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Fixing My Low End (Home Studio) | SPLmixing.com

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Fixing My Low End (Home Studio)
Can Limp Bag Traps Be The Answer For Home Studios? Today I show you how I made my own limp bag bass traps to try and improve the low end frequency response in my room. Even I was surprised of the results, particularly in the bass region! These really seem to work!
Photo credits (professionally designed limp bags):
John Brandt Designs.
John Brandt is a highly skilled American acoustic designer based in Indonesia and I'd recommend checking out his work or seeking consultation for your room.
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#DIY #basstraps #splmixing

Опубликовано:

1 окт 2021

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Комментарии : 51

@ramiolsen 2 года назад

First of all: Thanks for your research and sharing your results! One thing, though: Glass/mineral wool is a health hazard, so you should protect yourself while handling it and also not have it hanging in your studio unsealed!

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

Your welcome! I have asthma and this particular brand can be handled without gloves with no issues, it doesn't irritate my lungs either. I cannot speak for other products, or the same brand products in different countries. No nasty chemicals in these particular batts.

@vitaliistep 2 года назад

Your channel is a gem. Thank you, Daniel!

@eliaszerano3510 8 месяцев назад

How do you build the tube traps ? Are they more effective than super chunks ?

@SPLMixing 8 месяцев назад

No, they serve a different purpose. Superchunks work well from floor to ceiling in all room corners. For the tube traps, I followed a RU-vid tutorial I found. Still, you can get similar results using regular panel traps placed around the perimeter of your room, with less effort and space requirements. I didn't know this when I made the tube traps, but I have since learned otherwise. Don't waste your time with tube traps. The data does not conclusively support them being any better than regular insulation panel absorbers.

@eliaszerano3510 8 месяцев назад

@@SPLMixing thank you !

@dougweier1 Год назад

God bless you for this. Thank you 🙏🏻

@matthewblue7839 2 года назад

Interesting, essentially you added an awful lot of absorption, but hard to conclude the benefit of the membrane as you have no comparison between all the new insulation not in a bag and in the bag. You might want to check the rt60 in 1/3 octaves and over lay your results as this will help show the change between the two environments. The plastic might actually be maintaining a little of your high end so the room doesn’t sound too dead. The rt60 would show you that too. Anyway, certainly an improvement and good luck with your further work and mixes.

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

I performed a basic limp bag test on my rear wall prior to committing to them in the room and it showed very promising results for RT60. I'm very happy with the room currently, my monitoring needs an upgrade though.

@sarinsahil 2 года назад

Eye opening! I agree J.H Brandt is amazing. I heard him talk about it in an interview with a drummer. I confused them with limp mass traps. I just can't find more info on this. Can you please tell us more about limp bag traps? Where can I read more about its construction and its uses? Thank you very much! :)

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

Look up John on Facebook and join his book group. The information changes constantly as they learn new things.

@sarinsahil 2 года назад

@@SPLMixing Thank you very much!

@thenoddy7 2 года назад

Nice results! I've got some panels I made with dense Hardiefire wool but have wondered about supplementing them with some less dense pink fluffy insulation - was even thinking about trying bean bags filled the the stuff in the corners but guess you need to go floor to ceiling with this stuff to get the best results?

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

From my own research, it sounds like less dense is the way to go. Even though the Knauf product I used calls itself High Density, it's not that rigid or dense. The idea of the limp bags is that they cushion the bass where the most pressure builds up, which is in the tri-corners and bi-corners where bass is most active, and along the surfaces of the room i.e. walls and ceiling. Floor to ceiling trapping will cover the areas nicely, but you should always test this with a calibrated mic and follow the scientific method to A/B yourself towards a better sounding room. Even the best acoustical designers change plans on the fly to accommodate the numbers they're seeing back from testing. It's worth experimenting, and even when I've got things wrong in the past, I've always been able to re-appropriate the materials to a new design philosophy.

@fredfox3851 9 месяцев назад

Thanks for posting this. I wonder what would happen if one was to leave the compressed insulation in the bag and stack them up like blocks? Maybe they would be too dense. Acoustics is weird science and I know that seemingly logical solutions are OFTEN wrong. Thanks again.

@SPLMixing 9 месяцев назад

It definitely bears consideration and testing. I'd imagine that it potentially makes the density too much to be effective.

@prenticetyndall Год назад

Did you test these traps with and without the "bag"? I'm fairly sure the garbage bag is not doing anything at low frequencies, and the results you see are simply from the stuffing material.

@SPLMixing Год назад

Yes, see previous videos. Acousticians have tested these out independently and determined that the garbage bag / 2 mil poly makes them absorb a bell shape of lower frequencies. These are based on a commercially available product and variations of the design (pictured in the video) made their way into many of John Brandt's recent studio designs too.

@barmatan7026 Год назад

Hi if i use the limp bags over a foam and not an insultion it still work?

@SPLMixing Год назад

The short answer is "I'm not sure". No one (to my knowledge) has tested this out. If you do try it, be sure to perform extensive before and after tests. This is still relatively uncharted territory by most acousticians, with the exception of John Brandt and Ron Sauro.

@qrdaudio 2 года назад

Which one better from your experience, superchunk or limpbag?

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

Both serve different functions. John Brandt is the expert I've been following. From my basic understanding, limp bags act where pressure is highest, but you still need something acting in the velocity regions to catch all. This is where super-chunks come into use

@johnryansullivan2439 2 года назад

im curious to see the differnce between your method of using two bags over top of each other (im assuming you used 2 full bags?) and just cutting a "lid" out of another bag and only overlapping by 3'' or so. i have built several of johns bags (i see you used his framed model as an example) but in my conversations with him it seems that 2mil is the magic number so far as the membrane is concerned - with a permisable jump up to 3mil. But by overlapping the bags entirely you are essentially doubling the thckness of the membrane. i realize that your results are unique to your room specifically and not to be considered as standard for these things... but id be intersted to see if theres any diffence in performance between the two methods !!

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

I wish I had more time to test out different thicknesses. Thanks for this information, I believe I'm within that 2-3mm window, even with an overlap of approximately 1/3 to 1/2 of the insulation batt height. I did not trim down the bags, I just used the 2 x full lengths, but it still worked out well for me. The decay time for the bass frequencies was very smooth, much like the 'sausage of sound' John talks about when it comes to bass. I pasted my data in his Facebook forum too of my results.

@user-lh3mt7ki1r Год назад

Have you done any tests without the additional treatment? (with just the limp bags) to see what effect can be directly attributed to the limp bags.

@SPLMixing Год назад

Yes, but it doesn't help the mids and highs, as the bags need soft treatment to stop the reflections. However, I did observe a smoothing and evening out of the lows.

@user-lh3mt7ki1r Год назад

@@SPLMixing true, but would have been nice to see their effect on their own, as you have some very thick porous absorber in front of it, wouldn't a thinner layer would have sufficed for mid and highs? And by the way, how do you think these limp bags compare with superchunk? They work better on the low end?

@SPLMixing Год назад

Super Chunks serve a different function as they are velocity based absorption, whereas Limp Bags are pressure based absorption. A thinner layer might have sufficed, but I didn't want to take any chances that I would need to revise the room again. So far, so good. I do remember testing the limb bags on their own on the rear wall, and their effect was as I described in the previous comment.

@eliaszerano3510 2 года назад

Do limbags help with a 30 Hz node ?

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

They're good for overall smoothing, so they'd help. If you're looking to target specific frequencies, you're best to make 2-3 inch insulation panels with the wooden frame extending further behind the plane/face of the insulation. By extending the wood, you create a sealed cavity behind the insulation and you effectively lower the absorptive frequencies of the original panel. The wood extension must be seated and sealed against the wall. You must experiment with the depth to target that low.

@audfrknaveen2256 2 года назад

I was thinking the lymp bag should be made with some kind of magic material 😂. You made with regular acoustic bats and a polythene covers. Great to know !! 😊👍

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

2mil thickness is ideal

@audfrknaveen2256 2 года назад

@@SPLMixing that's awesome !!! Very useful video....and congratulations for the results 😊😊👍 keep up the good work 👍👍😀

@audfrknaveen2256 2 года назад

Let me ask one more question...limp mass is supposed to work with trapped air pressure in a solid wooden cabinet and a flexible membrane in the front. In your approach there is no solid wood cabinet and no air pressure. What's ur working principle here ??

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

Not my working principle or design. It's a design that has become popular recently in acoustic forums. All I know is that people have tested various versions and this is the cheapest implementation of it. Limp mass traps work differently to limp bags, there's no requirement to have a wooden compartment.

@audfrknaveen2256 2 года назад

@@SPLMixing awesome !! 👍👍 Apart from limp bags, you added huge amount of absorption material in front of limp bags. By any chance is this working just like regular bass traps?? . How can we come to a conclusion that polythene covers are adding value. (I'm just trying to understand purely from technical perspective. No offense what so ever 😊😊😊👍)

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

I tested the poly plus insulation and just insulation separately. Not sure if I documented that in a video, but the bags did appear to have a broadband bass absorptive effect not observed with insulation alone. As the limp bags on their own are reflective of highs, you must place insulation in front of them, so keep that in mind. Also worth mentioning that insulation on its own is not considered bass trapping in any acoustics forums. I did it because the more you add, the smoother the response overall at the cost of some space.

@audfrknaveen2256 2 года назад

@@SPLMixing 😀😀😀 that's awesome to know !!!! For absorbing highs one single 50mm thick absorber placed in front of the limp bags leaving 50mm air gap behind should work down to around 200 hz. Any ways .... congratulations man 😀😀 love your work 😊👍👍

@user-lh3mt7ki1r Год назад

Hello, do you have a link to the video or article form john brandt that describes the limp bag traps?

@SPLMixing Год назад

facebook.com/groups/517162262483268/?ref=share&mibextid=NSMWBT

@SPLMixing Год назад

Lots of information here

@user-lh3mt7ki1r Год назад

Thanks!!

@user-lh3mt7ki1r Год назад

By the way, how thick are the bags you are using? In the facebook group I read they should be 2mill which equals to 0.0508 mm, but that sounds extremely thin, and in your video they don't appear to be anywhere near as thin...

@SPLMixing Год назад

2 millimetres thick

@plummetplum 2 года назад

How does this work, is it broadband absorption at the low end?

@SPLMixing 2 года назад

I can't speak with too much authority on the subject, but John Brandt, a well known acoustic designer, is better able to explain what is going on here. My understanding is that by sealing the bags, you're creating a pillow for the bass frequencies to absorb in a more broadband way. I've noticed a huge improvement by placing these against the boundary surfaces and then having a non-reflective layer in front.

@plummetplum 2 года назад

@@SPLMixing Thanks for the reply. Are you able to link me to one of his RU-vid vids where he talks about it or if you could tell me where on his website (RU-vid won't allow you to post links to non YT sites). Much appreciated 😁

@acklandb Год назад

Thanks for this great video! I'm based in Sydney Australia and I think the solution you've outlined here is right for my room. Just double checking, is the insulation material you used Earthwool Sound Shield R2.5? I notice this is fairly low density compared to say Owens Corning 703, does that have a large effect on the low frequency absorption of the bass traps? My main problems are a 6 dB dip at 75 Hz and a bout a 10dB peak at 107 Hz. Any advice is much appreciated.

@SPLMixing Год назад

Higher density material will reflect bass instead of absorbing it, according to acoustic expert John Brandt. Knauf earthwool in a roll, not batts, is better.