I hadn't thought about it before, but has anyone else noticed that we've been saying things like "the last of the rwd manual sports cars" for like 20 years now?
Supra gets a lot of hate but its smaller, lighter, more agile and with far far better weight balance vs the 2JZ motor predecessor. B58 engine can also handle lots of boost and is reliable.
I don't hate the new supra, only the mk4. In saying that, however, the gr supra is still quite hefty for its size, but it is a bmw at the end of the day
That's what enthusiasts do, nit pick everything and buy used. When the 2JZ Supra came out it didn't sell and got a lot of hate, so did the original NSX. This is a car we will look back and regret we didn't buy, esp the manual.
Toyota makes money, guys. That's what automakers do. When you are a top manager and walk in the room with the bosses, are they here for hearing how Toyota is doing in urban tuners culture? No. They are here to hear if they are doing okay in sales, and stable and far from bankruptcy. They've been bitten in the ass when developing LFA for 10 years only to flop badly, losing a billion dollars (really, a billion) . They lost a lot of time and money, and came out with negative balance. Toyota goes with safe options and high sales. Those ould be family saloons, and hatchbacks. And can we blame them and hate then at the end of the day
I'm not sure any car from 30 years ago is really meant to be the main reference point for the performance and refinement of a brand new car, shared name badges or not...
There's such an unbelievable amount of demand for RWD manual cars that there's no reason they should stop making them. Engines keep getting more efficient each year, and it makes economic sense for companies with a motorsport division to keep making them. The 86/BRZ competitions are very accessible for amateur drivers, and it would be idiotic to throw away all the hard work that built that up over the decades.
Politicians particularly in Europe secure seats by promising tighter regulations on ICEs. The majority of general public there dont care about the legacy of RWD sports cars
Sadly this is not true. There's unfortunately never been a lesser demand for sports cars. High R&D costs, low sales figures, emissions etc has put massive question mark on the future of sports cars. Combine that with the fact that too many so called enthusiasts never buy new cars you have even lesser attractive sports car prospect for manufacturers.
@@scootergrant8683 it feels like a driver's car. Quite raw by modern standards. Nice steering feel and you can feel the chassis rotate around you. The tactile sensations improve the faster you go as well making it more alive the harder you push. great interior ergonomics for driving position and pedal position.
I’m a tradie and I get to drive my manual rear wheel drive Toyota Hiace everyday. It even makes cool turbo sounds from its Diesel engine. It also only has one driving mode from the factory. 😂
These are actually super under rated from the factory. US spec ones are dynoing at 210-215 wheel horsepower and 170-175 ft pounds. Using 15% drivetrain loss, this works out to about 247-252 flywheel horsepower and 200-205 foot pounds of torque at the flywheel. So they make about 25 hp and 15 ft pounds more than even they say it does lol
That makes sense, because the 2.0L (FA20) in the GT86 made 205hp, or 102.5hp/liter. Now utilizing all the same engine technology and techniques, the GR86 increased the displacement to 2.4L by increasing bore size. There’s no reason it shouldn’t still be making 102.5hp/liter….So 102.5hp * 2.4 = 246hp for the GR86/‘22+ BRZ. 228hp advertised is almost certainly sandbagging the actual number.
They will, if more people buy it new, not just thank Toyota for making it and wait for them to trickle on the market, depreciate and enthusiasts pick one up for buttons.
The 86 is just such a wonderful car there's no other car like it... It's perfect in every way, you can recline your seat and sleep the seats are so comfortable and the interior is so sound and cozy, you have plenty of room to pack up for vacation or camping. The handling makes you feel like a professional right out of the gate, the sound system is above average, the simplicity of the interior makes you feel like you're sitting in a classic, nothing overwhelming about this car, it is the perfect balance. I can't find a reason to change my daily... I couldn't live without my 86
this is awesome to hear because i’ve recently been thinkin of trading in my corolla hatch for one and everything i’ve heard so far is definitely makin it seal the deal for me. can’t wait to finally have a fun rwd daily
If it's not a drop-top or targa, it can never be the perfect sportscar for me. Once you have that open air feeling while driving on a curvy country road, you'd never want to go back to a solid roof vehicle, no matter how light it is.
Thanks, you confirmed what I also concluded about the GR86. I just bought one and I am totally loving it. Ya just can't drive the 86 without smiling. It is soo much fun.
Other than pushing the end of petrol cars, good video. Thank-you TOYOTA for helping to #SaveTheManuals. 10 years ago I wouldn't have guessed TOYOTA would be helping to save performance cars and manual transmission vehicles. WELL DONE TOYOTA. I might purchase both to help keep cars like these alive!.
@Supra RCJPOP my '21 supra hasn't gone down in value at all since I bought it, it's actually a fantastic investment right now especially in this market.
All this "disappointed by the Supra" bullshit... it's a fantastic car that people blag on about "it's a BMW". It's a well build, fantastic car... and sure the manual box is what petrol heads wanted, and we got it. ALL modern cars are heavy with the huge amount of electronics and safety kit.
This is very probably ongoing Right now. The gt3 concept with it's long hood is screaming Mazda collaboration rx9 vibes. I believe, from my imperfect point of view, that the i3 we have in the gr Corolla and Yaris, are irl test mules for the i6 in that gt3 concept.
I mean the Mk4 Supra was not a sports car, it was a GT compared to the other Japanese competition. It's a beast for drag race and touring. If you wanted a light sports car you went for the RX7. The Nissan and Mitsubishi options kinda split the difference. We act like the Mk4 was the RX7 lol.
True that and I'm flabbergasted that this point is not mentioned more often. Yes the following cars here from Japan in the 90s were awesome: RX7, 3000GT, WRX, Evo, Celica, Prelude, S2000, Miata, MR-2, Supra, 300ZX; but they were often nothing alike (eg Miata or MR2 vs. 3000GT or 300ZX) and these days you'll see people comparing Miatas to GR86s...like, what?!?!
Literally only person that has complained about the Supra. Car is properly balanced and is a solid sports car. Having the 6spd option just makes it much better.
“ The people who make loads of dishwashers “ The disrespect. Toyota has made over 30 sports cars and sporty cars or more in their lifetime. Toyota has a very colorful racing heritage and history. Have some respect. Some People like to ignore Toyota’s history
Interesting: this is one of the most aggressive reviewers of the car. Meanwhile, a lot of other magazines had much better things to say about the original MK5 supra. As an owner, and an owner of a fair bit of other sports cars, this reviewer is way off the mark with the comments about the car being lazy and feeling heavy. First, it weighs less than nearly every other car in its class and it has quite quick and twitchy steering. My gripe is that it is too twitchy and takes away confidence in the turns / switchbacks. I felt more confidence in driving my F80 than I do in the Supra, BUT the Supra has some nice bits to the experience (like the exhaust) that compensate for the twitchyness at the limit.
Got a grey GR86 on the 2nd of September, I believe it was one of the last brand new ones sold in the UK, it's brilliant fun, the dash everything it needs to say
I test drove a Supra and it is fast and fancy and nice looking, but I did not feel connected to the road like I do with my 86, which is what made me fall in love with my gr
There're always haters in every supra video. These same people will be crying even more 10 years from now when there are no RWD gas powered cars left for them to buy.
Got mine last month. What a great car! What is also great about it is if toyota doesn't have parts (which they don't currently where I am at) you can always get parts from subaru
@@gerglmuff Notwithstanding that Grand Tourer is referenced by Toyota in it’s own marketing and within the first sentence of Supra’s wiki page… and the fact that it’s sold in ‘GT’ form in parts of the world? Car classifications are murky at the best of times but the Supra spans the GT space imho
@@ju4121 the new Lotus uses a Toyota V6 engine but that’s about it. On the other hand, the new Supra uses more than just the engine from BMW. The interior is BMW (buttons, and a old gen infotainment system), the pedals look just like the Z4, the chassis (the wheelbase is the same than the Z4!)… those are a few of the many things that are shared with BMW. Oh! Another thing, both the Z4 and the Supra are assembled in the same plant in Austria (idk if today, 2022 it’s still the case tho, I’d assume so..)
Really wish they'd clean up some of the styling "vents" on the Supra. Even just the removing the vents on the doors would go a long way to cleaning up the design in my opinion.
Yes !!! THOUGHT THE SAME...ITS NOT A MID ENGINE FOR GODS SAKE THEYRE USELESS!! WOULD LOOK ALOT CLEANER WITHOUT THEM AND MORE REMINISCENT OF THE 2JZ Supra's..Still wish it was a proper Toyo powerplant and chassis...Subaru and Toyo need to stay performance minded ESPECIALLY SINCE STUPID SUBARU CANCELLED NEW STI !!!!!!??
I'm getting rid of my beloved FK08 type R for a GR86. The civic is an absolute weapon, but I fine myself pining for RWD and I have to get my fix while I still can. it arrives in 3 weeks :D
I love my '22 BRZ. She handles and performs so well and makes driving fun, Every. Single. Time. She also outperforms average drivers on the road which always puts a smile on my face. lol
GR86 uses the same cruise control lever as my 8 year old Hilux. I guess the Toyota parts bin is well engineered so everything just works. I know it's not a sports car but every single thing on my Hilux works. Like the day it was new. It has never failed to start. And I've given it some shit. I live on a farm, it's off road and on road every single day. I got to hand it to Toyota, if they have made these sports cars as well as their old pickups they'll go on for ever.
This was a pretty disappointing video considering it's from Top Gear. I love the GR86 and defend entry level sports cars right to exist, but wow this guy really didn't give the Supra a fair shake at all. Why even include it in the video if the "comparison" is like... 30 seconds long.
The Supra has been talked about to death, this model is an improvement, but it’s not transformational, still will be the one to buy if you think long term, more lower, lighter and manual all bode well for future values
It’s a blatantly biased video geared towards the GR86. He jumped into the seat of the Supra with nothing but negative comments from the start. He then immediately went into the 86 talking it up and dismissing that it’s slower in every aspect and has shitty interior. Combine that with a WORSE fuel economy and almost half the power? It’s overall a far worse car. As somebody who’s driven both cars (Supra in auto) I would argue that the Supra is just as refined but has so much more to offer. Now factoring in budget is a different story. If you can only afford the GR86 then that’s the car to get, but if your budget is over 50k I wouldn’t even glance at it. The video ends with him calling the GR86 the best sports car in Toyotas line-up which is pretty much a blatant disregard of the Supra’s capabilities.
@@HayateV3 with how much tech they had to cram into it because of using BMW parts im very doubtful that they feel anywhere near as engaging and grounded as the gr86. That's the overall argument i keep hear against the car, all its inputs feel artificial and not as connected as youd expect from an actual sports car. Im not saying its an objectively bad car but i feel its more comparable to something like an Infiniti q60 red sport, a grand touring coupe with enough power to raise your hair but cushy and filled with electronic assists to make your daily commute melt into the background.
@@HayateV3 with how much tech they had to cram into it because of using BMW parts im very doubtful that they feel anywhere near as engaging and grounded as the gr86. That's the overall argument i keep hear against the car, all its inputs feel artificial and not as connected as youd expect from an actual sports car. Im not saying its an objectively bad car but i feel its more comparable to something like an Infiniti q60 red sport, a grand touring coupe with enough power to raise your hair but cushy and filled with electronic assists to make your daily commute melt into the background.
As a 2nd generation BRZ owner for 2 years. The twins are amazing street sports car. Eager to be playful but also a best friend in slide. I can even foot to floor without fear of being flung into a tree or breaking the law (too much) However if you have access to a track then I would go for Supra which can punch above its power if your good enough driver. I just know that give me power & I’ll use it and get myself into trouble.
The only problem at this point are dealerships or should I say stealerships. I had to go out of state for my Neptune GR86 Premium to find a dealer that did msrp and actually had one that wasn't reserved yet. I feel it will be just as bad to get a manual Supra and I expect huge markups.
Frankly, this vid wasn't really what I expected. About 3/4 of the vid he was just talking about the GR 86. This isn't a vs challenge here just a lot of talking while driving.
@Jansen Stettler depends on the year and mileage on your s2k. If the miles are low enough and it's an 06+ I'd side for the Honda. You'll probably retain most of your money in the long run with it too. S2k prices have been on a steady climb the past few years annoyingly for me. I can't believe I could have had a low mileage club racer for under 30k just 6 years ago. Now it's just about double.
I love the GR86/BRZ. Have an 13 FRS right now (US GT86) and I’m running it out until the last possible minute to buy a new GR as I think we might not have many choices here in the near future so I want to get one to last me a while (have a daily so these cars see few miles).
I had a 2013 FR-S as well - until Friday! I gave the GR86 a lot of consideration, but ultimately the Supra won me over, ZF8 auto and all. Good luck with your GR86 search - they're scarce on the ground at the moment. You might actually have better luck with the BRZ (and finding one without a markup).
@@MVolkJ Hopefully with the Nissan Z and Honda Civic Si coming it would help the GR86 hype die down so I can get one myself MSRP though yeah, I may just be leaning towards the BRZ if that is the case. Edit: also forgot about the GR corolla
@MVolkJ Also had a 13 frs. It blew up 😢 tying to decide between these two. Manual transmission. Are you happy you spent the extra money on the supra??
Man, if you told me in 2010 that Toyota would have a really awesome sports car range by 2022, I'd laugh at you... And yet, we got the GT-86, and then the GR Yaris, the GR-86, the Supra (even with a manual gearbox now), and even a GR Corolla (even the thought of being excited to see a video about a Corolla still sounds kinda absurd... But it looks like an awesome car). I don't know what happened to Toyota, but I hope they keep it up...
@@codeskhr4092 this doesn't really bother me as much as it seems a lot of other people. why fix what isn't broken? They can cut costs way down by using engines that are real world tested good engines.
the GR86/BRZ along with Mazda's Miata have the world beat in the sports car realm. Affordability is a huge characteristic and key aspect of the 'fun to drive' aspect. Even if you have Supra/Nissan Z money, it would be wiser to choose the cheaper, smaller, lighter option anyway.
@@ThatOnedude374 I can afford a Z but I'm going with GR86. The interior of the Z is so ugly and I want a lighter car that is naturally aspirated. Also Nissan is a lame company.
@@ThatOnedude374 even if you have the money to spend, you might want to keep it for something else and get an incredibly enjoyable car. It's not inconceivable to pick a Miata over a 911 GT3 (even if you can easily afford the GT3) given the money savings, and the fact that you're still getting a great car.
The 86/BRZ blows the mk5 Supra out of the water for me in terms of styling, coolness, and personalization. Even if offered either one for free I’d take the 86 over the Supra. The execution is just superior in my eyes
@@E9X330 it's headlights, grille and backend do not look good at all, and are even worse in person. The Supra looks every much the part though in person and looks brilliant with so many people complimenting it. The BM will ultimately blend in as another drab and bland BMW whereas the Supra sticks out and is different.
went to the dealer the other day and theyre marking up gr86 manuals by 5 grand whats the point of toyota making an affordable sports car if by the time you walk out of the dealer youre out 40 grand US
@@falcongamer58 Eh, I can't argue with that. If people would stop buying at ridiculous prices en masse, dealers would have to start pricing more reasonably.
@@tizodd6 i get why dealers do it they have less inventory to sell right now so they are trying to make more money per car. but its just a shame when its supposed to be the affordable model. the gr86 wont be a rare car down the line they will sell tons so paying over feels really silly.
Please do a comparison between the Toyota GR86 against the Ford Fiesta ST! Both world class entry level sport cars, with drastically different approaches!
Good idea. They're about the same price and performance on paper aren't they? I'm low key hoping Ford do a Fiesta RS to be compared with the GR Yaris ....
@@typhoon-7 They are pretty much spot on for price. Performance was is similar, but one with a 1.5L 3cyl turbo, the other with 2.4L Inline 4 NA! Couldn’t be more different on paper, yet they are both equally great cars! Would be an interesting fight.
@@ACommenterOnRU-vid Yes dude we get it, BMW made the car. You're not smart or sharing something nobody knows. Its not clever, its just cringe bc honestly it being a BMW is a good thing. Toyota Interiors are dog ass compared to BMW interiors and the B58 motor is a far better motor than the 2jz ever was. Stay crying
@@Raikolt Not smart huh ?? I'm not the one calling it a Supra am i ?? Did i say it being a BMW was a bad thing ?? NO And you think the B58 is better than the 2JZ that has proven itsef to do 2k hp ??? Has the B58 done 2k hp yet ... NO Listen here kiddo, shut yur mouth and get back to GTA ... B58 better than 2JZ ... 🤣🤣🤣
@@ACommenterOnRU-vid it IS better than a 2j lmfao. What makes you think that those incredibly high hp "2j" motors share even one part in commom with a factory 2j?? Different piston/rod/cam/head designs, different internal materials, different internal manufacturing processes, completely different blocks made of different materials with different bores and sidewall thicknesses, different cooling channel design, etc. Those engines are not even 2jz engines anymore, they're like 50-80k usd fully built motors that were made to loosely resemble the 2jz design but they share absolutely nothing in common with the original motor. And its only like that because theres 30 years of development of these parts under its belt. The 2jz in stock form takes way more money and tuning to make power in comparison to the B58 motor.
You sir are my favourite car reviewer! As a previous gen 1 owner of a highly modified gt86 I haven't been completely sold on the idea that this is worth the money but after watching your review- I want a gr86 😅
I like the overall look of the gr86 but have never been able to get past the narrow wheels or cheap interior. Wasn't wowed by the Toyota (bmw) supra in the beginning but much more exciting in the flesh and rare and different enough to appeal.
Was waiting for the firm yawnful "BMW" comment. It's called platform sharing..... And if it makes manufacturers able to afford to keep building awesome cars then go ahead.
@@jamestonkin8610 Funnily enough I'm well aware of platform sharing and nowhere within my post is a negative comment on this. It is a statement of fact that the car is a Toyota/bmw.
Supra is a man’s car, auto or manual. GR86 is a boy’s car. I am 33 and you would not catch me in the 1st gen 86, the 2nd gen is a bargain sports car though.
Yeaaaaa the original was supposed to be a “GT”/ “touring” car. But the new Supra being based off a z4 chassis, it is exactly the opposite of a gt or touring layout.
@@brentayres12 competition made a shift. Supra was aimed at the Z with both being gt cars at the time. Now the Z is a sportscar so all toyo did was just do the same with the supra.
@@brentayres12 well, people are now saying that the new Z drives like a GT car in the highway, and they also say that GT feeling is way better than the Supra’s.
All these back handed compliments in this review. Essentially all I heard was “it has such and such, which ISNT as good as say such and such, but it’s not bad”
That’s interesting, I’d like to add that when I drove the A90 and A91 Supra it didn’t feel as planted or stable as you’d expect from a $55k sports car. It also felt very artificial.
@@jamesc8600 not just 20k more but also comes with 2 more cylinders, better build quality....and it sounds good with small exhaust upgrades....that machine is awesome...get one if you can
