Yes your review was very helpful when my first yoke had to go back. Actually, as you know, they got rid of the two button push entry into boot loader mode. My original was fine but just needed the firmware reloaded correctly. Updating the firmware is still a bit cumbersome. Keep up the good work… I envy your productivity in adding new and quality content. I am vicariously enjoying your success!
Excellent and measured video. Just what I have been looking for. As a 27 year user of FFB, this is a candidate for my last major upgrade and your vid has been very useful indeed. Thanks a lot Russ!
Another attempt via kickstarter. I am reluctant to throw in a couple hundred euros, given the past of "ffb-yoke-kickstartetism". But i would definitely buy this if released, if only for the double roll forces compared to my simionic ...
If you can wait and are willing to pay a higher price waiting may be best. I think the unit’s design and operation is pretty complete so it may not be that risky.
Hello, thanks for the video. Only a Cessna172.csv configuration is included with the purchase. Do you have any idea how/where to create/find a config file for a B737? When I using the Cessna172.csv, the Yoke makes unexpected hard jerky turns... I just use it for the B737 without a csv file...
Which kind of hat switch is that? 8-way or continuous? I use an 8-way to 'turn my head.' A feature that would be nice is a replacable handle. A handle for boeing, one for corporate jets, etc. Great way to make extra money selling yoke handlles.
@@rbarlow Then I am impressed as well. It would help sales a lot if they added extra switches. They should look at some of the more popular and successful yokes for guidance there. I do think there's a big market for new yokes like this.
I just put my name down for one of these but not holding out to be able to get one soonish... anyone actually managed to buy one of these yet or only reviewers?
I don't know what people's idea of affordable is, but these yokes are still expensive. One is 900 USD and the other is 1300 USD. That's still a lot of money.
@@damiendegrasse I do not share your opinion and I'm an aviation enthusiast. I'm 43, a former private pilot, I flew for the first time at 14 years old, I began simulation on the second edition of Flight Simulator and I've been higly practicing flight sim and aviation all this time. There was a time when the market was OK for Force Feedback with an affordable price. This time is over. Nowadays industries don't have interest in developping force feedback as it's not a wide enough market. The only option remaining is a very specific market with a lot of developpment research etc justifying a price that only few are willing to pay. It is still possible to make affordable force feedback joysticks but the range of customers is not wide enough. Not every aviation enthusiasts are willing to pay 1000$ for a joystick even if force feedback is really a game changer.
Flight sim gear IS expensive. People that build interactive cockpits easily spend 5x on just on the displays and button switches. if you spend that kind of money on a cockpit you are much more willing to spend a grand on the one thing that you'll be holding most of the time and that gets you the extra bit from feeling like playing a game to flying a plane. Especally if you run a VR setup. Something like a flight computer for 737 (where you enter the waypoints of your flight) costs like $800 as a sim gear.
@@bonbondesel Indeed and it's just crazy that there is no market for it! Because A yoke is the only way to play a flight SIMULATION, sure you can use arrow buttons but then it isn't a sim any more. And the force feedback system is a pretty important part of the experience. In many planes, like Boeing airliners for instance you have the controls moving in sync when the other pilot has them or when the autopilot is engaged so without the force feedback, the realism goes out the window.
Shid, you must be new to the flight sim scene 😁, welcome. And yes, $1K is definitely affordable compared to previous options for this range of realism in your home.
No doubt! There are some new Cessna style trim wheels for MSFS that use an axis instead of button press etc. Could be a great combo. Within 5 years I expect all moveable flight controls will be FFB. Including trim wheels rudders dual yokes sidesticks collectives/cyclics etc. BTW I think Desktop Pilots WHEEL seems best for msfs. nOT AFFILIATED. gOOD lUCK
I love the fact that they didn't junk up this build with the usual consumer grade light switches, dinky throttle axis, misplaced ignition switch, goofy LED lights etc. This has the feel of Virtual Fly products which are modular and bulletproof. . They could use an extra button on the left for CWS and perhaps aileron trim on right etc. I also like the fact that the yoke itself could be swapped out for say a rams horn Embraer or Boeing style yoke or even a 3D printed yoke perhaps. I hope all devs realize that modularity is key to flight sim controls at least at the pro/prosumer level. imo Thanks for review Russ!
If you can't afford full force feedback yoke and what you want is mostly the realistic trimming by feel, you can mod Honeycomb Alpha Yoke with a cost of about 50 euro, by installing small linear acuator inside which will allow moving the yoke neutral position forward/backwards.
Hey Russ. I've really enjoyed revisiting your excellent review so that I can better understand this yoke myself. Can I ask, how do you disable the airflow over the aircraft on takeoff? Cheers mate.
Thanks for this! I have been on the PRE-order (Kick Start) list for a number of months waiting for the release. Getting the emails from Fabian with long awaited shipping options and then finally the units going to those first pre-orders. My unit JUST arrived a few days ago and I just integrated it into my sim. WOW! As a rusty old Cessna pilot and current flying with an old friend in his Coast Guard edition Hawk XP (210 HP), finally built my very first flight sim over the past couple months and wanted to go top tier on EVERYTHING. The CLS-60 was the perfect addition for my Hawk XP II sim. I have the full Next Level seat and desk pro, and had to build a custom gaming computer too. Purchased 3, 55" (4K) screens for this is so immersive and the CLS-60 adds so much realism! Tomorrow (as of this writing), the Buttkicker Pro will arrive and is a perfect mate for the NL cockpit, as they provided the post to mount the unit under the flight seat. This will complete the build. Fine tuning all the haptics will take some time, can't wait, been a blast so far. FUN FACT: If you are a Cessna flyer, it is known as a CONTROL WHEEL. You won't find the YOKE reference anywhere in the Cessna handbooks. Again, thanks for your presentation! 👍
FC-100 Flight Console Yoke not INCLUDED! Affordable? Regular price$3,495.00 USD Sale price$2,995.00 USDSale Plus shipment cost $200-$300..... Sorry, this is a joke 😁
Thanks for doing a video on this yoke! I’ve been waiting to see this item reviewed and then I also wanted your opinion on it. Keep up the great work Russ!
Very neat. I have been waiting 40 years for a yoke that would do this. Your explanation of how trim works in real life is spot on and I have tried in vain many times to explain it to non pilots. I have a real C182 and created a sim that closely approximates my actual panel. Mostly I shoot practice IFR approaches and procedures with it. I use a yoke poached from an AST KingAir simulator. It has realistic trim in that there is a separate mechanical spring you can move. Of course like this yoke it is divorced from the computer trim. I turn a wheel like on my own plane. I screwed my self when I added a GFC500 autopilot to my real 182 and to the sim. Well the autopilot trims the plane independently of the mechanical trim. It does seem that this new yoke should accept trim changes from an autopilot. My understanding is that the yoke does not do that yet and all trim is by hand. Correct? I’ll check out the site and see about getting one…
Fascinating yoke!!!! Incredible eye for detail. I've never seen one react in such realistic manner. This is definitely for those that have crazy space. Because that thing is ridiculously big!!! Not practical at all. I feel an the realistic feel. But, practicality goes a long way in simming as well. Regardless, it's a very impressive product. Maybe it'll become smaller as time goes on. Nice review though. I hope the company does well. Because no matter what, we need a lot more options! Especially since one company went under due to internal issues. I'll keep my eye on this company. This yoke is industry changing!
Awesome review as usual Russ! Outstanding graphics to explain trimming via spring loading vs FFB. I think a lot of non flyers don’t really understand what they’re missing. You help clarify that. I wish I had your presentation skills (among others) to have become a reviewer in retirement. I’d enjoy the free stuff😂
How does the track ball strapped to leg work out? I've never even thought of that but it's got me thinking that might be a better setup than a mouse on my desk.
Really happy that more companies get into FFB. I own a brunner yoke. It's really nice, but it cost a fortune. Not that the FliteSim one is cheap by any means, but at least it's cheaper. The main thing that is putting me off though is the weight. It's twice the weight of my Brunner yoke. Might be because it has greater peak force? Either way though, weight is really important since I am using a motion simulator. At any case though, it looks like a cool product and I look forward to see what the future holds!
Hi Russ, Thanks for all your fantastic videos and help over the years. I asked another (RW pilot) streamer if a force feedback yoke made sense for a 737 sim, and he said (effectively) that you don't really get any feedback from the yoke in the real 73, so - no. (I guess too many actuators between the yoke and the control surfaces?) I know you mentioned you tested it out on commercial jets, but any more in-depth opinions on if it is realistic to use with Boeing or Airbus will be greatly appreciated! Is it "just" the higher force needed to move the stick that would be relevant to CA, or is there more? Thanks again!
I fly a c130 and have flown the 737. There is force involved it's more fluid but it's more a feel pressures and not forces if that makes sense though conflicts in terms of physics maybe
When you mention that you must use the trim on the yoke, do you see the actual trim being moved on the aircraft? I wonder if what is actually happening is that it is just holding the elevator position with no force required from the user. I guess that this gives you what you want most of the time with a different method but wouldnt behave the same in some cases where the trim tabs are acting counter to the elevator. Great review Russ.
Yes the trim wheel in the aircraft moves with the trim switch inputs on the yoke BUT if you trim in the sim the yoke doesn't move as it does when using the yoke trim switch.
@@rbarlow Thanks Russ, Hopefully they can get some of that simmconnect goodness going. I am use to trim on stick for some aircraft but I do like my trim wheels in GA. This is looking like a nice product at a reasonable price.
Looks really promising, but based on their own words, 'Affordable ' is very subjective. I'll be interesting to see how affordable. Thx for sharing your views.
Impressive. I've been interested in this yoke since Mark at the Sim Hanger channel reviewed it. btw, I know you're into VR, what's this yoke's impact on the VR immersion experience? I suspect it's quite positive.
Great video and thanks for explaining what you did I learned alot! Now on to the yoke it sounds like the Microsoft Sidewinder 2 joystick from a dacade of more ago I just got for $80... Just in yoke and a more high end form with nice softwear not just relant on Win11 and the FFB isn the sims/game... Which is great especly if you can get one for under $300... But what I want to know if it's plug and play like the side winder or not? Like do you need the soft wear or can it do the sidewinder thing of just working? Also I find it funny the more expensive yokes have a proforamnce more similar to the logitch wingman I just got for S60 new old stock... the sidewinder was just the working stick and cables. Which you can find a wingman for $20 or so working anytime used.
FFB completely spoils you. I rarely use my traditional spring/cam units anymore. I am using the Simionic FFB yoke, and the Bruner for my stick. The only use I have for my Virpil and VKB units anymore is for flying the Airbus, since it is a fly-by-wire aircraft with no flight control feedback, and space sim stuff like Star Citizen.
Hello! how it work with zibo738 in XP12? I have a CFY TQ, now looking for a FFB yoke, one is to feel the trim forces like real, second it would be good to see it moves in sygn with the autopilot.
@@rbarlow ditto here and I'm really stoked I found out before shelling out for the Brunner that that does look good but omg the price... Anyhoo, pulled the trigger on a this yoke and looking forward to expanding the ffb ... Have vpforce rhino joystick and this yoke will complete the mix !!!
Hi! Another New Zealand based flightsimmer like me? Wow cool!I sure am interested in this yoke but might wait until they develop it some more.Did do about actual 230 hours on c152 many moons ago but am thankful this yoke could help me step up from Honeycomb yoke(I’d still want to keep on using my bravo throttle quadrant if I get this yoke).Greetings from manawatu.
@@davidkitchingman2222there are a few nz’ers around ! Greets from chch :) I think that the level of development was at good enough level and Fabian on discord has been super engaged with peeps on discord…yes looks like we is needing dev but at the end of the day it’s met minimum viable product for me …vpforce rhino sw was mainly txt based json files !! But sw has come along leaps and bounds
Thanks for your review. As much as I like the Yoko I have really wanted an affordable FFB. I was also glad to hear your take on the Brunner and its "mechanical feel". Sounds like I would have been disappointed. I've been practicing slow flight and stall recovery with the concept of getting current again. As you indicated it's really a drag (no pun intended) when the spring gives you the same force no matter what maneuver you're completing. I have the Virtual-fly Solo GA1and Ruddo pedals. Hopefully the Yoko cut-out will accept the width of the CLS-60. I'm sure it's too tall, but I can make a cut-out for the depth.
Well done Russ! A measured, objectiv and considered review that got me to pull the trigger and order. Exactly the review that I had been hoping for, so thank you very much indeed.❤
20 years from now, will this yoke still be usable or has it got custom written software inside for each plane and/or sim? Will I be at the manufacturers mercy to have it in the next versions of sim software?
Great review. As I am looking into making my own FFB yoke getting the facts of what force and travel is required is a great bonus of the review. Thanks for that. Normally when you build a FFB device you make it work in accordance with the standard USB HID protocol which make the device plug-and-play even though you may mave some extra settings for it via an external program. That means that all the force inputs are fed from the sim and read by the device that then activates the forces with the servo motors. What appears to happen here is that they apply some *extra* forces (prop wash and propeller rumble at least) that is not a part of what is fed from the HID protocol. I'm just guessing. In that case they are "fabricating" effects that may be accurate, or not... It may also be that the forces *are* in fact fed by the sim in the HID protocol, but of different types. And they choose to enable or disable those specific types in their software with a setting. In that case they are not doing anything special, just disabling some types of forces that normally would all be read by the FFB device. If the sim is producing the correct FFB data in the HID protocol there is no need for any device specific handling of it other setting the max amount of force wanted as far as I can tell. The device just need to sum up all the different types of forcesfed by the sim and activate the motors accordingly and all would be perfect. So what I would love to know is if this FFB device is doing something extra on top of the standard HID stuff.
I just messaged Flitesim about a couple of things I'd like to know: 1. Approximate cost for the CL-120 upgrade for CL-60 owners. 2. Does the CL-60 physically move while the Auto Pilot is engaged like the real planes do?
Yeah I wondered too since Brunner doesn’t have one. When I first got it the self test was more aggressive whipping the yoke from 180 degrees left aileron to 180 right at full aft in an about a second. I guess if you were too close and it went wild the 13,5 pound force could slightly hurt you but the quick shutoff in red seems a bit dramatic.
I currently use a Fulcrum One and this does look very interesting. I fly in VR and use a physical yoke and pedals and VR controllers and voice commands for all other interaction. Because of that the trim inputs in the cockpit must be feed back for this yoke to work for me. After being burnt by Apara with there Kickstarter I am still a little more concerned than before but very interested in what I am seeing. Any chance this will be at FSExpo.
$800 or in that range is not affordable. Is it in the range that people would be willing to pay? Yes, for the people that really want FFB. But that is not affordable. I would say it's more accessible.
Figured it was going to at least 700 dollars. Stepper motors with lbs of force are not cheap motors and aviation yokes are horribly expensive even when in the salvage yard.
I suppose that firmware and software could be written to allow that but there would be a physical limit on turning the wheel plus or minus 180 degrees. I think on a racing sim you’d want the stronger servo in roll.
