I love your videos Mike because you leave the hardcore wafeform analysis in - Please don't dumb it down for us. You do the best electronics vids on the 'net.
Exciting video Mike. More hardcore stuff!! Once again, my absolute favorite youtube channel author proves his awesomeness. I always learn something new, no matter what the video subject you've produced. Thanks Mike!
aww man, seeing this in the queue made my evening. Please keep doing this stream of consciousness reverse engineering thing. this and the mipi display videos where awesome.
Mike, that's a fine piece of reverse engineering! My fingers have been itching too for some time to reverse engineer the Flir Lepton, but damn you're fast! :) Major props for easing the task for anyone else willing to venture in Flir Lepton's still uncharted territory. (please excuse my shameless plug...): Should anyone be interested in entry-level, sub $100, open-source, open-hardware thermal imaging be sure to check my ongoing project on Hackaday.io: hackaday.io/project/1974-TJ---$99-Thermal-Imager
Mike, my biggest respect goes to You, I know this video is going to be awesome ! Thanks Mike for those videos, You are my number 1 channel behind Dave haha :D (No offense Dave, still love Your videos but I like Mikes style better)
Dave is more into entertainment videos now, Mike's are firmly in the engineering domain. Fair enough really, Dave has to go with what generates most views/money! But this is what I'm watching at 5am on a Sunday morning. I suspect Adafruit may well underwrite an order for 1000x sensors @ $250, they have a lot of customers with disposable incomes who love this sort of thing.
Nice. Could be a USB camera and for android as well. The flir page says the lepton sensor is available for oem. That sounds to me like it can be bought alone. Prompting digikey to stock it could be all it takes. Digikey folks are quite responsive to suggestions.
Another masterful demonstration of the art of reverse engineering! I can just barely keep up - but I learn more in a few minutes watching over your shoulder than in a whole book of electronics theory! (best to do both, they re-inforce each other, but Mike is much more watchable!)
Superb vid as always, Mike. Is it possible the Atmel ARM is accessing extra boot data from the SPI Flash on the board? Would be interesting to see how the chip select for the Flash chip relates to the other data. Much simpler using SPI rather than MIPI for the pixel data though. I'll definitely be grabbing one of the sensors if they make them available separately.
Mike, awesome vid. I glad you only moved the scope stuff to the end instead of trashing it, they were still very interesting. I just wish my scope was as powerful - I could only dream of a list function for I2C data.
Thanks for sharing and including detailed reverse engineering shots from the scope. Brilliant prototype, looks it's part ^^ Looking forward to seeing the microchip code if you decide to upload it.
Funny how you mentioned this could be integrated into a quadcopter or something, because seeing how simple the mockup you built on that PCB was my first thought was to mate it with a cheap 480TVL board camera from china and an RC camera switcher so just a flick of a switch can take you from standard color camera to thermal. Add a lens onto it to focus it at about 10-15 feet and you have a DIY government drone. Maybe with some extra hardware the two signals could be overlayed like in the One the module came from or the Flir E series.
To get into the linux system that's running it should work to press "Ctrl-C" at "Hit CTRL-C to s autoboot" (you lost 3 bytes there) and add "init=/bin/sh" to the default cmdline using u-boot commands. There may be some interesting stuff in the image.
Reading the Linux log there is a lepton kernel module, may it be worth asking FLIR for the Linux source as required under GPL, it could give some insight on the I2C data.
donpalmera Yes and no. As all I/O operations essentially pass-trough kernel calls, it could interesting to replace those kernel calls with dummy functions which report those calls out to the serial port. Lots of effort - recording an replaying the I2C Traffic would be easier for MIkes purposes - but when you want to hack the FlirOne it self (not the bare chip) it could be still worth it. Remember: They need to hand out the source code AND a documentation how to flash the kernel onto the device. I am really confused why they use linux here - on the higher end cameras they use a Windows, which has the benefit of "when you buy a license, you can to what ever". But with Linux, you have to supply a GPL copy, hold backups of every ever released Kernel Version (any consumer can ask for the very version his specific device is running) and so on. I mean: They don´t need a public server. They just need to hand out the source to verified customers on request, but... only one person has to do it and then this person can release it.
sarowie >Yes and no. I'm not sure what you mean by "yes and no" really. It could be a shim that exports enough to userspace to do the work. For I2C etc they could just use the userspace interfaces for those subsystems. You'd be able to see what it's doing with something like strace. It's more likely that their module is handling some stuff like interrupts that aren't easy to do well in userspace. Or maybe it does contain actual driver code because they don't care as all of the expensive R&D went into the stuff that's in the chip itself. Maybe they are looking to mainline the driver.. who knows. The one thing you can be sure of is that it doesn't contain anything that they wouldn't want to be in the public domain. >they use linux here Why not? it's in almost everything else. >AND a documentation how to >flash the kernel onto the device. The Linux kernel is GPLv2. AFAIK GPLv2 does not contain anything about instructions on how to flash or supplying keys so that burned in bootloaders etc will accept the user compiled kernel. You are probably thinking of the anti-tivo stuff in the GPLv3. >(any consumer can ask for the very >version his specific device is running) >and so on. Tagging the release in their local git will be part of their release cycle so it's a piece of piss to generate a copy of the source that the user is requesting. >They just need to hand out the source Companies can make it very hard to get the source and still be within the terms of the license. The number of people you actually have to give the source to goes down a lot when you ask people for their name and address to send a physical copy.
donpalmera In one case I can think of, a developer of an open source library sued a company that used his library in a consumer product. As he was a copyright holder and a owner of one of their product (he used it to prove that is was actually this specific library), he had any right to sue them and no hazard, after winning the case in court, to release the code publicly. About instructions: It deepens on how you read paragraph 3 of the GPL 2: > For an executable work, complete source code ... >plus the scripts used to control compilation > and installation of the executable How fare those installation go? And the right to modify the software. (It can be argued, that locking the programming interfaces by encryption and similarly methods, it would be impossible to use the right to modify the software [on the specific hardware]. Therefor blocking access would invalid the license.) But you are right: There is no explicit requirement, so the court will decide and if in doubt: There is no requirement to supply instructions. Mike posted the boot messages which contain something interesting: > Image Name: Linux-2.6.39+ > Image Type: ARM Linux Kernel Image (uncompressed) An uncompressed image, U-Boot as boot loader and pretty obvious serial interface may mean, that Flir does not care to much about hacking the FlirOne. Similar as canon accepts the hacking of their camera firmware. After all: I think the flirOne is more marketing then the future of thermal imaging. It is a relatively low priced, fancy gadget to introduce people to thermal imaging and the brand Flir. Using Linux is - at least for me - still surprising, as the higher end models use windows. Did flir intended the hacking of the FlirOne? I mean: Nothing better then viral marketing, but is it intentional or accidental?
Is it possible to have two or more cameras to collect data for same viewing area, and divide the resolution, so each camera is doing different parts of the entire frame, and have a collective output?
@mikeselectricstuff I think you're right - those reset / power down pins are most likely to be used by the processor's RBL (ROM Boot Loader). The larger ARMs tend to have their next stage boot loader (e.g U-Boot) in SPI flash. It's a shame that the pins are shared though... :-\
get STM32F429i-DISCO, and you could make color mapping while outputting data to on board 320x240 TFT screen. Is it possible to get only sensor ? if yes, from where ?
Hi, I have one question about FLIR ONE. Can I program the system to read the temperature in my computer and use it to turn on or turn off the heat source? I want to get the feedback few times a second and precisely control the temperature. Is this possible with FLIR ONE?
Is there a GPL copy in the manual? I mean, ignoring open source licenses is a common thing, but still: Where is the source code of the kernel and the documentation how to flash a new kernel onto the thing?
I have 2 Flir One Pros that both refuse to funtion (the same red light is all I get with both of them). They are basically brand new, and the onboard sensors and cameras surely work fine. Is there any way for someone with no electronics background (just build my own drones is the extent of electronics and soldeting I've done) to make use of these $350 dollar paperweights?
You can count me as interested in this project, I would love to get a cheap thermal imaging camera up and running. I would love to see these moduals sell on places like RS. This does put my printer hack to shame, but we all have to start somewhere =-)
Awesome video! I got a lepton from groupon. I wonder if you could provide me anything that I can refer to in order to get the SPI data and synthesis them into image. Thanks!
This is awesome, I purchased a E4.8 because of Mike and I'll get a flir one to start hacking now, I do not have a iphone but that does not look like it will be a problem. I would like to root that linux soc and see whats on there, does that do the initial configuration crosstalk?
Hey! Great videos. And amazing job you are doing tearing down this device. I have heard that the Lepton Core is the same thermal core used in the FLIR Ex Series of cameras, and all Ex Series use the same core but each produce different resolutions which are limited by software. Some guy (maybe you. XD) manage to hack the Lepton Core to make the cheapest Ex camera perform like the most expensive Ex camera (80x60 vs. 320x240). Can this be done to the FLIR ONE? Is it posible for this device to perform in 320x240 resolution??
They need to really deliver a 30-60FPS thermal imaging sensor. Also is that a hardware limitation for the 1 update every 3 frames, or did they get so use to console gaming that they just cannot understand what a low frame rate is , and thus did not get around to fixing it? It seems that flir makes 720p thermal imaging sensors for the military that they are already shipping, why can't they simply take those units and glue a smartphone case to them and then add a connector for smartphones?
Seriously? Sell a military grade system that probably costs thousands of dollars if not more for $350? It costs that much because you don't simply pluck a 720p sensor from a tree. It takes years of R&D cost which they have to get back and the manufacturing process doesn't yield 100% perfect sensors meaning there is extra cost specially when die sizes increase. They probably up the frame rate in that way to make it conform to standard video frame rates when saving as video files. Anyway, even the E4 can only do 9fps. This is not meant for playing call of duty, for most thermal applications, the changes in temperature are relatively slow.
kalhana1 I believe there are government restriction on thermal sensors for sale to the public. they are probably worried that the Taliban are gonna start building home made heat seeking rockets or something.
iknowsstuff Interesting. Does it mean no one can sell discrete sensors? Or do they inflate the price of consumer products? Because you can certainly buy 60fps Flir cameras (not 720p as far as I know), although expensive.
mikeselectricstuff Oh ok, we have a T420 in the uni. But I guess they went through the export license procedure. As it's for research, they must be ok with sending from US. Not sure how difficult it is for industrial use in UK or for individuals.
Could you please try to hack the 30Hz out of this Lepton module? I just cannot affort to buy >100 units to get them.. I would really love if you could find anybody who has a Lepton 3 module with 30 Hz :)
GREAT VIDEO !!! i am from Brazil and i can`t pay 200 pounds on a PureThermal breakout... i got an lepton 3 for a prize from flir, i need to get analog video out for my drone... how to do this spending less money ? can i use this board: Stm32f103c8t6 Stm32 Arm Cortex-m3 ?
2:13 was christmas come early haha. I have no idea what you're doing most the time but it's fucking interesting. How did you learn all this? I understand it comes from experience but did you have a mentor or something because you genuinely know your shit.
use the force look up the very product I mentioned. Still you are right: With this module, a decent priced video glass (not the cheapy mike teared down) and a video modul it would be possible to create an amazing product. (One eye Infrared, one eye visible, switchable to both visible light and both infrared...) But stay fare away from patents. What Mike is doing may interest Flir Marketing and maybe their Semiconductor Supplier. Marketing is happy, because some geeks will buy a FlirOne just get a chip. The Semiconductor Group will also be happy. Either they participate in the FlirOne sales or their chip gets sold separately. But when it goes to patents... I would not wonder when flir was or is holding one or more that describes a head mount thermal image system. And lawyers are less friendly then marketing guys and engineers.
