Fire Emblem Awakening || The Price of Player Choice 

Sacrifice Emmeryn? Yes. No. Have Emmeryn join Smash.

I personally think that in the case before Emmeryn's death, it was fine. I mean, immediate thoughts after realizing that it was an illusionary choice will naturally lead to feeling cheated or frustrated, but like you said, that's the point. It really drove home how much she cared for Chrom and company, the ramifications and helplessness that the war was causing and the pointlessness of it all, which is presented really well in chapter 10. Having said that, your choice having more of an impact than the few throwaway lines that were given would've been appreciated, even if that impact didn't necessarily affect the plot. i also think the Lucina one was weak.

I don't dislike the idea of the player choice scenarios in Awakening. However, the player choices would hold a lot more impact if these choices altered dialogue in other scenes in the game, or alter how characters like Chrom, Lissa, Lucina, or Flavia view the avatar based on the choices made.

Sacrifice Emmeryn? Yes/Yes Thanks Awakening!

I actually wish that other characters held you to account for decisions at a later time even if ultimately it doesn't let you go through with them. Imagine if Lissa later blamed you for Emmeryn's death if you chose to rationalize a plan that involved letting her die, but grew closer to the avatar if they attempted to give up the Emblem. Alternatively, imagine if Flavia and Basilio attempted to chew you out later for the recklessness of being willing to give up the Emblem for a single life, even that of a ruler. Conversations like that could really change the impact of the whole choice system, even if it what you had actually chose was never actually able to happen. Imagine Lucina later approaching the player character asking for forgiveness if you had chosen to be willing to die, but being less trusting of you for the rest of the game if you chose otherwise, imagine your character's spouse and child, should they have them by that point, resenting you for being willing to leave them on such pretenses if you agreed to let yourself be killed. There was a lot that could be done to make the choices meaningful even without actually having other characters go through with the actions directly implied.

I feel like the issue with the Emmeryn choice is just that it doesn’t give you any preceding choices that *do* matter - if it had set things up so that you did feel like you had agency, that choice would have just hammered home the feeling of helplessness. The problem is that the game only really uses the choice mechanic at the points where it wants to subvert it - it tries to have its cake and eat it too, to get that subversion without putting in the work to establish what its subverting and give the moment meaning. Like, honestly whenever I made a choice in awakening I made it under the assumption that it *wouldn’t* matter beyond one or two lines of dialogue before it went back to the plot - if the game had gone out of its way to dispel that impression before yanking agency away from me again, I feel like it would be a much more powerful moment. (Also, I have to admit I was surprised this was about the dialogue choices - from the title, I thought it was more likely to be about the avatar and how trying to give the player choices to customize them forced a largely blank character and overstretched workloads for support conversations.)

Fire Emblem Awakening || The Price of Player Choice... *or lack thereof*

I love the choices thematically. The first two fall into the game’s theme of not being in control of their life. The Amnesia, Grima’s interference, and possession are proof enough. It’s the final choice that brings it home. That is when Robin takes back his/her life and the world will deal with what s/he deals, not the other way around. That said this was a well put together video that I felt obligated to comment on.

I always liked this aspect. -so sue me- I thought it was to emphasize how hard it is to change fate, not only for empathy with Chrom, but more specifically, empathy with Lucina. If I remember the game correctly, I think "Marth" drops little hints now and then of how helpless she felt against the course of fate, because in the end though she thought she was changing history, she was simply prolonging the inevitable. Looking back on it now, and having read _Beowulf_ , I notice that if you read the text carefully in _Beowulf_ the author - I read a version by Burton Raffel - there are hints that "Fate saves those who save themselves", but also when the Will of God is in tune with the Courage of a hero fate is overturned. (I know some/many/none of you may not be Christian, but -Beo- bear with me here. It does not have to do with Christ I promise.) In Awakening, It takes the Will of Naga in cooperation with the Courage of the heroes to change Fate. Until the group reaches Tiki, or Refines the Falchion, if I remember correctly, not much changes despite the efforts of the protagonists. The catalysts of changing destiny were the Dragons, The Blade of Light, & the Components of The Fire Emblem in the hands of the heroes. Omg I went on a tangential rant. I forget what I'm talking about. So sry.

I like it a lot. For the first two choices, the option was never yours to make. Emm takes the guilt off of both the player and Chrom for failing to save her, because she was willing to sacrifice herself either way. For the second choice, you had the choice to reject Lucina’s judgement, which would lead to a confrontation that Chrom would interrupt, or to accept it, no matter what her choice actually turned out to be. As it stands, she chooses to not kill you, meaning that the choice was never yours to make again.The third choice is the only one that IS yours (as the avatar) to make in the game: whether you should land the final blow or step back and let Chrom do it. This is the only one where it is completely up to you in the story and in the game itself, and it also just happens to be the only one that has an actual effect on the story (although it is often overlooked because the consequence is literally the LAST thing that you see in the game).

I remember back in radiant dawn? That there this one point where the player could make a choice very similar to Awakening where just like Awakening it made no difference whatsoever. Except unlike Awakening there was a third opinion unlocked after beating the game for the first time on any 2nd play though and beyond. I believe this was intended but they never had time to go and write alternative routes. And by the time then realize they couldn’t it probably very into development and didn’t want to waste what time they had considering this was the last game for they knew. But it’s stretching it a bit sense based off the finished game that we got it seems clear they spend more time on the story given the unbalance gameplay. Even then I argue they didn’t Really have focused on Really much on one thing or aspect. Hence why I think many things Awakening did were gimmicky and not properly balanced or could of been fleshed out more. Like for example: Grima’s backstory that we received in Echoes that would of made Grima much more interesting than your Average Fe dragon.

I remember when I first played Awakening thinking how interesting it would be to pick the other choice but sadly found out it didn’t matter (not including the ending) but still love the game

I feel like this scene functioned exactly as (possibly) intended for me. When Chrom mentioned mentioned Emmeryn choosing for him, I immediately thought back to the previous scene.

I see your point and I respect it, but I kinda disagree on the fundamentals. Awakening's main theme is that the future is not written and that (as cheesy as it is) friendship can overcome anything, yet, at every single turn, they shoehorn those fake choices which pretty much states that yes, the future IS written and nothing you can do changes it.

I genuinely love the analysis you made. Yes, I still think that the choice mechanic didn't really make it in, especially if you replay the game several times.However, from my standpoint, because I love Awakening so much and love the characters, I actually do have a deeper look into the choices that are made. With Emmeryn, I see Robin needing to decide if he is to tell Chrom to let Emmeryn, his beloved older sister, one whom Chrom admits in a Drama CD is like a mother to him, to die, or to also sacrifice the lives of so many people by giving Gangrel the Fire Emblem. Emmeryn choosing to die is in fact something I believe many other characters would do if they were as selfless in other series or anime. They would rather die than be made as part of a choice. And then the part with Lucina, and how depending on the relationship with Robin, the dialogue alters dramatically. If Robin is Lucina's mother, Lucina has to realize that she has to kill her mother to save her father, losing one parent to save the other. And if Robin is Lucina's husband, then Lucina comes back with the intention of killing her father's murderer and Grima, only to fall in love with the man that ends up being both. It's like the ultimate irony for her that hurts. And Robin being forced to choose, allowing Lucina to kill them or refusing it, but Chrom steps in. Though it feels like a cop out, it really isn't. Think about it, Chrom was forced to watch his sister die so that he didn't have to choose. He wouldn't ever allow another choice lead to the death of someone else, and that's why he stopped it. It wasn't just because he believes in Robin to the end, but rather because he didn't want Robin to end up like Emmeryn did. He couldn't bear to lose someone else he cared for.

To me in terms of a story telling standpoint these "decisions" actually make sense. One of the biggest plot points in awakening is about how the future can be changed. Grima obviously goes against this being the main antagonist and his whole point of view is that the future is set in stone. Instead of constantly making progress in changing the events of the past/future, the game (specifically with emmeryn's death) supports the antagonists view, which is that nothing can be changed. emmeryn temporarily survived being assassinated back in chapter six at the castle (lucina actually says that emmeryn died there in the bad future, if I remember correctly), but she was fated to die. Not even a decision on the players behalf could change that. In my eyes this idea of failing to make change (on both the protagonists and players fronts) adds to the helpless feel of the game's end of the world scenario, with the characters failing to save the world in the past and failing to save it again upon being given a second chance via lucina. this helplessness is present until the game's climax, where robin's decision to either slay grima or let chrom do it has actual ramifications. This along with the fact that grima fails to end the world ends the game nicely with the protagonists' ideals prevailing. TL;DR The way I see it the decision to make the players input pointless was a way for the game to make not only the characters feel helpless, but the player themselves feel helpless in regards to making an impact on the plot, further adding to its imact. Im not saying it was implemented perfectly, as you have to either play the game twice or search it up to realize that your decision had no weight to it. And It would of been nice if you got more than like one different line of text for choosing an alternative option. I apologize If I got any details about the game wrong, it's been a while since I last played it.

I mean, overall the idea of changing fate/free will vs destiny is a pretty big theme of Awakening. One of Lucina's defining character motivations is to stop events from happening in order to keep her future from happening. Personally I think that one of Lucina's most important moments in the story (Her attempt to kill Robin) is one of the smartest choices for which story beat to tie into the game's overall theme.

I can respected a failed attempt, which is why that just knowing why that choice exists makes me more tolerant of it. However, the fact that NONE of the choices matter is what really hurts. If there was some side effects to the other choices even minor ones, that would have really made the Emmeryn lack of choice really hit home.

It all makes you feel that much better when you hear those 9 magic words... "Don't you put any stock in this destiny hogwash"

I pretty much agree with u they were up to something on paper but it just doesn't work on execution all that well I just hope that moving forward they actually start making FE choices mater it will make the games feel a lot more personal and full of depth

I'm okay with the execution of both choices. With Emmeryn's death, it's not like Chrom ignored me. Emmeryn did. I felt it was quite obvious what they were trying to achieve. With Lucina's judgement, the choice can lead to differing and heartbreaking dialogue, especially if Robin is Chrom's wife, which I enjoyed. I knew Robin would not really die lol

I find with these player choice things, is that there's a certain level of arrogance and entitlement that goes with them. That because you're given a choice that you must have an impact on it, that the world bows to your decisions and wishes, when in reality that's not quite the case. I've seen it elsewhere, such as an adventure game where certain areas are locked off due to an in universe reason, but the player whines because they want to go there, and they want to go there now. In essence, players seem to have a subconscious mindset that they should be able to do as they wish, regardless of what the world of the game itself says. A choice not having an effect is just as plausible as anything else. It shows that the other characters aren't just binary flags for you to activate, but characters with agency of their own, whose desires may contradict your own and come out on top. That isn't to say this was done perfectly. Were there other times where choices did matter, or subtle changes such as dialogue were made, then there'd still be the feeling of helplessness and frustration without the choice feeling pointless. It fits well with the themes of fate, that Fate favours the original destination, it just wasn't fully handled. It's a strange topic, especially in a series where players forever criticise how the world revolves around the avatar, then complain when it doesn't, but I know it's not as black and white as that. A good idea, iffy execution.

I think the biggest reason I like the non-choice choices in Awakening is because while generic, Awakening's themes are meant to convince the player that the connections they make are more powerful than what someone can do on their own. The choices themselves are not even Robin's choice to make, it's just about how the player would want to fit into that situation. If Robin weren't a slot in for the player these choices would not exist because the character is already written to act a certain way, but because Robin exists to give immersion to newcommers, it makes sense that the game would make you actually think about choices by giving the player a question they MUST answer to continue no matter what the answer is. I feel like the backlash to these non-choice choices is what lead to Fates' plot where the selling point is to experience stories that leave out chunks of detail in any given version so that "yeah your choices matter, but they aren't satisfying"

I actually liked the "choices" in awakening because I think this illusion of choice or "ignoring the player" as you put it fits in very well with the games story, more specifically the aspects of the story that center around whether or not it is possible to change ones fate. I remember there being several instances where characters make remarks about the unimportance of choices because fate, being predetermined, is not changeable and the not-choice of sacrificing Emeryn makes the player really feel that not primarily through empathy one may or may not have for Chrom but by breaking the players expectation of being able to make a meaningful choice within the game. I think the fact that people get upset about being ignored proves that the writers of the story did a good job with this and the last choice of the game, sacrificing ones character or letting Chrom defeat Grima, is the only choice that actually changes the story and this also makes sense because at this point, after everything they went through, Chrom and the rest actually have found the resolve, or defiance if you will, necessary to actually change fate and thus make a meaningful decision that makes a change. This moment gets even stronger because in this moment, as a player, we also get back our "power" to actively influence whatis happening in the game through our own actions and, more importantly in this case, choices. The choice to accept Lucinas judgement is similar to the choice with Emeryn in one critical way: the outcome does not solely rely on Lucina and Robin but also on Chrome, who interferes with it and who isn't the players character so isn't a character over whose actions the player has any power (outside of the combat scenarios obviously ). The only thing I found confusing about the choices is that the first time the player gets to make a decision for Chrom while the other two choices are made from Robins perspective. Since Robin is the players character I feel it would have made more sense to only let the player make choices in his place. Then again, Robin chosing whether to sacrifice Emeryn also would have been weird and I think that having the choice be "Chroms" to make made the following moments more impactful. What I am trying to say is that giving the player an illusion of choice can be used as a way to use the interactive nature of games as a storytelling device in pretty much the same way as giving the player actual choices if, like in the story of awakening, the players choices not having a huge effect fits in with the story that is being told.

I really like The Emmeryn's death moment, it is supposed to bem frustrating but is real, sometimes choices aren't our, the game does this in a interesting way cause you think you can choose It gives you hope and then, she did it, by herself, making It more painful it's not just empathizing with Chrom it's a form to give hope just to take it away, causing a bigger impact

After that stream watching these serious videos is weird to me

There's also the plot point of you being mind being controlled by Grima and Validar. The only true time a chose of yours would truly affect the plot is after you broke free of the puppeteers pulling your strings. Do not forget there is a sidemission where you are asked to make a choice, and it effects the way the mission is played.

Something to note is that these choices help show that despite Robin (and by extension you, the player) being a great tactician, there are things that are completely out of your hands. Even after all you've done, you're essentially powerless until the Grima decision, where you hold the fate of the world in your hands. This helps with the atmosphere of the final scene, leaving you with a bit of a feeling of triumph, finally overcoming fate

As always, I need to bring up the experts on the subject-Extra Credits. Specifically, their videos "Choice and Conflict - What Does Choice Mean in Games?" and "The Illusion of Choice - How Games Balance Freedom and Scope". They cover how choices can be meaningful to the player even if they don't impact the broader narrative, arguing that the important part of the choice is less the effects of that choice and more that the player thinks about it. Links to said videos: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lg8fVtKyYxY.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-45PdtGDGhac.html

I don’t think the Lucinda argument is nearly as strong but once you pointed out the Emmeryn one I was just like woah. Honestly that’s super cool now that I understand it. It doesn’t matter what you Robin thinks. It’s not your choice what Emmeryn wants to do for her family and her kingdom. I like that a lot now.

I always loved awakenings plot, like i think it is one of the best plots ever... I Always thought the player choice was there to give you a chance to customize your protagonist, though I personally believe your explanation now.

imo the choice's could of had a bigger impact, even if it boiled down to just different dialogues later. like sacrificing Emmeryn could have meant Lucina was more intent on killing you to save the future. whereas refusing to would have made her hope for another way.

Something I like in Three Houses in regards to choice is one we see fairly early on, when we've been sent to retrieve The Lance of Ruin. After the completing the mission, we have a choice between returning the lance to the house the weapon was given to, or to refuse. Should we refuse, and happen to have Sylvain in our party, he will come in and claim the lance for himself saying he's been given permission from his father.

I honestly think that the Lucina one could’ve been left out. Emm one I feel like is a good design. Really illustrates that sometimes there is nothing you can do. You are given a meaningless choice, that at first seems like a life and death options. It’s not as much of an illusion as a lack of choice. You can try to chose the right outcome but in the end you really are powerless in that decision, and sometimes you just are powerless.

Tbh I think it would be interesting if the choices led you to different Gaiden chapters for instance instead of looking at your nomad/pesgasus knight level, Marcus asks Roy whether he wants to go to illia or sacae in fe6 and you get to choose between the two, they could even tell you what you'll end up fighting (Pegasus knights and snow for illia for instance) .

There was this moment in Hector Mode of Blazing Sword that I thought was similar to your explanation. In Hector Mode, Oswin obeys Lord Uther, Hector's brother, to keep Hector from knowing Uther died. It was because the Ostian Lord knew that Hector would be rushing back home no matter what if he knew his brother was ill. At the same time, to choose between helping his brother or his friend Eliwood would tear Hector apart, thus why the news was kept secret from him. I don't know if this had influenced Awakening's story or not, but I thought it was cool and wanted to point out the similarities.

Another video from Reinhardt himself god bless

I just found your videos, and they are amazing, keep up the great work dude!

I think the problem in the choices is not that the game ignores your decision, but that, as you said, you couldn't know that choosing one option over the other wouldn't change a thing, so you feel cheated. This could have been easily fixed with the choice affecting how the outcome happens, if not the end result. Yet we only get a token 2/3 lines about the choice made and the story goes right back to it. It's not frustrating, it's manipulative, because if the game didn't care about my choice, why should I? Lucina's judgment has the same issues. Your choice does not matter because Chrom stops her either way. It's only interesting if Robin is Lucina's Husband/Mother, because the choice feels more nuanced, but the this outcome depends on what character you S-support with, not in whether or not you accept Lucina's judgment. The last choice to strike down Grima does give a different enough ending that I can pass it, but the first 2 are simply not a good way to give the illusion of choice, since not only they don't change the outcome, they don't even change the way they reach the same outcome.

I think it foreshadows the main choice at the end that acutaully somewhat affects the story

I thought the first two choices were bang on what they needed to be. In fire emblem games, apart from a few key characters, your choices determine which of your characters live, and which die. Your mistakes kill your team. These choices put you completely in the characters shoes, because it’s the only time you’re being forced to make a decision not based upon stats. Not only that, but you are helpless after you make the decisions. Do you hold emmeryns life in your hands? No. Do you have control over your own life when talking to Lucina? No. So why should your choice make a difference to who loves ornaments dies in those situations?

Next title should be *Telltale Games: Fire Emblem*

I like how they do this because the only choice that matters in the one the main character makes. Kind of like it’s not up to you about what others do.

Personally I think I found a decent way to fix these 2 player choice options. Sacrifice Emmeryn: Yes: you get the exalt falchion later and have chrom become more powerful with the exalt getting more mt. No: you lose the fire emblem, which means that chrom cant get the exalt falchion, but you can recruit Emmeryn. Lucinas judgement: Yes: Lucina strikes robin but doesnt kill him. They are discovered and robin is taken to the healers tent. He cant play the next chapter or 2. No: Lucina yells to robin about if he even cares about his friends. She runs away. She cant be used for the next chapter or 2

I actually always thought it was done on purpose, when I was playing, I thought it was great the way that the choices are meant to make us feel immersed, to make us feel what is't like to not have your choice matter, to be helpless in the face of Fate, much like how the characters in the game felt and especially since defying fate was the theme of the whole story. Since I didn't actually see many other player comments on this particular subject until this video, I kinda assumed that it was unsubtle enough for most people to get it immediately, but that might be because I've seen this a few times in other games and I always thought it was a fantastic idea and it was nice to see it used in a bigger game

This is what I thought all along and I was probably one of few who remembered chrom's line

The choices you make in Awakening amount to what flavor of text you get.

I actually do remember that line from Chrom about being powerless - like you said, it really does echo the sentiment that you feel when you find out you have no choice despite the presentation. That said... Not sure if I like the choiceless choices, either. I think it more felt cheap because it has been done before commonly in games in much more mundane situations ("Do you want a Pokémon? No? Are you sure? No? Are you sure? No? Are you sure? Yes? Great!"); if this were the first time someone has created a "But Thou Must" situation, it'd be a lot more emotionally effective.

I remember spending about half an hour deciding weather to sacrifce emmeryn, i was so sad when she jumped becuase it felt like i wasted my time. But it put me in chroms shoes and made me actaully like him

And then there's me coming from the pokemon games where this kind of thing is done literally every choice you get.

I think it makes sense that the game ignored our choice. We can only control what our character does, not the other characters. Just because you choose not to give up on Emmeryn or choose to accept lucinas punishment doesn’t mean it will stop them. Let’s say you accept Lucina’s judgement, she could not stab you, or still stab you. Let’s say you don’t accept her judgement, she still has those options. You cannot control those characters. Only your own. That’s why I understand it. What you want isn’t always what you get. You are responsible for yourself. Your actions affect others and their actions affect you.

I think that part of what they might've (though I can't support this) been going for is trying to create a recurring theme for the players: is it worth sacrificing one for the greater good? All three choices kinda hit that theme in some way: Emmeryn's Sacrifice is weighing her life vs the future lives that the Fire Emblem would play a role in saving, Lucina's Judgment asks if you're willing to sacrifice yourself to save Chrom, and finally the Endgame asks you to weigh your life against those who would have to fight Grima in the future. The stakes get more personal, going from Emmeryn's life to your own, but you're always asked if you think the one life is worth the future risk. It's something that I think works only once, the first time through Awakening without any prior knowledge. Not knowing that your choice ultimately doesn't influence the game, you might make these decisions with much greater thought, even being willing to make the sacrifice "for the greater good." And Chrom's frustration in the first case could fit the player's as well, because no matter what, you'd feel powerless because you feel like your efforts are all for naught. I think the big issue, though, is that there are actually no true consequences for your decision. Sacrifice Emmeryn or no, the only change is a small bit of dialogue before Emmeryn does herself in. Lucina's Judgment just has Chrom break it up, with minor dialogue changes depending on your choice/relationship.. The ending is the only one with consequences, but none of you die anyway so there's no true reason to not sacrifice yourself to do Grima in. If they'd made the choices a bit more consequential - choosing to sacrifice Emmeryn, for instance, temporarily removes support bonuses with Chrom because he's hurt by your decision, or choosing to reject Lucina's Judgment results in a quick fight that, while broken up by Chrom, results in Lucina getting an injury and she can't fight the next battle - I think we would've been fine with the lack of overall influence the decisions had on the story.

To me the meaning of this is - at the beginning the player is powerless; everything is written. But at the endgame, the designers gave players a chance to decide the fate and future as in two possible endings. So, as is one of the themes of this game, we are able to write our own fates. Also a fun thing to think about: a later expansion of making choices made FE Fates into three separate game ;D

It is what it is. At the end of the day it achieved in evoking a response from the player. Sure it didn't have an impact of branching or changing the narrative. but, You can make a case of it fitting the theme of Awakening & Robin and it's foretold destiny, how despite your best efforts not everything can be salvaged or changed.

I like the idea or so used to our decisions having more weight in president over the rest of the story because where the player. But I think it would have been done better if they went further with the mechanic. By giving you more choices where you can actually feel the impact of them. Like maybe in the support conversations and then once you're used to this power. The game hit you upside the head with this choice that ultimately doesn't matter. I think that would have left a better impression of you feeling powerless.

The illusion of choice is so powerful it allowed telltale to make way too many games, and get away with it. Illusions once broken have no allure (fitting as my MC in fire emblem was named allureign)

I believe the choices are simply to engage the player more, by making them think through hard decisions but taking away the mechanic of having to replay just to get an alternate story (Not everyone wants to playthrough again for minor decisions) or feeling like their decisions was wrong. In my own belief this is the most likely scenario.

I played FE late, so I was already used to this thanks to telltale and life is strange. But at this point I feel like the choices say more about you rather than changing the storyline

I think the player choice thing makes a lot of sense, because the player choice aspects of the game are their own story. It's not about Chrom, it's about Lucina and her mission. Lucina wanted to go to the past to change it, but time is fighting against us the entire way. It's only at the end of the journey when we really are able to change things and control fate with our own hands. At least, that seems to be what they're going for, to me. All the acts before the final one feign player control because the characters aren't really in control of the situation the way they want to be, but they are able to take control by the end of the game and really make a difference in the game, not just being pawns to some ill conceived fate or master plan by some villain. That's just the way I took it, at least. Fates has a contrived narrative in many ways, but I actually liked this, if this is what they were really going for. That said, it makes me feel like we shouldn't have had a player character, cause we're clearly supposed to be embodying Chrom at these decisive moments and looking at these decisions and actions through his eyes

My main issue with "player choices" in Nintendo games is that I feel more often than not they always result in the same outcome (like it happened in Awakening or Zelda), a loop until you pick the right choice, or a joke and non-standard game over if you pick the wrong one (Paper Mario). I personally feel this happens in JRPG in general due to their more streamlined stories compared to their Western counterpart. Though that might be me having played the wrong games in the genre. If meaningless choices weren't so common in Nintendo games, I could agree the powerlessness in Emmeryn's death could have that impact. But as it stands the continued use of this, even in Awakening itself, feels more like just another example of this trope with no further meaning.

Maybe the illusion of branching choice is actually a super deep metaphor for the themes of inescapable fate in the game. Nah, probably not.

I feel that some choices aren't simply yes/no. Some units may die if the player finds it necessary to beat the stage but they are unusable and they might not fill in for dialogue they normally say. In fates conquest they had a better-ish choice. [Spoilers for Fates Conquest/Echoes] In echoes, Clive will get mad at Alm when Mathilda dies or if Alm kills Zeke, the villagers of Rigel Village will be more hostile or how there is alternate dialogue when certain things happen. You can sacrifice Shura in chapter 16 to get boots or let him live to have him as a playable unit and there is extra dialogue if he fights Kotaro. The problem is that it won't affect anything afterwards.

Justify it how you like, give the developers all the slack you want, it doesn't change it's bad writing. They could ignore your choice for Emm's death but they would have to write Chrom's reaction after the fact based on what you had done. He didn't question Robin once, at least in my memory he didn't. He didn't even act any different, they didn't have to have multiple stories(even though it would add to the poor replayablitiy the game has) When playing Taletell's The Walking Dead I wanted be a good role model for Clem, so seeing "Clementine will remember that" left a larger impact than Awakening did.

this an oldish video and not even my take but from a person that got me to play this game that avatars choice is about letting them be selfish letting them hold on to the hope of saving emmeryn despite the hopelessnes for the situation , defending themselves against Lucinas accuastion , staying with your friends but leaving grima to be resurected

I think the Emmeryn choice could've been impactful had Chrom's line where he really nails home the point of it being a helpless struggle been put in sooner. Instead, the chapter ends, and you have to clear another chapter before you get to that line. At that point, you're commanding your army again and the player has regained their agency, so the helpless mood is mostly gone, in favor of a more grieving and conflicted one to to match the battle in the mire. Maybe if there was a scene in between Emmeryn's death and the battle against Mustafa where Chrom expresses his frustration, it would've been more impactful to the player and it would feel less like the game is just being cheap and instead is trying to get the player to empathize with Chrom.

My opinion on this appears to be a little... strange, possibly because of how I play games like this, where I try to get into the POV character's head as much as possible and view the proceedings through that lens. In this case, I see the choice as essentially being over what I, as the Avatar, choose as my preferred option. Ultimately that ends up not mattering, but that's not because the choice itself is flawed, it's not, it's because it wasn't my choice that mattered. Given the situation, given what had just happened and was currently happening, even as I was making my decision, she was making hers, and in the end there was only one way that was going to turn out. I ended up choosing to sacrifice her, because, functioning as a tactician (you know, the job you're supposed to do), that was the only way to ensure that at least something came out of that place intact. I felt a resonance from this scene, but it wasn't for Chrom. It was for Emmeryn. We looked at the same situation, and drew the same conclusion. Better to sacrifice what is ultimately just a single leader, who, while charismatic, was not irreplaceable, in exchange for ensuring that we would survive long enough for the pendulum to swing back in our favor. And ultimately, we were right. Really, the choices are important because they are choices. Whether the results change or not doesn't matter. the choices exist in order to prompt you to think, both as yourself and as your Avatar, about what is before you, because these aren't easy choices. They aren't simple, and the answer you come up with is important, whether it changes anything or not. But... that's just my two cents.

Great video! At least in the case of Emmeryn's death that was meant to be an illusion of choice. The choice was never meant to be Chrom's choice. It was purely Emmeryn. It didn't matter what he did she had already made up her mind that she was going to sacrifice herself. So, on that one at least, they're kind of justified.

Illusory choice is a problem that I feel many games have. For me personally the emotional impact of these scenes is not cheapened by this short coming.

Actually, I don't think it's about a matter of choice. It's about life having it's own process without you actually being able to do anything about it. Those choices are important, because they don't matter. You don't have the right to choose what another person will or will not do. Emmeryn made the choice for you. It's not about being "ignored". It's about "something you didn't plan happening, happened".

As much as I thought you made good points, I felt more sorry for Chrom than angry. You have to understand that I was THIS close to marrying Chrom before I settled on marrying Frederick. So, to see that precious sweetheart crying just made me want to cuddle him. That and I consider myself emphatic (with exceptions of course) so that was just second nature.

I kinda expected more to be honest. The 'illusion of choice' issue seen with many player-given choices (like in inFamous games) seems to go a step further here. Since we're on the topic of Emm's death, it seemed most redundant to me to have the option to 'sacrifice' her entirely, especially given that she returns in the SpotPass DLC later in the game. In that sense, though she is thought dead the majority of the game, what direct consequence came from 'losing' her in Chapter 10? Temporary emotional buildup? Plot point of keeping the Emblem? Sparing Chrom the guilt of the choice? The game goes a step further than 'ignoring players' but downright nullifying the purpose of a choice entirely is what I was thinking would be addressed here. As far as Lucina's Judgement (Idk I personally thought it wouldn't matter since the Prologue, Invisible Ties was a cutscene from a fight we'd not even seen yet) and the wholly skipped Final Blow on Grima? I can't put it in my best words at the moment, but of all of them, I was just expecting more.

Just to add my two bits, I think the first choices were there to mostly foreshadow, rather than give the player any feeling of agency. "Would you be willing to sacrifice one person, however beloved, in order to save the world? Your friend's sibling, and a strong leader? What about yourself? Even if it saves the future (and that's a big IF), your friends will mourn you in the present." With that said, though, the game handled choice kinda badly, and I agree with the points raised in this video.

the sole "choice" that I actually enjoyed the implementation of was Emmeryn's sacrifice, none of the other options succeeded in conveying the concept of inevitable fate/destiny. Even the decision of who deals the final blow in the end fails, as "the power of friendship" kicks in, removing any actual impact to your decision. Awakening is flawed in many aspects, but there are definitely some well implemented ideas, or at least ideas that you can comprehend, but weren't executed properly.

I really need to replay this game

thankfully emmeryn's miracle procced

I can’t speak to whether or not this works, but there is a certain relevancy to the idea of being offered branching paths that lead to the same point. The game in many ways is about wrestling with fate, and even if it’s unsatisfying, it works narratively with the plight against destiny!

What's the song that plays at 1:05? That melody is so familiar.

I personally believe they wanted the player to think and come to a decision on their own, even if the outcome was unavoidable. It's something only really effective on the first playthrough, but I didn't really take issue with it. It also makes it more rewarding when your final decision in the end actually matters. It's just a shame that knowing both endings there is no narrative reason to seal Grima away, if you know that things will work out better when you kill him without the Avatar sacrificing themselves. I didn't have huge problems with Awakenings narrative, even if it's far from my favourite story in an FE game.

Lucina's judgement I find funny because at that point, Robin can normally one-shot her or at least defeat her with minimal effort. I normally just go U wot M8?!

I love Awakening, but I am very aware of its flaws. The "choices" being a major one that I feel wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been. Someone above already mentioned that the choices could have been used to alter how other characters interact with the avatar (since Robin is meant to be a stand in for the player) but if I could change up at least one of the choices, I would change the final choice so that if Robin is the one that kills Grima its left ambiguous if he survives or not. I think this would make his sacrifice much more impactful and really drive home the whole "the strength of our bonds" aspect of the game. If he was to return, maybe have the cutscene where Chrom and Lissa find him again play only if Robin gets enough supports with the rest of the cast during the playthrough. Or, have the Fates DLC with Awakening be an epilogue instead of a prologue. After the DLC ends and Corrin goes back to their world, Chrom can mention how Corrin reminded him of Robin somewhat and that he truly hopes to see his friend again. He, Frederick and Lissa could then visit the area they first found Robin to reminisce only to find him like they did the first time. We get the ending dialogue for Awakening, Robin reunites with Chrom and the Shepherds, happy ending. Thoughts?

You know JRPGs with fake choices have been a thing since oh.... the beginning of JRPGs. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing even slightly surprising about choices that make no difference, and I don't understand why anyone would assume it would be different.

Realistically the only choice I care about is what units I use, and may what promotion I choose like SS.

*Spoilers* The redundant choices in awakening are symbolic of it's story. The game is about trying to prevent the destruction of the whole Fire Emblem world, and how no matter what is done, they can't change the future. Emmeryn died in the last timeline, so even though you managed to stop her assassination, she still jumps no matter what you do. The player killed Chrom in the last timeline, so he lives until that point in this timeline. Take note that all the choices happen at points that didn't exist in the previous timeline. The only choice that matters (the very last one) is the only one that takes place after the player makes his plan to save Chrom. He has already fundamentaly changed the events of the world and defied fate by this point, so now choices matter and have an effect. The choice to save the world or save the player happens outside of 'fate', but the rest are not, so they cannot change. The choices in Awakening serve to reinforce important plot points in the player's mind, and certain themes: the player feels powerless and is inclined to agree with Validar when he tells them you cannot work against the future. The choices strengthen Awakening's story, although it may frustrate the gameplay.

I always took it as a fate thing Lucina came from the future to change the past and fails in all attempts except for the last one to destroy grima.

I kinda like that it puts you in a tough spot, I think her death wouldn't have had as much impact for me if not for the choice. That said, it does make the whole thing a bit silly once you realize it doesn't make a difference...

Eh, not bad on this video. I kinda knew the choices were useless before watching this video. Edit: You earned a sub!

A fix for this issue would be dialog variance like how FFXIV does

Background song at part 2?

Yes. The game makes you angry with the Emmyryn choice. It gives you a target for the anger as well. Gangrel. They give you an emotional sad chapter to feel upset in, a chapter to make anyone cry in... And then afterwards, you get an outlet to kill the one who caused the death, who made you have to choose, even if the choice didn't matter. You get to kill -(well, nearly kill canonically)- Gangrel. It makes the death have IMPACT, and it makes another chapter feel more satisfying. That is why THAT choice, despite making no difference, still works. Meanwhile the Lucina one is shit unless you married her or Chrom. And even then, both answers are similar, anyway. The Lucina one is dumb.

My big problem with that choice is saving Emmeryn shouldn't have been hard. By that point the game had given me a rescue staff, which I had equipped (I don't recall to who) and they were within range. I know its a linear story and that saving her just wasn't too be but I found myself constantly angry at Chrom for not seeing the easy solution to his problems and just doing dumb stuff and no more so than here. I didn't empathise with him, just felt frustrated that he was so unintelligent.

what`s the song at the start?

It is pretty obvious the lack of choice about Emmeryn's sacrifice is so that the player shares Chrom's frustration about his grave loss. The only reason why players got frustrated is because they're used to their choices have giant effects, like starcraft and mass effect. Another game that gives false choices a great meaning is The Stanley Parable.

Before even getting to the meat of the video, I'm gonna make a guess: Those choices were narrative tools to show the supposed futility of trying to change the course of time(Emm still dies, Grima is still revived), only for the final choice, the one that truly has the potential to shift the course of history, to actually take effect: Does Grima sleep or die? And with that, on to the video!

The character being named Omega was weird for me cause that was my character's name

dis gon' be good!

RIP Emmeryn 1 like - 1 Prayer For Emmeryn

That's something I didn't like in Awakening, I've obliterated the enemy, then enemy reinforcements appears, I think: "No problem, I can take them down too..." then Emmeryn decides to die and my first tough was: "That was stupid..." If the execution where better, making the player to feel that there is no hope, maybe then her death would be more meaninful, but from my view point, she died for anything, I knew Gangrel won't stop, so her death felth forced, just to try to make you feel sorry for Chrome and Lucina... That don't work for me, it could be handled better...

Fun fact: Emmeryn lives

the first decision is great... because you dont really know how the game works... but after that.. if again and again your decision dont matter it turns into the player dont care anymore on the decisions he made.... so after that point the whole system lose their value... many game does that.. like xilia 2.. and after one or 2 meanless decision... suddenly the player dont care anymore with all decisions... and sometimes the player lose their will and immersity on the game just to proof it doesnt matter...

a little shift in dialogue depending on the choice would have been nice though, even if the result was going to be the same.