Fineas - Test Flight 1 

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that explosion was so cool, poor guys, it was like ava's first flight

Hi from Space Enterprise at Berkeley! I didn't get to go out there this time but I hope you were able to meet some of our team! When you put "idk what to put here" I felt that sooo much too hahaha especially with what I'm working on, even numbers of things helps a lot

There are a couple things that I see that could be changed resulting in a more successful flight test. 1. Bring the hinge for the fins further forward to take some of the “snap” away from the fins at aggressive AOA. 2. Update servo horn from plastic/nylon to a aluminum arm. maybe use 440 rod with ball links. Do not use piano wire and z bends and glue, the aerodynamic forces will be too great and the setup has a lot of slop if glue fails. 3. Limit the travel of the fin or use a expo curve to soften the movement as velocity increases. Slowly increase deflection each flight (All knowledge is from time as a RC builder and pilot not to oversimplify but this is the same control method as RC aircraft)

Great video! Your production value is awesome.

The subnautica soundtrack in the intro caught me off guard :)

0:05 So never go above half full, got it! thanks!

I almost clicked away when you said sponsor. That company seems pretty nice. Also, I thought the flight went pretty well. Flew up, wiggled its fins and had parachute deployment.

My dad worked on rocket guidance systems for General Dynamics starting in the late 1950’s to the mid 1980’s. One system he talked about, he called “dithering” where the fins shook at a small angle with a certain rate, when they wanted to change direction they would just pause at one or the other angles +/- then back to shaking/dithering. You could possibly use electromagnet switching to get rid of the mechanical linkage?

Torquing on the fin pivot point tends to create an ossolation that is difficult to dampen. Put a control pin near the front of the fin and cut a slot in the servo wheel to drive it.

I love how this started off like a documentary and ended like a good old BPS Space video with Joe doing something goofy, Can we have more of this is awesome :-)

THAT WAS AWESOME! I hope the next flight goes all right! Well, unless you can control the pitch, then you go all left too if you want, idk

the shots at 6:33 and 7:01 of it trying to correct itself and falling sideways are amazing, reminds me of shots of sn10 falling

You have a very interesting problem here with the PIDS. You will either need to write an algorithm to adjust the PIDS over the flight during powered lift or when you are flying at low speed you will have no issue as illustrated then when the speed picks up and the controls become super effective your algorithm will overcorrect and it will freak it out. I would say redesigning the fins to move the actuation point all the way to the back and the pivot to the very nose of the fin. Gets the best Mechanical Advantage at high speed and provides better servo precision. Then either go for full-on speed for the tune only or sacrifice high-speed control unless you can switch the rates between the two. Then the rocket looks like it should be great!

Ok I usually never comment but the RU-vid algorithm NEEDS to know this is the stuff I'm looking for. I've been following you for more than a year! 10/10 👍

I really appreciate the use of Subnautica music with your video. Love it! Would the rocket perform better if you have moving flaps on the back of the fins vs having the whole fin actuating?

Amazing video Joe!! Cant wait to see the next flight of Fineas!! Loved the new concept of aerodynamic guidance and also loved the new way of vlog type coverage!

These new videos are something else man. You are incredible! One of my favorite creators out there man

I love your content and always hope the best for you guys!

I don’t know how you do it but that stabilized tracking footage is CLEAN. Sooooo satisfying to watch

Great work Joe, looking forward to the next launch 🚀

Your grit, curiosity and ingenuity continue to amaze me Joe.

This is a next-level project. Well done!

Amazing video! A few months ago, I thought about creating a fin controlled model rocket, but didn't see too much content on such a goal being achieved. I gave up on that project before I even started it. Now, with this video recently being released, I plan on pursuing this project again and learning as you go along! Can't wait to see the progress that is made along the way!

I think having the fins mounted to the servo is a weakness. Have a passive pivot point at the leading edge, but drive them laterally from as close to the trailing edge as possible for better leverage and stability. Yes, I mean having the linkage exposed. Great video, thanks.

I'm out in Ridgecrest CA and it's just amazing that all this cool stuff is happening right next door to me!

This waa genuinely awesome, congrats on a successful flight and recovery.

Amazing Work cant wait to see the future of this project!

This channel sparks joy, thanks Joe

When the remove before flight tie came out I lost it. Great video and good luck on the next fin control flight.

"Launching rockets in the Mojave makes you wish for a nuclear winter." Man, it's beautiful out there. And so many folks working on their passions that there is a dedicated site to do so. I didn't know such a place existed. Very cool! I really enjoyed the video, Joe. Thanks!

Holly Flight Recorder! 9:30 this is the bestestest tie a beardless guy can wear! Congrats on the flight+analysis, can't wait for the next espisode.

The work you do is so inspiring! keep it up

Incredible! GL on flight 2!

First idea out of my head remembering V-2's... don't move the whole fin. Try hard mount main fin with servo driven tail flaps. Also check directionality of motion with the directionality of the servo rod movement. Pull, not push. Pushing the rod will bend fighting aerodynamic forces. If it needs to operate in both planes of motion use dual rods. Use metal geared servos against such high aerodynamic forces. Also suggest hinge be multi-sectioned (Like piano hinge) with 50 percent of total hinge width pins. (Note: during fin construction, bend pin ends over on both ends into slots top and bottom of flap, glue in place.) Leave space for vibration of flap. Even though you think the fin will be solid to the fuselage, vibration will close the flap gap and the flap will rub on the tube. I missed the build video for the rocket. Building a chassis for the servos to sit in that is much more stable than just mounting to a bulkhead. Next I'd limit the movement to 11.75 degrees in each direction. At the Max-Q speeds your rocket is flying, you don't need much deflection for roll control.

Dude, I love in Mojave I saw the video of you driving in on the south side, love it. Haven't watched video yet, live your channel.

That point about heat making the joints fail reminded me of Challenger's failed O-rings in the cold. Great video bro!

Oh, buddy. That was a well made video and I hope you're not discouraged by the mechanical failure of the fins. Great progress was made here.

That sugar motor that blew up was a P-5,000 KNSB motor . 8" Dia.

nice uncontrolled disassembly Joe. Well done on the first flight. Hoping you got all the info.

I'm getting strong subnautica vibes from the intro music. This slaps, amazing job, fits perfectly.

This has got to be the coolest channel I subscribe to. Any channel that can genuinely make me excited by saying "and now it's time to review the data" is definitely doing something right. I'm so excited to watch you find and overcome all the challenges in fin control. So cool. One question: Even though the fins failed, can you tell if the control system was working by comparing the roll-rate measurements with the control system outputs? I.e. would it have worked if the fin joints has not failed?

Hey, Joe. First off, thank you for having the stones to post not just your many successes, but your failures as well. Not everyone has the ability to do that and you deserve thanks for doing so. Ok, secondly…. On mounting your fins. How about mounting the fin to a very small flat piece of aluminum that exactly matches the portion of the fin closest to the body of the rocket? Then you could weld a little shaft onto the plate and pass it thru a bearing or some type of seal/bushing that could keep it in the correct orientation and not allow it to wobble around once the air pressure against it increases during the launch event. I would also consider mounting the fins to the plates by screwing them from the shaft side and use some kickass epoxy or other adhesive of your choice. Having the metal control shafts would let you connect them to your servo horns (which it sounds like you are going to be replacing with aluminum for the next flight!) and eliminate any plastic or other parts that could potentially pose a risk of failure in high temp situations. Just think if you were to try and fly that thing in July or August down there in So Cal… it may have just melted right there on the rail! This is almost December so there are not many better weather patterns being offered by Mother Nature than what you were given. I learned my lesson with non metal servo horns when I was racing my 3D printed catamaran. My steering servo horn stripped the little teeth around the output shaft of the servo (who puts a metal geared high torque servo together using a plastic servo horn? Um, ahem, err, ok besides me I mean?) during a high speed run which did not end well when it failed suddenly and very completely…. 70mph into a stone wall at the edge of the lake. Wall vs 3D Boat. Wall 1, Boat nil.

FAR is such a great place for experimental rocketry. Those guys out there are always great. If you're ever doing anything with canards, the solid rocket team at San Diego State University has flown and the liquid team is planning to fly a rocket with forward control surfaces.

im kinda new to this sort of thing, but i would recommend 3d printing a tray for the servos that you could epoxy into the fuselage of the rocket, but overall awesome concept and I hope to see more.

Great first flight!! Double post the fin connection to the servo shaft and it won’t slip on you. Can’t wait for next flight!! Cheers!

I was see on the Advanced Model Rocket site that sugar motor explosion , and was not expecting you was next to it , amazing , jut be safe. Wery cool that your rocket survived that blast.

really freaking cool hobby you have here man, would be awesome to see you launch one of these and talk to you after about it. Rarely do you get to see someone with this much drive, talent and intellect create amazing things step by step but let alone in person. Looking forward to purchasing your flight computer and taking my small rocket hobby to the next level!

It seems that the big sugar motor threw us a very nice party ...!!! Nice work.

The subtle whine like a large tanker falling over in silence as it fell was so weird but amazing. 6:48

Great video, that tie is a must buy

The decent was surreal. It was like a movie. Great job man.

“Never let your gas tank below half empty” half empty kinda guy I see.

Awesome job !! And great edit !!!! Fix the issues and back to the air !!!

Enjoyed it tremendously, thanks

JoeyB -legend! Love the sponsor segment at the end also!

As always awesome well explained, well shot, well edited content. Though, as someone that has just started watching your channel over the last two months I feel like I want more context for the overall project goal. I know you are eventually trying to build a small space worthy full featured rocket, but I really am curious just how all of these individual test project amount to this goal.

Holy crap! I've been out in the Mojave doing geophysical survey work for the past month, and am about to head out tomorrow for another three weeks in the desert. Are you guys planning on more tests in that time frame because I'd love to be able to spectate live if you are. Also, my team were all wondering what those explosions were, now I can't wait to tell them what was going on. :)

Good rocket, good flight, good video! One idea is that if you're doing more flights out in the hot desert, do a radiant heat test to ensure that this doesn't happen again and that everything else can withstand the desert sun Which is to say, stand the rocket up, stick a temperature sensor in it, get some cheap heat lamps, point them at the rocket, get it nice and hot, and see if anything fails or melts or gets soft that shouldn't

Great... Love your work

i find it funny that my immediate mental solution to the plastic bits softening was to have a reflective foil blanket over that part of the rocket that would fall away at launch. your solution is much, much more practical and actually would work.

The real question after the failure is actually what parts resolidified after cooling. The launch video does show the failure almost at maximum altitude, the fins ( what little action/reaction there was ) looked good until melt slipage. Option 7) Replace all linkage/parts with milled metals/carbonfiber and overkill the design, then fly again with the same flight program.

Glad to see another pilgrimage to FAR!

I wonder if that’s the same team that just broke the record a few days ago!! Great video.

"I don't think it worked, but that was great!" I agree completely;-) Very cool!

This is why you should support BPS on patreon

I mean, all things considered, this is one of the best flights you've had.

Lets goo. SO EPIC. Fineas be flying real high. Imma watch this video 3 times, cya.

That Subnautica music at the beginning of the vid hits hard! 👌😩 Great Job!

I love your tie!

Thank you for uploading

"When it fails, it fails straight" Same.

I was waiting for this one!!!

You are really good at editing videos.

Reduce aerodynamic forces on servos and links by using control surfaces on fins instead of using "flying" fins. Also, why such aerodynamically terrible fins instead of 3D printed airfoils?

Great type of video

This is my new favorite video! It's even better than Thoomp Flight 1 (which now is my second favorite video)

Happy thanksgiving Joe!

launch flight descent landing more data good job Joe, things are coming together more and more as you go along

That sus sound effect tho, caught me off guard, blasting in laughter.

VERY EPIC, CONGRATS JOEY B

Love how the webcam is taped over You're not alone on that one

It seems to me a control surface on the back of a fixed fin would be a bit more robust solution and have a much less wild failure mode. But I've only flown subsonic.

what is your altitude accuracy? I'm wanting to make a topographic map of my ranch and curious if i had to go the rtk route? opinion?

I am super excited to be joining the BPS Internship this December. My uniform is on the way!

Interesting idea! The fin deflection should in my opinion be limited to something like maybe 5° and the pivot could maybe be altered to 2 points one being the aft hinge point and a ring conector which is connected to all the fins near the leading edge one servo or gear would turn the ring connector. The ring would be centered by 3 or more small cartrage berrings to keep friction minimized. These are my 2 cents, keep them or toss them that is your choice. CAR cert 3, NAR cert 2 DE VE9GIS

Heat seeking missiles. As i was thinking of that extra fins near the top would help too.

Awesome video!

I have been working on a similar design for my rockets. (Except they are a lot smaller) I think this is awesome!

Hey Joe, awesome video! I'm no expert at this, but could it be rather a failure of the servo at the first place, not the joints? Also, what if you have used construction not like in F-35 horizontal tail, but like in commercial airliners, so the area would be much smaller, hence the force exerted on the construction would decrease significantly?

Brilliant work. A few questions: 1. What plastic would you consider as 'high temp' for this application? 2. How have you constructed the rocket payload so that you can remove it after a flight to work on it? 3. Have you considered going to hyrbrid rocket motor for the greater control?

That sugar rocket served as a lovely reminder that rockets are still just bombs

Love the tie!

Wait, so I'm not clear: do you want all of the fins to move in a coordinated way? If so, it seems like controlling them with individual motors could cause you a bit of a headache. Have you thought about mechanically linking all of the shafts for the fins together with e.g. a ring-shaped rack and pinion kind of thing? Curious about your thoughts on something like that vs individually controlled fins!

Tusk task…. Your gas is never half empty 😉 you simply only have a half a tank. And wow you are every bit a cinematographer as a rocket engineer (being serious this is amazing!) happy thanksgiving!

Knew I recognized subnautica music! Love when I find people that enjoy that game as much as I do!

Very cool! Do you think attaching the servo to the top of the fin would mitigate the possibility of failure? It would probably give you less authority I suppose.

Great experiment!

I love the tie!

Your fins had an encounter with Max-Q!