What made FF special in the first place? The world building and the story telling. Square simply made bigger, more expansive and ambitious worlds/stories than other RPGs who were doing the same thing, just not at the same scale. The issue is that not only have other games have caught up with that world building, they have been more innovative in other areas - combat, open world design, interactivity etc. Whether it's Witcher, Elder Scrolls, Souls borne, Mass Effect or Zelda, FF has simply been surpassed.
I don't agree fully with what made Final Fantasy special in the first place was the world building and storytelling. While they are extremely important and well crafted overall, a lot of games also have that trait. I'm not saying that they are not essential to a Final Fantasy title, but I would say what made Final Fantasy special in the first place was it's unique take on the job system, especially after Final Fantasy III.
It would be considered a huge success in the old days but today AAA games cost so much that selling 3 million copies of 60+ dollars games can't cover the development cost anymore.
It's too little because of the astronomical amount of spending they make towards marketing (inviting journalists to nice dinners, advertisement on every major platform, partnering/sponsoring internet celebrities and real life celebrities). Their priorities are so out of whack, that they literally sent developers on year round trips across the world to take photogrammatic scans of rocks, instead of just getting their in-house artists to texture map a stupid rock, or even better, buy a texture pack license for like 500-1000 USD for commercial use and save a ton of money doing so.
Should have released a pc version of final fantasy 16. Even xbox could sell a million or two. Knowing Square enix they will release another horrible pc port. They love them!
Final Fantasy keeps reinventing itself with each entry, so there is no core gameplay for an audience to latch onto. You just have FF's long suffering audience from the old days and whatever casual audience that Square Enix is currently targeting, and neither audience is being well served. I think the combat used in Remake could serve very nicely as the basis for the next ten games - and act as a gameplay lynchpin just like the ATB did back in the day.
I agree with the fact that Square Enix shouldn't let go of everything they've done with the FFVIIR trilogy. It is a great evolution of the ATB system and serves as a perfect base to build a job system for future entries.
@@gdperspective I vehemently disagree. Absolutely nothing involving FF7R should not be used as an example for going forward. From giving us a hollow action combat system instead of a fun turn based combat system (FF16 at least goes all in on the action part), to selling us a 60 dollar game in 3 parts for 70+ dollars per part, to then filling said games with meaningless fluff and overtuned graphics to allegedly "justify the price point", to the awful writing (which is hurt by all of the aforementioned). I do not think encouraging them to disrespect their existing audience in favor of "the wider audience" is the play here.
@@Dharengo That's the whole point of a remake to be honest. It's to bring an old game to a newer generation audience, catering to the original audience is only secondary. Why would you remake a game and give it to the people who've already played? A remake exists to give a newer generation of people an experience tailored towards their expectations in a more accessible format. You're missing the whole reason for a remake. The combat might not have worked for you, but personally it was a great evolution from the ATB system for the current gaming landscape. Yes, separating the game into three parts was a bad move, but personally it's not a huge deal, I enjoyed every second of the two games and am waiting for the third.
The main problem for Final Fantasy is that all the new games are Playstation exclusives for far too long. There are a lot of potential PC customers, but when a port takes years after the initial release a lot of them have moved on in the meantime. They hype is gone. People already know everything about the game from years of let's plays and reviews on RU-vid. As soon as they allow a simultaneous release on consoles and PC (Steam) sales will shoot up a substantially.
Definitely agree that exclusivity is hurting sales. As a studio, of course Square Enix finds it easier to put the financial risk on Sony, but when they realize that Final Fantasy was able to get the money back, of course they wanted to back out. Final Fantasy should be out on everything. User base is extremely important for sales and the PS5 alone definitely doesn't have the numbers to make such a large game make a huge profit.
Interesting that you say that because I haven't played any Zelda after 2 or any Mario after 3, but I've played every Final Fantasy since 7, but I haven't played much of any other non numbered square enix titles, maybe its just me lol
unrelated but i don't like how the FE community numbers games. up until FE10/Radiant Dawn i think its fine, but i really don't like counting remakes as part. imagine if FF7R was called FF20 because its the 20th (correct if you want to) game because FF1-FF4 got remade. this is a dumb thing i care about way too much, hope you have a good day
Personally, I consider FFX the last "real" Final Fantasy title in the series. It was the last where key people like Sakaguchi or Uematsu worked on prominently and the last title by Squaresoft, before things changed drastically with Square Enix. From then, things changed into more action-oriented, new directions. FFXIV seems to be a good, expeptional game, but it's a MMO and that's not everyone's cup of tea (including me).
Yes. FFX was the end of an era. If they want to get popular again, make games like 1-X. A lively cast we can get close to (4-5 at a time in combat), turn-based with the victory trumpets when you win, deep story, and a memorable villain. Preferable with pre-rendered backgrounds and a fixed camera, but I'm flexible. Oh yeah, killer soundtrack is a must as well. I haven't found the music after X to be catchy and repayable, mostly just atmospheric and boring.
@@humanitas94 I enjoyed XII very much! It's was the first experience of an "open-world" for me as FF fan (besides XI, which was an MMO). But on the other side, you could easily see that there was a different developement team behind XII.
I look at this vomment section regurgitating terrible opinions and "fixes". Im glad none of you actually develop FF games, youd have killed franchise before it got a sequel.
You look a bit young to know what happened during the early 2010s, so here I am, the boomer with a history lesson: 1. 2010s: We are in the middle of the height of the Xbox 360 era, while PS3 was finally catching up. 2. The transition to HD was rough/awful for everyone, while Nintendo avoided it with the Wii, they had to get through the storm during the Wii U. 3. Japan lost its edge/advantage during that gen due to the consoles finally reaching PC status in its architecture, meaning development became essentially identical between PC and console. The west had always been king in the PC gaming development, while Japan was in console for several reasons, including language barriers. 4. I regret to inform you that in the top ten PS2 games, 2 of them are Final Fantasy games: FFX with 9 million (2001) and FFXII with 6 million (2006), the latter a critical success but sadly released at the end of the PS2 cycle, where everyone had moved on, but still in the top 10 selling of PS2 games. This fact matches the size of the market at the time and was part of the most successful console in videogame history. So NOT a failure by any stretch of the imagination. 5. The moment of truth arrives, FF13, the first HD FF game. SE, like any other company at the time, was trying to figure out dev of HD games. Long gone were the times when they could release FF game every 2 years. Every company was shooting in the dark. SE decided to create their own engine: Crystal tools. They took their most talented staff and sent them all to build it, while leaving the videogame making barren with noobs. They had to spread thin a bunch of noobs between FF13, FFversus13 and FF13 agito. 6. Years and years went by, no big game from SE. Meanwhile the western devs came up with a game changer: the open world game. The sandbox concept, the story outcome influenced by the player, character customization became all the rage. 7. There was no social media at the time. 8. The narrative was controlled by the media establishment (ME or the mob). They would elevate or ruin games at their whim with the so called "reviews". Public discussion was controlled in THEIR forums. They guarded all the doors and held all the keys. 9. The mob decided the future of RPGs was Mass Effect (LOL that's almost funny now). That game was " The Last of Us" of that era: "amazing, stunning, saved lives blah blah blah", all that unsupported crap. 10. So SE finally reached the do or die point. Crystal tools was a failure of epic proportions, they sent back the devs to rush FF13, which is why we got a bunch of halls with walls of text to a market that changed. Linear vs Open world in that age? The game just got crushed. 11. Fast forward to 2020s. The market has changed YET again. We are in the era of the Witcher (action), Cyberpunk (open world) or Baulder's Gate 3 (turn based), and SE is still playing catch up in a race they can't win when the others have years of advantage. So, what are SE actual mistakes? 1. Crystal tools. Use Unreal engine ffs. 2. Trying to follow instead of leading. 3. Really long dev times, 6 years? 4. They are afraid of change: they cling to FF7 or their FF outdated sack of bricks. They have to throw ALL OUT. PS: Their only current success is FF14, the game that "isn't" a FF game, which is very, VERY telling: in order for FF to succeed it has to stop being FF. Ironic, isn't it? PS2: Action? Turn based? ---- a waste of time. There are success stories for both, that isn't the issue.
Have to understand jap or asian culture ... emperor is god. The decision-making processes were all too slow, and the usual hierarchy makes adapting to the times way too late, too often. Their mode of operations in 2024 is still like back in the 90s/2000s, as much as they deny it.
I think it's a hell of a mistake to say that FF14 isn't an FF game. It's, if anything, one of the most pure FF experiences, in legacy, narrative, characters, and tone.
I adored the ATB and job systems in X-2. Fast, exciting, but still very much ATB. It's such a shame that Square Enix didn't continue iterating there and just went in completely different directions with the games that followed.
The weird thing about the gameplay shown in Versus XIII? The combat seemed more fun, more fluid. But when it came out as FFXV, well it was a sloggy mess that worked with basically two buttons (hold one to attack, hold another to dodge) and no magic except for grenades. I kind of feel they missed the mark with FFXV and while some people love it, I can't help but think it could have been WAY better. And one comment that a lot of people have nowadays about XV is that people expected that XV's combat would be like 7R and I share that sentiment. As for the way to go forward, well games like Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default show that turn based combat is still very desirable. One mistake is thinking that newer generations wouldn't like turn-based combat when in reality, a lot of people who got introduced into FF late went ahead and revisited the older titles and they ended up liking the old, turn-based ones very much. It doesn't mean that FF needs to fully commit to only turn-based after stepping away from it but if FF7R showed anything, it is that they can meld the two together in a way that works. Nevertheless, having grown up with the first consoles like Atari and NES, part of the fun of those old games is how your brain filled the gap between the limited graphics and what you thought was happening. These days, that gap is no longer there due to high graphic fidelity in most games but some niche titles try to replicate that and some manages to do so rather effectively. So really, newer FF games not only take more work to make but they can't entirely rely on that 'fill in' effect like they used to.
You want to know how to fix Final Fantasy? I'll tell you, and it's actually REALLY simple: Release. More. Games. More. Often. Seriously. That's it. Final Fantasy's quality has fallen off a cliff because Squeenix has fallen into the trap of believing everything needs to be 110% AAA/Big Budget/Feature Film quality. So they put these games into development cycles with seemingly limitless (but not actually limitless) budgets where creatives spend way too long becoming perfectionists about things that don't actually matter and end up neglecting the elements that DO actually matter. FF15 is a great example, where it looks great and even has some great characters, but its difficulty curve that hands out too much XP too quickly overpowers your party too soon and the whole game becomes too boring too quickly as a result (and then the 2nd half is an obviously thrown together mess). But the issue is they're spending too much time and too much money on each game. So they end up making safer and safer choices and safe choices . . . are boring choices. And those boring choices translate into bored players. And all of this dev time means that they only release a new title every half decade. Making each title NEED to actually sell more to recoup the immense investment costs that built up over the overlong dev cycle. By striving for perfection, they increase the cost, increasing the cost increases safe choices, safe choices make the game more boring, boring games sell worse. It's a recipe for failure. Meanwhile, back when they were in their golden era? FF 1-10? They were releasing a new title *every other year* or so. Enough time to make something quality, but not enough time that you were spending *too much* time on a project. Not enough time that you could overanalyze everything and get obsessed with perfectionism. You had to make the idea work and get it out the door! And because they were pumping games out, constantly iterating on each, they got much more feedback from audiences. They got to see what worked and what didn't with each game much more often. These days, they screw up something in FF15 and want to fix it in FF16 6 years later and that feedback is stale and pointless. The things they'll change from 16 for 17 will be results we'll see in 7 or 8 years most likely . . . well past when it's relevant. This feedback based on constant iteration means each successive game likely gets better and better because each one is honing ideas from the last two or three or more, not throwing out nearly everything and learning nothing from them. So yeah. It's simple. Make more Final Fantasies more often. It's an anthology series. There's no chronology or canon to worry about. You really CAN just pump titles out here and keep a few re-occurring elements and monsters and it's fine.
Square enix needs to land the FF9 remake. I agree that Yoshitaka Amano is a core part of the true aesthetic of the series and FF9 is very Amano. If they can bring his style into a modern game then that could be a path for the future of FF visuals. Also it sounds like the FF9 remake would stay turnbased since it's not going to be a high budget remake like FF7R. That too could be a pointer to a future of main FF being turnbased again, if the game sells enough. The time is so right for FF9 right now. Turn based is popular again, and people are tired of bloated open worlds too.
Amano isn't a core part of the true aesthetic of the series and hasn't been since 1995, so unless you're in your mid 40s he has never represented mainstream Final Fantasy
You might be correct that they need shorter games, with shorter production times, and more iteration, but the results that would come from that probably will not match the quality we expect. I wonder if any of us are misjudging how well they're iterating, that sequels still take as long to develop as the first parts. It's possible they are failing to cut down, and are intentionally taking the same amount of time to instead make things better than the previous parts, which might be a mistake. I have no idea. I can understand more broadly that there would be an attraction to focus more resources into sequels of previous successes, but I don't know if that's short-sighted or just sensible. Perhaps pouring more resources doesn't actually increase the potential profit, but it's justified in hind-sight (until it doesn't).
You hit it so hard on the nail. I think I’m the same like you and had I not been exposed to the games as a kid from older teens and relatives around me loved it I would never have been into it. I was so excited to play versus xiii as a kid but I’m way older now haha. And growing up I did not meet much kids and same as teen that never met other ff fans , they really missed a while generations. Kingdom hearts still had some fans but square blew it between those development hells
Right? It has always been really hard to get friends my age into Final Fantasy. Everyone around our age gap is a Final Fantasy fan thanks to older people around them. Thankfully, Kingdom Hearts, especially the first one, somewhat targeted younger kids on release. That's probably why Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts probably have have different audiences. Not entirely, though.
In my opinion square messed up on MMOs. They focused from 2003ish to 2016 on them almost exclusively 12 being a single player MMO style. 13 was the endless hallway. So basically a whole generation went by thinking Final Fantasy was MMO. Yes 14 is good now, but it wasn't when it released.
While I agree that the "warping" does matter. Stranger of Paradise was NOT a great game. It was alright, nice to look at, but all the end-game grind and the loot system were horrible. Story was pretty basic too, where great stories are usually one big selling point for Final Fantasy games. If the game was just good, the graphics wouldn't matter as much and it would still be popular. I still completed it, but Its not a Final Fantasy I would recommend over..Say Dissida duodecim. I also think one of the big problems squareenix has at the moment, is that they try to feed the Exclusive market, during an era were more and more people have actually really good PC's and they definetely lose sales on that. I didn't buy Rebirth even though I really do want to play it, and it takes so long to move towards the PC, that I probably will not buy it later either. Cause its irrelevant by the time it ported to PC and I probably just watch one of my favorite streamers complete it instead. Same with 16, my interest was big when it released and now its just "Eh, whatever" feeling. And I am pretty sure I can't be the only one feeling like that. The initial start hype is important.
I hope they don't ditch the numbers. Like you say, without the numbers they would need to find a new way to differentiate between mainline titles and side games, so people know what to expect. You can forgive a non-mainline FF game for being a bit janky, being smaller, etc. If that distinction isn't clear then it could damage the brand if they released a lower budget side game, even if it's actually decent. Imagine if people thought SOP was the next mainline title. People would be expecting a grand adventure in a big world, with sidequests, towns, NPCs, etc, and they'd be disappointed. Instead they should just make the fact that each one is a new story, new world with new characters a core part of the marketing. Put that on all the ads. I think that would be easier than trying to get across which are "mainline" titles in the marketing. Alternatively they could just not make any side games with the FF brand. Which I think would be a shame.
After watching this video and looking at Clair Obscur Expedition 33. I feel like that game will be another big hit on turn based combat that will give a wake up call to Square Enix. Oh yeah and Metaphor Refantazio
FF remind me of how Dragon Age completely change from an episode to another. They had a very good formula, they had a whole devoted army of fans, and suddenly they decided to change the formula completely and go get some new fans somewhere. And now they're suprised it's not working anymore. Duh. Old fans want FF back. Other audiences dgaf about FF and they will never do
Not sure that I agree with making FF games shorter. I'm 200 hours into FF15 and just loving it. It gives me the FF fix while I wait for 16 to come to Xbox. And given that timeframes between each mainline game is 4 years minimum, it's good to stay in the FF circle while waiting.
I just want another traditional fantasy game full of charme. Like 9. The graphics don't even need to surpass those of 10. Gameplay and story is king, after all. But I guess that won't fly when you try to sell your overpriced hardware...
Lots of great points I haven’t heard others bring up. I really think FF should stop trying to franchise new and untested games so hard right at release. (Or games that just were not popular like 13). It’s a waste of their resources and seems to encourage them to leave crucial content/context out of their games (like with 15).
I really disliked Final Fantasy XVI. Almost felt like it was ashamed to be a part of the series with how much it threw out the window. Most everything I like about FF was discarded, I really hope this isn’t the new series direction of the series. Also I never have the numbered issue. It only takes a second to explain it’s an anthology series and you can start wherever
No, I don’t think ditching the numbers will help. Personally, I think what we have so far is fine. Now if they decide to stop at say Final Fantasy 20. I’ll be fine with that. Now I do agree with this 11:28. This is coming from Producer and CEOs as being the major killing blow to a lot of Companies (other than Nintendo). The Over inflated Salary of a Bunch of Business Suited people who only sit at a Desk and know Just shot about Video games Is what kills me! Personally, I find more stake in the DEV rooms since that’s filled with people who are actually doing the Work! Graphically. While everything has started to look western, I think that much of the Mid-eastern influences, and Eastern style has held up. Though what I do agree about, is that we can definitely use a Return to form. Especially in both Gameplay and Graphics! If it costs so much money to try and make Highly detailed, And photo Realistic Models, then it doesn’t make any sense to continue on with this Hollywood style. I don’t mind retuning to the Classic top down Final Fantasy that’s willing to use Linear Paths, Limited Village and City designs, and Turn-Based Combat!
The roman numerals make a FF title "Official". It is perceived as the "actual new Final Fantasy, not a spinoff". If you drop the numerals then just by reading the title people are lead to understand it's not an actual "new" title but a side project based on the "officiel" titles. When it is at SIXTEEN and it's been DECADES of associating the title with the numerals it is already embedded into the franchise title's name as a badge of legitimacy.
the numbering has become a part of the franchise, anyone who says ditch it is a moron. ditching the numerals is like removing chocobos, its just not a final fantasy without the roman numeral numbering.
Absolutely 100% correct about basically everything. Games should be shorter and more iterative, honing in on what the product actually is, and then they need to market the crap out of that product, which is in fact a Japanese game that is inspired by Western RPGs. Kind of like, idk...Elden Ring? Iterate on Rebirth gameplay, don't throw things away and work from the ground up. They could make 3-4 titles in the next 5-10 years all iterating on this combat system and nobody will blink an eye! Just keep it new and fresh by rewarding your artists, creatives and programmers. Find a way to add a multiplayer element that is unique and engages people with challenge and strong storytelling. Keep your systems you work so hard to create, fine tune them to perfection in new games, only adding what works and only taking out what you feel is absolutely necessary. Final Fantasy has a path forward as a juggernaut of JRPGs if they can fold what XIV has done with multiplayer into a single player game while having best in class combat, art, music and storytelling. Most of all, they have to be courageous. They have to believe that they have what it takes.
i disagree with changing Stranger of Paradise into Final Fantasy Origins. square has done this so much, with the Mana games, and the SaGa games, which are old. but, Final Fantasy sells. i'm an advocate of original IPs since i think tying everything to FF just creates creative constraints. instead of remakes constantly flooding, i want games to be revived from the dead with a new sequel, like getting a Dark Cloud 3 in the modern day and age i've never heard the argument that people feel intimidated by final fantasy because there's so many games. so many FFs have always been noob-friendly, not just in terms of difficulty, but in lore. people know FF games tend to have isolated stories. it doesn't really matter if someone starts from 1 or 4 or 7 because they don't share characters, just some themes and vaguely the same setting.
People in the comments were arguing why FF13 is bad, and as an avid 13 "hater", I have the fact sheet right here..: It was the perfect storm of; **boring** corridors; annoying characters and directing; convoluted **jargon**, the main issue being the jargon; a bad introduction to a new battle system and poor choice of music to introduce all this with. Basically 13 had so much new and failed to ease existing people into the newest entry in a painless manner.
Early ff was almost a yearly affair so of course it's gonna be a mainstay in the culture, it simply takes too long for a new game so of course it's gonna lose reference
yearly event for who? the overseas market? its easy to release a yearly game when your on the fourth installment of a franchise in the home territory releasing the first installment everywhere else.
Around 11:32 I began to agree with everything you said. Shorter development times are needed, smaller games or else a larger price tag imo. Ff did indeed skip a generation due to its development cycle time. There’s too much trying to appeal to people by replicating what’s already been done. Remake has been a nice change of pace. For the first time in a long while it feels like they’ve developed something fresh and truly new. While I am pro turn-based, it still has that strategic feel to it that turn based has. 15 did not have that, and neither did 16. Neither felt turn based at all and their battle systems lacked the depth that series long time fans NEED. Baldurs gate, persona 5… turn based ain’t dead! It’s just been asleep. :)
Numbered Final Fantasy games should continue, but they need to be singular stories. That's requirement number 1. I shouldn't have to play sequels or spinoffs to get a complete story. I shouldn't have to read tie-in books, or watch tie-in movies, or scour through a compendium to have the full intended context. DLC shouldn't be required to complete the main plot, paid or not. A full game should be a full game. Requirement # two... Please just make an installment in your mainline jRPG series that's a mainline jRPG. They could iterate on the combat mechanics of FFX-2, but in world and story originally built around using that kind of system like in FF 1, 3, 5, and Tactics. And it doesn't have to be infinitely complicated. They don't know when to stop designing layers of systems on top of each other. Keep It Simple Stupid. The longer and bigger game equals better game and better sells was only kinda true for a very small span of time a couple decades ago, and a flash in the pan for the pandemic. Older and younger gamers alike really can not sustain too many epicy long games anymore, and FF has not been earning that exception lately. People have less and less free time all across the world with every passing year. Requirement number C: Stop devoting so much budget to graphics. Nobody's complaints about or drooling over graphics actually translates to sells numbers. The people who criticize will probably still buy it. The people are impressed based solely on that factor will still be just as prone to not buying it as they were if they weren't impressed. Graphical innovation can stand to wait a few installments between. Focus on art direction, plot development, and fun.
Honestly I feel like X-2 is where they started to lose their touch; by then Tactics was a big thing, and Crystal Chronicles was on its way; it was a massive marketing fumble to just slap the number “2” in front of a perfectly good FF title. Imagine if they had called it: “Final Fantasy: Memory of Lightwaves” or something like that. In fact I’d have a lot more respect for it then. After that they just got way too comfortable with the idea of sequels instead of just going the proper route of spinoffs. Now the franchise is so over saturated with numbers it feels almost as tiresome as new “Super Saiyan” forms. There’s honestly no reason a game series should ever make it to 16 unless it feels fresh every time but it really just feels kinda stale now and that makes me a little sad 😢
FF started going downhill post merger with Enix because the 2 best minds were forced out. Sakaguchi and Matsuno. XII was lucky that it was pretty good on release considering it’s troublesome development and unfinished state
Development time needs to speed up. Lol, most of their pc ports are trash. Square enix would get sales if they support pc better. They are lazy and proven they only care about Sony. They promised a mod tool for final fantasy 15 that it didn't happen. I hear a big complaint about final fantasy 13 games not being on ps4 or ps5. Pc has them, and xbox has them. Square enix final fantasy 7 remake is amazing. I refuse to buy ps5 to play a new one. Kingdom hearts pc ports are trash too. Secret of Mana Port was horrible. Just look at how square enix shoots themselves in the foot.
I wish the realtime battle and gambit system in XII to come back; well, maybe less comprehensive since you barely need to do anything during the late game once you found the way to customize a fail proof gambit.
unpopular opinion perhaps, but ... I dislike the gambit system. It's not "playing" the game anymore, just setting up/actually-programming-the-game-to Reflect and all that to let the boss beat itself to death. And then sit there and wait (mobile tech was not that advanced then).
You make a lot of great points. As someone who got into Final Fantasy as a child watching his father play Final Fantasy 4, Final Fantasy 11 was off putting and then Final Fantasy 13 was the first main line Final Fantasy I didn't finish. The fact that they quadruple down on it releasing sequels and spin-offs like Final Fantasy Type-0, and then even the Final Fantasy 15 was technically what a 13 spin-off turn into, it was way too long of games I had written off, And I lost interest in all of the modern games until I got really into gaming again during 2020. Great video! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
The real marketing failure of Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin is the premise itself: a prequel to... Final Fantasy I. This is not a canon people are invested in or interested in exploring. It was a basic RPG story from an era where the influences of Western RPGs like Ultima can still be felt in JRPGs. It got memed for that reason too - Chaos sounds like a joke of a RPG villain name even though FFI unironically named him that. What's the Stranger of Paradise's pitch to us? Chaos' rise to power is kinda complicated and we should play this to find out? No thanks! Who gives a hoot about FFI canon?
I especially don't care about FF1 canon was it was written and done by people who don't understand a darn thing and weren't there for the development of FF1, the game that literally saved Square (later Squaresoft and then merged to Square Enix) from becoming bankrupt. They are just spitting on their legacy with that joke of a game.
the franchise has become too big for its own good. atlus is already doing what square enix needs to do to final fantasy; split out the main final fantasy brand into smaller branches and spin offs. if you know how shin megami tensei works, smt, persona and metaphor are basically under the same big umbrella just with different flavors. ff16, tactics ogre reborn and other heavy entries should be under the same branch. steampunks on another branch. mechs and futuristics on another branch. high fantasies on another branch, classic turn based on another branch etc etc. they could use as much or as few branches they want as long as they sub-category them already. then theres the grand trunk that is the "final fantasy" that pushes tech boundaries. they are already doing it with 7 anyways. 7 has become so big that it could already be considered as a franchise of its own. so why not do it on others if it means they could save the brand. their main problem is they dont know how to market final fantasy anymore. they can not target specific audiences since they pin point what "final fantasy" should be. do me a favor and google out atlus's roster of recent games and youd see that even the business model of atlus outside of smt could be used by square enix to reference what they could do to save themselves even outside the final fantasy franchise. i even dare to say that atlus is what squareenix wants to be but is repeatedly failing just because they cant let go of how final fantasy used to be. if i think of jrpg, i dont think of squareenix anymore. they are not the top dogs of that genre anymore. im not saying that atlus is the top dog, what im saying is atlus is closer to what squaresoft used to be in the past compared to tje current squareenix. squareenix needs to let of the ego of their past selves. they wouldnt be able to save themselves if they keep on holding unto that heavy burden.
Monster Hunter ditched numbers because they found keeping them alienated people. What happened? Monster Hunter World became the most successful game in the franchise.
You're totally right. Capcom did something beautiful with that. They developed Generations as a farewell to classic Monster Hunter and made World to bring more people into the IP. It was brilliant.
I agree with pretty much all these points. I feel like they could keep straddling the jrpg/western game style, I think Rebirth did a great job of this, or they could go harder into a niche. The other thing too about FF XVI being better received as a spin off, I mean I guess so, but it also seems like every FF game released gets this critique... I kind of think FF fans need to be open minded.
Yes, every Final Fantasy is pretty much suffering from that, but it also lets you know that the franchise is suffering from the lack of "identity" that previous installments had. I adore XVI. I really do, but Final Fantasy games that had such a different gameplay style were spinoffs before, like Tactics and Crystal Chronicles.
No, fans don't need to be open-minded, they need a real FF. Look at Persona, Shin Megami Tensei, Tales of, all the Nippon ichi licences... all these franchises have managed to keep their identity and their fans are still there to support them. SE has lost its way by trying to attract a whole new audience instead of simply developing the one they already have.
Good points all around although as someone who was in high school not too long ago kids my age were playing Genshin impact, Persona, Bloodborne. This combined with Final Fantasy 14’s general popularity they need to make an updating ARPG kinda like the BR for mobile but actually quality (not saying they should make a battle royale) FF7 Rebirth being basically Open World combined with an actual rpg system catering to their more hardcore fans did not make the sales they need is a sad example of why current single player tropes are just being overshadowed by other franchises holding the space. Same reason why all those BRs came to be(PUBG, Apex, Naraka) and the world at large went back to Warzone and Fortnite so fast cause they have a lock on the market.
I think I would have liked Lightning if I were at all interested in the games she was featured in. Something more similar to the Final Fantasy games from the late SNES to early PS2 era.
i actually like ff 16 like really reallly like it i actually want a least another game made by square with its combat system Edit: i just want ff 16 combat system to get better I want a competitor to dmc
I've played since FFVIII, then VII. From that time on, it seems that Square Enix has moved away from us roleplayers, that love the mix of japanese/western style and roleplay rules. They moved too much to western style action player. I personally don't buy Final Fantasy for when it's an action RPG. Then i go for other franchises. I want roleplay. I still play HorizonXI. Which is a private oldschool FFXI Online lvl 75 cap server, that tries to keep the old spirit alive
I do not agree that they should stop with the numbering because after the merger those greedy executive dogs at Enix started to milk the Final Fantasy brand on overdrive going from having 10-12 FF titles in existence to over possibly 70-90 titles released using the Final Fantasy name. That's going to add even more confusion on people from your suggestion. Zelda doesn't have that problem tho Zelda A link to the Past on the SNES was known as Zelda 3 to correct you just that numbering wasn't pushed hard. Definitely on the mark with FF16 it was no RPG it was pretending to be and it was an action game the game Yoshi-P always wanted imo lying to our face that this and that couldn't be implemented yet FF7 remake a game developed right after it was able to do everything he claimed his FF16 couldn't do. I believe that Square should stick with Unreal Engine and just focus on creating Final Fantasy 17 and not focus so much on the graphics since we see they can already can reach those heights so more time can be focused on making it an actual Final Fantasy title like the 2D and CGI background era and developing a worthy story to be told, character development, party members, a new iteration of the ATB combat system as they cannot use the excuse of turn base won't sell with the likes of Baldur's Gate 3, Persona 5 and other titles. Airship travel, use what made the FF 2D and CGI background FF like 7-9 great whatever it takes so the development time can be shorter but thorough enough where the game is polished and not released bug filled.
Anyone else noticed the FF7R project is basically SE trying to force FF13 on people again. Same stagger mechanics, same convoluted plot, same “fighting fate” Nomura crap.
The stagger mechanic was a pretty good addition, the plot isn't that convoluted to be honest, atleast not as much as 13, it's just the original ff7, but expanded, fighting fate has always been part of final fantasy series, if you don't like that, you shouldn't even be allowed to talk about final fantasy, the series ain't for you. Nomura crap? Final fantasy XIII's director is Motomu Toriyama, Nomura is only a character designer for that game, get your info right, kid. Final fantasy XIII's main problems were linearity and the combat not opening up until late game.
The Stagger mechanics really come from Final Fantasy 11 but I get what you're saying tho and no I don't think they are going that far. Nomura wasn't in the directors seat this time around but I don't think the rebirth director had any real choices as Rebirth may of already had it planned to add that crap to it tho their excuse was to make hardcore players of the original feel the same experience that we did with Remake and Rebirth. On Remake they failed in my honest opinion but in Rebirth I have to admit they succeeded because in the greater scope of the story it works. Tho I hated how the ending of the Temple played out. I rather we have it play out like the original but I doubt those p0hsey's at Square Enix wanted to show Aerith get beat up by a insane Cloud.
y’all are just too hung up on old final fantasy. 12 is a masterpiece, the 13 trilogy is very enjoyable, versus 13 was botched thanks to tetsuya nomura, but honestly became a somewhat decent game in 15. 14 is the most successful mmo in the world, and is the only thing keeping square afloat. and, of course, 16 was an obvious masterpiece. final fantasy lost popularity because jrpg’s lost popularity. think of what’s popular right now. western rpg’s like Baldur’s gate and fallout, shooters, live-service games, action games like spider-man, gta, etc. the truth is, people are so absorbed i companies like epic games, bethesda, ea, microsoft, ubisoft, etc. no one is paying the eastern studios any mind, save for From Software. yes, plenty of people still appreciate japanese media, but there are plenty of traditional jrpg’s outside of final fantasy that aren’t anywhere near as popular as western games. dragon quest, octopath traveler, the Tales Of series, the list goes on. i also don’t think the numbered titles really push anyone away. i’ve never met anyone who has thought that the entries are all a consecutive story. it’s never happened, to me at least. at the end of the day, square enix is going to go bankrupt. there are only three other major eastern studios. From Software, Nintendo, and Sony. the thing is, Sony makes more than just videogames, so they’re doing well. Nintendo makes their own consoles with truckloads of exclusives, so they’re doing well. and From Software is doing well only because their games are extremely influenced by western fantasy, and holds very little eastern influence. square enix makes almost only jrpg’s, save for ff16, and people don’t play them anymore. and because of this, square enix isn’t going to be around for much longer. the market simply isn’t in their favor, and there’s nothing they can do about it
I think you put to much emphasis on 13 and claim it is only reason why franchise failed. Like some other people in commentary said FFX was the last good game in the franchise. 11 was MMO so it's not a real FF by default. For 12 they didn't want to waste stuff from 11 so they crammed it into single player game and made it much worse. 13 was bad all around (beside music, music was great). 14 is MMO again and a bad one at launch. 15 was a shitshow from start to finish and didn't give players 1% of what they expected from Versus XIII. With 16 they don't even know what FF is. Management at SE simply went through Steam charts to see what was popular and told developers to copy that. I'm surprised it didn't have a battle royale mode. Less I say about 7 remake the better. Squeenix will do and try anything but what worked in the past.
6 years of Versus XIII development without result, and then kicking the project to Tabata the Crisis Core guy and Tabata turned it around, salvaging everything he can while livestreaming development vlogs and being very transparent with fans. Versus XIII development story indicates that Nomura would draw up with concept arts first then justify the story around them later. Can't think of a reason to justify giving Nomura the director seat again after that. Watching feedbacks from Kingdom Hearts III is giving me the vibes that Nomura has completely lost touch.
Nomura made the only good Final Fantasy in the past 20 years though? Of all the modern Final Fantasies that capture the feel of the FF golden era, FF7 Remake is easily at the top. Meanwhile, FF16, FF15 (Tabata's version of Versus), FF13 and even FF12 were all lackluster.
@@aquapendulum Hey look, another Nomura hater who doesn't know what he's talking about. "6 years of Versus development without result" yeah because they had a skeleton team that was constantly leaking members to work on FFXIII, and an engine - crystal tools - that was extremely poorly optimised for largescale environments or action combat, which made development of Versus and plentiful other projects at Square extremely difficult. Nomura also didn't "kick the project to Tabata", he was forcibly pulled off the project by Square higher ups to work on FF7 Remake, and admitted in a Dissidia livestream that he was under a gag order to not discuss Versus XIII until recently. You also forgot that Nomura directed four standalone Kingdom Hearts games and produced TWEWY during that timeframe. He's an extremely competent and well established director, arguably the best at Square Enix, who was dealt an incredibly difficult hand due to circumstance. Tabata did not turn FF15 around either, it was the worst modern Final Fantasy by far and extremely mediocre compared to what we saw in the early Versus trailers. "Versus XIII development story indicates that Nomura would draw up with concept arts first then justify the story around them later" Uh, do you have a single fact to back up that conjecture? Because we can see from the leaked storyboards of both OG Final Fantasy games and Kingdom Hearts that he has very clear narratives in mind when he draws and creates scenes for his games. Roberto Ferrari, Nomura's close friend who collaboratively worked with him on the art of FF15 complained on his Facebook page that 100s of pages of storyboards he had made for Versus XIII were not used in 15.
@@aquapendulum Forespoken had 6 years of development by the people who made FF15 under Tabata, and it was rancid dogshit and one of the worst performing and least loved games Square Enix has ever produced. FF16 was widely panned as bland and un-Final Fantasy in its gameplay or aesthetic, with a bad storyline. The Quiet Man is Square's lowest rated game in history and an absolute chore to play through. Various Daylife, Triangle Strategy and DioField Chronicle were all forgettable phone game tier rubbish. Foamstars is a desperate attempt at a Splatoon ripoff live service game and Balan Wonderworld's creator is now in jail for insider trading. NONE of these Square games were directed in any way by Tetsuya Nomura. ALL of these games were awful, both as games and for Square Enix as a company. YET, somehow, you still blame Nomura as the scapegoat for Square Enix's problems. Its delusional. You are delusional.
@@scottgerloffs6148 Tabata left Luminous Productions almost as soon as he founded it due to SE not respecting the goal of the studio. Project Athia has zero Tabata involvement and in fact, his name was nowhere to be found in the credits of the final product, not even as a typical EP credit. And the primary reason it failed was SE's experiment with collaborating with an all-Western writing team which produced cringe dialogue, which tanked the game's marketing, which made it flop. Gary Whitta - one of the writers - disowned Forspoken, calling the end product "nothing like" the original pitch, suggesting that the screwup happened some time way later into the production, by which point Tabata was long gone from Luminous.
I didn't like Devil May Cry. I liked Final Fantasy. When Square go back to actually making Final Fantasy games rather than trying to turn them into something they're not, I'll care again.
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord remastered was recently released. The early Final Fantasy games were based on the gameplay found in Wizardry titles.
Make the games SHORTER. that goes for ALL games not just Final fantasy. EVERYTHING has to be made smaller. EVERYTHING is too big. they don't even FIT on our biggest memory cards anymore. you can only have like 5 games MAX on a single TB memory card. it's insane.
Dumb. Then people will complain about not getting their money's worth because they would immediately compare the length with the previous titles and say "is that it?"
That has little to do with how big or long the games are and more to do with polygon counts and open worlds and such that whale budgeted games have become.
14:48 😂. I’m sorry, but Pushing Final Fantasy into Western RPG territory isn’t going to make the series any better after you complained about the franchise taking on Western Traits. So it’s no wonder why Strangers of Paradise fell off for the majority of FF fans.
The problem with modern fantasy is...that anime is not as popular as people think. Most people think anime is kitschy stuff for kids that rely too much on "fan service." The most popular things to come out of japan were from visionaries that actually idolized western things like d&d and america movies. Final fantasy had more in common with silent hill, resident evil, metal gear solid, and dark souls than it did anime. Once it went anime, the normies just dont care anymore. It was way more cool to see tiamat or a beholder in ff than to see aeris and tifa turned into anime girls.
True, but not all anime is cringe weeb stuff. Usually only stuff within the shonen, shoujo, isekai, echi and fan service categories are lame cringe. Then there’s actual good seinen and josei stuff like Berserk, Vagabond, Vinland Saga, Blade of the Immortal, Black Lagoon, Monster, Goodnight Punpun, Tokyo Ghoul, Parasyte, etc, all these stories have much more in common with mature western media.
FF16 looks like a super game, but the DMC gameplay (but not even close to be as fun as DMC unfortunately) and the Game of thrones tone (but still not as captivating as Game of thrones) just don't sound like a Final Fantasy to me. And FF14 is a mmo which isn't everyone cup of tea. It's nice if it's successful, but it's not a solo JRPG so no thx So what is left ? Ho yeah, "FF7" remake, the game they're selling in several pieces with a boring gameplay and a story that looks the same but is not the same... Wth bro.... Square Enix just don't know what they're doing
Ironically enough, FF14 has plenty of options to make it basically fully playable as a Solo JRPG. You can run dungeons and other content with just NPCs if you choose to. And the story, characters, etc, are entirely in the vein of the franchise people know and love. I'd even argue the story is better than any other FF's, with some of the best written villain in later expansion. A lot of people paint this picture in their mind of what the game is, because it's an MMO, that some people even say has no main character, despite that being completely untrue.
They leaned way way way too far into anime. Bring back some of the original Western influences and stop making all of your characters have perfect hair. It's ridiculous I'm so tired of all the little pretty boys
