@@mrcool7358 they can only do 10 mins due to copyright. :( Some reactors get around this by doing some episodes in two parts... I see you. I hear you. However, personally I'd prefer that for those episodes that jam pack all the stories. Ie; s6e10! ;) ;) But either way! Super looking forward to integrating the sweet summer children :p 💛
Thank god Spartan understood that Olenna snapping the pen signified that she accepted Tywin’s terms. It’s astonishing how many reactors think she won that encounter.
@@bradcarver8127 I can only speak on the individuals I've introduced to the show and watched it with, but by my observations, a lot of people have trouble focusing on a lot of dialog, and a lot of people not only need things spelled right out for them, but they like it that way.
I can completely respect Spartan’s LOVE of Tywin Lannister… He’s not a character you would love normally, but he’s so well written and acted, that you can’t help but love to watch him chew the scenery. 👍🏼
I love him as a character... and, more specifically, as a villain. He is unapologetically evil. But he's also very cunning and charismatic, so he almost seduces people into thinking he's not as evil as he seems. He's probably the greatest villain in the GoT universe, and one of the most compelling characters in any story ever.
Charles Dance embodies book Tywin completely for me. He must have cost the show budget so much because of all the scenery he chewed to bits in every scene he was in. 😊 Stephen Dillane as Stannis was the same for me. Well written and performed characters are one of the best things about the show at this point. GRRM’s books are rightly known for their complex characters that are capable of both good and evil. It’s the complex “grey” characters that are the most interesting. Even if you hate their actions, if they are well written, you can still empathise with them and understand their motivations.
@@NovaLena22 Tywin Lannister is not evil. He is Machiavellian, and his acts of extremity are always a response to someone elses incompetence and/or rebellion. Hes shit with his kids though, that cant be denied. Terrible father. Great man. Remember you have to judge a characters actions by the morals of the world the characters inhabit. Not our own world, in that case every character in thrones is evil.
What's interesting is that both Littlefinger and Varys are Machiavellian in parts. Littlefinger focuses on gaining and holding power by any means necessary, while Varys focuses on saving the realm by any means necessary.
Its unbelievably stupid of him and something book Littlefinger would never do in a million years. Littlefinger's whole thing is he is unassuming and gives you a reason to trust him. He would NEVER give Varys that speech of all people
@@ben1ben2ben1 I don't mind it specifically because it's strictly between him and Varys. No one else sees or hears them, and if anything it's been shown that both are more candid, almost playful with each other when it's only them because they don't have to act anymore - they both know for a fact that the other isn't trustworthy and that there is no point in trying to sway them like they normally would anyone else in the series. Plus it's not like Littlefinger says anything damning or hints at his own machinations at all, just mentioning his views on the chaos in the world and basically how there is nothing really to life but the grind. If anything it's nothing people wouldn't already assume of Lord Baelish, being an upjumped nobody from the Fingers with no ties to any noble house or holdings yet having made it as far as he has in the political realm.
Spartan was sharp as a tack the whole episode! Realizing Tywin won the encounter, and got what he wanted with Lady Olenna! (I never understood why people think she won the encounter just because she broke the quill! Breaking the quill meant: "I consent, Please don't sign the papers!") And Sansa realizing she's staying in Kingslanding while watching Littlefinger's ship sailing away! Nice going, Spartan!!!
Honestly i dont thing anyone won. Both got what they wanted. Olenna continue Margaery wedding and Tywin secure Loras with Cersei. it was both win win situation.
@@cassandramcbride7007 Tywin didn't care about Margaery's wedding to Joffery! That was secured already! He wanted Tyrion to Sansa, and Loras to Cercei, which he got, and Olenna was forced to consent to it. The Tyrells wanted Sansa to marry Loras, which Tywin stopped! I know everyone loves Lady Olenna's spunk, but she lost, because she didn't want Loras to marry Cercei, and was forced by Tywin to consent to it! That was the whole point of their discussion!
I was also wondering about that Tywin Olenna thing. I think many people believe Olenna won just because they want to believe it, because most fans are anti-Lannister. Plus they seem to view the breaking of the quill as a show of force, a badass moment from her. And if she has the word in the scene that must mean that she outwitted him somehow...
At the end, Sansa is watching Littlefinger’s ship sail to the Eyrie. He offered to bring her and help her escape the capital, but when she thought she was marrying Loras, she backed out. So now, after hearing that she’s being forced to marry a Lannister instead, she is crying looking out at Littlefinger’s ship, wishing she had gone with him.
@@xXSinForLifeXx What??!! Sansa just wanted to leave KL. That's why she took LF's offer to begin with. Margaery offered her something better... the chance to marry a handsome lord, and to live in a beautiful place like High Garden (where there are no kings or queens). At most, Sansa would have been the Lady of HG... not a queen. Funny enough, Margaery was someone willing to scheme and manipulate, and possibly put herself and her family in danger just to be queen. Do you have any words of criticism for her or Olenna? Or are you simply another Sansa-hater??
@@NovaLena22 Exactly if she took Littlefingers offer she would be free. But instead she's focused on the fairytale of marrying a fancy lord. You are further proving my point that she is way more concerned with fairytales than thinking smart which was the problem since season 1. Margaery and Ollena are different because 1 they are smarter than Sansa and 2 they are all on the same page. Sansa has abandoned her family just to play princess so yes my criticism is fair.
@@xXSinForLifeXx you really think she would be free with Littlefinger knowing damn well what kind of person he is? Chosing between him and Tyrells is the clearest decision ever.
@@didinau Free of kingslanding and the Lannisters? Yes... Ofcourse the Tyrells seem like a nicer option, but like I said it comes back to Sansa being naive and wanting that fairytale. Remeber the Tyrells still wanted to use her to control the North they just are a different breed of manipulating.
"Chaos isn't a pit, CHAOS IS A LADDER. many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again, the fall breaks them. and some they are given a chance to climb but they refuse, they cling to the realm or the Gods or Love, illusions. only the ladder is real the climb is all there is." Lord Baelish
Terrible speech that was completely out of character of him. Little finger would never give fucking Varys that speech out of everyone. He isn't that stupid to reveal himself to one of the smartest people in Westeros
Littlefinger's "Chaos is a ladder" speech is one that is specific to the show and it's one of the things that they did better than the book. The speech is now famous for its portrayal of Littlefinger's mindset in the series. I may not like the things that he does, but I definitely respect Littlefinger as an antagonist. He does terrible things, but he's always one step ahead of everyone else and able to adapt as conditions change.
No lol! The Show never understood Little fingers character. LF would NEVER reveal himself to the smartest man in Westeros, Varys. Book LF would never be that stupid. Book LF is unassuming. He gives you reason to trust him. Show LF is a mustache twirling bad guy who anyone who trusts is an idiot. Little finger in the show is one of the worst adaptations from the book. "The Clime" speech is the perfect example of the show runners not understanding Little finger
@@ben1ben2ben1 and yet it shows what book Littlefinger was likely thinking if we could see inside his head. Would he have actually said that to Varys? No probably not. But the books had other ways to show his viewpoint. Trust me I have plenty of other issues with the way the show did things. This speech isn't one of them.
@@desertrose0027 That is not a good excuse. Its hand holding to the audience and like EVERYTHING the show did with Littlefinger, not subtle at all. Should we just have all the characters acting out of character telling everyone everything because we can't see in their heads? Its a bad excuse. This was one of the early signs of the problems that would follow when they ran out of books. Show Little Finger tried a speech like this on Varys and he would get the Kevan Lannister treatment from him
Generally with reactions I just jump to the good bits I know are coming up, with you two I am actually interested in your theories/opinions/experience with the characters. Keep it real you guys, best of luck in the wars to come!
I like how Spartan the fan of honour is trying to wiggle Rob out of his word..... Yes it was Catelyn who went to see them and negotiate but she was doing so empowered to speak on behalf of Rob. As a leader your diplomats represent you and speak for you in matters related to their responsibility. Not only this but the decision was outlined, negotiated by Catelyn to be as favourable as possible and then brought back to Rob to make the final decision. Upon which he gave his word he would marry her. Ned would turn in his grave if he heard of this talk from you Spartan xD
Listening to their discussions around Rob has been very entertaining, lol. And I agree, it’s very clear, Rob broke his oath to marry one of walders daughters. Lol.
Depends how you define honour. Personally i dont think the vow reflects a characters honour because it is a political manipulation of power plays anyway. how a character carries themselves, comitts to their resolve, defends the weak and vulnerable, those are things I look for in honour. Rob is definitely an honourable man. the vows i suppose depend on how you value them. although i dont deny he broke his word, i dont think it makes him a dishonourable person
@@SpartanandPudgeyDefinitely agree that honour is variable (a long running theme of the show) and it's naturally gonna be hard to live up to someone like Ned who literally died for his honour. It's true that Rob broke his vow and that was a dishonourable act for sure, but a single act of dishonour doesn't mean that person is entirely 'dishonourable'. If that were the case, you could argue that Ned (the guy known across the realm as the man with most honour) was 'dishonourable' because he had a bastard son.
@@SpartanandPudgey I think that's an agreement reached then really. The impression I got was more that you didn't really understand why it was breaking his word. I do definitely agree though that the world is more grey and theres the ability for the honourable to act dishonourably and vice versa. Just look at Jaime and the high king. GoT is famous for having no "good" characters. Only shades of Grey. With even the biggest villains having aspects that redeem them in some way.
You guys are by far, my favorite reactors to this series. Also, there are many clues in the show already to indicate who is keeping Theon captive. If you don't figure it out, that's ok, too. Just wanted to let you know the clues are there.
I didn’t figure it out on my first watch at all until it was made very clear. Upon every rewatch though i can see it super clearly from season 2. This show has so many moving parts and characters that I think it’s unreasonable to expect anybody to pick up on everything their first time through.
@@JBleauOst I can understand some people not picking it up. That's why I said it's ok if they don't. Without any spoilers, there was at least one glaring thing that made me realize who Theon's captor was when he was getting tortured. But I don't want to give anything away because I'm waiting for the genuine reaction when they finally do realize who he is.
It was bad writing. The show never understood Little Finger at all. Book Little Finger is unassuming. Everyone trusts him because he seems so harmless and trustworthy. Show Little Finger is a mustache twirling bad guy who only a complete idiot would ever trust. Little Finger should NEVER reveal himself to fucking Varys of all people.
Robb was certainly not pushed into a corner by his mother when it came to the marriage proposals. He had the option to refuse. You could argue that Walder Frey forced his hand, but certainly not his mom. Catelyn suggested to Robb that she should be his envoy, because she has known Walder Frey since she was a child, and thus was in the best position to negotiate with him, because she understands him better than any Northern lord.
I have listened many broadcasts about this subject and one good counter to Walder Frey's offer I have heard is to demand instant wedding. I can't speak about spoilers at this episode but that would have cornered Frey proper and given less chance to plan things out. If he would demand more time, he would go against his liege lord and given a cause to be replaced. Marrying Talissa was definitelly risky move and one of the most unwisest thing Rob could do in this pickle.
@@RobinNicoagain You suggestion for an early quick wedding is excellent, but that presupposes that Robb and/or Catelyn suspect Walder Frey of being a sneaky snake as S & P would say. And they have no reason to suspect that. They have no reason to expect the absolute worst from Walder Frey. Also, alone Walder Frey is weak army wise. Let's not forget that behind the scene, Lord Bolton is betraying Robb at every turn, and the Starks can't see that coming either. They're not clairvoyant.
I agree. Even though nowadays anyone with more than half a brain knows that there is nothing wrong with that, the middle ages were definitely not an accepting time for homosexual people (paradoxical since the romans and greeks had no problems with it, but like many other societal aspects, it seems that part of sociology regressed during the middle ages). So yeah Oleanna (and overall the Tyrells IMO, with their very diplomatic ways of dealing with issues) is quite ahead of her time.
"Loves" is a strong word. As far, as I noticed, she doesn't give a shit about him. Sure, she protects her family, but her opinion about her son and her grandson is rather low.
@@Rash23215 they liked to think so lol. Also, GRRM based ASOIF around real historical events. He drew alot of inspiration from The War of The Rose's, when the House's of Lancaster and York fought a civil war for the crown if England.
Margaery is related to Alicent Hightower, not a direct descendant but cousins. The Hightowers are sworn to the Tyrells, and so often they would marry each other both being powerful houses. They also do resemble each other quite a bit!
I could watch dozens of scenes with just Tywin and Olenna sparring. Those two constitute the epitome of the writing that made GoT so famous. The Great lion of the Rock and the Lady of Thorns, (their ephitets by which even foreigners know them), they would've made the biggest powercouple in Westerosi history if married.
I mean he didn’t refuse, he accepted but then he fell in love with someone else. He acknowledged his error and basically told his uncle he owes him one.
@@TheSofkujepanen well, if we’re going by the book, he only married Talisa(jeyne) because of honor by not wanting to abandon her after disvirgining her
@@TheSofkujepanen agreed, lol. I don’t get how some ppl are trying to say that Rob didn’t break his oath when it’s heavily pointed out and spelled out in the show, lol.
[keeping within books 1-3 and seasons 1-3] The Ros storyline in the show highlights one of the main points of excellence for ASoIaF in general, which is examining the effect of Kings, Queens and Epic struggles on the common people and society. Esme Bianco is so charismatic they grew the role from a one-off into a three season mini arc. RIP Ros, chaos is a ladder.
Lady Olenna's unofficial title is "The Queen of Thorns", and you just saw a good display as to what earned her that nickname. "He's cutthroat, he's to the point, he's direct, he knows what he wants and how to get it." "What Stannis was initially." So what we really want to say here is that it seems like Spartan has a "type", eh?
@@meladammelen2842yup and I’ve noticed that in a few videos he thinks Dany is too cold and naive while she is the exact description of his favorite characters. Telling her to “take a seat” when telling her advisors not to question her in front of others and in the very same reaction he praised Robb for putting his advisors in their place.
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@@aaronia8092 If I recall correctly, spite was purely an assumption on Tywin's part. Aerys may have just intended to honour Jaime's wish to join, but Tywin didn't know that Jaime wished to join (or was in denial about Jaime truly wanting it) and misinterpreted Aerys's intentions. Tywin is smart, but he can be quite stubborn in his belief that his own opinions are facts, such as his opinion that the Kingsguard is not an honour for someone of Jaime's status.
@@SelvesteSandwell, I’d say a lot of families feel that way considering the emphasis placed on the firstborn son as the heir who will inherit the lands and titles and pass on the family name and legacy (which we know is the most important thing to Tywin, but it wouldn’t be surprising if others, like Olenna, felt the same way since that’s the nature of the world they live in). Seems that most people would think it’s something that should be given to a second or third son, but not the first since the first is suppose to have the duty of carrying on the family name and legacy.
I love the scene of Jon & Ygritte on the top of the wall, caught between their two worlds, kissing. It's almost like their love story - coming from two different worlds and being stuck in the middle. They're both so cute. My fav couple of rhe whole show.
Almost everyone would say that Littlefinger had the best speech in this episode, maybe the whole series, and rightfully so. But the best line of the show, well one of at least, but imo the best, is to Theon and through him to the viewers that "if you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention "
This is the best reaction channel ever. I watch every GoT episode you react to and please keep doing what you're doing you're both very entertaining to watch :)
Please Spartan always make sure she keeps smiling and laughing that made me very emotional thinking of how I wished my mother would be happier and laugh more.
Cat (to Edmure): You’re willing to risk our freedom & our lives for a chance at a prettier wife? Me: Sooo… like Rob did? And Rob (and the Blackfish) criticizing Edmure about his stupid decision, when Rob, how many bad decisions have you made so far?? I like that Rob acknowledges that Edmure is “paying for his sins” but Rob annoyed me heavily in that scene. Also, Rob definitely broke his oath to Walder Frey. Cat went to speak with walder on Robs behalf. Rob needed a favor from Walder, not cat.
Ros betrayed Little Finger despite the warnings she was given and spied on him for Varys. Varys basically used Ros and gave her false promises of security even though he knew how great a risk he was putting her in. Varys isn't even half as honorable as y'all make him out to be, and LF was 100% in the right for selling off the bad investment that betrayed him.
Robb was not "pushed into a corner by his mother" over the Frey deal - Walder Frey did that. Regardless of that, he did agree to it, so it was a stain on his own honour when he reneged on it. Also, while it is true that making Edmure agree to a marriage is hypocritical of King Rob, this is a feudal style society not 21st c. Western society, and kings and heads of Houses routinely told their subjects/offspring who to wed. Arranged marriages were the norm, and Caitlyn Lady Olenna, Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully, Margery Tyrell, Cersei, Ned Stark, Robert Baratheon, Sansa and Arya Stark, Danaerys, Tyrion and who knows who else have all been married or engaged to people that someone else has chosen for them. Edmure, as the Lord of Riverrun, would certainly be expected to enter into a politically advantageous marriage at some point anyway, so he's just being a bit of a dick. Again.
That ending scene was beautiful. With all the chaos, cruelty and cynicism, there is beauty and serenity, especially with the music, romance and scenery.
Theon also killed Sir Rodrick, someone who likely taught him how to swing the sword that killed him. And mistreated all the people in Winterfell who likely, for the most part, accepted him. Now, can you say what ends up happening to him he deserves? Well, I think the big narrative of Game of Thrones, at least the early portions of the show, is people's bad decisions end up really coming back to bite them in the worst way.
I'm just laughing at the discussion about why Jaime fainted in the bath house. Eh, maybe it was because he just had surgery? Lol! I loved how Nikolaj Coster-Waldau delivered the line, "By what right does the wolf judge the lion?". He almost looked and sounded like a wounded lion. Such a great performance.
Sorry Spartan, but Robb made that choice and it wasn't Catelyn's fault. They were Walder Frey's terms. Not hers. She was just the messenger. And don't forget, Arya is supposed to marry a Frey son. She left that decision up to Robb as well. And he accepted all the terms.
It's neat that there were a lot more swords making up the throne when we see it in House of the Dragon...perhaps there were closer to 1000 in those days.
"Theon's little finger" found a whole new sense about that, because you mentioned it in because it followed so closely after you talking about Petyr and Varys, Roz and Joffrey.
Chaos is a ladder, possibly one of my favorite dialogues in the entire tv series. Between the two most intriguing characters. Damn. This is exactly what makes this show perfect.
Loving your discussion, its always nice to hear your thoughts about how you see things in this universe, love listening to your theories and characters storylines, and just as always very fun reaction, looking forward to next one.
"Circumstantial Love" - the new movie coming soon from Netflix. Spartan on the ball today about the subtleties: the snapping of the pen, Joffrey's evil desires, Sansa's tears. Now you need to work out the identity of Theon's torturer. All the clues have been placed on the table. Great reaction as always.
I don't think the Hound was guilty of Murder that's why the trial found him innocent. He was given a lawful order by his King, he is the kings Sworn Sword and the King told him the butchers boy attacked him. Not the Hounds fault the king is a lying liar lol. If there is a crime it is Geoffrey's.
Littlefinger's iconic speech, backed by that awesome soundtrack, is the best writing Benioff & Weiss ever did without George RR Martin. Truly heartpounding.
I’ve gotta say you both have a great understanding of people and the show you’re reacting to. Your analysis is always very comprehensive and entertaining. Love what you’re both doing!
Omg I am in love with you guys and your relationship! It’s so beautiful to watch and gives me hope. Your reactions are fun and thorough and I literally could listen to Pudgey giggle and laugh all day haha….
@@MMAisTHEbestSPORT08 don't get me wrong - acting is impeccable, storytelling - topnotch. I looove those aspects even in the "bad" scenes. But in general as a character in his essence as a person I don't approve and like his actions even if it is Oscar-winning performance. I distinguish the two. There is no way I would love a character knowing what I know he has done. Period. The good does not erase the bad. There are a lot of grey characters, which comes when mixing their "white" and "black" traits. For me Tywin's blacks are too much to make him a "gray" character. Just my opinion.
Olenna is a queen, she's legit one of the baddest women in westeros at that time. Love her so much!! Can't wait to see if she makes it on either of your love lists at some point
spartan is shining now picking up in everything Tywin absolutely laid down his authority in that reaction. Olena knew she was dealing with a serious political operator who absolutely keeps his word. She didn't have any choice but to concede that battle. and spot on about little finger... he basically told geoffry that he had a girl that he needed to dispose of (because she betrayed him) and of course the sicko jumped at the chance to kill someone for sport. pudgey "he's got a limit" .... have to hold an L on that 1 miss lol and even the varys little finger thing spartan is spot on... its like snakes and ladders. varys tries to avoid snakes (pits) and chugs along steadily while little finger looks for shortcuts (ladders) the fastest way to the top. there's still so much to go and so many turns u won't see ... although pudgey sometimes pulls these predictions out of the fire 👍
I stumbled across you guys about 2 weeks ago & I’ve been loving all of your GOT reactions, insights & fun banter between the two of you so far. Spartan made a really awesome comment during the intro when he said how good he & Pudgey are at extrapolating the good within huge gray areas for characters. I feel the same & am always trying to find the positive or the learning lessons in less than ideal situations. I think in there lies strength - that when others (esp people in power) can step back & give an honest assessment of a current situation to make a decision for the good of all the people. Keep up the great work! I can’t wait to watch more!
Think back to when after the baby was killed in the brothel. Afterward, Roz was crying, and telling LF that she couldn't sleep. LF told a story her about one his expensive girls in the past wasn't making him any money, and what he did to her to make up for it. He sold her to a client who like to do horrible things to women. In Roz's case, he sold her to Jeoffrey, to be the first person he killed (himself).
Lady Olenna is an absolute badass, and if you look at a photo of the actress, Diana Rigg, when she was younger alongside a photo of the actress who plays Margaery, they look like they could really have been grandmother and granddaughter. The resemblance is amazing.
Agreed. And I’ve seen a few comments of people trying to say that Rob didn’t really break an oath…I’m like, umm, yes, he did. Lol. I like Rob, but the fact is, he broke his oath.
I believe anytime someone says there is nothing on the other side is because maybe as adults it’s harder for us to recall things from there. Though when it’s young kids because there hearts are still so pure it helps them remember things!!? Just my thoughts!!!
there are a couple of hints as to who the person that is torturing theon is, and once u know who it is u can't unsee it lol. so now when i watch reactions i wonder if anyone will get it before it's revealed (i know i didn't when i first watched btw.)
Your selection of Tywin should not be controversial. He is one of the absolute best characters in the series. One of the only cases of a character being better in the show than the books.
44:03 I don't think Baelish needed to tell Joffrey any such thing. All he needed was offer her to Joffrey, and tell him that he could do what he wanted to (In another way, probably, because saying that would make Joffrey prideful and angry), and Joffrey would do the rest
cercei didnt go through nothing... she sat through a siege where she thought she was going to die and literally was about to kill her son. She lost her lover who became a prisoner for years. She lost her daughter who was shipped off to a foreign country to marry into a family she doesnt trust. She cant control her son. And she's forced by her dad to remarry
Cersei was a terrible person through and through. She had one redeeming quality and that was the love for her children BUT even that changed bc she wasn’t even affected when Tomin committed suicide bec of her doings! She is just awful 😞
I think Jaime just passed out cus of the mix of his physical condition, probably dehydration too, and then the heat. Probably made it hard to breathe efficiently so he started to black out. And then if you add a couple drinks on top of that, that’ll prob do the job.
