting a new standard of domination though, they are only equalling McLaren's 1988 season. Perhaps not even quite dominating enough to equal it, if you break it right down.
At least Senna and Prost were equally competitive in the same machinery, while Perez is eons behind Max and the question is now when, not if Checo will lose 2nd in the standings. This is why Red Bull's 2023 season should never...ever be mentioned in the same breath as McLaren's 1988 season
@@patepulkkinenvtec2403 absolutely, especially considering the only race they did not win (Monza) was only lost because Senna tripped over a back marker when lapping them. The race Redbull lost this year (Singapore) was because of poor car performance.
The only difference between Mercedes domination and RBR domination is the following: When Mercedes dominated, remember, every week was a drama with Karen Horner and Marko. Every single week we had to hear them bitching and trying to do any sneaky thing to stop mercedes. When RBR is dominating, of course other teams complained about a few things but it never reached the level of toxicity Horner and Marko reached. Mercedes had: - DAS removed - Party mode removed - Regulation changes to make the low rack design less efficient it was up to other teams to catch up huh ? And from a general pov RBR asked and even cried for a caped budget, threatening to leave F1 if it wasn't implemented ... and see who is the one who broke it and still didn't get really punished ... this is where the FIA messed up to punish redbull. They broke the cap they asked for and they didn't get punished hard enough. If you ask for something you are supposed to be an example on respecting it. But no, they just broke it and said "we didn't break it" knowing they did and then "we thought other teams would break it too".
Aren't the current regulations in place to end the w11 dominance, which is still the fastest f1 car ever built? Ballast was added to Ferrari during Schumacher's time as well. Football and Basketball teams gain or lose draft picks based on their success or lack off. Because success gives an advantage to consecutive rounds competitions need to be reset in order to be fair.
Only way to level the playing field is to get rid of these dump regulations. Like the damn cost cap. Each team should be held responsible for there own flow of income if they can’t get sponsorship sell your team
I dont think they will "directly punish" them, The closest one we will get probably just a new ruling but have different way to the RBR's car design What i meant, is kind of similar to 2021 where the rule indirectly boosting the high rake car (RBR AT), and giving low rake car have a hard time (Merc, Aston Martin) Leading to the closer grid But at the same time, They didnt 'directly punish' Merc, because Merc can still develop their car... So if in some years RBR still in front by huge margin, i wont be surprised if theres a rule like that happened
I see no problem with this. regulations have major changes every few seasons that shake up the development battles and as I watch for the dev race as much as the driver race, 2023 is NOT a bad season. Dommination is earned and I would be majorly dissapointed if there would not be a domminating car late in a regulation cycle. If the regulations become so restrictive, that improvement is barely noticeable, F1 would no longer be interesting to me.
@@000BlackSoul000AMVs I'm not arguing that. It's impressive what RB and Max did this year But I would be lying if I were to say that most of the races this year weren't boring
@@000BlackSoul000AMVsRB or Max fan? or you certainly don’t find anything boring if you watched this season. i’d hate to pay Sky £60 a month just to watch something similar than paint dry
@@NovaDaGoat McLaren fan. I agree with your sky argument though, I used to have pro tv until sky took over, now I pirate. I see position gains relative to team strength almost as interesting as race wins, so domminant teams are not a problem for me.
“But they punished Mercedes!” Yeah they did, but not until 2020, from 2014-2019 the FIA did nothing and we watched Mercedes demolish the field, and sprinkle in Vettel bringing a challenge for half a year two times.
For the ones complaining about Verstappen and Red Bull specifically, I have 1 thing to say: Sergio Perez... If its was a question just about the car, why is Perez always mid field lately ? :)
@@NovaDaGoat a good driver doesn't drive just what it suits it. A good driver adapts and the reality is that in the beginning of the season he was using the same car with good results.
@@NovaDaGoatWell, I would have accepted that if it was constant like it was with Riccardo at Mclaren. However, it not Perez first year, he is clearly used to the car and he delivered results in the beginning of the season. Regardless, if even its a question of adaptation, it supports my argument that the car is fast with a really good driver, Verstappen. Either one separately is not that dominant.
That's the way it should be and WHY in the World should MAX VERSTAPPEN BE PUNISHED FOR HIS SUCCESS! LEWIS HAMILTON IS A, "CRYBABY!" When he was was winning that's all that mattered to him. NOW HE'S LOSING ALL HE CAN DO IS CRY ABOUT MAX'S WINNING! I look forward to every RACE! I'm Happy for Max and I'm also Happy for Lando and Fernando Alonzo at the age of 41 Year's Old he is still driving strong and very well. There's no other Sport like formula 1 Racing. Michael Schumacher in my opinion is the Greatest Race Car Driver Ever! During his time there was only at the most 14 Races a Season. Senna also in my opinion would have been the Greatest only if he had survived his crash. I will never forget that Sunday or that Race. Remember one other driver lost his life during practice on Saturday. Thank God the car's are safer today. MAX VERSTAPPEN MAY JUST TURN OUT TO BE THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME, "THE GOAT!" 👏 HIS STYLE OF RACING IS MUCH MORE EXCITING THAN THAT OF LEWIS HAMILTON! MAX VERSTAPPEN DOES NOT CRY ABOUT WHO'S WINNING. MAX VERSTAPPEN EARNED HIS HIS WINS! 👏👍 ENOUGH SAID!!! ✌️
Verstappen walked across the track at Monza in 2021 after parking his car on top of Hamilton and was not fined. Max has plenty of young fans too. It's pretty hard to deny that Hamilton was, in fact, singled out; he's just being diplomatic.
They banned so many things, but didn't hit them in their main advantage...the power unit. And when Ferrari was giving Mercedes a fight, them and the Media covering their back pressured FIA to investigate Ferrari power unit.
except that Merc, like all the others, went through 4 regulation changes in these 7 years and they still dominated. there it's the 2nd year of ultra domination with the same regulation. FIA tried to stop Merc with those new regulations. why RB could'nt have the same? i'm not for punishing them but a change of regulation to mix it up again would be nice. it would be fair in fact.
Why does motorsport insist on punishing success? The only other motorsport I used to watch many years ago was the BTCC. Audi came in and dominated, so they banned 4WD. After that (maybe at the same time), if you won, they added weight to your car. Let's take another sport, tennis. How about they make the likes of Novak Djokovic play with a smaller racket, or successful soccer teams play with their laces tied together. For the last couple of years, Red Bull have produced the better car with Adrian Newey AND have Max as a driver... so they should be penalised! Mercedes dominated for seven years, and despite rule changes (from what someone else said), still dominated. Was that because the rule changes weren't enough or because Mercedes had the better car and better drivers? Short of only one manufacturer making all the cars, with no ability to make any changes to setup at all, and no pitstops, with the ONLY difference being the driver, then it's impossible to equalise the grid.
This rubbish of a driver or a team should be nobbeled for dominating is is absolutely ridiculous, teams and drivers have dominated since F1 began! This silly idea that every season should be a repeat of 2021 is absolute stupidity! The only 2021 happened is because we were seeing the end of the Mercedes domination and the beginning of the Red Bull domination
no because Max was absolutely driving like a dummy and FIA cutted the floor of the Merc to reduce the gap between them and RB. 2021 is artificial AF man. get real.
What I dumb ass thing if a team are doing well (winning) then it's down to other teams to catch up. mr Newey has done well hasn't he and the driver isn't that bad either. But it's clear the overspend and punishment did absolutely nothing
Merc got 4 regulation changes during 7 years to try to stop them. why RB could'nt have the same? it would be fair to do the same. 2 years of ultra domination calls for new regs.
IF you want to level the playing field then it’s simple have ALL cars made by one company all the same no differences no tweaks nothing different then put the drivers in the car and see who’s best u can still have all ur livery’s of course
you have a short memory dude. Merc went through 4 regulations change to be stopped. they remained the best. Merc's 8 years are legit AF. they were just the best despite all the nails thrown at them during this time. RB should've the same treatment. 2 years of ultra domination calls for reg change. no need to punish. just change regs.
I don't like the idea of Punishing success either. Maybe to stop dominance after winning the WDC the driver has to sit out a year or switch teams for a year?... thus other drivers getting a chance to drive the best car and proving the skill of the drivers over machinery.... or Machinery over drivers??
So you are saying if you become world champion, you should not race for the next year because of your success and earn a salary? That is the dumbest shit ive heard in my life. Why dont you tell your boss next time you perform well at work, to lay you off for a year and not earn a salary because you were too good.
I think it’s obvious Red Bull wasn’t punished enough, initially, for cheating and that compounding benefit they’ve received since has been helping their situation
Maybe a sliding scale of points where the more you got, the less you would win from each victory. This wouldn't change who would win as everyone would have to progress through the same deterioration in the number of points they got, but it would let other teams get closer to them in the points so DNFs become more serious. Though that might just end us up in exactly the same spot just with less points between everyone. Someone smarter than I will figure this out.
Oh but when Mercedes was dominating they didn't have any problem baning and outlawing the Merc's tech left and right. I guess that's the difference when a company can own their own track and 2 teams, I guess they can own the FIA too.
What are you talking about? Redbull has been punished in the past by the fia. In the 2021 season they were forced to remove their flexible front wing despite it meeting the FIA’s regulation. They were also stopped from playing with the tire pressure through the use of tire blankets. They slowed down their pit stops for “safety concerns”. Or more recently, raising the hight of the car thereby reducing the effectiveness of the Redbull’s underfloor. Stop making baseless accusations.
