Fintan O'Toole - Borders and Belonging: British and Irish Identities in a Post-Brexit Era 

This man is a genuine decent human being. Non political when it comes to living together peacefully. Honesty and integrity and respect

Fintan is amazing. I have heard no-one else make this much sense. I think the U.K. government would be well advised to ask for his help.

I love the idea of shared space and embracing of diversity. It allows for the concept of Irish identity to flex and change

Excellent lecture, ending with a very hopeful vision of Northern Ireland. Great insight.

Very interesting and even poetic presentation of a complex issue. I learned a lot. Thank you for sharing.

Brexit is itself a threat to the union. So it is kind of ironic that brexit rhetoric is often accompanied by jingoistic flag waving.

That was a very interessting lecture.

I hope Arlene, Dodds and Sammy were in the audience listening.

Best sense on Brexit I've heard.

Wow. A cloud clearing storm of insight and candour.

Terrific, onformative lecture. This is one smart cat.

You present the issues of Brexit in different (to me) terms that are logical, make good sense, and quite frightening in a purely "nationalistic" sense. Thank you.

It's hard to be English when you know that the majority of people around think in a completely different manner.

Fintan O'Toole. Brilliant man, brilliant mind. Just discovered him. This gives me the hope that things will turn out for the better because he speaks a common sense that is very evident if we all chose to admit it. What do's it mean to say one is European. An issue to European identity. Nigel Farage has a lot to answer for.

This is amazing. Challenging and inspiring, the answers to the questions almost more than the speech itself. The images of the sore tooth, the broken umbrella and the tablecloth trick very convincing.

Great lecture. Regarding the subject of the English and their identity, I've made two particularly noticeable observations during my lifetime. First, if you watch footage of the 1966 world cup, you will be hard pushed to spot a St. George's Cross being waved. In those days, the English almost invariably flew the union flag. Second, there were national holidays and street parties across England for the queen's 25th, 50th and 60th coronation anniversaries, yet barely a mention in the English media in 2007 when the 300th anniversary of the union of England and Scotland took place. I think these observations fit in well with Fintan's talk.

just. wow!. What an articulation of the challenge. ..ok time to read the irish constitution...

riveting lecture

Solidarity is the strongest drug

Time to watch '"I'm alright Jack!" again.

Great lecture. About 8 years ago a friend of retired from the UK Home office at the age of 65. He viewed himself as 'British'. He was an educated guy, had handled declassifiedfiles from WW2. Surprisingly to me he still needed me to try to explain the Troubles to him. But he commented on how so many of his younger collegues viewed themselves as 'English' rather than 'British'. He didnt like that change, it wasnt Imperialist. Just that he thought all parts of the UK were equal. He also enjoyed the EU at the time. Ive lost touch but hope/know he was a Remain voter.

How does the "silent secession" of England from the Union look in Wales? In Scotland and Northern Ireland the movements for secession are not silent, but clamorous, albeit sharply divisive, and will undoubtedly succeed in the end. This is not so in Wales, where a particularly strong and distinctive cultural identity appears to feed political nationalism very sparingly indeed.

So English devolved assembly? Where would we put it?

On a different point I disagree wirh his point about ppl not reading the constitutional change. I am a border child. Family on both sides. Was literally on a bridge over the line when the radio told me of hhe 1st IRA ceasefire. I am proud of the amendement which gives an 'entitlement' to Irishness. I work with many ppl who view themselves as primarily British or N.Irish. Personally I feel (in line with the GFA) they should be allowed to choose how they are identified.

Regarding the comments at the end regarding how Britain won WWII and were then worse off following that, it is analogous to the end of the second Punic War. Carthage was making bank 10 years after the war, offering to pay off a 50 year debt early. Didn't end too well for them mind you...

Scotland is a nation of multiple identities; English Scots, Polish Scots, Pakistani Scots. Anyone who chooses to make Scotland their home is Scottish. We can only retain that reality by independence.

I'm a plastic paddy. Born in the England to Irish Catholic parents, had part of my childhood in both the Republic and the North before we immigrated to Australia. Have served in the UK and Australian military and alongside the Irish Army on a couple of occasions in UN operations. I often feel conflicted between my Irishness, Britishness and Australian-ness. But an observation I would make of many Irish and the Australians. They can only see any pride the British - and specifically English - have in their history as a yearning for empire, a potential threat, barely concealed racism or a belief in unearned social superiority. None of these are (generally) true. The Brits and specifically the English have a lot to be ashamed of but a lot to be proud of too. Do they selectively draw on the more honorable parts of their history to reassure themselves. Yes. But no more than the Irish or Australians.

I am afraid that nationalism has a strong and long history with conflict and war. That is the value of the EU, we are all Europeans, no need for conflict. De Zavela (2009, 2016; 2018) has shown that there is a meaningful concept called collective narcissism. Collective narcissism relates to a belief that one's group is superior, and have entitlements. It is associated with prejudice, xenophobia, self-deception and self-delusion. The Reese Mogs of this world score strongly in this world. They hark back to the glorious Empire. 33% voted to leave because of immigration (Godwin, 2016) and those who lived in the countryside, who had low levels of education, and lower IQ, and who were older and white, were the people who were more likely to vote. Most of these actually wanted a no deal brexit, which is economic suicide. These people are also easily influenced by the daily mail, express, and telegraph. They are easily manipulated by the billionaire owners of the media. Part of the problem for the economic deprivation of the north of England go back to Thachterism of the 80s, who preferred london, and the financial services sector. There has been no investment by the UK government in regions, nor importance attached to society, and reducing inequality. Globalism does produce more profit. However, this profit increasingly is put into the pockets of the superrich owners of capital. Many have been left out, with little means of redistribution of these profits. Education has disapproved greatly, due to lack of investment. So older people are angry, especially. A great talk by Finton. He is very highly regarded in Ireland.

For the DUP and NI unionists, clearly the union means something very specific but that is not at all what the union means to the English. For the English, the resurgence of talk about the "precious union" etc is primarily a reflection of the motivation for Brexit in many voters minds, that being a persistent inability to form an identity, an ego and vision for the future since the fall of the British empire. Like it or not and regardless of their very poor understanding of their own history, the English do deep down believe that they are an exceptional people who did and should still be ruling the world and the fact that they don't is primarily down to foreign interference, be it immigration or the EU. To leave the EU and go it alone as an "independent trading nation" and "re-engage with the commonwealth" may be laughable to us from an objective POV but from their POV it is simply a statement of intent to re-assert that past influence on the world, and to attempt to do that through Brexit and in the process lose the colonial medals that are the peripheral British nations would be an immediate humiliation and repudiation of that goal. The English feel very self conscious that if they were to leave the EU and then rather quickly Scotland and NI were to find themselves shaded in different colours on a world map leaving a fairly embarrassing nub of England and Wales and a raft of International interest in an independent Scotland and united Ireland, they would be left looking like a joke rather than looking like an aggressive, forceful national ready to reclaim it's position as a superpower - which is what English voters are expecting and what they believe will ultimately result in better employment prospects, filling in of potholes, better staffed hospitals etc in their home towns.

In another lecture O'Toole said "We all thought British imperialism was over, but this a last stage of Empire called zombie Empire" Big giggle from NI audience. The following can be checked out in the Guardian, Britain's most respected liberal paper. Prior to EU free movement of labour a UK fieldworker was paid £100 a day and seasonal labour was brought in on six-month visas from places like Morocco. Because the EU allowed free movement of labour, the agricultural combines went out to Eastern Europe and to quote a Polish lady “Recruited people off the streets - adding “and when we got here, there was no housing or school places for us”. Why? Because they were/are paying them £40 a day! The East Europeans took it because for six days in the UK a fieldworker gets £240 - in Romania a Doctor gets £300 a month! Also they were able to bring their families to the UK to benefit from better housing, education and health care. There was so much cheap labour available from Eastern Europe, the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme which had worked for over 50 years since 1948 was unnecessary. British agricultural workers in East Anglia found their wages cut by 60%, which they naturally would not and could not afford. They were short of houses and schools were filled up with the immigrants’ children, their doctors were having to employ up to 3 interpreters per surgery, costing the British health service £40 an hour each. To add insult to injury the British media repeat the BRITISH MEDIA is telling everyone they would rather live on benefits than work! The BBC show executives of the agricultural combines standing in fields pleading “I need 1000 workers to harvest this crop and no British workers will do the job”. Quite true, but what the lying bastards would not say was that Brits could not take a 60% pay cut. I will not say a word against the East Europeans as people there is nothing wrong with them. The issue is that their presence was engineered by business concerns for their shareholders profit. There was a perfectly functioning labour market before they came it was just that big business could not make as much money out of it. O’Toole, along with every remainer in Britain is screaming “The British people are xenophobic, racist, backward looking imperialists!” Why don’t they face up to the fact that big business is using EU rules to crap on the British working class and laughing all the way to the shareholders meeting. Why is an agricultural worker finding his wages cut by 60%, half the children in the local primary school non-English speakers, shortages of housing and medical facilities a "zombie imperialist?" Most people would say he had more immediate concerns.

Not sure how the union came about as a conscious determinant of empire

So it seems as if a hard Brexit is the best solution to help the English feel a reality check on their perception. Problem will be that they are going to blame others for their disaster. EU citizens living in England will have a tough time of alienation and violence.

Mr O'Toole when you say that 21st century Irish national identity is multiple , a matter of choice and subject to change ! . I'm afraid what you are talking about is citizenship , a political concept , like a passport . National identity , any national identity , is the cultural spirit particular to the land from which it emerges . I fear what we are seeing in Ireland is not so much the Irish national identity moving forward in any natural way but rather the inferiority complex ridden , apathetic citizen state exchanging one foreign master for another , a master that cares not for national identity because it has none , cares not for home because it has none , has only concerns for territory and the making of more consumers and producers . You are correct in saying that the ugly face of English nationalism is a symptom of the question of nationalism not being addressed , lets hope that we all here on this island address it properly when , not if , it's our turn because THE EUROPEAN IDENTITY isn't actually an identity in any real sense . Oh and one last thing those cultural myths , those stories that we tell ourselves are TRUE because we have immersed them within ourselves over centuries if not millennia , they are at the heart of where our national/cultural identity springs from . Of course we can choose to reject such an identity but it cannot be replaced by something else .

Poor Wales. Left out of the discussion entirely.

Interesting talk. What's happening is a healthy realization that governance is best which more local; and that the elites (whether in the government, media, academe, or the "social justice" establishment) are in general the enemies of this very natural realization.

Fintan is so articulate and his ability to make historical comparisons are really interesting. But he's such an out and out pro EU socialist it actually makes a lot of what he's saying irrelevant. The way lefties poke fun and are indifferent to Brexit is a disgrace. Ordinary people voted for it because they felt that immigration had played a significant part in negatively affecting their communities over a long period of time. I'm not arguing for the Tories handling of Brexit but articulate political commentators have to acknowledge this is something very significant in all of this.

As an Englishman I can assure the 'Union' means nothing to me. It is no more than a leftover from the days of Empire and conquest. I want Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales to go their own happy way. I do not want an English Parliament (or assembly) plus a UK Parliament plus an EU Parliament; how much money do you think should be expended on the mechanics of governance? The construct that is the UK has outlived its miserable existence. What I do want however, is for the English to be able to find their own way in the world without remaining or jumping into another ill thought out "Political Union' called the EU. If we fail we fail but we will not be part of a fractious EU political union. The way this argument is pushed one would believe that the EU is some new miraculous and happy Union; it is not, and is unlikely itself to last another 20 years never mind as long as the United kingdom!! We should trade as independent countries; we do not need to share cultural values or anything else and we most certainly don't need European 'values' rammed down our throats.

Very interesting perspective.Flawed by the usual progressive motifs, the future and personal identity, and choice. Tradition as reactionary. He does say something interesting, which is that there emerging desire øf many people to retain their specific English identity is not a bad thing. But in his discussion of the distinction between Englishness and Britishness, he fails to note that for the people from commonwealth countries, their Britishness comes from an shared identity as subjects of the Empire, which makes their “Englishness “ very superficial, marking them off from the race that once ruled them. Further, Islam tends to make then reject the tradition that has made the the English what they are. Muslims tend to mask this more fundamental difference by pretending to identity with “people of color” because a Christian Nigerian or Jamaican comes with disposition to accept English traditions that is lacking in all but a handful of Pakistanis.

Up until women won the vote they tried to compare themselves with Athens. After that they thought they were better.

Fintan O'Toole always sat on my double edge sword because of his PC journalism. However; after watching this I have changed my mind. I worked in London in the past and one thing which really struck me was how the Irish Protestants and Irish Catholics were so intertwined and got on so well together in the London Irish community. The English sure as hell had no time or inclination to deduce between who was or was not from the UK, we were all lower class Irish and we could care less. I honestly believe violence will return to this Island on a scale we have never seen before because the children of the Irish paramilitaries and Unionist paramilitaries are a different Beast and when let loose for a good enough reason will make their forefathers look like girl guides. The English of course will take no notice until it reaches its own shores. History repeats and it is rather sad.

Incorrect on England wanting the empire back, we are part of a small Ireland on the edge of Europe. Yes been punching above our weight on the world stage since the war but we want the same as you, to rid ourselves of all these unruly neighbours and concentrate on making England a great place for the English. Pretty much the same as the Irish want for Ireland.

Wales = Andorra

What Brexiteer has ever expressed the "Fantasy" of the British Empire coming back? I've not heard this outside these type of statements made by Remainers and people like Fintan O’Toole. The British Empire has not existed for a long time , beyond most peoples memory and remembered only as a historical curiosity.

The three choices of national identity only applied to northern Ireland in an attempt to eventually get an Irish nationalist majority in the north.

We don't want the Japanese running the English car manufacturing industry, forced on us by the UK parliaments obsession with globalization at the expense of the English working people. The French still have a car industry have they been protecting it? I think we are as capable as the Japanese at producing English cars again, its English workers producing these Japanese cars, might take a while but I am sure we will be proud of the result IMO.

The Irish did not fight in the war. In “That Neutral Island,” the eponymous neutral island is of course Ireland, the only predominantly English-speaking nation not fighting on the Allied side in World War II

Too much discussion and focus on nationalism and too little about day to day practicalities. As happened in the UK, the EU is responsible for a sudden alien cultural invasion that has caused significant and rapid change to Ireland's indigenous culture. All this is being done without proper engagement with all Irish people. It is probable that in time a resentment will develop that will get up and bite the elite class, just as it did in the UK. Universities might find a way to accommodate discussions of this presently taboo subject and not try and paper over it.

Celtic Freedom from Londonistan.

Your audience had the appearance of a mono-cultural society we in England live in a multi segregated society.

Brexit is a right wing coup, that unfortunately worked, and is being taken serious by the entire continent

I'm sick of hearing about Ireland. North or south. Nothing but trouble. Mainland Brits don't even recognise NI as part of the UK. They are like a lost British tribe that has gone native. We have nothing in common with them. Pity Ireland cant slip its moorings, just drift away, and let them fight it out between them.

Funny how it’s ok to be Irish but not ok to be English. The border question has been stoked up by the preening Varadkar who has used it for his own political purposes. Firstly, to display his credentials as a “One Ireland” man. Secondly, he thinks he will get points for bashing the old enemy.

So Irish Nationalism = good/normal/healthy and English Nationalism = bad/abhorrent/sick. So seeking Irish unity is a noble cause and seeking UK independence is a low/base endeavour. So protecting the ROI from brexit is imperative whilst respecting the position of Northern Ireland within the UK is inconsequential. Wrapping these sentiments up in fancy words does not make them any less negative and corrosive. Rather than seeking to understand the rise of English (and Ulster) Nationalism why not look at the death of Irish Nationalism, how did Sinn Fein become EUnionists?

The English do "epic" Mr. O'Toole, we'll leave the "small" - as you put it - to the Irish.

Open minded person here but you’ve lost your way..I’m Northern Irish ☘️ have yea a problem with Protestants.. away with yourself you have no Idea R.E.M. 1690 is supreme. Freedom for all who love humanity

Being told what we think by Ireland again. A fiercely Nationalist Ireland pontificates about what the English should be thinking. The Scottish issue is ignored as is the anti democratic, totalitarian and corporatist protectionism of the EU.