That button messes with component power and adds heat, or has in the past.. The -20% reduction on top of the emmission values, I dont think is accurate - think its already been taken into account.. but if its been tested, thats neat. As for computers all being equalized to 1.0x targets highest emissions = range, again, neat, though in the past s1 was like 0.75x, s2 was 1.0, s3 was like 1.25x ... so not sure if thats changed or not.
whats best about it? where in the video he put a second person with stealth components, and checked the range for its appearing with scan? then the same with military components? instead he asks for comments, which of course are more reliable information source than testing.
It’s been years since I’ve tested stealth, so please forgive me if things have changed. Cross section only comes into play if your ship has its broad side exposed to your enemy. If your nose is pointed directly at them, then your cross section is effectively 0. This is very important for the Eclipse but doesn’t seem to mean much for that Firebird because your IR is very close to your cross section value. Again, maybe things have changed, your cross section seems a lot smaller than what I remember it usually is for that ship size. EDIT: Okay, yeah. Just logged in and looked at my Eclipse and my CS is about the same as my IR and EM, so it looks like it's changed. CS used to be like 15,000. So, it'll be much harder to test if CS still works the same.
Cross section still takes into effect its one of the reasons why people hate cs missiles a lot, as they effectively can lose lock if the enemy turns the right way.
@@undeadpeaklast I saw, cs missiles were still the most effective because ship direction didn’t affect cs sig (maybe it did in the past) so it was the most guaranteed way to keep missiles locked on target
Cool video! I'm often playing stealthy and like to approach NPC enemies so fast that they can't shoot missiles. You can disable your quantum drive in NAV mode manually in the power menu to engage with maximum speed, then quickly swap the mode and shoot at them before they even realize you're there. Also the cockpit HUD's shown IR/CS/EM values include the -20% of the Firebird already, you can easily test this with ships that have stealth variants - for example the Razor. Also be careful with the IR supression, because if you see the HEAT number rising afterwards your components will overheat. I rarely supress larger shields, because those tend to overheat very quickly, it depends on the ship & shield size. Stealth shields overheat slower due to less heat generation (the ventilation symbol in Erkul), that's also their current main purpose. They don't magically reduce your EM or IR, but build up less heat, so your IR will not rise as much if you're flying around a lot non-stop with active or regenerating shields. Someone else in the comments already wrote it down, but your actual cross-section is not a fixed number, but changes with the angle enemies look at you. The Firebird/Raven has a tiny cross-section if you look at it frontal for example, so you can get even closer than 5km with your nose directly pointed towards the enemy.
The cross Section value shown is the highest of the 3 cross section values that make up a ship. In the case of the firebird it is when veiwed from the side. When viewed from the front its CS is 808. So in the case where the EM is highest, dropping shields WILL help with detection.
The Stealth button on power MFD does set the limiter lower. This USED to be effective when you would reorder priority using the arrow buttons on the ITEMS tab in the power MFD. The arrows raised/lowered the priority of components. Then if you went over the limit, it would give power preferentially to the things with higher priority. So for instance it would charge your shields before your guns to keep your total power usage down. This all got destroyed in 3.14 when they moved to magic capacitors and decided to make the power triangle a minigame instead of managing the power simulation.
I'd take the laser cannons and just use the benefit of the reduction . its quicker to finish them off. I think bigger ships have a larger range, unless ive missed it.
Yes, putting on Omnisky 9s or Quarrelers on it doesn't increse the EM or IR high enough to beat out that CS signature, while giving you a reliable weapon that doesn't run out of ammo before you finish off your target.
Love the rogue-ish feel of the Firebird's stealth capabilities. Just picked up one myself (RIP wallet) and having so much fun with the zoom by and then turning back to melt faces with 6 missiles. I suck at general dogfighting so I think this is the perfect ship for me. Thanks for explaining how everything works.
Very good video and I don't mind ships like this that look cool and fit a niche I think that's what the game needs is more niche ships like this because it's fun to run with a group and play the outside and swoop in and launch missiles then fly out
In 3.22, if you full scan the target, you can subcomponent target. In the past, 3.20, you could then dump missiles and focus that component down - Top Right Engine for example.. on a Connie that takes its shield with it when the location dies. Things to test in 3.23. Finally, why "EM missiles are best" Its not about lock range, lock time, speed or damage. Its about Explosion Radius. Taskforce1's are stupid with a splash RADIUS of 14m. They do limited damage, ect ect ect so they arent lethal, but when you look at component Hp vs explosion radius vs damage.. thats where s4's, doing ~4000d, in a 9m radius, when s1-2 components only have about 3k hp, are scary. That said, very few ships can boat s4's, unlike s3 or s1's. S3's (tbolts) are fairly effective, radius of ~4m, and a little over 3000damage. S2's arent ideal, even thought they are one of the most easy sizes to boat, because their radius is again around 2-3m, but their damage is sub 3k. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Great vid Foxy, one suggestion I have, is to put the quarrelers or M5As on BUT turn them off until you get into fighting. That way to keep the great damage of laser cannons, whilst also maintaining stealth.
This ship handles like a dream with awesome sound effects. Good to know stealth doesn’t work right. I’ll stop putting my ships at a disadvantage then lol.
I appreciate you taking the time to figure this ship out instead of jumping on the hate train like a lot of people. This game needs more ships that fit these very unique situations. I may have to try that tonight :)
Great video, thank you again. I've also heard that detection distance is also affected by the radar size of the other ships. Something like 85% for small, 90% for medium, and 95% for large. Never tested myself but I thought I would throw it out there.
For full stealth, you unequip guns and shield components. Leave one power plant and one cooler equipped. Now you're at effectively your most undetectable signatures when your engines are cooled and you are directly facing the target.
Coming from an era where stealth actually worked, IR decreases automatically after about 20 minutes, we used to run Mantis, with full stealth components, turn off shields, and make sure your QT IS POWERED OFF. I used to test it on the Raven we could get it down to 3k. But this was a long time ago, until CIG tell us that Stealth components actually do what they are supposed to ( not every shield does the same thing, apart from EMP recovery). I watch every single video you make Foxy, I love your enthusiasm when playing, very much I love the way you make content Glad you tested the Firebird, I bought one because I have a Raven and love you he looks. As for my opinion on the ship??? Well if they gave us EMP missiles, this ship would be Amazing.
Thank you so much for watching my videos, really appreciated. Yeah I watched the old videos about the stealth play, some are really incredible and fun, I really hope CIG can get more attention on this area. And EMP missiles would be a total blast!
Thanks for the deep dive! Will definitely be sure to study this video, as this is one of the rare single-seater fighters that got my attention. The aesthetics, sound design, and the idea of rapid pepepepepepewwwww are really appealing. I'm not too bothered by performance anyway no matter the doomposting, but it's great to see a good investigation to how to make the most out of the ship.
tbh i dont like the firebird, i wish it would have gotten a quantum dampener and not dumb missiles. Only 2 size 3 weapons and then only 12 missiles? not good enough. its cool that you can shoot 6 at a time but that means you get only 2 attempts + not enough missile payload to take out multiple targets. but i really like the design and i am very happy that you can get a sabre version with that sleek design.
I wish the cross-sesection detection value would decrease if you flew closer to the ground or to other debris. That would be cool as well as good gameplay.
You’re really using all the strengths of this amazing new ship. The speed agility and low signature to dash in and out of range. Its range of missiles. I think 12 is too few, cool that you can fire a volley of 6. I hear they’re increasing the payload tho.
You missed a bit if info. 3000 would be up to 3Km, and this would be dependent on the radar in the ship, as a 90% radar would detect 3000 EM at 2400 meters
If im going in stealth with a missle ship. Eclipse and the firebird now. Turn off your main weapons and shields. Manually tuen off quantum drive in mfd then get into range. Unload ur missles then dip out. Ideally before they see u on there radar and if im coming above target sometimes ill disable my engines and "fall" into the missle range then power on everything and try and get out.
Nice vid, good kill on the Hammerhead. According to erkul, the Firebird lacks some of the stealth of the other Sabres as well (-20% instead of -40%). It'd probably be even more effective if this is corrected.
The cross section data you gave was incorrect. Cross section value is relative to your largest cross section. In that ship, it would be looking at your ship from above or below, known as the pancake view.
wow i learned allot today! keep it up and please update if they fix this :) and btw how to camera missiles minea arent wokring under missiles and camera toggle
Firebirds! Energy weapons! All those things are interesting to me I don't care where you get them I need them both and I need them urgently _Clutch - Firebirds_
Fun fact about cross section is that it is dependent on how you’re facing the enemy, for example the fire birds front on CS is 646 on the sides is 5174 and belly on is 4441. So be face on as much as possible.
With a bit more firepower like four S3 this ship would be one of the best in the game. Great speed agility but criminally underpowered with guns. And it is pretty much made of glass.
yeah so your missiles punched that hammerhead right in the power generators I think, even if it didn't fully disable its powerplants it gave it too little power to maintain shields and thrust. Nice one.
My man, use laser cannons and turn your weapons off. They dont put out any EM until you turn them on. Approach and fire missiles. Turn guns and shields on, finish target.
Also, turn off a cooler, you only need one. And turn off your QT drive. If you're in space, decouple move towards the target amd turn your engines off. I've gotten my EM as low as 300
And you're cross-section "emmision" only matters if they actively ping you. It doesn't allow a target lock or even reveal a chevron. IR and/or EM is what determines whether they can target you or see your chevron
Haven't tired it in this patch, but I know the different is, firebird can fire 6 missiles one after another, the Strike can only fire 4 missiles, but have to fire one by one a bit slower than the firebird
They're going to give the Firebird the full 40% reduction for IR which is really big... it'll be exciting when real stealth components are in and we can enjoy the real F22 experience of the Firebird! EDIT: And with the doubling of missiles now, you could have killed the HH probably in one go, and both the MSR and connie without rearming!
-Components -altitude -ir supression in power settings -engage stealth mode in HUD If you fly close to the surface the enemy has a hard time detecting you
@ShadowOfHistory-wn1xh literally no. Ive been using that same tactic since 2.18. With the eclipes. The slower your SCM and the altitude matter. If youre gonna tell me im wrong at least try it first
Yeah, the missile problem can be overcome in certain ways, but sometimes the server lag will cause missile to be non-effective. And the 20% stealth reduction should be a bug, I hope.
I tested the firebird all day yesterday and found it to be good at one thing only. Speed. The missiles wouldn't lock on half the time the ships not very good at dogfighting and dies almost instantly. Super squishy. It's stealth seems to be somewhat decent but NPC's find me at 9km away.
The speed of this ship is incredible, and if play correctly you can get your detection range down to lower than 5k, just remember don't get to NAV mode, in NAV mode, your detection range is 10k + and there is no way to get that down.
@@cpt_foxyloxy Yah I know all the stealth tricks from my many eclipse adventures. I just wish the missiles were more potent, or that I could have 24 size 2 rattlers and launch 6 at once... because reasons. I however did not know there was a missile tracking camera I must investigate that function.
So its just clicked for me if I solo a larger ship like a connie its going to be better if I remove all the "manned" turrets that I am not using to reduce my signature.
I wrote a pair of pretty extensive guides on how radar and stealth work. Link to my Substack is on my channel page. But it's a common misconception that CS signature can't be reduced. I'm also not sure where you got the information that radars have been equalized. Is it something new? Last I checked, they weren't, but that was a couple of patches ago, when I wrote the stealth guide.
This is wonderful, thank you! I wish I had found your page earlier. But I am gonna do a second video for this ship and the stealth after the new patch drops, so I will be using and crediting your page. It is quite difficult to find updated SC stealth resources in writing, and this is most appreciated.
@@cpt_foxyloxy Thank you! I've very eager to find out what your experience will be, what has changed since 3.21, and if I'm wrong or have misunderstood anything. I'm very confident in my research, but also excited by the possibility of discovering something I may have overlooked.
Firebird is only 20% stealth reduction, not 40% like the normal Sabre or Raven. Check Erkul for confirmation. It's slower and less agile than the Avenger. I want to love it, but it's underwhelming imo. You would have been better off in an Eclipse. Interesting ideas though with nav mode stealth implications.
stealth stuff hasnt worked sense 3.15 sense the great flatening. but stealth stuff use to have lower EM, IR and CS. if you covered a eclipse in All stealth and used the Low power/suppression mode, turned off ur shields and disabled ur projectile guns, you could be about 650m from a target before you would get spotted. it was insane. Fighting a modern hover bike in space will give you a good example of what it use to be like. except back then it was throwing S9s at you that were bugged and couldnt be dodged.
can you also confimr a thing for me. If im out of detection range and i lock missiles on to antoher player "pvp" is he getting noticed even tho im stealthed.... ?
basically that is, there is no speed difference or anything, just QTM you can use QT, and FLT just don't see the QT sign on your screen and you can't use QT, that's it.
Quantum always spools in NAV FLT you just don't see the interface. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't spooling. You can turn off the quantum drive in the power MFD to stop it from spooling, but then you're stuck at SCM speeds in NAV mode.
How do you trick them dropping the shield and stay idle afterwards? I tried but they won't stop chasing me... I was in a normal sabre with all stealth equipments, having the max signature of 4000ish, so they should unlock me when I am 4000m away?
with NPC and with server lag, this is not always true, but if you are in NAV mode, the detection range will be longer. So you drop in alert them, and fly out until you see on your MFD your enemy drops shield, and then turn back prepare to fight.
