The real story is less film-worthy, but no less amazing: When they realized the CO2 filter would need replacing, they called up one of the engineers and he designed it in his head driving to work that morning.
The movie also makes it seem like they just started working on it when the CO2 filters in the LM started to fail, when of course they knew it was going to be a problem as soon as they made the decision to use the LM as a lifeboat and do a free return trajectory. One guy in the movie even says "no! The LEM will not support 3 guys for that long!" when they're first discussing it, but then the movie apparently forgets about him.
@@kavian9620 The article you link says nothing about having already come up with the procedure for retrofitting the canisters. Only the idea of using the LM as a lifeboat had been simulated before. Ed Smylie and company did indeed devise this procedure on the fly, but they all worked together on it; he didn't think of it all on his own on the drive to work that morning. The movie is far closer to reality than what you are implying.
@@jebbroham1776 And he was an asshole...kinda like a certain President was...but...they both could get shit done...and we weren't always accusing Patton of illegal activities...
I dont think people give Ron Howard enough credit for how amazing this film was in 1995. To shoot a movie in one of those Zero-G planes was considered insane at the time. But he knew that without it, the film wouldn't work.
Once I read a book written by a driver who won European rally championship 6 times, and was famous for winning rallies that had a lot of fatal accidents. He wrote exactly that: 'I continue a rally without tools, but I must have a duct tape'. - And this was said by a guy who did endurance rallies. During London-Sydney rally he even threw out tools and canisters before the leg through Australia, just to make car lighter.
Correct me if I'm wrong because I was never truly sure. Did they respond that was because they didn't land on the moon therefore that "flightplan" was like a constant sad reminder of no moon?
I'm not sure myself, but if I had to guess, those guys had been reviewing that flight plan for weeks, probably months, until it was burned into their eyeballs. I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to rip it up after that!
Fun fact: During the filming of Star Trek, they needed salt & pepper shakers for a scene. They tried designing a futuristic salt shaker, but every design looked cheesy and fake. So, they borrowed salt & pepper shakers from the studio cafeteria. The point being, some things are so perfect for their function, they can't be improved.
While I really love this scene, where they portray the absolute genius of human creativity, this was actually ten times more badass in real life, where ONE GUY thought up the jury-rigged filters as he was driving to work!
What a load of biased bulls**t. You write that kind of crap, then we find out that the major, *non-government* chip manufacturers have made a built-in, stupid design flaw in the majority of computer CPU chips?? Industry pollutes the environment. Companies have massive data breaches. An air bag producer makes accidental bombs instead... Tell me this isn't a corporate greed problem.
+ JCA liberty82: How uninformed are you?? Takata might not save you in an auto crash. It might kill you instead. (And may kill or maim you in an otherwise non-fatal crash). How is that a problem of "government"? Have you looked at any parking lots in the USA or, as an example, the Anacostia river? Those are areas that were shit on and completely defiled by polluting products of companies bent only on their own bottom line. In comes the EPA (your bogey-man "bad government," ) and the problems are now receding, being corrected. You may be too young to remember, but it was obvious in parking lots wether cars parked mostly head in or head out because of the oil stains left after every single rain. You could sit it traffic and see the smog over the highway caused by car exhaust. None of that was corrected based on some magical thinking by car companies acting nicely. It was corrected by the EPA passing rules against pollution. The current administration is an enemy of the people in that regard. And, the Government (by and of the people) DID save us in regard to those problems. They were *not* fixed by the car companies by their own good graces. They are not fixed forever, but have been much improved by Government regulation. Private corporations are not going to save us, buddy.
There is an easy option to this kind of (mostly) specious argument: Do not *require* that the bulk of government purchases be made on the basis of "lowest cost." While, "lowest cost," does not always mean, "lowest value," it can. It often is the opposite of "best value." Often, "lowest cost," means, "minimal or not-quite," matching of the purchase requirements.The barriers to demonstrating that a higher-cost option is in the interest of value to purchases of the US government can be quite high. The restrictions on private companies on procurements are dictated by those companies. The restriction on U.S. government procurements are dictated by people like Heljumper91. They are antithetical to the U.S. government being able to make rational purchase decisions. There is a definite cross-over point at which the work required to make the argument that the purchase you would like to make is in the best interest of the government runs up against bureaucracy imposed by those people who think like Heljumper91. The problem is that this probably costs the U.S. government money in the end-result analysis. Let the government purchase what it needs, and punish those who abuse the system. But the hand-wringing claims of "big government" problems or "government bureaucracy" are made most by the people that cause the problems by trying to over-litigate and over-constrain the processes. No organization that has a budget wants to waste that budget. They look for ways to save. When they are *required* to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to document that they are trying to save, that is a problem.
As a teacher of science, I use this scene to explain "procedures" and how important it is to maintain accuracy. Had the procedure been poorly written, with minor details left out, the filter does not get constructed correctly. It's one of those "not fun" parts of science, but oh, so important!
This is exactly why I wish people would always put stuff in writing and without assuming stuff (and thus leaving it out). Something as simple as 'add water' -- fcking when? Where? How much? Does temperature matter? What about water purity (distilled required, as like for baby formula)? -- because sh*t goes wrong when people aren't clear because they couldn't be bothered to note the details.
There's an episode of the MASH TV show where they're disarming a bomb. (IIRC) they had received instructions on how to do it, and as they were disarming it: "Cut The Red Wire" (they do so) flip a page and they get told: "After cutting the Green Wire." Fortunately two things saved them, a slight time delay and the fact it was a Leaflet dispenser and not a bomb filled with High Explosives!
I had to write down instructions on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in school. It was frustrating but fun and shows how important proper procedures are even if they seem mundane and obvious.
Not true.. As assumptions get people in trouble. Fact was NASA had foreseen using the LEM as a rescue boat. And all Astronauts were taught what to take with them. Including Duct Tape and Plastic bags. They did include an adapter for future missions. That allowed the filters to be used in both the LEM and Command Module. As they would need a full redesign of both to take the same cartridges. But the LEM and Command Modules had already been built for the next 3 Missions. The others was too far along to change anything..
My wife keeps saying this entire thing (space travel) is the most insane thing we have ever tried to do. I get where she is coming from, but to me, the most insane thing was when somebody just pointed their boat in the direction nobody has ever gone before and took off. I don't even mean Columbus and the explorers in well provisioned craft with multiple sails, I mean the canoe people. They just took off across the damn Pacific Ocean in a damn canoe. "Where you going, Dave?" "I'm just going that way until I find something or die I guess. As long as I don't have to deal with YOU anymore." Apollo astronauts had a mission, a purpose. Dave just loaded up on beer and rowed away until he hit Easter Island.
Spoken like woman do. They never see the bigger picture because their brains aren't wired they same way. This is coming from me who still believes men are the reason for biggest screwups in the world. Cheers to all the awesome female astronauts.
The "canoe people" were called Polynesians and they most certainly knew what they were doing, the knowledge was just accumulated. They knew what to look out for and settled all over the Pacific with human ingenuity
@@doransshield9176 One thing that they would do is sail into the wind as much as possible if they were going exploring, so that it would be really easy to turn around and head home.
Can you imagine Trump under the same press conference. "That's not what I said. You are fake news and a third rate reporter. You should be ashamed of yourself for even saying such a thing, lying to the American people. What a nasty person and a nasty question."
Them : succesfully tore tape LENGTHWISE without it sticking to their hands Me: THAT is litterally the proudest moment of mandkind! Also them: What do we do if we tore the bag? Me: 🤦🏼♀️
I'm a engineering student and I absolutely adore these parts of the film; they show exactly why engineers are so important to these Monumental events despite not even being seen themselves 😏
I'm a design and technology teacher in UK, and I use this scene as a learning resource for many things: problem solving abilities, recycling and up-cycling, communication of ideas, working to a design brief and specification and testing....
I did something similar, back in the late 1980's, when GCSE Design and Realisation was practically a brand new thing, c. 1988 ... I wasn't invited, but a group of kids in my year built a hull of one of those one/two man hovercraft using laminated birch plywood ... later iterations, after my time, was in fiberglass, and resin, which had to be cured outside, but knowing the classmates involved in building the original wooden one was something special ... God, does that make me feel old ...
As someone whose father was an engineer, I can say that at no point will a superior hand a task to a team of professional engineers and be met with the immediate reply of "Well that's impossible." At least, not on a government/NASA level. Exponentially so if lives are hinging on success.
@@marcosrodriguez830 not back then it wasn't. Only reason private companies have the best engineers these days is due to the pay. Back in the early days of NASA, some of the best engineers worked for them, because they were doing stuff no other company was doing. Now, I'm not saying all great engineers worked at NASA. They worked all over. Rocketdyne, JPL, Grumman, Lockheed, North American Aviation, and the list goes on. But if you wanted to be at the cutting edge in this time in history, working for NASA, or any of its contractors was the place to be. These days, there's so many more companies that pay more, engineers go there.
Well as someone whose neighbour's cousin knew someone who owned a dog that happened to belong to an engineer, I can say that at no point some things would be possible no matter what.
Anyone can make repairs with correct parts. Real talent is revealed in the ability to improvise. In the skilled trades office of a major auto manufacturer I spent thirty years working for, there was a sign on the wall that read, "We do what we can with what we have, until we get what we need." This scene shows that spirit.
They really did an impressive job acting and simulating the stress everyone was feeling. That guy carrying the improved filter looked like he was about to pass out.
This is awesome, but another one of my favorite scenes, and I cant remember when, is Gary Sinese's character, and he's in the simulator getting whatever to work and he's been at it for like 30 hours. One of them say to him "Its been over 30 hours, you should take a break, rest, and come back to it" And Gary's character says "No," and he turns to head back into the simulator to continue testing "Why not?" they ask. "Because they arent taking a break" So powerful dedication and empathy. They aint sleeping so neither am I until I get them back.
Yep, no pricey CGI effects......the REAL stuff! Truth be told, Tom Hanks, Bill Paxton, and Kevin Bacon spent more time in weightlessness than BOTH the Virgin Galactic AND the Blue Origin crews COMBINED!!!
@@HalNordmann Amen to that ... Personally, if I was President, and was given a report by the Office of Inspectors General, especially one for DoD Oversight, confirming the $2.1 something _Trillion_ unaccounted spending, aside from insisting both the Secretary for Defnce, and Chair of the Joint start paying it back, with 20% interest, ⅓ of that goes directly to NASA, especially to fund a lander mission on Venus, as well as finding a way to push the Hubble Space Telescope into an L2 orbit ... ... but, above all, a mission to Europa, that would consit of the largest ever orbiter/lander in history, especially as the lander will have to carry a pretty big probe that will have to drill, and melt, its way through the ice, with only a cable behind it ... Once the probe hits liquid water, the channel it had dug for itself would need to be frozen, to prevent contamination. Inside would be a ROV, that, using intuitive software - though not true AI - to use cameras from near UV-Vis-near IR, to record as much as possible, using a long trailing antenna behind it, at ULF/ELF frequencies, to transmit back to the probe, and the probe using the cable to transmit data back up to the lander. There are deep ice lakes in Antarctic, notably Lake Vostok, that have been shut off from the outside world for millennia; in utter darkness, life would've found a way, using the energy from the planet, rather than the Sun. Exactly what that life would look like is the reason for mounting such a mission, as truly alien life may more than likely exist as simple multicellular organisms, with anything more complex being well beyond our imagination, nor what we can even _ever,_ imagine ...
"Tell me this isn't a government operation." -Referencing using two completely different sized and shaped filters Probably the most accurate statement in all of cinema history.
imagine being given a job like Fit This Into the Hole for This using Nothing but that... what would you do make it happen or be like are you kidding me?
The LM was designed and manufactured by Grumman and the CSM was designed and manufactured by North American Rockwell. The discipline and science we now refer to as Systems Engineering did not yet exist in its pure form which was one of the chief causes of the accident in the first place. As for the LiOH scrubbers, apparently no one considered the possibility of needing them to be the same size and shape between the two spacecraft thus making them interchangeable. I work with systems engineers all the time as a software engineer and project manager and part of their job is to ensure we think "outside the box" and come up with use cases that are well beyond standard operating procedures. They are required to understand the entire system from a high level and are required to understand how each component interfaces with every other component. They perform an important role in determining every single possible thing that could go wrong and coming up with procedures and workarounds to deal with each problem. One of the shining jewels of Apollo 13 was the LM Descent Propulsion System (DPS - referred to verbally as "DIPS"). That engine as well as the LM structure was never designed to fly by firing the engine with the CSM attached. But the engineers determined that there was a good chance it would work. The engine also had to fire three separate times in space with cold soaking in between - something the DPS and the rest of the LM was never designed nor intended to do. But due to exceptional engineering and design, the LM did was was *needed*. Finally, if the explosion had occurred *after* the landing on the moon with the LM already jettisoned, the crew would have died in space long before completing the return to Earth.
@@volleyballjerrythey didn't change the cartridges after this. If something went wrong, the procedure was just to rebuild that contraption. When I was young I was flabbergasted but it makes business and money saving sense as the contracted companies would have to recalibrate machines and NASA would be stuck with a lot of excess LEMs and Command Modules. It's still silly but unfortunately, that's business and government.
Honestly it does make sense. The LM was designed by Grumman, and the Command Module was designed by North American. Right now in North America, Tesla has its own charge port, And others have different ones.
Damn good movie. I love the emphasis on how much of a group/team effort goes into the space missions. Not only the Rockstar astronauts. They are the face of thousands of experts and the leading edge of innovation. Translates to the Martian movie as well but this is the best way I've seen the relationship portrayed.
Honestly this is exactly what happened with the soccer team that got trapped in the caves. Divers had to figure out a way to get a bunch of kids with no diving experience through a basically impossible route. Human beings are amazing when they come together and solve problems in that way.
Moral of the story: In NASA, leave it up to the engineers to be creative when lives are on the line, and always bring duct tape You're never know when you need it!
I live a few miles from an old, closed down base called the Naval Air Development Center, Johnsville, which later became the Naval Air Warfare Center Warminster. Well, this place possessed the world’s largest human centrifuge, capable of spinning a man to at least 16g, and was used for astronaut training. Whenever I drive by it, I think of all the really famous (and not-so famous astronauts) that spent time there in the 1960’s. The great news is that a museum is being built that will even house the gondola of the human centrifuge used by Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Alan Shepard, Jim Lovell, etc. It really makes me proud. Go Naval Aviation!!!
Yes, IT WAS FACTUALLY; NASA returned and won with their Hovercraft patent back, I have that recorded. Along with STORM footage on SUPER8 ; ( bludgeon, and blodget) are same root word, no matter its capillaries. AUDIT and ICD9 coding experience.
Theres a really good show though Ive only ever seen a few episodes called " ROCKET CITY RED NECKS " group of friends do a project build over the weekend . Ones a nasa engineer his father was a machinest on the Apollo's and so on . In one episode They built a suit of powered armour in three days with $500 worth of scrap from a junk yard and it was bullet proof for small arms
Believe it or not: this scene inspired the tv show "Junkyard Wars" "Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." George S. Patton
I just finished up For all Mankind, really spurned my interest in the space program and our history. I really have to rewatch this movie I saw it as a kid. Love these types of movies really connects the younger gen (me) to actual people who saw this event live like my grandparents. USA
I really like how he simplied the problem. Best scene in the movie imo. Everyone understands the problem plainly and simply and now let's get to work. Ingenuity will take over from there. Awesome.
Crazy to think that more time has passed since this movie was released until today in 2022 than there was between when the original Apollo 13 mission occurred and this movie.
It's important that everyone realize the reason this happened was because initially there wasn't supposed to be a LM. Back when it was assumed Direct Ascent would be the method for landing on the moon, North American Aviation designed what became the Command and Service modules, which included the sub-contracts to design/build the CO2 filtration system. When Lunar Orbit Rendezvous was decided upon, Grumman won the Lunar Module contract. They subcontracted their CO2 filtration system to fit their unique needs (especially in regards to weight requirements), leading to a situation where the two systems were not interchangeable.
One of the most powerful scenes of one of the greatest movies of all time. This entire mission proved that if you have a goal, and a strong team behind you, you WILL accomplish it. The Tiger team made a promise to bring those men home, and through their strong and selfless efforts, the crew of Apollo 13 survived. This is my favorite movie of all time for a reason.
Apollo 13 is one of the most impressive things humanity has ever done. Going to the Moon is impressive, but bringing three men back when all goes wrong is miraculous.
So I know this isn't actually what happens, but this actually a really good scene of what happens in engineering when you get into a pinch. Only just realised this after watching this again after being an aircraft engineering apprentice for a year, and I feel the dudes in this scene, especially when the bag rips lol 😂
Bullshit. Try cracking open a history book, and read about the Panama Canal. Two private companies tried to build it, and failed miserably. Then the U.S. government took over the project. A few years later the canal was successfully completed, ahead of schedule and under budget. It was the most expensive engineering project in history at the time, but it quickly revolutionized ocean shipping and repaid its cost many times over. And incidentally, it helped the U.S. win the War in the Pacific (another pretty successful "government operation" you may have heard about), by allowing our navy to quickly transfer ships from the Atlantic to the Pacific fleet. Oh, and by the way, in the process of building the canal, U.S. government doctors also learned how to prevent malaria, ultimately saving millions of lives worldwide. Of course, all this happened before cowards and naysayers like yourself began to spread the insidious lie that "governments can't do anything right." Now it has become a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you convince yourself you can't do it, naturally you won't be able to. But if you actually paid attention to what happens in the movie, you would have noticed that "even" government employees can accomplish a hell of a lot if they don't start by assuming they can't. And in case you didn't notice, the entire U.S. space program was a "government operation' -- and it was pretty successful overall, in case you haven't heard. The line in the movie to which you refer is just a cheap joke. I seriously doubt that anyone at mission control said such a thing; and if they did, they would obviously have been saying it ironically, since they themselves were employed on a VERY successful government operation. But then, they weren't burdened by having the mindset of losers like yourself. Everything I have just stated is a well documented fact, so please don't bother to respond with childish insults. If you disagree, prove I'm wrong. You won't be able to.
The real story of Apollo 13 isn't about incredible improvisation. It's about incredible preparation. They were prepared for nearly every emergency that occurred during the flight, including the CO2 problem, long before Apollo 13 left the launchpad.
"Tell me this isn't a government operation." Well, the LEM was designed and built by Grumman, the command module by another company, and interchangeable CO2 scrubber cartridges probably wasn't part of their designs.
Once upon a time. A friends dad and I made a round hose, fit a square filter. He is dead now bless him. You can do the same with the right mental attitude and a little know how.
I know the bulk of these comments were made years ago, but I can't abide ignorance. 1. The different filters for the CM and LM were the result of design limitations for each vessel. The limiting factor for the CM was space, the LM, weight. You get more equipment in a small space with squares and rectangles than circles. Stack pipes similarly and see the wasted space. Thus the square filters for the CM. The LM's CO2 system wasn't just for filtering cabin air, there was a recirc system that the astronauts had to plug into after the final EVA so they could ditch the PLSS units and everything else they weren't taking with them. The piping was round and influenced the shape of the filters. You can look up why round is better for weight, I don't have time to explain it. 2. The environmental people knew this for years and already had workarounds in place. One thing they left out in the movie was the use of the PLSS backpacks (not worn) while switching back to the CM.
"if anything else goes wrong, they'll be in real trouble". Well let's see, hurtling thru space at insane speeds, in a little thin tin can, that just blew up, with no computer or power on, and CO2 filling the cabin. Yeah I'd say they are already in "real trouble".
according to the engineers spoken too, the co2 scrubber was already invented back at or before apollo 8 so they simply radioed up the instructions. Even the spare power backflow from the LM to the CM/SM was via a cable that was one way only- to the LM to power it up.. But apparently they thought of a way to reverse flow it and thats how they got power enough to power up the CM even thought it was very wet. That part of the film was correct- not knowing if shorts ect would occur. Except for a burn from the moon to the Earth, the men just sat there getting colder and no film was ever made as if you follow the real story exactly then you dont have much of a film. Even the astronaut "advisers" argued apparently as to what was real in the film. Commander Dave Scott form 15 was helping. Great exciting film but like the "ramps" for the pyramids, not everything is down to earth and what actually happened. Lovell was saying that after the explosion there was just some thruster firing to stabilise the craft then silence. And slow leak out of 2nd tank, then they move to the LM and got it started with emergency checklist. All they had was a radio, fan, and not much else and sat there around the back of the moon then did difficult de orbit burn with the LM's engine and then sat there for another few days till the reentry phase where they moved some power over, turned on the wet CM and did a shallow long entry and finally appear safe back in contact after 4 mins or so.
@@luciusvorenus9445 Yes 9 flew with the LM in earth orbit testing it out after 8 flew "light" to the moon ans was regarded as one of the best smoothest flights problem wise with lovel in crew. They orbited a dozen times and read the lord prayer for christmas and came home. Lovel then when on to command 13 and was the only man to go to the moon twice and not land from memory. The LM, everyone seems to find ugly ect but i think its perfect for its job being out on deep space not all sleek which is not needed and heavy. It worked very well on the 6 missions and the critical accent engine worked perfectly 6 times to launch off the surface. However deep into the design stage , the motor was failing reliability tests and diff design was built and it worked 6 times! so that is good.. Interestingly its the only engine that couldnt be tested before flight because the propellants are so corrosive as well as poisonous that introducing them into the engine to test it would have ruined the engine for the real flight. SO it had to work when it was used 240,000 miles on the surface away from any possible help. The engine also had no electrical system and only a fixed thrust calculated perfected based on the weight when they leave the moon with a load of rocks and dust but lot of stuff thrown out the airlock. 10 was a risk as it descended to within 50,000 feet of the surface to simulate a landing which 11 would eventually do. Problem was that theres only so many rockets and windows to launch to the moon and 11 and 12 was it if 11 failed in order to get under the wire for end of "decade" as Kennedy promised. They had Cernan (17 and top guy) in 10 and probably should have just keep descended and landed to get that out of the way then 11 could have followed up with a much longer landing. This would have loaded the odds to them a bit more but they wanted to do it ll in little steps, very expensive steps!!!
Late reply, but if you're referring to the guy in the green shirt, it's neither Dave Scott nor Pete Conrad. A little background: The CAPCOM's (capsule communicators) were the flight controllers in charge of passing information back and forth between mission control and the spacecraft. NASA decided it was better for the astronauts to have just one person (per team, of course) pass information to them from mission control so that flight controllers wouldn't be talking over each other, and so the astronauts wouldn't have to guess who was talking all the time. NASA opted to have fellow astronauts work as CAPCOM's because they felt that astronauts would have a better grasp of whatever situation came up and would be able to communicate with the in-flight astronauts more clearly than engineers. And since the astronaut corps was a very tight-knit group, they felt it was better for the astronauts to be speaking with someone they knew well. The astronauts who served as CAPCOM's for Apollo 13 were Joe Kerwin, Jack Lousma, Vance Brand, John Young and Ken Mattingly. IMDB doesn't identify the CAPCOM's by name in the cast (except for Mattingly), but I believe the CAPCOM in the green shirt is supposed to be Jack Lousma.
