Fixed Angle vs Freehand Sharpened Knife - Which Cuts Longer!? 

I would say those are great results Pete especially for someone that hasn't been taking freehand super seriously for as long as you have fixed

Did you measure edge angle close to the apex? You should try that, and if its higher than intended, just sharpen lower to begin with when freehanding. If you then get the intended angle, you can see how long it really lasts. One wont ever get a perfect V edge when freehanding, thats why you should adapt in a logical way like just starting lower, instead of having unrealistic goals of having to get "better". 😊

Larrin says your cut test results are meaningful and that there is real data there,I believe him,and I believe in you Pete.your only getting better at freehand,and I believe you are 3/4 of the the way there!

I think the stones and grits could have played a part also. It would be interesting to do the test again but use the worksharp benchstone with the 320,600, and ceramic. Theyre the same stones that are used on the worksharp precision adjust. They are even replacable with the precision adjust stones. So you could do the same 3 on the precision adjust and same 3 on the benchstone and see exactly how much the results are influenced by your hand.

I have never been more happy to have the 10-second skip feature on mobile than at the beginning of this video

*Pete putting two wildly different edges on the same knife and getting different results* (shocker) Also Pete: "I am the problem" For real tho. While the convexity matters, you put two very different edges on the same knife and there are only few steels that actually perform the same with different edges. I would bet, even if your free hand edge was perfect, the edge mostly sharpened by diamonds and finished way coarser with more deep scratches remaining, would still perform better.

Straight bevel verses convex bevel. Even the steadiest free handers in the proffession still produce a convex edge compared to a guided system. Both have the pros and cons. Thanks Pete!

We are LOVING these videos, Pete! Actual real life content- refreshing!!!!!🎉😊

For 'maintenance' type sharpening I start on either my #800 or #1000. The scratches are just too deep with sub 500 stones and it takes much more work to get rid of them. Re-profiling or removing a chip or snapped off tip sure the lower grits are great. But they IME are more repair/re-profile stones. Love your embracing the hand sharpening, there is a learning curve for sure but it's worth it. Once your are 6/10 or above you won't have a need for the jigs type sharpeners anymore. We just need to get U one of the Japanese male version of kimono with the waist band and you'll look the part. Love the mega close edge shots, I'm not sure If want my edges scrutinized by that lense 😂 Edit: Your going great on your freehand sharpening journey 750 is great score compared to fixed angle jig 950, it really is. This is where I started great video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Yk3IcKUtp8U.htmlsi=DCOC6TxLKDyogLkh

Your edge retention videos are what caught my attention some 3 or 4 years ago? I can’t remember, I’m getting old.. But Comparing the different types of steels, it really brought into perspective how well each of them held an edge, and ultimately determined what I would spend my money on. I believe your edge retention test is where I got the most value from your videos. But this was an EXCELLENT representation of what I’m most likely getting when I freehand vs when I use my fixed angle sharpener. My freehand jobs are most likely worse than yours though... Even if my freehand looks and feels sharp straight off the stone, it most likely isn’t as good as the fixed... But none the less, the value and entertainment that comes from your videos is second to none! Thanks so much for posting!

Great video as always. Appreciate you sharing. I think you did an excellent job with the freehand sharpening. I am also learning how to sharpen freehand. Sometimes I am more successful than others,but i keep it.

Watching your videos has inspired me to buy three stones and try free hand sharpening. Wish me luck lol

No Pete, no, I did not like listening to that ASMR. lol :D ps. Nice hair

Maybe you could have used the same stones free hand? It could be that the diamonds are leaving a more toothy edge than the ceramics?

first thought i had was swap the knives around now and do the same test...

Thank you. Great comparison of fixed VS freehand. Could you share images of edges after they fail your cut test? Very curious about what they look like compared to sharpened and polished edges. Thank you again.

Enough of the bench stones. Unsub.

Thing with the board, is that it doesn't really matter because its just part of the experiment for your testing. In that way its universal to all your results because there's no unfairness to the other knives and different steels because they're all subjected to the same conditions, material and process.

The mad man made a video with this title after all these years. Youve trained your whole life in the outback with small dinosaurs. Be ready if actors sent by big sharpening come for you.

Can you tell by eye if the bevels were similar geometry? Was your freehand pretty close to 17 degrees? Couple degrees difference could affect the results as well as the convexing.

So, I have followed your sharpening seris and have found it interesting. In then end (not for videos) but for your own use- which system is your go to for your own everyday use?

Loving the content push your on. You been busy lately. Keep it up.. the knife community appreciates you more than you know.

Hello Satan, my old friend.

Wonder if you did a full progression on diamond bench stones on maxamet? Perhaps its the abrasives themselves causing the lower numbers. Otherwise the result would usually be lower against a guided sharpener regardless of abrasives.

I love that you're a metal head who is also a metal head. Love the content! I'm just starting my knife journey. First quality knife I ordered was a spyderco manix 2 in S110v!

4:00 you called it the KME 😅 Edit: And you caught yourself moments later

hi, I tried a lot of freehand sharpening but i was not able to holed the angle. I bought Kuromaku stones and now what. i will sell them because freehand sharpening sucks? NO i found a solution for myself and I'm max happy the answer for me was Hapstone T1. Yes it needs a little time to set up but result is amazing. It works perfectly for me.

I think i letters in your 1000grit magnification, sublimimal messages ?

THANKS PETE!!! This is the comparison I have been asking you and Alex (OUTDOORS55) for. Based on these results, and the fact that my hand sharpening makes you look like a rock star, I am going to stick with my KME. If it ain't broke, don't change it holds true FOR ME. Regarding "laminating"...I believe the term you meant is "burnishing". Burnishing is moving metal without actually removing metal. That 5000 glass burnishes the metal over those deep scratches to hide them. THANKS for making this video, Pete!!!

"... your humanness... ". I think I heard Bricky snicker in the background!

My theorycrafting is that fixed angle sharpening is best for repairing/reprofiling through 1200 grit (down to 15µ), but as I still get better performance following this with stropping with diamond emulsions at 6 and 1µ, I suspect some microconvexing at the cutting edge and the angle between primary and secondary bevels is offering a benefit. I've been tempted (prior to Pete's freehand series) to pick up some Shapton Glass stones at 2/4/8k (10/5/3µ) to see if a combination of fixed angle and freehand can offer better results. Alas, the very sexy looking Hapstone RS + Edge Pro matrix stones (which go up to 4k/5µ) is competing for that discretionary spending. And by the way, if you see your mom this weekend, would you be sure and tell her; "Satan! Satan! Satan!" ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-akhuHYih8Mo.html

IF -- I am putting an edge on a power planer, or a lawn mower, I want one edge -- the same -- all the way across the cutting surface. A tool or a guide can be advantageous in this and similar situations. WHEN -- I keen up my straight razor(s), or any of my knives (OMG -- 16" commercial kitchen knives down to 2" Bird-Beak paring knives, an axe or hatchet, an Ontario machete, various choppers, a silly number of fixed blades, and a less silly(?) number of folders ---- I only free-hand, with a variety of abrasives and sharpening doo-dads from an el-cheepo chinesium diamond file (60-grit) down to green rouge on leather or hardwood for coarse stropping. It's hard to say with certainty but I guess that since 1968 I have spent about 75% on blades and 25% on sharpening devices -- only one of which was a guided roller for making chisels and planes easier to sharpen -- I tossed it after a year. I sharpen my 22" Stanley plane, lesser planes, and all my chisels by hand... (NEVER USE OIL of any type) ...because I can feel the edges -- because when I use any knife it is NOT to one purpose, because the hand that wields that blade is the best guide for sharpening that blade, because no ideal guide matches every kind of wood cut by a chainsaw, because -- in the field -- who wants to carry a 5# -- 2kilo sharpener? None of which has anything to do with why I keep watching you discuss knives and life -- Keep it up & carry on!

It would be pretty cool if you did some rust testing on the coated or DLC knives. Specifically spyderco black blades

i know im just a Spyderco bro but literally 70% of their Mule-steels end up becoming sprint-run/industry staples in the future. You can currently purchase their folding knives in 25-30 steel comps while other companies offer 3-4 at max

Before I've even.watched the video, I'd guess that hand sharpening will cut longer because any inconsistency in your control of the blade will make the cutting edge slightly convexed and stronger.? We'll see. I'll watch now.

@cedricada I’m curious about a couple of things: 1) Does the progression of grits make any difference in end result? 2) Does blade pressure with your “free” hand make any difference? I see several other YTers just using one hand and others use two. I ask the first question because I’m curious what is the difference between starting on say a 600 grit or 1000 grit if you finish both the same with maybe a 2k grit and a strop?

When you raise your elbow you should extend your pinky as well to have proper form... 🤪

Also, trying to be brief, plenty of "Star Wars" beginning comments to read.

Hi Hi, you forgot option C. Using your favorite stones with an angle clamp, as satisfying as free hand but without any convex bevels. I have been using a clamp with adjustable legs for a while now and got good results. 🙃

I strongly prefer microconvex/microbevel More stable, still good cutting performance for easily getting through material, and importantly it's easy to refresh that microbevel at the very edge! If you don't have any rolling or chips it's like 4 swipes on a strop or fine stone away from getting back to hair whittling sharp!

The rope slice is Comparable for you ! Cos there are many variables to consider . So it's relevant for comparing ( Knives / steels / edges / angles / grits ) So if one knife you test does 250 and another does say 450 . Then it's a relatively fair comparison as long as there are not to many variables . Is it fair to test say 16 deg per side against 20 deg per side ???? ( Maybe no as the variable may account for the result ) But some form of testing is surely better than no testing at all ( edge retention ) . All 's I can say is ........ Those nasty Variables !

A thought crossed my mind about your cutting board. You have steadfastly cut enough Sisel rope to go around the world a few dozen times (?, lol), and you've used knives of a multitude of different steels and I believe that there will a many particles of shed steel embedded into the surface of the board and some of the residual steel particles will be from steels with very high Rockwell hardness, so my theory, although I'm have no doubt that this will have crossed your mind aswel as many others minds before is how do these particles influence your cutting test results? On occasion I have accidentally knocked to freshly sharpened knives together and with highly polished edges. I then thought, shit, that was dumb thing to do no matter how glancing and light the contact was and I always do an intermittent, very gentle thumbnail rub test along the apex my freshly sharpened blades and obviously I've found that occasionally even the slightest clink together of blades has left a tiny deformation in the blades apex and/or on the primary edge bevel(s) (Secondary bevel what have you?) so my thoughts are that there will definitely be steel particles embedded in your cutting boards surface and I'm even wondering now that after all these long years of your dedicated testing (of which I am and many many other folks are grateful to you for) that your board may well cause more wear to the knives edges and thus affect your results? I remember seeing very well used chopping/cutting boards that had been used for generations in my family and their surfaces even after a good scrubbing could still sometimes appear to have a metallic discoloration, not rustlike necessarily, basically like powdered metal and slivers of metal which could possibly be considered micro splinters were embedded in these ancient chopping boards surfaces, so what I think is that maybe your cutting board has areas contaminated with microscopic high ally steel particles, and I obviously am concerned about the steel particles containing Vanadium, Tungsten, and other very high rhc hardness carbide dust and splinters and these particles will become more deeply embedded into the woods surface and grain, meaning that rather than being cut out of the board they're driven in further but still some I should think will still well be within reach of each blade you use to cut the rope. Maybe you've created a chopping board with a Rockwell hardness reading? IDK, just a thought mate? I've been free hand sharpening since I was about 10 years old and I have roughly 40 years experience of doing it and I don't harp on about it, I enjoy it, and I can put a bloody lethal sharp edge on all sorts of blades made from many different types of steel, and super shiny mirror edges I know aren't the best finish for certain steels and I don't chase getting them much tbh because of this. I research the steel, and then sharpen it accordingly and even if it's a bugger I still find the activity cathartic as you obviously do too! Good on you Pete, and keep well mate, 👍🏻🤝🏻.

Always using same materials, always fair, yes chopping board is in the way when you're rope testing the edges, and only guy who did notice that! I love your videos, thanks

Can you measure the edge bevel angle on both knives?

I have always been the guy at work that can sharpen your knife. I relied on a Lansky (fixed edge ) like a crutch for too long and I think I paid the price of not furthering me freehand skills for about 12 years. But after a reawakening brought on by outdoor55 and his videos on what steels do and what strops do. I have gone back to freehand and not without failures. But, Please, make a video of you stropping the blades back to paper slice and test again. I still think the new steel will out perform the old 440 Buck, but I think it would demonstrate how quick you can get this knife back into a ready to use sharp. As a quick side note , I have used the back false clip edge to start pulling a nail, shouldn't the fact that you can use this steel for a scraper or screwdriver, and it might bend a little, but it doesn't shatter. how hard is too hard for edc?

Getting dangerously close to being time to go down the Japanese natural whetstone rabbit hole 👀

Maybe pushing the blade back and forth on the stones instead of using the elbow lifting method would give a more similar perfromance to the fixed angle sharpener

A solid thick leather or hard rubber cutting board could help with your testing, I wonder if you went for a lower angle while free handing how many cuts you would get ...... and possibly spend twice as much time on your final stone ... the sped up rope cuts is satisfying to watch 👌

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH D: I died. I should have seen the scraping coming in the beginning but I also thought, "no, pete is not that evil"

Hi Pete, this was a really interesting test, really been enjoying these different testings lately. I’ve learnt a lot, keep up the good work, and hopefully you don’t get RSI in that wrist or shoulder.

Can a human really ever beat a fixed angle sharpening all else being equal? I mean its using the same style of stones and all it does is remove the human element, so unless you get stones that are VASTLY superior wont the fixed angle sharpening basically always do a better or as good job?

These are really two entirely different edges. You're being too hard on yourself here. Repeat the test with identical abrasives and grit progression and I'll paypal you a beer if they're not substantially closer in performance. 👍

Your test is better than CATRA when looking into real-world use. If the edge won't stand up to minute lateral pressure on a cutting board, the steel won't stand up to normal use either.

It was interesting to hear you could sharpen a 62 HRC steel with those Shapton stones. I have almost the same stones and I thought I need diamonds if I want to sharpen such steel.

Looking like a badass, freehand sharpening god has to be worth a couple hundred less rope cuts!

Wait until you make a mistake in the 4th dimension while sharpening, and your knife turns into a pile of iron oxide.... oh man not again....

Hi pete, one thing i seen with a lot of freehand sharpeners like neeves is that they use the same stone brand and system, just different grits, so you have one height of stones...one less variable to compensate for, might be better to learn and get that muscle memory and consistent accurate repeation you require without have to compensate for slight differences in stone height off the table. Just a thought....im no good at free hand...kme for me, hehe, might go a tsprof in future, and a big hello from oz mexico... Victoria

Might not be a problem with your sharpening technique, but rather you showing the difference between sharpening on ceramics vs on diamonds I have seen theories that ceramics or softer steels pulls out the hardest carbides leaving the softer materials, while diamond actually sharpens the hardest carbides, leaving more really hard particles for the edge. I think there might be at least some truth to that theory...

I assume the freehand convex edge would be stronger?

An interesting thought might also be, how does stropping each edge after testing differ? A lot of sharpeners believe that stropping causes a slight convex, perhaps the convex edge is better overall to the completely flat V edge.

This has nothing to do with your skill. The fixed angle sharpener used coarser stones and that’s what gets a knife sharp. Not the 1000 whetstone. Redo this test with the same grit stones and you may get a different result.

good job mate i can see your enthusiasm again, nice test i have both sharping systems and i still prefer sharpening stones

pls change you time laps it to farst or you skip the incorrect frams just normel speed is better 4:49 (good) 2:44 (not nice)

The excellent knife lab science continues! I'm here for it

I really hate the first 15 seconds. Thanks for that.

Good vid. I think it's a hard test to beat a machine edge going head to head freehand. But well done great result. 😊

By my lights not "which cuts better" but - which the experimenter can perform to better effect - is the question answered herein. According to THE SCIENCE less thickness behind the edge will result in better edge retention. To follow through on that, the implication is that the experimenter has achieved a steeper edge bevel with his freehand sharpening than with the fixed angle system. 'Much as one might expect, as every freehand deviance above the desired edge angle mashes the bevel back into itself, turning the V profile towards more of an egg shape.

I watched the first 23 seconds and stopped (I don't fear death)

The... sound... in the beginning...😵‍💫🤯😵☠️

This is expected, diamond finish is coarser, don't sell yourself short! If you hate yourself enough try it again this time with 2k and 5k finish to see there will be difference. Sharpening stones can be a hole as deep as the knife hobby itself. While CATRA and BESS testers are nice, they are not everything. There were some videos back in the days from super steel steve showing the edge for catra was some sort via pull through sharpening system and it was not reliable, there are also videos for the bess not being the most consistent.

I use a plant spray thingy of water to keep essential parts suitably sloppy while on the job.

Dont feel bad for not being as good as a guided sharpener. Thats a huge goal to attempt.

Hey not bad at all considering how new you are still to freehand also the fixed angle edge wasn’t as fine as a grit so is prob more toothy than your freehand

Great test Pete. Your obsessive thirst for knowledge has provided massive information on knife steels & sharpening. The kinds of things I imagine doing but would give up or give out by the 400 - 500 cuts mark. Take care of that shoulder, arm & it's joints !

I'm loving all the great content lately.

The vid I’ve been waiting for.

I’m thinking the 750 by hand compared to the fixed jig is actually really good. It might be heresy but I think in a lot of cases the really extremely sharp edges people go for aren’t that necessary. Sometimes an edge a bit back from that, that still cuts well enough but lasts longer is much more practical.

THE FIRST 8 MINUTES MADE ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diamond vs Ceramic. I would re-run the test free hand sharpening on diamond stones.

Great result I would say.

Great comparison testing and musings on Magnacut. I wish you many peaceful moments of freehand sharpening in the woodshed in your pursuit of fixed angle sharpening parity or even superiority. I'm thinking of you, Michael Christy and BBB!

Glove of slicing +1

I was hoping you would do this. 😊

Knife lab x1000

I got my first shaving sharp edge from free hand last night, in part due to this journey you are on(And Alex at outdoors55 and a sharpener friend in the community)....the sharpal 325/1200 is a dream...

Great job Peter!

I’m always down for a Ticks and Leaches scream. Soothes the soul ya know.

Hats off to you sir

It all depends, on how much knowledge and experience, especially the guy who does the free hand has. Free hand with proper convexing, finsihed with kangaroo leather strop (no nonsense marketing diamond liquids requaired) and final stage stroping on newspaper, which realighnes the molecules of the steel, CAN't be much, by any fixed angle method/ flat "V" edge bevel,that those fixed angle systems produce. Those I only use,mostly for changing edge angles/reprofiling ,mostly on folders.

You rock sir

As a freehand sharpener myself i saw under the mic you created a micro convex.

Nice test 👍

One reason for the difference could be the abrasives used. Perhaps the diamond abrasive produces a better base edge on MC to then be refined with the ceramic and strop. Or maybe because you finished at a lower grit with the system (~3k ceramic vs 8k ceramic stone) it gave that edge a bit more aggression. This will make your cuts through rope a little easier and may contribute to longer slicing edge retention. To talk compare your system and freehand edges, you need identical abrasives.

Great comparison

Do you think it could have been in part because you freehanded to a much higher grit? I feel like lower grit edges last longer on material like rope. Thoughts?

🔥🐈‍⬛🔥

I would like to see Jared from NeevesKnives do this experiment. He's a freehand sharpening freak so the results would be interesting.

👍

Your hand stability is already pretty good. I'm not so sure that is the issue. Usually coarse edge lasts longer than polished edge while cutting rope if you do slicing cuts. Probably the fine ceramic on the guided system is not as fine as a Shapton 8000. Stropping adds even more confounding factors. Edge durability is a tricky topic. Knife may lose edge by abrasion, rolling, chipping or corrosion. A test that isolates abrasion resistance like Catra will not be a good prediction if the way you use the knife wears it down by a different mechanism. For kitchen use that doesn't even come in contact with abrasive materials Catra makes little sense. Optimizing for edge stability with high hardness high toughness while also having good corrosion resistance would be ideal. That also allows for better finer geometry and better cutting performance. Despite not being as controlled as Catra your test makes more sense to me because it mixes abrasion resistance from the rope with edge stability on the cutting board. On real world use we are going to need edge stability.

Hey Pete, how do you minimize the burr on the worksharp? Do you rotate the knife after every pass? I just finished sharpening a few knives on my Work Sharp Precision Adjust and minimizing the burr is easlily the most annoying part, compared to free hand sharpening.