My conclusion from trying all these new types of flex nibs over the past few years is that if you want to simply write with a flex nib, what you're looking for is a nib that is actually made of an inherently softer alloy which quickly wants to return to its original shape, like a vintage flex nib or the MAG 650. Once you get accustomed to the nib, you can comfortably write an entire page at full speed as if you're using a regular nib. If you want the best calligraphic effect however, then I would recommend getting what I'd call a "geometric flex nib", where the shape of the nib (cut-outs, elongated slits...) is what allows the tines to spread, not the alloy. These are capable of greater line variation without being sprung, but you need to go more slowly and they take more effort to use. I would never write a full page with these, but I prefer them for writing a birthday card for example, because it really makes the line variation pop in just a couple of words or sentences.
The alloy is not what is primarily responsible for making vintage flex fountain pen nibs flex, although that is a part of it. The alloy and how it has been tempered affect its spring and how quickly the nib snaps back to its original shape. It is mostly how long the tines are, how far back the shoulders of the nib go back, and how thin the nib is. There are additional factors, like whether or not the underside of the tines has been scooped out to make the metal thinner, etc.)
I'd pick the Magna Carta pens definitely, if I needed greater line variation I'd use a dip pen instead, I wouldn't need a line variation greater than that of the 650 or FPR in daily writing anyways.
What a great video Doodlebud! And not just because you put me in it haha I never knew the Noodler's Ahab pen could get that much flex out of it. Interesting option for a cheaper pen if you like to tinker around.
I don't usually write RU-vid comments (especially serious ones), but thank you so much for this video. I love flex nibs but write with a light touch, so having access to a measured breakdown of the pressure needed to get a good flex is invaluable. Deeply tempted to try out the Magna Carta MAG 650 now. I'd also love to know what ink you were using in the MAG 650 - beautiful wet wood and moss color. 💚
Thank you so much for this video, the effort is well appreciated, few others in the hobby are quite as vigorous as you! If you ever have the time and inclination, I'd love to see a comparison of how fine the lines are on these pens, I feel like when we talk about flex nibs we often forget that it's not just about how fat the lines are, but how thin the hairlines are too.
You can so add to this test as you go along with your pen journey. Comparisons are a great advantage in all things fountain pens. Also you should totally laser engrave your 200x mag lense by adding, "not" before and, "just 20x".
I appreciate this video. Thanks! I debated for a long time purchasing a Pilot 912 with an FA nib and ebonite feed. I finally decided to get one, and immediately afterward the Mag 600 hit. And now the 650! It is reassuring to see that my Pilot pen is close enough! 😂
Really ingenious way of testing! This channel is the most scientific of all fountain pen channels! As of a casual fountain pen user, I will probably not do any substantial changes to my pens, so the numbers for the modified pens do not give me an idea, other that, obviously, an out-of-the-box Noodlers's Ahab will not do better than what is shown here. A very small suggestion, if you ever want to do an update of this video, maybe you can measure the weight you put down while writing with the strongest force to get the largest flex from each pen. I suspect that for this reading, the Ahab would have the highest value.
Would be awesome to see your engineering take on fluorescent, UV, and invisible inks! And how certain papers have fluorescent particles so it's harder to see.
I wish they made more pens with those striations like the 650 and the Vacumatic. I’d love to get a restored Vacumatic but it’s not in the cards for my budget ATM
There's excuses why modern say that they can't duplicate vintage, but from what I've seen, it's down to 2 things: modern doesn't make nibs from thin enough sheet, and the shape is different (vintage tends to have shoulders that go halfway down the nib, providing longer tines.) Not generally as thin because they don't want to be replacing them when people, in their lack of experience, spring them, so many today are pretty close to the vintage "Manifold" nibs for writing through carbon copies. No vintage flex has the cutouts seen in many modern versions. But they have longer tines. And the closest to vintage flex in steel is only dip pens, in my experience. Some vintage steel dip pens had flex unlike anything steel today. A similar still made would be from Zebra (their G) or Leonardt. And even some vintage "flex" isn’t close to the pre 1930s "wet noodles." I'd compare a Sheaffer's Balance Junior (with the Junior nib), or the 1940s Wahl-Eversharp Skyline (an example I own) to be "semi flex." Never consider the vintage Esterbrook nibs they called "flex," or "for shaded writing." Might have bounce, but they can snap off a tine trying to flex them. Earlier the chance of a "wet noodle" that'll spring right back, from even horribly splaying it (I splayed a 1912 Mabie Todd Swan on accident to about 90°...) This said, looks like Magna Carta is definitely getting there. Vintage really doesn't need more than normal writing pressure to flex.
I would certainly consider the Magna Carta 650. It is certainly a soft nib and flexes well for normal writing. Also the stacked resin is wonderful. I enjoy these tests a lot. Such work is not seen empirically for nibs. Great job.
if the magna carta 650 es all black I would think of buying one, but fountain pens in those weird color ain't for me, but out of that, love the design and the way it writes
Thanks for another of your excellent posts, one that tackles the 'flex' subject with as much detachment as possible. There are many other points to consider, as you are well aware, but yours is a very intelligent approach to the subject. Bravo, Doodlemate, from Bundalaguah Billy.
So COOL! Maybe as a follow-up Flex-back would be interesting too. Doing a downstroke maxing it out and then going back to no flex. You would need same nib grades though... 🤔
I feel like being back at school and the smart kid did all the work and experiment and me coming in at the end to benefit from the results. Thanks for all the hard work quantifying what you can feel from the Mag 650!
Another great video DB. I have a couple of pens with what is billed as flex nibs, but nothing like the one vintage I already have or the ones you used in the video. I do, however, have another vintage Waterman's Ideal 14 eyedropper on the way. This pen is close to 124 yrs. old. It should be pretty interesting to write with.
You’re awesome. Great idea for a test! Really appreciate the effort for putting this all together for us! I got my first flex nib a few days ago on the back of your review (The Good Blue R615), and I’m loving it. Thanks for everything you do here!
The only flexy nib I have is the Pilot DP-70, they are not meant to be flex nibs but are really soft, especially for a steel nib, the kit is also the best value I have seen for a pen, for 12 dollars I got 2 pens, two con 40's and it is the better then some gold nibs I have, I put it in my cart on a whim and have only had it for a 3 days but I've run the convertor dry twice already, just writing, I don't know why this isn't the go to pen recommendation for a starter,with pilot people talk about the kakuno, explorer and metropolitan, but the desk pen 70 get left in the mix, not saying its perfect, not a fan of the weird scribe shape and the materials are pretty cheap but it legitimately one of the best writing experiences I've ever had, and on just about the cheapest pen I've had
Very, very few flexible nibs can flex safely beyond 2 mm. I would not push any of these nibs to the nearly 3 mm you have. This can cause work hardening of the nib which causes stress fractures when pressure is applied, which causes these nibs to crack.
You could also include non-flex line with, if it starts thiner then the flex at 200g will be bigger than lets say an F nib starting line getting the same result at 200g. Enjoyed the video either way
I did that to my Noodlers Ahab in this video. Just don't go as nuts as I did in this video. Think "less is more" because more was WAY too much when I did it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-STkJZ4-LTiA.html
The Uno XL is my absolute favourite non-fountain pen. Such a great pen. I know you don't like making these videos, but I really appreciate that you do it for us. I might need to put the Mag 650 on my grail list now! How do you like the digital microscope? What's the image quality like on it? I've been thinking about getting one, but I wasn't sure if these would be good enough or not.
Thanks for sharing Doodlebud! Your dedication and effort don't go unnoticed. I think we all appreciate the work you do for the community. I messaged Ensso on Instagram and they may be doing an aluminum version of the UNO XL. I mentioned the weight being a bit much on the Steel XL. One question I had for a possible follow up to this video... What is the minimum line width on the nibs? I'm curious about the percentage they increase from their starting line width.
Why did they stop making flex nibs as standard? Seems like making a flex nib might be harder, so why was it the norm for vintage pens and not modern? You’d think with manufacturing technologies these days, vintage style flex nibs should be easier to mass produce? What am I missing here? (My apologies in advance. Total noob to the fountain pen hobby)
I have this video I did on the Noodlers Ahab. But don't go as crazy as I did. There's a quote from the original Beavis & Butt-Head that Hank Hill gave to the boys which I still use to this day. "It's not what you cut, its what you don't cut." Needless to say they didn't listen to what he said and messed up Hank's yard big time. Keep that in your mind as you work on the feed ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-STkJZ4-LTiA.html
@@Doodlebud thanks a bunch. I'll watch it this weekend and judge whether or not to try something similar. I would love a flex that does not skip, and those I have (FPR and Conkling) are not too expensive, I am not terribly afraid of a failed experiment.
Sir Doodlebud.... Great video.... BUT.... sorry Sir you missed one very important data... The difference between each pens thinnest and widest.... it is the difference in line with of the line that makes the flex writing... Yes the softness is important... but as a example.... I have a stub nib Waterman's it will start at 1,5mm and flex a nother 1mm (numbers are just examples) that is no way the same as a 0,5mm flexing to 2.5mm... Do this make sense? You showed us wich pen is the softest but the widest line is not necessarily the best flex... Still a good video... Keep it up...
I considered that but there are were issues. My 912 FA was custom ground by Josh Lax to have an extremely thin hairline so its not a stock nib that represents 99.9% of other FA nibs. Also my Ahab feed has been heavily modified so the its ridiculously wet and the hairline is wider to ensure it has enough flow for max flex. I did check the unflexed line widths and they were all very close to each other.
@@Doodlebud May I ask when you bought your 912FA? I was talking to a friend and we suspect they changed after a certain date, and mine might be modern?
Does the "softness" measurement matter without the unflexed measurement? If 2x pens are both measuring as 1.0mm on flex @the have pressure point, but one has an unflexed/no pressure line of 0.5mm and the other has one of 0.2mm, then the second has considerably more flex at the same pressure point, no?
Guess not? 🤷🏻♂️ Anyway, thanks for continuing to do these testing videos and for always including an "engineer's" comment or two. Can't wait to see what you come up with next! 😀
Have you thought about a career in forensics or handwriting analysis? I can see you as someone checking if a written document has been forged. Thank you for the meticulous experiment.
With all due respect, wouldn't it be more precise to use the measurement scale printed-face down? You'd need to mirror-flip the measurement clips in editing, but focusing would be easier and the chances of parallax error smaller. Cool video though!
I tried both ways and it was harder to see the grid lines with it flipped over. The edges of the lines but the pens are jagged having the slide face up made it easier to average out the edge when doing a measurement. At higher levels of magnification it would be an issue, but I didn't have an overly high magnification level. The parallax error at this level would be extremely small. I tried both ways and I always got the same width measurement so when with the method that was easiest to do.
@@1968gadgetyo Not at all.. just leave your email address and wait... eventually an email will arrive like mine at 3am European time and if you pay right away ( not two days later it's too late) you will get a Nib in a couple of days...
So vintage nibs flex. People keep asking for flexible nibs. Paying big money for vintage nibs. There aren’t good modern flex nibs. Why aren’t companies jumping on this? Obviously there is a market for flex nibs.
I don't think so. Only pen aficionados like us will be interested in flex nibs. They are a pain to use as an everyday writer. And flex writing is more calligraphic. And the best flex nibs are actually Zebra dip nibs. And it's cheaper. And with flex writing, you need heavier weigh paper, And it takes a long time to fry.
Some vintage flex fountain pen nibs are so soft that you would destroy them with the amount of pressure you're using in this video. It's not a good idea to use a one size fits all approach to testing how flexible these nibs are by using the same amount of pressure when writing with them. Some vintage nibs are able to withstand a considerable amount of pressure, and others aren't.
