Yes, the joys of finding quality content. I am an aviation and motoring buff, and although not always 100% accurate (is anyone?), this channel very seldom disappoints. Ruairidh, thank you very much. The quality of your research truly shines through.
Hi there! I live in the area where the 152 and its engines where built. A big reason why the 152 never got into production was, as far as I know from the Verkehrsmuseum Dresden, a massive cost overrun and the Soviet Union not giving a certificate since it rivaled its own planes and thus also not having interest in the 152. Thank you for making this video about the 152! It's nice to see a local achievement talked about.
"When something goes wrong on an American Rocket, they have one button to blow up the rocket. In Russia we have two buttons, one to blow up rocket and one to blow up scientist who built the rocket" From a Great Jimmy Cagney movie about the cold war called "One-Two-Three"
I think the arrival of the Tupolev Tu-134 pretty much ended the Baade 152 project. It could carry the same number of people, and was definitely a more reliable plane, too.
I never thought that the 152 was derived from the 150. But the stuff you are providing is convincing. btw., the plane was never called Baade 152 but always simply “152”.
Comment, more comments, comment. Hey, algorithm, let's hear more from this guy... Good job. I had previously heard of the airframe, you added some new details. Live long and prosper!
Note that the East German flag carrier, "Deutsche Lufthansa", should not be confused with the West German flag carrier, uh... "Deutsche Lufthansa". They're definitely not the same There's a model of this plane, with a plaque detailing some of the history, in the lobby of Dresden airport. The Elb-Flugzeugwerke also still exist and are part of the Airbus group now. If I am not mistaken, they do maintenance work on the A380, and freight conversions of older Airbus jets.
Ah, that would be reason for Australian A380s being seen in Dresden recently, even though no Australian airline has ever had scheduled flights to that city.
Reminds me of how a similar confusion still exists between Air China (of mainland People’s Republic of China) and China Airlines (of Taiwan, Republic of China).
There was even a BMW in Münich and one in Eisenach. Lawsuits from Munich forced the rogue Eisenach branch to rename themselves to Eisenacher Motoren Werke. They even kept the same badge but changed the colours to white-red instead of white-blue.
A German pilot on a Lufthansa Flight coming into Berlin from America radioed the tower in German , this is what happened "Lufthansa flight, you are an international flight and must contact the tower in English." "I am a German Pilot, flying a German Airline landing at a German Airport, why must I speak English" There was silence until a voice with a British Accent came over the radio "Because you lost the war, mate"
No, not because they lost the war, because the USA hégémony at end WW2: the USA had never war destructions on they continental territory and was so the great winner from the war...winner in business and politic influence more than as fighter...the result:before ww2 did ALL european countries (except UK...) use only metric in aviation for speed and altitudes...after ww2 the only who continues to use only metric was the USSR (inclusive DDR)...
Tiny point: Aircraft at 5:57 is a Tupolev TU-134, with it’s distinctive rear-mounted engines, not a TU-124 (which had it’s engines in the wing roots). Otherwise an excellent video.
Als Kind hatte ich eine 152 als Plastikbausatz.Fand die Maschiene toll,habedamals aber nicht gewußt was sich darum abgespielt hat bzw. Mit welchen Problemen die Erbauer zu kämfen hatten.Wurde dann ja auch nichts darüber weiter veröffentlicht.Heute weiß man,dass die Sache von der SU nicht gerne gesehen wurde,so kam es dann auch zum aus für die Luftfahrtindustrie in der DDR.Danach wurden Maschienen aus der UDSSR eingesetzt.
kind of a shame it didn't work out better, its a very handsome 'early jet age' aircraft; like the early Boeing 707 concepts that were just a B-47 Stratojet with a passenger cabin.
The development of high speed, strong, engine-podded, swept-wing aircraft was a very complex integration issue. After WW II, Boeing invested a lot of resources in creating their own high speed wind tunnel to research the engineer challenges involved. Highlighting this point, it wasn't until Boeing shared this research in the mid-60's, that the USSR was able to build efficient swept-wing podded engine aircraft. Prior to this, they mostly placed engines in the fuselage or on the tail. All of this is written about in the excellent book "Wide-Body: The Triumph of the 747" by Clive Irving. I highly recommend it if you have any interest in the subject. You can't put it down.
@@Keckegenkai two things: change your name to Karen. This discussion is about aircraft and it's for adults, not woke SJW Karens like you. Delta Charlie.
Glazed noses on Soviet airliners were for navigation by sight and using maps for landmarks, as navigational aids were very scarce in Russia, only present near larger airports. It didn't matter if they were used as civilian airliners or for military purposes. The difference between military and civilian use was very thin anyway.
This video claimed the OKB-1 150 was comparable to other bomber designs at the time, including the B-52. BUT... I looked up info on the OKB-1 150 and the B-52, and it appears these two bombers are not actually comparable. Engines B-52H: 8 × Pratt & Whitney TF33-P-3/103 turbofans, 17,000 lbf (76 kN) each B-52A: 8 × Pratt & Whitney J57-P-1W turbojets (or -1WA or -1WB) of 10,000 lbs. thrust each dry, 11,000 lbs. thrust each wet (water injection) OKB-1 150: 2 × Lyul'ka TR-3A , 49.05 kN (11,025 lbf) thrust each Bombs B-52H: 70,000lbs max B-52B: 43,000lbs max OKB-1 150: 13,230lbs max Service Ceiling B-52H: 50,000 feet B-52B: 47,000 feet OKB-1 150: 41,000 feet Max speed B-52H: 650mph B-52B: 630mph OKB-1 150: 603mph Ferry Range B-52H: 10,145 miles B-52B: 7,350 miles OBK-1 150: 2,800 miles The B-52 is significantly bigger, faster, flies significantly higher and farther, and carries significantly more payload. What am I missing? Data sources: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-52_Stratofortress en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKB-1_150 www.456fis.org/RB-52B_STRATOFORTRESS.htm
The concept, pioneered in the West by the B-47, of a tandem main undercarriege in the fuselage centre line, complemented by two small outriggers at either wing tip for balance. That makes all threes designs essentially similar.
You´re welcome! Two other important aircraft with this undercarriage concept are the British Harrier and the American U2 Spy Plane. Interesting exercise for the near future: check all similar designs in different countries, and see which one came first. Regards.
One Pirna 014 jet engine is on display at the Verkehrmuseum Dresden too. And one Pirna 014 was mounted on the back of a truck and used as a special fire engine for fires at high pressure gas tubes to blow away the flames and thus extinguish the fire. PS: Pirna is the name of one neighboring town in the southeast of Dresden. The jet engine was named after the town, because the construction bureau responsible for the jet engines was located in Pirna. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Pirna_014_im_Verkehrsmuseum_Dresden_2010-08-10.jpg
Still lots of errors. The Germans taken to the USSR were not "granted clemency", they were forced to work on penalty of being tortured and executed if they didn't. The aircraft would never be called "OKB ". OKB would be the name of the design bureau, the aircraft becoming -. etc. etc.
It was not only planes that where made for quick mobilization in case of war. East Germany was dotted with similar small comunities, around 5000 inhabitants in standard houses of concrete that had narrow rectangular windows, which could be transformed to pillboxes in a hurry. These communities where spread around East Germany with an even distance. This is many years back now. I don't know what the former East looks like today. But back then they where prepared for war in an instant.
Deutsche Lufthansa was West German. The Hansa name and trademark was applied not just to aircraft(adding the word "Luft", meaning "Air" ahead of the Hansa name), but also appeared on record as the brand was distributed by BMG(Bertelsmann Musikgruppe GmbH) which had Bony M. on its label.
@@Taschenschieber Okay, but I always believed that Hansa was West German as it was more a commercial operation, while the communist East Germany frowned on commercial enterprise.
@@jwenting The B-45 was a straight wing, tricycle geared, with jet engines built into the wings and a 1,000 mile range. The Baade 152 was a high wing, with four jet engines in pods on a swept wing, bicycle gear with outriggers which was much more similar to the B-47. Given that the original concept by Baade when working for the USSR closely followed the development of the B-47 one cannot help to wonder where he gained his 'inspiration'. Granted the B-47 was slightly longer but there were too many similarities to be a coincidence. Of course the Soviets would never infringe on the aircraft design of another country - - - Oh wait, there was the Tupolev Tu-4 which had a remarkable resemblance to the B-29, hmm . . .
@@denali9449 Both B-47 and Baade 152 were based off the German advances in aerodynamics. Now if you wanna play the who copied who game, consider this: the first jet with engines on the underwing pylons flew 6 months before the B-47 first flight. It was the Soviet Il-22. Leveraging your logic, B-47 copied Soviets.
@@sergeychmelev5270 First flight is not the place to look in a case of industrial espionage. Rather we should look to the design timeline. Ilyushin was directed to start the design of the ill-fated IL-22 on 02/12/1946. What would become the B-47 started with a concept in 1943, a formal RFP in 1944 and the final design of the swept wing, pylon mounted engines and bicycle gear with outriggers during the winter of 1945/46. It was then known as the Model 450. The USAAF ordered construction of two prototypes in April of 1946 to be known as the XB-47. So if I understand you correctly, in the winter of 1945/46 the Boeing folks copied a Soviet design which was not started until February of 1946. Okay, that makes sense. BTW, the design of the IL-22 was not all that good, it was scrapped less than two months after first flight for failure to meet the design performance requirements and the B-47 (with all its issues) flew for another 30 years. If anything, the only copying here would be by Boeing after seeing the results of the German swept wing designs in May of 1945. Additionally, I believe that the German Junkers JU 287 (circa 1944) was the first plane to use the pylon mounted jet engines even if its wings were swept in the 'wrong direction'. So Germany was the true forerunner in jet aircraft design, as well as rocketry, and automobiles, and internal combustion engines and roadways and, damn, the list goes on and on and on . . .
@@denali9449 Now if I understand you correctly, the Baade 152 that started being designed in 1953 was somehow copied from B-47, even though the Soviets already implemented multiple designs with the same features years before that. Do you see why your claim is as ridiculous as mine? Also, Ju-287 had its engine pods attached directly to the wings, just like Me-262 and He-280 - no pylons. The problems with Il-22 were unrelated to the engine position, so still - it was the first one to fly with this design feature.
This is a classic case of “I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy” but I found the story compelling, so I’ll repeat it here. An old friend of the family came from Dresden, fleeing East Germany shortly before they put up the Berlin Wall. After the end of the Cold War he returned home and got reacquainted with an old classmate who he found out had joined the Stasi. According to him, the Stasi did investigate the crash and established that it was in fact sabotage. The ones responsible, he claimed, were the KGB. The Stasi was ordered to drop their investigation and to destroy any evidence they came across. Now this is heresy of course, but if there is no truth to it, then there should be a full fledged legitimate investigation in the records, right?
Not sure about the time frame but there is some similarity with US strategic bombers and maybe it wasn't a total failure. Thanks for I never knew about about this plane, so what else is out there??
great video. i recall reading elsewhere that the authorities were furious at the baade 152 being built and the money spent. this is why the already completed examples were scrapped. they saw it as duplicated effort and that russian was best & we are having tu124 / 134 & that is the end of that. for more baade 152 stuff : www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/554/The-Baade-152.aspx
Outstanding content and narration on an interesting subject. You should have way more subscribers than you do. Maybe slow down narration - it works for me as a native to the Queen's, but rapid fire for those that are not?
Meanwhile, West German firms Hansa and VFW built small numbers or their respective business jet and a short-haul airliner, neither of which were built in significant numbers. The West German airline industry did not take-off until it partnered with Airbus.
No, initially it was indeed called Lufthansa as well, as you see in the footage of the video. Both, east and west Lufthansa, took their name from pre war Luft Hansa. Neither the east nor the west Lufthansa were direct successors of the pre war Luft Hansa except by the name. Anyway, when it became apparent that there will be a name's fight for Lufthansa which the east Lufthansa was likely to lose a new brand and company was founded, called Interflug and all east Lufthansa assets merged into it.
At 5'41'', you state that Lufthansa is an East German carrier. I'd raher say Interflug, as the rights on the name Lufthansa were held by the RFA, which founded a new company after WWII.
