Fluorescent lamps, electronic vs. glow starters 

I have to say: These closeups of the bimetal starter in operation were pure ASMR. I wouldn't mind watching it for an hour.

I really appreciated this explanation, also learned a lot about fluorescent starters. I am slightly jealous about your collection of those stuff, here in Brazil even fluorescent tubes are "unobtainium" right now. Every light that worn off needs to be replaced by crappy led tubes.

Finally after years (50 or more) of fascination of low and high powered electronic circuitry, your video has finally brought me to the understanding of the functioning of fluorescent lights😄. Your ability to convey knowledge in an absorbable way is remarkable. I love the way your cat treats like a muddleheaded student requiring the occasional encouraging prompt😅

Manually shorting out the starter contacts explains why my dad's retractable shop light had a momentary switch on it that you had to press to start it :) Also as a kid I loved the noises the glow starters make

What an amazing video. I used to work in a hospital, illuminated by hundreds of fluorescent tubes, a significant proportion of which were permanently blinking, obviously using the old style starter. I had a good laugh at the mains voltage breadboard btw.

Excellent video with lots of information and demonstrations. This is why I love this channel! I've understood the principles of how starters work for many years, but watching these bi-metal starters operate simplifies what can seem like a complex circuit. I'd never seen inside of the bulb type of starter before this video, so thank you.

This is one cool video. Watching the contacts come together then separate in the starter I have never seen before this video. You answered many questions on how fluorescent tubes start and once started run bypassing the starter.

Im always impressed by your makro recordings. Ive never seen such in detail video of a neon starter.

I have very unusual fluorescent lamps from old streetcars. They ran at 300V DC in series there, so always two lamps failed, never a single one (or an odd number of lamps). You might know the legendary Tatra T3 trams, but the lights I have are from a K2 tram, which is the articulated version. I initially got them for free from old trams that were sent for modernization (they never had those lights afterwards) a few decades ago. I used a ballast and starter, but later reused electronic drivers from dead fluorescent bulbs. It was the filaments in the bulbs that failed after about 8 years, not the electronic circuit. So I botched it to the big streetcar lights and they work fine ever since then (about 10 years now). The upside is that they light up instantly and do not flicker. I remember dumpster diving for old fluorescent light-bulbs, as I knew that the electronics inside some of them (I focused on Philips 22W) was perfectly fine in driving the 25W tubes used in streetcars. The only problem is, those tubes are quite atypical length (1 meter), which cannot be bought commercially and I have to source them from old streetcars that are being scrapped (commercial lengths are 0,6 meters and 1,2 meters). The problem is that worn out tubes rarely work properly. In streetcars, where they run on 300V DC they work, but not always when I try to run them. Fun fact: The streetcars have a polarity reverser that periodically reverses the polarity on the tubes to ensure even wear of the electrodes. Older series relied on the driver regularly switching the lights between the two "ON" positions that were either side of the "OFF" position, usually at terminus stations. The funny thing is, that I had to completely rewire the streetcar lights in order to make them run. The original 600V rated cables were a super thick rubber insulation with a super thin copper wire inside. Very unusual in comparison with regular 230V "household" stuff. I still have four of those lights in my garage and they work without problems. Another interesting thing: The light fixtures did have resistive heaters running alongside them next to the tube to make sure those tubes would light up even in harsh winter conditions at temperatures of -40°C. Those heating elements were about 1 cm away from the tubes and ran in parallel to them. I do not remember how they were wired, it is about 20 years since I modified them. Maybe even longer. I have some spare electronics drivers and one spare tube that works, but give the reliability, I do not expect to need any of them soon. I wish I had gathered more of those lights and drivers 20 to 15 years ago, when those streetcars and bulbs were massively being replaced by more modern things.

You are the best teacher of electronics I've ever had. Period.

I love ❤️ these longer videos!!!! I learned so much about fluorescent lights from this!!! Thanks 😊 again for sharing your great content!!!

Very nice demonstration. I really like old fluorescent lights because they seem to last a long time, and remind me of better days before all of the far East poor quality parts we are forced to use now with LED lights. My shop has all fluorescent lights but they are North American spec T12 high-output lamps, with a more complex ballast. These ballasts have been unavailable for years. I have been removing the potting compound and replacing the worn out metal film capacitors in them to keep my lights working.

I always enjoyed the glow of starters and sometimes removed the cover to see the glow. They also make a nice christmas lights blinker circuit.

In the '60's and '70's I had some florescent 2' and 4' tube fixtures. They all used big heavy ballasts and starters. The starters had a hole in the top of the can where you could see the light from the the electrodes arcing as it started the tube. If the tube wouldn't light and there was no glow from the hole, you knew the starter was bad.

Some very old fixtures had a manual preheat switch. I have also seen one model of stater that used half-wave rectification to saturate the ballast, rapidly heat then cut off to hit the tube with a whopping great spike.

As allways very interesting and good explained! Wonderfull video from the "Start"! Fluorescent Tubes are forbidden in germany since september 2023. You can only use old ones but not buy new ones.

I love your videos! Every time you post a video it makes my day complete! (especially when its about older glas tube based electronics)

I absolutely love your long videos. I was always thinking the capacitor is for interference suppression, I learned something new. Thumbs up 😎

The starter closeup is the best thing I saw today on the internet. Since childhood I wondered how it worked. These tubelights were used at home when I was small. Once a starter failed and what I did was pulled out the bulb from starter and inserted a small cherry and it actually worked.

Huge thanks for showing how flouresent lamp starter works!

Your channel is awesome. All the various topics you cover and all the detailed explanations are outstanding. ❤

cool video thanks! never thought in depth about these lights but in awe of how cool the inner workings of a seemingly mundane device are, thanks for your work, keep up the great work!

👍 Nice investigation of the classic fluorescent starting system - something from my childhood times. Thank you for sharing! 👏

Wow... The close up view of the starter was great!

It's so nostalgic to hear and see the flickering of the starting lamps. It was part of my childhood and was always kind of hypnotic to see them starting!

I like the in depth videos you make! I already know how those fluorescent lamp circuits work but nice for others to learn this (now ancient) technology. I like these kinds of lamps because they are pretty clever!

It took me years, to fully understand how flourescent lights worked. This video shows very clearly how they work. Brilliant.. I always thought that the capacitor in the starter, was to quench the spark across the bimetallic contacts and provide interference supression. Which would explain why it is missing in an electronic starter. Now I have to figure how some flourescents can be dimmed. Some I have come across needed special tubes with an extra filament in them. But I have seen others that use standard (UV) tubes. I worked at sea and my first ship had DC 110v mains. there was a single flourescent fitting over the projector screen, in the mess room. It had to be started with a push switch. (No AC mains).

Awesome informative video. I became nostalgic coz my childhood was with these fluorescent tubes & myself always tinkering the circuitry of them to understand the usage of ballast & starter!

Its such a wonderfully reliable design. Fair due to the people that developed this and made it so reliable.

I really loved that blinking, also the characteristic sound 🤗

what an incredible video! I'm very happy that you made another video about something that I like so much, about a type of lamp that I like the most (which is why my profile photo is a narva starter)

Hey, this electronic starter is made in my country, Mauritius, thought we did not manufacture anything over here . . .

I like the in-depth video. Learned a lot thanks to you.

Cool post. Clear and well presented. Vibrators from old tube radios vs. solid state replacement which is usually built into the old can. Some self-rectify. Interesting study.

Dobrá práce, moc hezké video. Konečně vím, co je v těch elektronických startérech. 👍

Very interesting. I always wondered why the lamp flickers at start up, but never wondered enough to investigate a starter. The simple mechanic principle with the bimetal strip is absolutely awesome. Its a game of hazard - but sooner or later, it will trigger the lamp... Great content!

Thank you, I have long wondered about the old tube starters.

Your macros of the igniter are awesome! This should be a reference!

Thank you for providing us with great content!

Excellent video as always. I learnt a lot. Thank you for sharing this.

I accidentally learned how this works when I was a boy (maybe 10-11 years old) and used to play with starters and iron ballasts connected to batteries or small power supplies from toys. The iron ballast gave me some electric shocks when I disconnected the power supply. I got intrigued why it happened while disconnecting (insted of connecting) the power supply, until I learned what an inductor is and how it works.

Like you just showed with the traditional starter in series with a lightbulb, that´s how we simulated a bonfire for a school theater stage on a budget

Absolutly tremendous pics, first time in mi live I se in this tremendous way this process of turn on FL lamp !

Danke! Thanks! Nice explained+bloody long = best Never seen this series of tubes or this parallel configuration with ballast and the other tube with inductive ballast + capacitor...

i did ask for such video before , thank you so much , you are the best keep going

A bit late for halloween now, but using a fluro starter in series with an incandescent bulb produces a nice "scary" looking faulty light, ruins the starters, and probably the bulb too, but a neat effect for cheap, or at least it used to be 'til standard bulbs and starters went up in price... :P (EDIT: And of course, such a thing was demonstrated in the vid had I waited to comment!!)

Thanks man, learnt heaps from this one

Once Again fundamental and well explained video

whoa.. those oldschool starters look cool inside :O

Kudos for the close up Bi metallic stuff !...cheers.

Thanks, it's really interesting and well explained

I have never seen a screwdriver with a resistor(?) inside of it. Very interesting!

Thank you !!! Thank you ! A very nice video with the best kind of explanation of one of the most useful electric appliances... Too bad, however unfortunately, that it came at a time when those tubes are replaced by LEDs...

That was really interesting. Thanks.

The capacitor in the starter is set to reduce sparking on the contacts. This way they last longer.

When I was at school in the 1980s, money in the educational system was so tight, we were limited to one light starter per classroom (all old-style glow starters). Every afternoon in the Winter, somebody would be given the task of climbing on desks, reaching up and inserting the starter into each light fitting in turn to start the light. It sounds crazy today (even more so, considering the temporary blinding effect of the tube bursting into life while you were standing precariously on a desk), but it undeniably kept the price of school meals low across the county, so maybe it was actually worth it ..... After I left university, one of my friends lived in a flat with a faulty starter in the bathroom light, which had to be twisted in and back out again to make the light come on. I guess the faulty starter must have been short-circuit.

Very useful and interesting knowledge.

Loved the video.

Really nice!!! My humble thanks.

one would say so easy device but the reality is: it is quite complicated. And the cherry on the cake is the way you described everything - astonishing! Diki moc pane

Super fascinating! I always wondered how the old starters worked. I am curious here in 120v land, can you run a tube with just ballast and starter like you can in 230v places? I don't know why I always thought they had to use a transformer too to step up voltage...

Back in the old days of the 1980s, there was a diy Christmas tree decoration in the house where the bulb in the lamps had a random flashing switch made of a starter of fluorescent lights in series. It looked cool and the crackling noises interrupted the radio :)

*Nice explanation ❤❤*

Veľmi pekné video s vysvetlením princípu činnosti žiarivkového osvetlenia a video mi vôbec neprišlo nejako veľmi dlhé, takéto aspoň pre mňa zábavné a poučné videá kľudne môžu byť aj dlhé a aj tak neprestanú baviť, lebo je tam spústa zaujímavých a užitočných informácií a tiež tu boli pekné experimenty a zaujímavé závery vyplývajúce z týchto experimentov. Tiež sa mi veľmi páčil ten záber zblízka na ten štartér, ako sa pri zapálení tej dútnavky pekne k sebe tie elektródy približovali a potom výboj zhasol a nastalo nažeravenie žiarivky a potom jej zapálenie, toto bolo v tomto videu tiež pekne ukázané.

Very interesting! I have seen ring lights with a magnifying glass in the middle (For working on small things) and they just had a push button you had to hold a few seconds to start it. It makes sense now :)

Great video.

Every horror movie scene only uses these lamps

My grandparents had a new-fangled flourescent fixture installed at their house shortly after WWII finished. There was a momentary button below the switch on the wall for starting.

Very interesting!! I've always been fascinated by FL starters and ballasts

awesome video. i love fluorescent lights 9:25 the one made in Poland is actually manufactured by Philips/Piła

Nice info, thanks :)

I've done some testing with some Hid bulbs, and these seem to start the bulbs!! 😀

Very nice sir 👍

I love the glowing eyes of Catculator.

While the capacitor does have an interference suppression function, my thinking is that is not its main reason for existence. It doesn't have nearly enough value to keep the contacts closed briefly, that's accomplished simply the the thermal mass of the bimetallic strip. I think the main reason for the capacitor is to route the high voltage starting kick from the inductor around the gas tube, so it doesn't conduct and draw current away from the lamp.

I have some old flourescent lamps where the on/off switch is a push-on/push-off but you need to push and hold to ignite the lamp. I guess the power button has two switches in it - one in series with the mains and one parallel with the tube.

Finally on the topic....gas discharge lamps.....stupid LEDs destroyed the market..

The wiring system you talk about is, I would guess, some variation of the TN-C system, where Neutral and Protective Earth is the same conductor

Nice video. Thanks for explaining something not obvious and not written everywhere. Your assumptions looks perfectly correct. What the threshold voltage of jc1? Thanks

My grandpa used the old style flashers to flash his string of incandescent xmas lights

Я всегда впечатлялся работе люминесцентной лампы. Вы только посмотрите на то, как она зажигается! Лампа будет мигать до момента, пока фаза сети не совпадёт с фазой выброса из дросселя, тогда напряжение удвоится и начнется свечение ртутного газа, находящегося внутри колбы газоразрядной лампы. Когда мне было 9 лет, я скопировал схему лампы, которая находилась в коридоре. Я собрал аналогичную лампу из деталей, которые были принесены отцом с работы. Я был очень рад, когда моя лампа засветилась. Я отдал её в подъезд на первый этаж.

Excellent

4:57 thats a good close up portion. I will use this to make a boot animation for Android phones and send it to the Android Community. They can use it with costom roms.

Tinga tinga ting, it feels as if the starter bulb has a mind of it's own. Like someone using a striker to start a fire

What's interesting is that 220 Volts fluorescent lamps basically have the same set up as 110 Volts ones (some 110 Volts AC fluorescent lamps use special autotransformers to provide necessary arc voltage to the longer fluorescent tubes, namely 32 - 40 Watts varieties, of course and keep the filament cherry red hot so the electrode wear is lessened somewhat), namely the inductor ballast acting like a variable reactive resistor to maintain sane arc voltage so fluorescent tubes don't have too much current flowing through which is naturally bad. As for the relaxation oscillation, DC would work best, and try 1 to 100 uF 250 Volts DC electrolytic capacitors and you would see it rhythmically blinking.

When I have a starter with welded contacts I connect it to a 10A power supply and blow the short apart. I was always under the impression that the capacitor was to reduce RFI, since a fluorescent tube is effectively an arc lamp. If the capacitor is shorted I cut it out of circuit.

Eco-Friendly or Harmful stamps can be more volatile than a “Freon”.

Glow starter closeups are kinda beautiful. I used to work for an emergency lighting business where we converted these fittings with inverter modules and ni-cad batteries for escape lighting during normal mains failure. All gone to LED now of course.

v interesting how things have changed in a short time

Thanks!

I remember rubbing the tube with a cloth to get them to start😂

Thank You mr Dan for this video! I really like old fashion fluorescent tubes! Only neon, blinking starter, it makes it... magic! Do you have any other types of those tubes? Like transparent or high power ones? Can you make a video with low pressure sodium lamps and another arc lamps?

thank you

I have found out if you bring the gate of an SCR briefly to a negative voltage you can force the SCR off.

thanks a lot you are the best

It would be nice to dig out your Geiger counter and test the old starters. Some modern starters claim they are not radioactive. This suggests some older ones were radioactive! Probably to keep the gas ionised, lowering the striking voltage.

It's the neon lamp that makes that ding sound? I always wondered

Even a simple lamp has a lot of technology in it and most people have no idea.

Another factor in how long time is need for the fluerscent tube will ignite is the degre wear of fluorescent tube itself, since the value of the ignition voltage increases with the level of wear. And also the ignition voltage is increases by the temperature of the environment has decrease. Permanent welding of the starter electrodes occurs most often if the number of ignition attempts is too many times in a row, which indicates a higher wear of the tube or a very low ambient temperature. The import of fluorescent tubes from Russia will not really happen again, except that we would find ourselves in a time when all semiconductors burned out, which is not so improbable. However, the import of other commodities as it was many decades will continue from Russia, whether someone wants it or not :)

Nice !.