Queen Alyssane is probably the best written character in the book for me. One of her last scenes where she rides her dragon for the last time and comes down crying because she knows it’s the last time is genuinely heartbreaking
I rarely get emotional, I did so twice while reading F&B, and the first was when I was finishing the last of Alysanne, that pictire of her older really got me 😢
That period of the book is the one Martin wrote more recently and I think it shows. The other characters who can compete with Queen Alyssane for best writing are also around the same stretch of the story: her mother (Queen Alyssa), her aunt (Queen Rhaena) and her brother/husband (King Jaehaerys).
@Bookborn Hell is real, demons are real, the devil is real, God loves you, and does not want you to end up in hell. Give Jesus a chance, he payed for your sins on the cross, so you don't have to. Your soul and salvation is worth infinitely more than you can ever imagine. Do not carelessly, ignorantly or foolishly throw it away. Turn to Jesus and he will save you and those who you know, from the fires and torments of hell Look into God's true word (The Holy Bible) as it is a love letter from God to you, so you can be saved (it will be the most important thing you ever read/look into) For those who do not believe or unfortunately believe in false religions and doctrines, the evidence/proof you seek, is only a click or search away
RE: How George RR Martin writes such great women characters- --George Stromboulopoulos: "Another thing that's interesting about your books...I noticed that you really write women well, and really strong. How do you do that? Where does that come from? --George RR Martin: "You know... I've always considered women to be people."
The multiple sources and unreliable historians is what makes it great for me, haven't read a book thats written like an in-universe history book before.
"Come no closer," warned Ser Gyles Morrigen. "Any man who lays a hand upon our king and queen shall die today." Lord Rogar was dismayed. "Sheath your steel and move aside," he commanded. "Have you forgotten? I am the King's Hand." "Aye," old Sour Sam answered. "but we're the Kingsguard, not the Hand's guard, and it's the lad who sits the chair, not you." My favorite passage in the whole book kinda.
If we're sharing passages :) "...Gwayne Hightower, second in command of the gold cloaks, rushed to the stables, intending to sound the warning; he was seized, disarmed, and dragged before his commander, Luthor Largent. When Hightower denounced him as a turncloak, Ser Luthor laughed. ”Daemon gave us these cloaks,” he said, “and they’re gold no matter how you turn them.” Then he drove his sword through Ser Gwayne’s belly...."
@@VinnieMF if my memory serves me well, i'm pretty sure Gwayne and Criston are on the way to Harrenhal the last time we saw them in the s2, if Rhaenyra and Daemon attack KL in s3, i don't see any chance we would watch Gwayne Hightower book version's death...
@@Bookborn Your reaction in that live when he said it was so funny but I can relate. Confirmed time travel in asoiaf was also traumatic to me back in 2016 😂
Your "optmism"( not really optmism, but a just a positive realness about everything) is such a breath of fresh air, because YES i love fire and blood, and if george wants to publish the part 2 instead of main asoiaf, i will still love it and I will BUY IT
@@Bookborn i dont think George would release either F&B 2 or Dunk and Egg 2 before TWOW as those 2 would spoil some things meant to be revealed in TWOW
@@ihuh1000 I agree! and basically came to the comments to say the same thing. I want Blood & Fire BAD, but I think some of the reveals about summerhall & things will be best in Winds, from Bloodraven & Bran, with more context later from B&F, then the later D&E books.
GRRM said that the version of Viserys I in House of the Dragon is better than the version he wrote in the book. Honestly so much is gained in adaptation sometimes and Viserys I in the show is one of the best characters in the ASOIAF universe and one of best performances as well. In the book you just know of him, but in the show you follow his entire reign and see the person who the maesters considered uninteresting. You might wanna check out the show.
Just wanna add my support to this comment, House of the Dragon is an amazing detailed adaptation of Fire and Blood, and expands on the text and has some unexpected decisions that I found really thrilling as a F&B enjoyer. Even if you have no desire to watch Game of Thrones, I would say check out HotD!
@@TheKillaShow It’s still impressive considering that most adaptations tend to lose complexity, not gain them. If they hadn’t put the effort Viserys could have been a fat fool and no one would have cared because no one expected more.
@@jimboslice6367 Mmm well he certainly wants to raise Jon Snow to Lord of Winterfell to be sure, Stannis isn't a stranger to working with bastards. But I didn't say they were the same character, just have a lot of parallels.
Another interesting thing about the Baratheon-Targaryen connection, is that Robert’s (and Stannis and Renly’s) grandmother was a Targaryen. One of the reasons he was chosen to become king out of the main rebels who overthrew the mad king, was because they felt him being partially Targaryen would make him look more legitimate to Westeros. Also, would love a video on how you felt about the Greens and the Blacks, both really compelling sides with lots of interesting characters. For me the Greens are one of the most interesting families in all of George’s ASOIAF world
It kind of leans to the history of kinslayers being cursed too, from the moment the hammer killed Rhaegar, Robert lived the most miserable life for being a king.
@@GreyMagee74 Could be, although I don't think Martin intended it that way. It's only his second-cousin (or however it's called in english), and they probably never viewed each other as family.
@Fenix-lr6ez maybe, maybe not. It's just one of those amazing wrinkles in the universe. And with their relations, we won't know until George says so, or there is some spinoff story about the Rebellion where we get their POVs and get that glimpse into their mind about each other. (we definitely won't be getting this sadly😂). I would think they did call each other cousin to a point because they grew up together till Robert went to The Vale since Steffon was Aerys' other best friend and was a part of his Small Council till he died. That's just my opinion based on the facts we know from the stated Canon i could be completely wrong.
@@GreyMagee74 oh I didn't consider Steffon being in Aerys' council, true. Although wasn't Rhaegar like 8 years older than Ned and Robert? If so, Rhaegar would double Robert's age when they were together, so dunno if they had any relations. But as you say, we'll never know for sure unless George decides to dig deeper into it. Cheers!
Did I miss that their grandmother was a Targaryen in the main series?? Probably since I didn't think much about history lol. I was on team Black...I know there was a lot of reason not to be buuutttt still lmao
For Fire and Blood II - Martin actually said in a blog post on September 9th he had worked on it a bit this year so I think he intends to release it after Winds but before A Dream of Spring
I didn't hear about that. I'm actually a bit sad because I wanted F&B 2 to have a section on the events of ASOIAF, so we can see how biased and off the Citadel's accounts of the story we've read are.
So, the thing with Valyria The main accepted theory is that Dragons aren't natural, the Valyrians used magic to combine Fire Wyrms with Wyverns and birth the dragons. These Fire Wyrms are what are thought to have been inside the Princess As for what hurt Balerion, we have no idea, it's possible that somehow another dragon survived and fought him
@@Bookborn i also really like the theory that balerion didn't just die of old age, but that his severe injury played a major part in his demise, which is why dragons could possibly get even older than he was at the end of his life.
I think this is one of those passages where Martin shows his admiration for Lovecraft and his fascination with eldritch horrors. He also does it in the main series, in everything relating to Euron Greyjoy and the Drowned God of the Ironborn, or even with the Squishers of the legends of Crackclaw Point.
@@K4neki_CNTP I always assumed that Balerion had some worms in it and they slowly killed him. I realize now on reflection that I have no evidence for this.
i know you haven’t watched the shows, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on hotd. im one of the few people who love both f&b and hotd, i think they’re really good companion pieces to one another and ive loved most of the changes and additions to the source material. it’s definitely a transformative adaptational approach that works as an interpretation of the book’s unreliable narrative. it also seems more in line with the themes and fantasy elements of asoiaf than what game of thrones was
The world of Ice and Fire is more of an encyclopedia. But the first 100 or so pages cover Fire and Blood part 1 and 2. But it’s really brief and he doesn’t go into as much detail. So for instance, Fire and Blood part 1 is covered in about 60/70 pages. To give you an example of how brief it is. But I’d suggest reading it just so you’d get a summary of Fire and Blood part 2. Even though it’s not in detail. It lets you know the main events. And the Blackfyres come to play in that portion of the story and it’s really good imo. It makes me want Fire and Blood 2 even more lol. But at least you have an idea of the story. The rest of the book reads sort of like a textbook tbh and I never got through the entire thing. But the first section, I recommend because it tells you what happens after Fire and Blood Part 1 ends.
As for the 'what's happening in Valyria?' Question, the answer is probably that George Mystery-Boxed it, so he doesn't even know. It's most likely a magical-Armageddon/chernobyl or a nuclear fallout
I'm a big fan of the theory David Lightbringer posits - that the faceless men liberating the slaves interrupted ritual sacrifices that kept the fourteen flames dormant. Love the idea of their abuse of human lives and pure hubris was ultimately their downfall. And additionally, that one of the Dragonlords, possibly Aenor, put it all in motion. Aka The Doom was an Inside Job. I'm sure you're right that George himself has no clear answer, but it's fun to think about!
He has mentioned that he probably won't explain stuff like Sothoryos, Asshai and most of those mysterious places because he only created those areas as the limits of the known world so that there is an explanation of why people don't go there and explore more but he doesn't want readers to lose focus on the main plot which is what matters to him.
The World of Ice and Fire is a lot like Fire and Blood, but with incredible art. There is some overlapping material with the Targaryens, but a ton of new stuff with other houses and the rest of the world.
Any time I hear someone call this series nihilistic, it makes me think either a.) they don’t understand nihilism, or b.) they haven’t actually read the series. I love that, as someone with a wide booktube audience, you continue to highlight George’s romanticism. I think ASOIAF is some of the most effective fantasy hopecore since LOTR. George: “One of the great things that Tolkien says in Lord of The Rings is “despair is the ultimate crime”. That’s the ultimate failing of Denethor, the Steward of Gondor, that he despairs of ever being able to defeat Sauron. We should not despair. We should not go gentle into that good night. So winter is coming, but light the torches, drink the wine and gather around the fire, we can still defy it!”
While I think Martin wrote a very compelling story in ASOIAF, I still think his work is very cynical and bleak though. I mean, can you name even one heroic character who is virtuous and actually smart? Because the rest of these good people are written to be dumb and naive who got killed easily.
@@nont18411 Brienne is written to be the epitome of romantic heroism - "No chance, and no choice" is not her being "dumb and naive", it's understanding that evil prevails only if good people who can do something about it refuse to stand up. Even if, yes, sometimes they lose their lives doing so. "Doing good is not always easy but that's when it's the most important to do it" is basically a core tenet of the series (Maester Aemon says something very similar but about duty)
@@nont18411 Easy. Davos. No question. "If Joffrey should die...what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?" "Everything," said Davos, softly. (ASOS, Davos V) This quote works on multiple levels, to Davos, whether it’s a truly innocent lad like Edric, or that little shit Joff, the answer remains, still, everything. He volunteers the information that he had Edric smuggled away, kneels, offers up his life to his king, and stands by his beliefs. Davos isn’t even concerned solely for his own moral compass, but that of the king he believes to be the one should rightfully sit the throne, doing his best to save that in his journey too. Previous reply already named Brienne, and I’d agree, people in-universe only consider her stupid/naive because she’s hulking and honourable, typical stereotype applied to other characters too even when untrue. GRRM’s best heroes come from this ilk, that of outcasts. Jon the bastard, Brienne the ugly maiden, Davos the upstarted smuggler. Just because some die or make mistakes in the process, doesn’t mean they’re unheroic. The idea is not to fall prey to the cynicism of those perpetuating cycles of the game, no matter how dire the circumstances.
@@Bookborn My pleasure! Here’s another cut from the same cloth, in relation to the discussion being had with @nont18411 here: GRRM: “My own heroes are the dreamers, those men and women who tried to make the world a better place than when they found it, whether in small ways or great ones. Some succeeded, some failed, most had mixed results... but it is the effort that's heroic, as I see it. Win or lose, I admire those who fight the good fight.” Shooting the THANK YOU back at ya! Very grateful for this feeding of ASOIAF content from a fresh perspective.
I think one of Georges most interesting takes on loyalty within ASOAIF would have to be Theon and his loyalty to his Greyjoy family, committing horrific warcrimes against his “adoptive” family to prove himself to his father and their brutal culture, even if it means destroying the only people who ever showed him any sort of love or acceptance
@@younoushamza wait for real?? It's like *the* book for lore and art there is for the series. And also generally speaking probably the most incredible book that fits these properties! And yes, written by George himself. Fire and Blood is even taken from one portion of World of Westeros - expanded on of course. He covers the entire history of the entire world in there, so not only Westeros and not only during the Targaryen Reign. Insane stuff, so much fun and so imaginative!
its honestly crazy to me that bookborn went from super not-a-fan of whatever she heard of martin & asoiaf to like being a super fan of it when she actually sat down and read it. I kept track of merphy napiers readthrough and she dropped it like mid way of clash of kings or after it, which disappointed me, so I was expecting bookborn to have a similar experience given both merphy and bookborn seem to have similar tastes and limits on what they can handle. I was so (happily) surprised when she finished all 5 books, and then A REREAD of AGOT followed by F&B. like good lord!!!
Idk why i always somehow disliked merphy i felt as she always comes off pretentious so every time she shows up on my fyp i just roll my eyes and skip. Didnt know she dropped asoiaf, seems she always drops the good ones
You can really tell which characters in F&B George loved the most because they get their own little coda and retrospective when they die. Like Rhaena Targaryen, who’s my personal favorite character in the book. George jumps forward in time just to detail her life up until her death in Harrenhall. His sendoff for her made me tear up.
George confirmed Haleana kills herself in a recent blog post titled ‘beware the butterflies’. He has since deleted it but you can still find it on the internet
He can only confirm that she died (maybe killed herself, maybe murdered) in the book. He's not writing on the show, so he doesn't know for sure. They're still writing season 3 and haven't written 4 yet.
@@carastone3473he did say he saw the plot breakdown for s3 and she still kills herself. If they change that, it'll probably be in response to his blog.
I personally like the place George ended it, its right at the start of the Targaryens transition from dragon lords, to just lords. Which i believe will tie in nicely to the themes of Fire and blood II.
Loved your video!! Would love to know your thoughts on Saera (daughter of Alysanne and Jaehaerys), Queen Alicent and Nettles. Also were you Team Green or Black during the Dance?
Saera was WILD lmao but I also felt sooo much for Alysanne at the end of her life when she was trying to reconcile with Saera and Jaehaerys wasn't willing to. Just...idk so realistic, so sad. Queen Alicent is the worst ☠ Ok, that's unfair, but I can only think of her being like "OH SO YOU JUST WANT REVENGE???" to Rh*** (whatever I don't feel like looking up how to spell her name lmao) and it's like MS ALICENT look at your life look at your choices!! So anyways I was team black lmao
Elissa Farman easily the most interesting character during Jaehaerys' reign. She stole the show for me with the whole "Travelling Court of Gossiping Lesbians" 😂
I love that just by the virtue of being dragonriders, Targaryen women have so much more freedoom, sway and presence. Dragons being the first in the feminist movement of Westeros! This is something GRRM definitely has thought about when writing, considering that when dragons are gone, Targaryen women are much more sidelined, especially if they are stubborn and rebellious. I also think Maegor killed himself because he saw that his cause was hopeless, as he could not have children and the remaining Targaryens rode against him. If he had killed them he would have ended Targaryen rule, and I think that was the trap that finally got to him. Its not that he suddenly became good, it is that he became way too fucking depressed over being cursed and horrible and nothing going his way, and him not wanting to wipe out their own dynasty. ALSO OFC YOUR OPINIONS ON RHAENA, Alysanne and Jaehaerys sister, and how she has some of the best moments in the entire book.
First of all, Rhaena supremacy. Thats all. Second I never even connected the dragons to freedom for the Targaryen women and its suuuuch and excellent point, I have to think on it more. Especially extrapolating to Dany and the main series
@@Bookborn I am glad I brought up an interesting point! Glad you enjoyed the book, its my favorite ASOIAF book as a historian haha. Like when you are flying a telekinetic nuke you are kind of a bigger, more important chess piece in every situation than almost every non-dragonrider. It also gives them complete freedom of movement, which is really useful if someone tells them what to do. They can always fly away.
That’s so true about the Targaryen women and their dragons. It's fascinating how this dynamic is explored in the main ASOIAF series through Daenerys. Nobody can truly tell her what to do because she wields the power. Interestingly, the dragons once symbolized oppression in Essos, but now they are associated with freedom by the oppressed. Also, there seems to be a correlation between the hatching of dragons and the fertility of Targaryen women, with Rhaenyra being one example. This might explain why Dany was pregnant before she hatched her dragons, as well as why it was the men who died trying to hatch them.
I love the women in Fire&Blood. My absolute favorite is Rhaena Targaryen, first rider of Dreamfyre, granddaughter of Aegon the Conqueror, and eldest sibling to Jaehaerys and Alysanne. She had been through so much, from losing her husband, and being forced to marry Maegor. She's also amazing for queer representation, I thought George did a great job with that in this novel. Her relationship with Elissa Farman and the possible explanation for how Daenerys got her dragon eggs is really cool. I also love her reign over Harrenhal and Dragonstone, and the fact that at the end of the day she just wanted peace for her and her daughters. I could write novels about how underrated I feel she is 😢 Like come on, Aegon the Conqueror CRIED when he held her for the first time!!! She's the GOAT!!! (I do also love your picks, Alysanne is an amazing woman)
World of Ice and Fire is a beautiful art book and most certainly worth a place on your bookshelf or coffee table. It will be a quick read for you, but that gives more time to savor the art that is all George approved.
@@Bookborn I'd always recommend reading the preview before buying it. For TWOI&F there's a good chunk on Google Books available - though it lacks the illustrations.
@@Bookborn it wasnt written by george but by two of his few confidants that know the plot of asoiaf so its written with george his blessings and notes plus its written similary to the style of fire and blood all thought less detailed and more general but gives a lot of information not found in the books especially worldbuilding it more like " a measter wrote an encyclopedia"
It's an interesting read if you wanna know more about the world, and it has basically an abbreviated version of F&B part 2, but it does read much more like The Silmarillion than F&B does, it doesn't have as much narrative as you described, but still a fun read though.
I know you said that you don't want to watch the show but I'd recommend you to watch at least season 1 of House of the Dragon just so you can see Viserys, even George said show Viserys was better than book Viserys. Also they have an explanantion for the reason why Aegon conquered Westeros (this was given by George) As for Fire and Blood 2 is been written as well as Winds of Winder (George said it on his blog). He'll probably finish WOW first and a year o two after he'll release Fire and Blood 2 while hr works on A Dream of Spring
I have never really been into reading, but i began reading this after i watched House of the Dragon because i wanted to know how that story would unfold. And it has really started my reading journey, i love to read now. I also just finished A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms last week and now i'm reading the Hobbit and have The Lord of the Rings to look forward to afterwards. But looking back, i don't know what i was thinking starting a book with 700 pages, when i hadn't read anything in a long time. But i loved it lmao
To hopefully put your mind at ease, George has said in the past his plan is to finish Winds, and then write more Dunk and Egg, write Blood and Fire (F&B 2), and then Dream of Spring
When I read Fire & Blood, I thought Helaena took her own life too. Then I watched Hohse of the Dragon, and it made me question the "history" repeatedly. Fascinating to examine the changes between book and show and think about the agenda of the "historians".
I Loooooved the exploration of the agenda of the historians. and then thinking...what's the agenda of the person I'm reading? even if they are saying they are being objective?
It would be cool to see you watch House of the Dragon. I know you dont like to watch shows about books, but since Fire and Blood is more a chronicles, I think you would like to check it up and see the characters literally alive. I would love to see you react to the show or comment on your opinion. But I think you'll never watch it, which makes me sad.
Like you, I was shocked by how captivating the narratives were in this book. I had heard it was a boring history book only good for those who really wanted to know all the lore. I only read it because I didn't want to wait years for the next season of Hotd to find out what happens. To my pleasant surprise, this was a super fun and quick read. I actually loved the history book nature of the writing. It allowed him to cover a lot of interesting plot over many years with relatively few pages. But the thing that stood out the most was how he was able to give even the smallest side characters complete arcs and compelling stories. My favorites were Princess Aerea, Rhaena Targaryen, Rego Draz, and Cregan Stark.
When I first started reading it, I was kind of like “what am I doing reading a fictional history book”. But once you get into it, the stories are so interesting and fun. I think I read the Dance of Dragons chapters in one sitting.
Have you seen that YT video "the two types of fantasy"? It's like Type 1: "Aw my gad there used to be majestic dragons painting the sky with their wings. One day they'll return and grace us with their beauty." Type 2: "Oh my god the dragons are coming to burn our town, animals and us as well, run!!" ASOIAF is type 1 and F&B is type 2 😂
@@Frey_Gray i think it's more that that type of power corrupts and sets whoever rides a a dragon be orders of magnitude more power than everyone else. the reality of that world is that they bring destruction and oppression. the only issue is that the trags and their dragons were the only real institution that could contain the faith. which had its own horrors.
Also, note that Robert Baratheon's grandmother is Rhaelle Targaryen -- it is what the Maesters use as justification for his claiming the throne after his conquest (despite the conquest alone being pretty convincing) (also, apologies if you referenced this -- have this on while working so not processing all words).
@@Bookborn it's 2 very small references. Early in Clash when Catelyn meets with Renly he mentions vaguely the blood ties between them, and then near the end in Feast Aemon mentions Stannis having dragon's blood through Egg's daughter, Rhaelle.
Yep, GRRM is a masterful writer. This is what makes us readers come back again and again, even when we're so frustrated with him. Don't know why, but I find it very validating to hear how much you love ASOIAF.
"He knew how to do lots of plot, and when to inject quotes and conversation when it really benefitted the story." To me, this is easily the greatest strength of F&B. George uses dialogue sparingly, but he uses it to inject humanity and characterization, to dramatize the important and epic moments, and to drop some of the funniest beats in the story. This book was always going to be a tightrope walk between info-dumping and narrative storytelling and imo he nailed it. I also love how often George finds room for something really silly and purely comedic in the book. Shout out to the priest-king Lodos, who called on krakens to defeat Aegon, and then walked into the sea to "take counsel" with the Drowned God when they didn't appear.
For characters you didn’t cover in the video I’m sure a lot of people would like to know what you thought of Elissa Farman. People like to theorize about where she went and what she did with the eggs.
RE: Maegor's death- I like the theory that when Maegor ordered everyone who built the Red Keep executed to keep his secrets, one of them escaped through the secret tunnels they built and then used the secret passages later to sneak up and get revenge. It's poetic!
YESSS, This book was SOOO good. Tho, I feel like for me my favourite part, except Aegons Conquest and The Dying of the Dragons, was The Hooded Hand, I just found the whole part so incredibly tragic. Tyland just helps better a realm that has just constantly fucked him over. They say asoiaf is nihilistic, this chapter proves that sentiment wrong. Overall, Fire and Blood is very solid
The World of Ice and Fire isn't exactly and Encyclopedia, it's more of a world book, fleshing out places and families within the world, and is again written "In universe" by a Maester. I'd say you should read it over time, just to give yourself the best working knowledge of the world possible
I'd love to know your thoughts on Rhaena (daughter of Aenys I), I loved reading about her life and the journey she goes through. I love when she confronts Rogar, too: "Hear this, my lord. Do not think to wed again. Take care of the whelps my mother gave you, my half-brother and half-sister. See that they want for nothing. Do that, and I will let you be. If I should hear even a whisper of your taking some other poor maid to wife, I will make another Harrenhal of Storm's End, with you and her inside it."
@@Bookborn I was hoping to ask you about Rhaena if nobody had already, but she's clearly very popular! I adored her as well especially as some wonderful queer representation, her connection to Dreamfyre is a big part of why I found the Dragonpit scene so gut-wrenching. I absolutely agree with you on Fire and Blood in general. it's a somewhat divisive book, but I really really enjoyed it and you verbalised why I think I found it so good really well. When I finished it, I found myself thinking I would be just as happy with a sequel to it coming out as I would with TWOW - I'm not sure how true that is, but I loved the book. I do sort of agree with you on the ending, though - while the end of the Regency works okay as a final chapter, ending with Morning's death would've been very thematically appropriate. I suppose that going into Aegon III's reign would sort of necessitate introducing his and Viserys' children without any real character payoff for them, which might have been an influence on the decision. I would love to hear you doing a full breakdown of the book, your opinions are so interesting and well explained. I completely understand if you don't want to spend that long doing that though, lol. I an interested in what you thought of Jaeherys overall? I honestly hated him by the end, and I've seen several other fans feel the same - I really love how throughout the series he's built up as the incredible conciliator, the best king ever, but then when George reveals his actual life he was so awful to his family (especially Saera!) that I just. eugh. A few other people have also asked, but additionally, do you have any thoughts or speculation about what convinced Aegon to abandon Dorne? I saw a theory that Rhaenys was still alive in the Hellholt dungeons and would be tortured if the invasion continued, with the letter possibly even written in her blood, which seemed awfully chilling and just like something George would write. On that note, actually, what did you think of Rhaenys and Visenya? Do you know the theory that Aegon I was infertile? How do you feel about it? Loved the video and all of your ASOIAF content, looking forward to more whenever you're able to release it!!
She is my favorite in the entire book... her last days alone, sad in Harrenhal befriended by a crippled man named Maegor who was kind to her all just so bittersweet... Rhaena is so precious to me.
Hello! I have two characters that I'd love to know your thoughts on that weren't mentioned in the vid. First would have to be Queen Visenya. Visenya is easily one of my favorite Targaryens not just because of badass she is but how much impact she had on the course of Westerosi history in the Targaryen era. A warrior who played a huge role during the conquest, first rider of Vhagar (that we're aware of), original wielder of Dark Sister (that we're aware of), creator of the Kingsguard, said to dabble in poisons and sorcery, outlived both her siblings and was instrumental in seating Maegor on the Iron Throne. The second character I'd love to hear you talk about is Septon Barth! The greatest hand of the king there ever was who had so much wisdom beyond his years. A common refrain among the fandom is that you can always bet on Barth. If conventional wisdom says something and Barth says something else, then 9 times outta 10 you should go with Barth. Aemon even mentions something to this effect when he's on the boat with Sam in Feast. He says something along the lines "Barth had the truth of it!" when referring to whether dragons have a defined Male and Female sex or not and this is still believed to be correct now. Of course he wrote so much over his life and much of it was burned by Baelor the Blessed (ironic considering Barth was a septon, but just not a total fanatic like Baelor). Also in regards to The World of Ice and Fire. That book is more of an encyclopedia than Fire and Blood is but I still absolutely recommend it just for the beautiful illustrations alone but also because it was co-written by the same couple that co-wrote fire and blood. While it is more encyclopedia than F&B it is still written from the in-world perspective of a maester and has some narrative structure to it. But rather than talking about just the Targareyns its more of a broad focus on the whole world. Thanks!!!
You should totally read The World of Ice & Fire. First off, it has beautiful illustrations, it’s such an enjoyable experience. It also covers so much of the world you’ve wondered about! The Dawn Age and the Long Night. Asshai. Summerhall and Mad King Aerys’ reign. Worth it!
The World of Ice and Fire is definitely worth a read. It is more of an encyclopedia/coffee table book (not a secret masterpiece like F&B), but it's full of lore details that are not anywhere else. A lot of it is written by George, but some is also written/summarized by his assistants Elio and Linda. The whole middle of the book is the history of the Targaryen kings. George wrote so much for this section that they couldn't fit it in the coffee table book, so what got published is a fairly dry summary (he expanded on what he wrote to make F&B volume 1... and hopefully volume 2) Much of the book is about pre-Targaryen Westerosi history and about far off cultures, and reads more like myth because the maesters don't have good historical sources. A lot of esoteric fan theories have their basis in the mythical lore nuggets in TWoiaF
I wonder when Bookborn might look into “A World of Ice and Fire”, if only for completionism’s sake… Maybe she’s saving it for the right time? Given it’s not quite George’s writing IIRC… yeah.
I loved Fire and Blood, but The World of Ice and Fire was way more boring and a "school book". As far as I know, it's not all written by Martin and it shows. THe pros are boring and I really didn't enjoy the book much- it's stuff you can read in a wiki or hear i an a RU-vid video. And yes, I agree Fire and Blood probably has GRRMs best writing to date - it's his newest work and it just shows how he keeps getting better!
Ok. Your opinion on the motherhood and the irreconcilable differences between the interests of Rhaenyra and the vilified Alicent are a must!!! I believe this can give you some meat for your catelyn defense video too!
SOoooo many thoughts, although I'll admit that Alicent does see pretty villainous ☠ Although perhaps there is a argument to be made how history is written...
@@BookbornThis is something I really like about how the show adapted it (which I'm aware you have no interest in watching! No worries), making them both more nuanced and even sympathetic. People hated this but it makes sense to me. Who wrote F&B? Maesters. Idk about y'all but the citadel always reads as misogynistic to me. It would make sense that any woman in power that isn't chaste or submissive would be cast in an evil light.
@@tobydorman3998 ??? Are you implying she doesn't fit in this? It's a more passive form of misogyny but it's there. The passage of her speaking to the archmaesters about letting women in comes to mind. Also, she married the king and bore him like eleven children, she did exactly what a queen is "supposed" to do in their eyes. It doesn't have to be blatantly malicious to be biased against her having power.
@@WatashiMachineFullCycle My friend Kyle actually talked to me about her character in particular and said the show made some good choices to help her feel more nuanced and complicated and I think that's a cool choice. I probably have to reread to really sink in to how I feel about Aliciant...I was so on the side of Rhaenyra that I was a taaad blinded lol
The problem with the term "strong female character" is simply that people don't know what it means. It doesn't mean physical or emotional strength. It means "strongly-written." So, while changing the term to "complex female characters" might help people to understand, it's not really necessary. The term already means what it is supposed to mean. Furthermore, a character doesn't need to be complex to be strong. Robert Baratheon, for example, is not a very complex character in the grand scheme of ASoIaF; he is a discontented hedon without a loving support structure who is trapped in the memory of his glory and obsessed with a past he can't reclaim, which leads him to be callous and abusive. That's a pretty straightforward archetype without much complexity. Yet he is still a very strong character in how he resonates with the audience and the impact he has on the story. People like to make a bigger deal out of things than they need to. Just write your damn characters well.
I mean, my video on the topic goes into more detail and says essentially what you just said. Although I disagree about Robert - all people are pretty complex. He may have simple wants and needs to understand, but even those characters can be difficult to write well. Robert has more than meets the eye - something Martin is good at, and why all his characters feel real.
Aerys II, the Mad King, has an amazing chapter in AWOIAF. It gives us an excellent backgound of Aerys and why he plunged into madness. GRRM makes even him believable and human, imo.
Concerning the incest point at 22:37, westerosi nobles don't care about aunt-nephew, uncle-niece, or cousin marriages. It's not really considered incestuous by the nobles at that point. Tywin married his cousin, Stark uncles married their nieces, etc. That doctrine is more for sibling marriages. No one would bat an eye at FAegon or Jon marrying their aunt Dany even if they weren't Targaryens.
Uncle/Aunt + Nephew/Nice isn't that common I think. The realm did frown upon Maegor for taking Rhaena as his wife iirc - though his polygamy surely inflated the negative reaction.
@@VinnieMF There were a couple of uncle/niece marriages in the North, but I guess it's not enough conclusive evidence (it could also be an Old Gods thing)
Interestingly George recently all but confirmed that Helaena canonically killed herself in a (now deleted) blogpost criticising the changes "House of the Dragon" had made to the story which later on would potentially remove the main reason for her doing it despite her suicide being in the outline for season 3. This is probably the only mystery in F&B we'll ever get a straight answer to but it proves that George definitely has his personal "true" version of events in mind.
His recent blog post was about how he's currently writing both Winds and Blood & Fire right now, and the latter comes much easier to write for him so it's quite likely that we will get the second volume after Winds (he just needs one really good year for writing and I think Winds will come out). Some of the material that will be in Blood & Fire is already published in The Wolrd of Ice and Fire coffee table book so it's safe to assume he won't take forever to write it.
It’s been so fun to see you go from not being sure about getting into this series to now loving this history book! I also love Fire and Blood; I named my cat Rhaena after Queen Rhaena. I would love to see you do a video that is a deeper dive into some of the theories and such that came out of this book. Like who killed Maegor, are the eggs that Elissa Farman stole Danny’s eggs (yes obviously!!!), or just some of the weird magical stuff going on with the Targs and their dragon bonds. Also: you did much better with these names than you have yourself credit for!
just a quick question, did you notice that the passage about the three eggs stolen from Dreamfyre are probably Dany's eggs? Just a reminder that Elissa Farman's ship is supposedly seen years later in Asshai, where Illyrio claims to have bought the eggs he gives as a wedding gift
So heres an interesting theory i found online. So in F&B Hugh Hammer talks about a prophecy regarding a hammer bringing down a dragon (i cant remember the whole thing) and the theory is that the prophecy is actually referring to Robert Baratheon
Fire and blood might be my favorite book in the asoiaf world. Rhaena Targaryen (sister to jahaerys and alasayne) is my favorite character. She went through so much
Love Rhaena as well. She's a pretty bad person (especially to her husband and daughter) but so compelling. Her threatening Lord Baratheon to not take any other wife after Alyssa was peak Rhaena.
She's also one of my characters, she's a bit of an asshole but that's what makes her very interesting in the drama, which is why I also have Rhaenyra as one of my favorite characters
I don’t recall if you’ve read The Hedge Knight yet, but to me that is an even better showing of Martin’s efficient writing. It’s a pure distilled form of everything that makes asoiaf great.
Maegor’s death is not the first mystery, it was the fate of Rhaenys, the letter that Aegon received. Btw, i would like to see you cover the fate of Saera, the rogue princess. She’s the best character for me
When it comes to the Dragons, Sunfyre is a fan favorite. Aegon II's golden glory. GRRM somehow managed to weave a whole arc for a dragon amidst this sprawling narrative. You seriously need to dissect GRRM's writing style and make a video of it.
I liked where it ended. Aegon III is my favourite king, and I like that George is taking his time in chronicling his reign. And idk why, but I found him kicking out the regents to be an absurdly satisfying and triumphant ending. Plus, this means we’ll get a few dragons in the next book :)
And she's back! I loved Fire and Blood. Having a few false narrative attempting to create the history of the targ lineage. With mushrooms nonsense it's great
I think you're kind of right about the ending, but also I think the death of the last dragon might work better as an introductory framing device for Blood and Fire, since it seems like the spectre of the Dragons and their absence hangs over every future Targaryen king, and the attempts to bring them back or compensate for their absence in other ways are often defining, from what we already know. I have a feeling George cut this one off there for that very reason, I think he's a lot more interested in telling the story of the slow decline of an empire than he was in telling the story of the rise and climax. Also, tell us about Saera! That's one of the most interesting parts of the book to me, it says a lot about the treatment of women in society, especially how Jaehaerys treated the women in his life, and how Martin writing as the maesters don't see to question how fucked up it is, and how it sort of puts the lie to the portrayal of Jaehaerys as this wise, generous king.
I also just finished Fire & Blood for the first time and couldn’t agree more about the level of characterization and narrative tension that was packed into a “history” book. It also warms my heart and blows me away that this is what George does for fun when he’s stressed about Winds of Winter. Can’t wait for Blood & Fire. Edit; World of Ice and Fire is also great! Definitely much more of an encyclopedia but the details it goes into in regard to the world outside of Westeros is really interesting.
I always really enjoyed Cregan Stark and the Hour of the Wolf. Even though it was a bit of lull in terms of the action of the story, I thought King Jaeherys was very interesting especially the trouble with his children. The book is in a lot of ways a litany of critical flaws of Monarchy.
Fire and blood seems redundant next to The World of Ice and Fire, which came out first. Sure it’s more specific than the world of ice and fire but it covers less history and copies and paste a good sum of information with some juice injected into it. And fire and blood feels weirdly unrealistically specific as a history book compared to the world of ice and fire. There are times in fire and blood where it feels like a regular story scene that no one could have been there for instead of it feeling like it’s being recounted for through history.
Did the expanded information on house Targaryen expand or change your view of Daenerys in any way? Obviously Aegon the Conquerer is the character she has the most narrative parallels with but did any others stand out? I also find it sad that there are these rich history books about her family in Westeros filled with things that she never got to learn about or only learned minimal details on.
It did change my view! Mostly just on the series as a whole, to really understand how and why the Targaryen reign started, and why Viserys would feel it was his RIGHT to gain the throne back. It also changes my perspective on Danys future arc...seeing how dragons were used, it makes me feel that she may turn more villianous than she intends.
Quentyn is dead for sure! I love your review of the book, wow, and I agree with pretty much everything. Thank you for this video! If you decide to cover parts in more detail, I think I would like to hear from you about the Dance and its main characters.
Ive been doing a reread myself at the moment. Queen Rhaena is one of the most interesting characters in my view. Per the term you used, a truely complex female character. Equal parts loved and hated her. Loved her little epilogue finding some semblence of peace in Harrenhall.
🟢 His prose got better 🟢 His character work got better 🔴 His plot got unfocused 🔴 The timeline has become considerably more muddled to follow 🔴 Plot progression has crawled 🔴 Point of view bloat 🔴 Feast and Dance are unfinished
The World Book is closer to the Silmarillion than Fire and Blood. It is more encyclopedic. Written by Martin and two of his proof readers for the main series it was the impetus for writing Fire and Blood. Martin set out writing a Targaryen history for the World Book but wrote too much to fit it in that book so it became F&B part 1
"Fire &Blood" is a long book, but compared to the books in the main series, it is very easy to read. Plus, I love reading history books, so that one was the perfect book for me. I watched "House of the Dragon" before reading "Fire&Blood", but when I re-watched season 1, I was a little bit emotional seeing "jaehaerys I targaryen",because I now know the story of his life. Also, I might be one of my favorite targaryens.
