This video discusses the difference between a flat mountain bike handlebar and a riser bar. I also discuss handlebar width and the effect on bike handling.
I started out riding a bike with factory fitted flat bar,. But swapping to a riser bar transformed the ride, and I never looked back. Recently moved to a 780mm riser, which has made another huge difference on my trail bike.
Thanks, what a great video again! I have the 750mm width and 20mm rise (Easton Havoc) in my 29er. It's awesome bar and I don't feel that it's too wide. The reason is that I control my bike by moving my body and trying to tilt the bike more in faster speed. Like in cornering I try to stay on top of the best position so the wider bar is very welcome. I feel I have more control when I'm using the riser bar. I found out that the 8 degrees back sweep was not enough to me and the 9 degrees was spot on. I have difficulties to fit my bike in between trees though.
- Do some pushups. - While doing pushups move your hands in and out a little bit until it feels best (i.e., most comfortable position with least amount of fatigue on your wrists and muscles). - Now have a buddy measure the distance across your hands. - Write down this number. - Cut your bars to this distance. - Report back and let us know if you still believe wider bars are less fatiguing.
Ive been riding on and off for 17 years on a cannondale bar that is exactly Straight, and narrow, i'm getting back in to riding for health reasons and watching this video is making me go to amazon for new bars!
You've helped me a lot with pointing out the feedback aspect - I never thought of it that way, and in my XC riding I really appreciate some feedback (600-640 mm bars with 193cm height). I was wondering why after switching to wider 680mm bars I couldn't turn half as good as with narrower bars. That's because of my riding style - little steering and quick reactions. Some probably use more radical steering and when the front wheel travels side-to-side on uneven surfaces they just grab the bars harder and wait for the grip to come back. I rather try to adopt to the trail, especially in the turns.
Thanks for the demo and information, have just switched from a flat bar to a 35 mil riser. I had been getting wrist pain on longer journeys. However the flat bar was 660 mil v 760 on the riser, will judge if the riser is to wide over the coming weeks, and i will make adjustments if needed. I cycle a general purpose touring bike.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm nearing the end stages of my 29er commuter DIY project, but still giving thought to my bar/stem setup. You express your opinions well, thanks!
Re bar length, with a light setup I find the opposite effect of what you describe - the shorter the bar, the more sensitive the bike is to inputs because smaller movements translate to larger wheel movements. The longer bar will give more leverage but the wheel turns less for the same hand movement. This "smooths out" inputs which can help maintain front wheel traction. Front end weight is also a consideration - if you have a heavy wheel/fork/bar you might need the leverage of a longer bar, which gives you that "more control" feel. If you have light wheel and fork, the shorter bar will feel (and be) faster...perhaps to the point of being "twitchy."
The steeper head angle will also give, as you described, a lighter-feeling front end, whereas a slacker head angle will make the steering slower and more deliberate. Regarding bar with, I find the increased leverage of a wider bar makes the bike feel more twitchy. Yes, in theory a shorter bar would allow for more response from less movement, but I find the opposite in terms of feel. To exaggerate this ride with both hands next to the stem on the bars. The steering will feel very labored and slow and even stable.
Clint, I find the exact opposite. When switching to a much wider and shorter cockpit I found I felt so much more planted and in control. I could make much better and more accurate fine tuning movements while riding fast. I can hit speeds today that I could only dream of with my old narrow/long/steep setup of years past. I will never go shorter than 750 ever again. But that's just me.
All those XC bikes make feel that over the bars feeling, now days I use short stem around 30-45mm and a set back seat post and riser bars. 720-740 with 40 mm rise. this does wonders for xc bikes, pushes back my center and lightens the front end.this is awesome for tall guys as well. really opens up the legs without feeling hunched over.everyone has their sweet spot, find it!
Yep....just fixed a 35mm stem and 720mm width 24.5mm rise Pro Taper carbon handlebar on my xc hardtail. So much difference, in a good way. Bike is more playful but still climbs well. It now feels like an xc/trail hardtail. So much fun. Cheers!
I don't think longer bars make steering more sensitive, they slow it down 3:35. No question it gives a person more leverage but the further out a person goes, the further one has to turn the bars to have the same turning effect, which means it's a bit less sensitive to a one inch turn at 1.5 feet out than it would be to a 1 inch turn at 1 foot out on either side of the stem, which means a person might need to turn the bar 1.25 inches at 1.5 feet to equal a 1 inch turn at 1 foot. What all that means in relation to slacker or steeper head angles and the effect of initiating a turn by leaning I don't know. I always imagine if I had 8 inch handlebars, it'd take almost no input to turn sharply but they would be very difficult to control on a rough trail. Conversely 6 ft. wide handlebars would need a lot of turning to merely veer but it would be a breeze to control the front end even in the roughest of trails.
OMG I forgot I even posted here. I think I'd make more sense now. The wider the bars the less sensitive to turning BUT, to counteract that the stem gets super short, so a wide bar turns just as sensitive as a narrow one IF the stem is super short. It's a combination of competing actions between bar and stem and obviously, the geometry of the frame has to be slightly different to accommodate either preference. Steepness of head angle is a separate factor concerning sensitivity as that also shortens or lengthens the radius of a turn, 70 or 71 degrees being a lot more sensitive than 75 or even 73.
Great advice thank you..i actually do have lower back pains and numb feeling in my left wrist..i drive a flatbar and was thinking about a riserbar and after seeing this video i am convinced...thanx from the Netherlands!!
Way back in the day, Bontrager claimed that there is no benefit of a riser bar that cannot be identically recreated with the right combination of stem & flat bar. Geometrically, that's undeniable. The implied question is whether the other characteristics of the riser (the bends, in particular) add anything compared to the weight penalty. Bontrager's conclusion was "no." I agree with that. Instead, the question is what is the best position and how can you get it? Absolutely I prefer bars with a larger sweep angle. I also recognize that playing with multiple combinations of stems & bars is more difficult than simply slapping on a new bar. I personally don't ride riser bars. Part of it is that all my riding is in tight trails through trees, and wide bars are too prone to catching trunks. Also, I don't have the widest torso, so the narrower profile fits my body better. Another reason is I'm willing to mix & match stems & bars to get what feels good, and that's probably more than most people.
Absolutely on point. Especially now with the availability of wide flat bars with any amount of sweep. Riser bars simply lower the center of the bar, period. Oh, and they add weight. And make it more difficult to mount my lights computer and bell and basket. 😊
You know I have been meaning to write for a long time but I just love the way that u don't let even an ounce of doubt left in your viewer's mind through your videos.... Very thorough! Loved it.... Keep them coming. And do these videos on the basics of biking equipment more and more! Kudos....
Very good video and I have to agree the feel of riser bars is nice. One thing in your video I noticed you say is that longer handle bars make the bike turn faster... I actually find just the opposite, my 1994 trek has 24" bars and it's very sensitive, actually to the point of feeling twitchy and unstable sometimes. it'd be interesting to see a video on frame size and setup, i.e. you could buy a larger frame and run a shorter stem or buy a smaller frame with a stock or longer stem and how all that affects which choice you'd make. I noticed one company called mondraker is doing something interesting and making longer frames with non existent stem lengths, I believe they call it "forward geometry". It'd be neat if we could test ride bikes with different configurations like this where the cockpit is the same, handlebar height, reach, stack, etc. but different components to achieve this. Sorry to ramble, great videos!
I think he didn't word it properly. Wider bars slows the input down a bit but gives so much leverage. Narrower bars speeds up that input but can make the bike feel twitchy as you said. My dad has a 94 Trek 850 mountain track with the stock bars. Man! That thing feels sooooo twitchy next to my 750 bars on my modern Trek. I'm in the process of "updating" his bike to use my old 680 bars. Should make a world of difference.
Wider bar is more force, but less agility with the same hand stroke path lenght. I think, some subtitles should be added to avoid misleading :D. It is not clear if 'sensitive' means 'force' or 'agility' in this video.
Thanks. Good video. I guess the truth is that we all have to experiment to find the right setup -- and our setup needs change as we develop our riding skills.
I really like the feel of long stem/ narrow bars/ curly bar ends. It sounds so 90s but I love that feeling. Wide bars make me feel like I can turn the bars too easily and makes me steer too far
Clint... I like your videos very much. You explain very detailed and it's easy to understand. And yes, there's always people who has other opinions about everything. But we all can make our own decisions in the end. But it sure gets easier to choose when watching your videos. Keep up the good work.
I'm going to try this on one of my road bikes. I plan to make my 2019 specialized allez sprint comp give it a flat bar or a riser bar for long distance riding.
I use my talon for road riding, and switched by bars round from the bike with FS, the riser on that was only 20mm, and 30 on my Talon, and needed the higher riser to help with down hills (So I didn't feel so far pushed forward descending). . . but only had one spacer at the time on the talon and on my first long distance ride experienced some lower back pain. Had a feeling it was because the bar felt too low. (I also have a sort of bad pelvis joint too which doesn't help). I did just add another spacer, cheaper than replacing the bar . But yeah, it's crazy how much difference just a few millimeters can make to how comfortable you are on a bike.
Since I switched to wider bars/shorter stem I can't find myself riding anything shorter than 730/740mm bars and can't understand how some people still rides narrow bars (I get the longer stem for fitting/body position issues) so much more control on the bike. Another thing I realized when playing with rise on handlebars is that putting spacers under or over the stem obviously helps you get the desired height but it also changes the reach/toptube length, so something to take into consideration if you are very particular about your setup or are very sensitive to small changes, in my case I can feel the difference in changes as small as 5mms in saddle height or fore/aft movement.
sweep and upsweep can be duplicated with a flat bar by rotating it. The correct bar and stem can duplicate what you get with riser bar, but easier to achieve with the riser. Also the more narrow the bar the more faster the steering. Crosscountry racers prefer faster more sensitive setup for climbing.
I went wider by just 2.5 cm to 700mm and to a flat bar on my XTC Advanced 27.5 med, but after 2 hours I wanted to sit upright, my lower back was hurting as well as my arms and neck. I went back to the slightly narrower and higher bar, feeling instantly better. My stem was already at 90mm so I didn't want to go shorter just so I could have a wider bar. I ride mostly open roads and gravel or very narrow singletrack and I'm a smaller guy so slighter narrower made sense for me. So many factors in choosing a handlebar....
Haven't we known this since the 80s, we we were all riding BMX bikes? I feel like mountain bikes with narrow bars took a step backwards in the late 80s and 90s, just to set themselves apart from BMX. Which they are now realizing was silly, as people are now using wide riser bars with hard tail suspensions. In my opinion these are now just modified BMX bikes. I am happy about this, because I feel like I can ride a mountain bike now, without feeling so uncomfortable.
I prefer a more raised bar I love going out on my bike doing all sorts of riding. hopping up little steps pulling wheelies going off road .. riser bar all the way
My XC: Head angle 80° (steep as f.) Original stem: 120mm - 15° Original bars: 580mm New stem: 40mm - 0° New bars: 785mm - Up-sweep: 5,5°, Back-sweep: 8°, Rise: 15mm My DH: Head angle: 58° (slack as f.) Stem: 40mm - 0° Bars: 810mm - Up-sweep: 2°, Back-sweep: 5°, Rise: 7mm Both bikes handles really well. So, go wider bars and shorter stem. Flat style bars feels beter for me, but this is personal. I can recommend FUNN Fatboy DH 810mm 7mm rise (flatest) for Downhill and FUNN Fatboy DH 785 15mm rise (mid) for XC. And TRUVATIV Holzfeller OS 40mm stem.
I remember a lot of old 1990's trails that had trees so close together, a modern trail bike handlebar wouldn't even fit through. I try real hard not to be a retro grouch, but if your hand position is wider than your shoulders it just feels weird. Save the trees. Narrow is aero!
I really dig your channel Clint; you have alot of useful info here. I actually just bought a Trance 2 based on your reviews. I wasnt able to do a full trail demo before I bought it, so all your input really helped. I am really enjoying it, great bike. But I do find the front end kinda hard to get off the ground as you noticed as well. I definitely feel a riser bar is needed to get the control I want. The width on the Giant bar feels pretty good, so I think I will keep that the same. Thanks for all your help!
Clint Gibbs 10-4, will do. Oh, do you know whats the difference between the $30-40 aluminum Race Face bars and the more expensive alum bars they make? They dont have much info on their site. Is it just a matter of weight? Thanks, Clint.
Clint Gibbs Ok, so I chose the Race Face Atlas 1 1/4" rise, 785mm wide. They felt way too wide immediately and made the bike kinda twitchy so I cut them down to 735. The stock Trance bars were 730, which felt very comfortable. Ive only had about 20 hours on them but the significant rise has made a huge difference in control and comfort. Its so much easier to get the front wheel up quickly when I need to. The biggest positive though would be how much less strain on my back and neck/shoulders there is now. Ive had a few back injuries, so this change has definitely allowed me to ride longer and more aggressively with far less discomfort. Another thing, I am probably imagining it, but the front end seems lighter now, or more fluid or something. Anyway, small change, big difference. Thanks for your help, Clint.
Having a longer (wider) bar necessitates having the bar angle a bit to reduce wrist strain. Much less with a narrow bar as I found out with the 59 cm (make that 57 because of the bar-ends) straight bar on my rental the other day. It was actually doable albeit a very twitchy ride. It felt all nervous sitting so far forward and hands so close together. But no wrist pain.
i use a 690mm riser bar on my Anthem 29er, but do flip the stem - seems to work pretty well. Would also add that wide riser bars do really help on steep descents for me, i find that having a narrow flat bar makes the bike much harder to handle and pushes too much weight forwards on my Anthem and XTC
Just picked up a 730x25 rise Giant Connect bar for my 2015 Trance 3 to replace the stock 690x low rise (15mm?) bar. Should help control and let me space out my controls the way I want. Great video!
When I went from 45mm riser to a flat bar, I ate it so hard when I landed my first jump. It’s so sensitive. My front wheel went right out from under me. I don’t know if the wind caught me or if I wasn’t completely centered when I landed, but I wasn’t expecting my bike to roll out from under me so fast. Needless to say I got some Chromag FUBARS and back to a 40mm rise. Flat bars have their special feel that some people love and they are crazy good for certain disciplines, but it is something to get used to because it changes EVERYTHING.
Sorry to bother yogu. Are I have 2014 zesty 329 is a trial 29er bike with 120mm travel I want to feel more secure as I go DH. Will a riser bar help me stay more secure behind the bars and how many mm do you recommend
ordered a Cinelli Gazzeta Della Strada from MBS in Md. and already planning to get a riser bar due to several factors you mentioned in the vid, namely old age causing back issues after an hour. love the new Whisky Milhouse but think it may create a BMX look that I am not interested in. it's also very wide and 288 grams for $215. but cool and likely super comfy while soaking up bumps.
Longer bar make the bike to be more sensitive to steering inputs? I do not agree. It is the opposite. It will make your steering more precise and will get you more control because you will have to make longer hand strokes to turn wheel with the same angle. So in other words it will dull your steering response.
+Michał Szul *sensitive* can have different meanings. My reference to it in relation to steering input would be the amount of feedback you get from the front wheel. It's about leverage. All about leverage...and much less about actual motion. The extra leverage with a longer bar requires less effort to turn the front wheel. In that aspect the sensitivity relates to the amount of effort that you put into it. Turning the bike is more sensitive in relation to the amount of effort it takes me to turn the wheel. Think think about turning a small bolt with a long wrench. You may require more motion to turn the bolt but the torque you put into turning the bolt is higher with less effort. Somewhat of an obscure analogy but hopefully it makes sense.
I know what you mean but the words used are just misleading. How would you call road bike with 400mm handlebar if not sensitive to steering inputs? Ask anybody to try riding around with hands on grips and second time with hands close to stem. Which one you think they will tell you makes the bike more sensitive? ;)
+Michał Szul well, that's what makes life so great. We can all have different opinions and still respected each other :). When I go from a shorter handlebar to a wider handlebar the front wheel is more sensitive to my efforts. I find myself over steering the bike because of this sensitivity to efforts. However, I do get more feedback from the front wheel with a shorter handlebar. I know in this case there is a difference between physics and actually feel. That's the best way I can describe it.
Excellent video. I'll be experimenting different bar widths on my enduro bike with a 66 degree head angle to find the appropriate balance. I Subscribed, and Keep up the good work.
Wider bars def help with back issues. Riser way more comfortable too...it's always mod #1 with me. Uphills become more difficult with the Riser with the bike wanting to wheelie easier, but the tradeoff is worth the price of admission imho.
good point on the back fatigue. that there is the reason why I hate riding road bikes. it's downright painful just to ride to the store. more upright =better for guys like me. hell, I would like to have a 29er beach cruiser with ape hangers, come to think about it. :)
Clint, I'm glad I found your video. I'm new to Fat Tire biking and learning! Would you recommend a riser for someone who rides casually on single tracks, roads and rural roads? As I'm typing this, I do feel some soreness in my wrists from riding yesterday. I do believe a riser is the way to go. Thanks!
I'm starting to get wrist pain when riding. Getting older sucks. I have a feeling I'm gonna need to invest in a riser bar soon. It's getting to where I can't bear to ride any longer than 16 miles without my hands getting numb from the wrist pain. Having numb hands weaken my grip on the bars and can cause a potential accident. Especially when doing jumps, drops, and other features.
Just found this vid. Great explanation. I actually exchanged my 66cm riser (Kona splice 29er standard) with a 72cm flat. My hands are starting to tingle and sleep after a pretty short time. Like you state in the beginning of the vid, probably due to the position of wrists. So, ordered a 70cm riser and will replace the flat again with that. Maybe flip the stem if I find I'm too upright.
I used to ride an old Norco VPS with probably what was a medium length bar. I felt like I had great control on the bike. I just got a new trail bike with modern geometry and a flat 800 bar along with a 55mm long stem. Sometimes I feel like I am just over the bar and I dont feel as confident. I think I want a shorter, riser bar to get that ols BMX feel LOL
A couple relevant aspects: the XC bike is more akin to road bikes, ie twitchier, and by keeping hands in closer, it lets the bike track itself, sort of like when you take a water bottle and keep one hand in close to the stem clamp, where you have less leverage/input over the wheel. The slower, lower head angle trail bikes require more leverage to redirect the front wheel path, and wider bars let you do this. Just remember you might not fit between those narrow trees like your XC buddy in front of you! Also, riser or any bar with more degrees cant from straight lets you play with angles to let your hands sit naturally with minimal wrist bend, which is likely the greatest source of wrist fatigue and even nerve issues, aside from front fork impact and vibration.
I ran 7° downsweep stem with a flatbar for 5 years and didn't like it, every time I was going uphill I found myself trying to put myself into a higher position and my back hurt. Now I exchanged them for stem with 4° rise and riserbar wit 5° rise and it feels better riding uphill, less racy on flats, but much more comfortable otherwise.
forgot to mention I have stopped buying xc bikes and hardtails all together, the enduros can fit the bill given correct setup. Go light, carbon rims, say 30 mm internal width 68 ha, I recommend a carbon setback seatpost if nothing rubs. if your over 210 lbs stick to tubes but miles vary, adjustable travel suspension. your good , that will do the most.
Now i know why i always get wrist pain even on a short distance ride. i'm replacing my handle bar. Can you please give the specs of the riser bar. thanks Clint.
I'm wondering who started the trends of riser and wider handlebars. I've bought a couple bikes lately with standard width 24" to 25" riser bars and I find them OK and rideable, but I'm use to flat bars and a more upper body forward leaning position and now I lower the stem dropping the height of the riser bars to put my upper body in the same position. I don't understand why someone would want 30" handlebar in tight xc scraping every tree.
Question for you, do you feel there is a difference putting the rise on the stem rather then the bars? Meaning does a flat bar + riser stem = riser bar + less rise stem? Just wondering your thoughts. Thank you for the video :)
Sorry but you've got this almost completely wrong! Wide bars don't make steering more sensitive at all, they do the exact opposite! With a long bar your hands have to move further to generate a given amount of turn than they would with a shorter bar, meaning they are less sensitive. They are more accurate because of the larger range of motion. They are also easier to turn because of the lever effect. Think you are spot on regarding the rise of the bar and it's benefits though.
+Dave Hughes like I posted several times to other comments, it's not about range of motion it's about Leverage. Wider bars give you more leverage which decreases the feel you have with the front tire. Think about using an extremely long handle when turning a bolt. You have very little feel of how much you are tightening that bolt. Where is if you use a short handle you have very good feel on the amount of tension. I know it's somewhat of an obscure analogy but it's the same feeling with wider bars. I lose front end feedback from the front tire with a wider bar. But you do have more control in rough sections because of that leverage. Hope this makes sense.
people forgot that there isn't much movement of the handle bars anyways, especially at speed. To turn a bike you lean it over more than anything. there is a slight movement of the bars but not much. wider bars allow you to lean the bike more easilly and therefore will give you quicker feeling handling at higher speeds.
@@zacjohnson452 I rode it about 20 miles total and it started slipping out of gear and crackling and crunching at the crank between the pedals arms.........
I think he was trying to say is with narrow bars he can feel what the bike is doing faster than with wide bars. That being said I like rocks and would never go back to narrow bars.
I've strange thing happening with my handle grips they tend severely wear through the outer part of where the grips, where my palms sit, (I run a flat bar, shoulder width) so do I want even more pressure in that area, by using a riser bar? This seems country intuitive...
Great information. Thanks! I'm looking at doing a long gravel/off road race. I hadn't planned to do this when I bought my Specialized 29er Camber Comp. I love my bike, and really don't want to buy another just for this race. Looking at ways to modify my current by into a competitive gravel bike. My bike is full suspension. I do have lower back pain and wrist issues at about 40+ miles of gravel riding, but just starting my 6 month's worth of training. I was wondering what would be the best bars for me and other suspension setup issues, etc. My race weight will be in the low 190lbs. Thanks for any advice you can give. I plan to go to a gravel type tire.
