The T-38 was the most fun you could have with your clothes on. A little intimidating at first until your brain caught up to the jet and the lightbulb above your head started to glow, and then you felt like you were committing a felony whenever you flew it, especially on solo rides. The Tweet was a flying go-kart which was a different kind of fun, but the 38 was an Indy 500 car. Glad I went through UPT in 1982 when we were still routinely doing maneuvers and rides that were eventually yanked from the syllabus for being "too dangerous". I learned more about airmanship and how to think like a pilot in 3 dimensions from that plane than anything else.
@@ronrogers well I'd love to talk to u . I started out. In the pe docks at cb in 1971 on 38s.worked my way up. Brenda and I did 21 years together. About half of that on 37 38 and the f5. 2516102611 if u can find the time.tks
Great video, lots of memories. I was 69-04 Vance AFB. Love the 38. In my 5 years in went from 38s in Vance AFB to the U10B flying in the Mekong Delta and finished up in the C130E out of Pope AFB in NC. What a range of aircraft and performance.
Ron I can tell you from the first time I set eyes on the T-38 I fell in love ! I first saw one on static display at a fair here in Florida. I must have spent at least an hour walking around it and taking everything in about the design and beautiful curves. I think the T=38 in one of the sexiest planes to ever fly and if I ever hit the lottery I plan to buy one. Beautiful is a understatement as it's beyond words. I also love it just like you. Thanks for talking about it.
I agree it was a great airplane to fly. Was at Reese AFB in class 67 F. Also flew it years later at Laredo. There I picked up the second to last T-38 at Palmdale.
I was a PAR radar technician at Dyess from 71-74. Our radar had trouble seeing the T-38’s on final. I watched thousands of them shoot precision approaches in the 3 years I was there. I called them “little white rockets”..
@@peterroseman3699 When I arrived at Dyess in 71, we didn’t have a spectrum analyzer to see what the signal looked like coming out of the transmitter. When we got one a few months later, we could see that the magnetron was “double-moding”, which means the energy was split into two bands. The receiver could only detect one band or the other. The rest of the time I was there, we kept a good magnetron in it and it worked much better.
I was stationed at Randolph from 72 - 73 as a newly minted ground navaids tech. (Maintained the Localizer and Gide slope transmitters as well as the TACAN and Marker Beacons.) It was a lot of fun to watch the T-38 ops. Approach for 15L was was just to the east of the apartments that we lived in in Universal City.
What a wonderful, nostalgic video. I was in the Air Force in the '70s (as an instrument/autopilot technician primarily on the F-111) and thought the fun would never end. I met so many great, fun people - some lifers, some in-and-outs - and experienced so many interesting things ... but most of all, was around planes. I've always thought the T-38 was sleek, compact and underappreciated. Thanks again for the effort.
72-08 Craig AFB. Still can’t get over the fact that we were flying that rocket with barely over 100 hours total time. Sadly, it’s been so long ago that I have little or no memory of how it was to fly it. I went straight from the 38 into C-141’s by choice, and more or less put the yanking and banking behind me in favor of keeping the whitecaps out of the First Class martinis! But there is little that I wouldn’t give for an hour in a T-38 today. We could not carry cameras in the airplane when I was in UPT, because someone had tossed a Nikon through canopy the year before. Check out “The Year of 53 Weeks “ here on RU-vid
Ron, I was in 71-08 class loredo, Texas. You hit it when you said T-38 was fun. I enjoyed the whole time in flight training. I was a Marine aviator in the air force pipeline. I was put as training officer when not flying. Great guys in a tough time in history. Thanks for your presentations. Looking forward. Tony
GCA radar maintenance at Reese AFB 66-68 here, we had T-37 and T 38's and I enjoyed watching them take off with full burners on in the early morning hours looking out the side door of the radar trailer on the hardstand. For a young airman this was a real treat and I loved my time there. Being halfway down the center runway just a couple of hundred feet from runway center line was a great viewpoint. Also enjoyed when an F-4 stopped by on a ferry flight. When it left it would give us an air show takeoff.
Ron, Like you, the T-38 is my favorite military aircraft. Though, I only knew it from afar. When I was about 7 or 8 years old, (1973-1974), as an amazing SURPRISE, my parents drove me all the way to Ottumwa, IA, (about 2 1/2 hrs) for an air show. Two notable performers were Bob Hoover and the USAF Thunderbirds, in T-38’s. Oh my, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I will never forget that day as long as I live! 😁 Thank you so much for sharing this story!!! 👍🏼
I know these are fuel to noise converters, but I've always thought that for purely aesthetic reasons this is the prettiest military airplane ever produced
Being an Army Aviator our graduation fly bye was 33 Hueys with 2 IP’s in the lead an trail with a Huey on each side, 2 students in each Huey, no IP’s and an IP with 2 Students in the trail. We could reach out and touch a tree! About 15 of us went to the 101st Airborne and started to really learn to fly. One night mission with the 101st we moved a battalion of 800 plus troops with 45 Hueys and 3 lifts to get the job done. 200’ above the highest obstacle, night terror mission, no NVG’s back then, one to two rotor disc separation at 90 kts. No Huey had issues that night, flight suits soaked and us worn out after that mission. Piece of cake now with ANVIS 9 and better NVG’s.
I was a medical washout at Laughlin in 1981. Several solo rides in the '38, including one solo formation ride. Passed the contact checkride. Almost done. Sigh. Fantastically beautiful and fun airplane to fly.
@@ronrogers Super great video! Thanks so much. Our class name was "Wings or Bust", with a double entendre on the word "Bust." But the staff made our "Wonder Woman" figure have a shield in front of her for our class shoulder patch. Good times when such young invulnerable guys aren't fully mature yet. That and "carrier landings" in the O club on Friday evenings on the tables sin there. No accidents when I was there, but I heard that after I left, one of my classmates became a T-38 FAIP. One night he and his student were doing a night formation ride. They were on the wing, and lost sight of lead, shortly after takeoff. But they hit the ground before they could get oriented after losing sight of lead. I suppose it was good I wasn't there when it happened (especially for my wife's sake). I still remember his face. Super nice guy. I remember one solo ride I was on. Back in the pattern I did three touch ang goes before attempting my full stop. So after doing the air braking, I lowered the nose and got on the wheel brakes. Good thing I landed on the left side of the runway (alternating sides, with 3000 feet behind the previous guy), because as soon as I tried to brake, I was instantly on the right side of the runway, as I had no left wheel brake. Had I landed on the right side of the runway, I probably would have been in the weeds at 80 + mph. So then I tried my right brake and full rudder deflection, but that only got me down to about 70. We weren't supposed to do this, but I didn't know what else to try, so I engaged nosewheel steering at about 70 (instead of at 15 mph). The plane shuddered, but I kept it straight. I then used my right brake with nosewheel steering to keep it on the runway and gradually slow down. It took almost the whole runway, and I turned off at the last taxiway. I then shut it down on the taxiway, and waited about 45 minutes for a very pissed off tech sergeant to show up with a tug. Turned out I should have pumped the left brake pedal a few times to get pressure, which WAS in the Dash 1, but which I hadn't remembered. But there was no time to think about anything anyway. No time to fear even, just to do what I had to, to get the plane stopped, and not die. Back in the flight room, one classmate there was highly amused about my rather high-pitched voice after my radio call about no left brake. Important lesson learned, that day. Thanks again for the super video. Brought back all kinds of memories. I'm building a 200 HP fast retract homebuilt. Not a T-38, but it will do "Gentleman's Aerobatics."
I was a B-52 radar nav 1968-73 then left my crew in Guam to go to Willy. Started off in a T-37 procedural trainer then straight to the T-37. Puked on my dollar ride but OK after that. But some guys couldn't get past that and washed out. Loved the T-38. I always thought each AF pilot should be issued their own! Great video. Thanks!
Hi Ron, great video. I went from being a mechanic at Fred Varney’s Getty Station on Garland St in Bangor Maine to flying T-38s in less than a year. I still can’t believe it over 40 years later. What a ride it was!
Ron, thanks for sharing. Class 87-06 @ Willy. Final assignment was flying T-38As at Tyndall as Adversary Air for the F-22. Flying over the Gulf of Mexico at 1.2 mach rocked!
They fly the T-38's over my place quite often. But having the B-2 come over at 1500 feet is very cool. They can be very silent passing over. Very cool video on the T-38 , thanks.
Thanks, Ron! One of my flight instructors had recently retired out of the USAF. The T-38 was a firm second place for his favorite plane to fly. He too loved the handling, acceleration, overall performance. When I found out he had F-5 time also, I asked if those were more fun. He said they actually were not, as the extra weight and drag impeded the performance compared to the T-38 in his opinion.
Great trip down memory lane Ron. I was one year ahead of you in the USAF (Willy 73-05) and UAL. For me, the T-38 was my favorite aircraft. Nothing else comes close. I don't know about you, but I think that I hyperventilated on every solo takeoff.
Fantastic video and memories Ron, I’m only Civil (737) but these memories of classic military aircraft are fascinating and can’t believe flown by guys like yourself with 100 hrs initial experience, all the best and I enjoy your uploads , Simon (U.K)
I love the T-38 and F-5. I can't imagine why the T-X program did not have a two seat variant of the F-20 in contention. I guess it would show up the modern industry if such an old design could win the bid. When you see the new trainer next to a T-38 it looks rather dumpy.
Great video! My dad was class of 75-06 at Webb AFB in Webb Texas. like you mentioned. he flew the T-37, 38 and others. I have his Helmet and parachute to this day.
Buddy of mine told me the T 38 was a bit of a handful to fly …. Buffeting on the final turn to final approach at 150-155 knots. I fueled the Boeing T 38s when I worked at Boeing. They look very cramped as well…great vid!
You get used to it. As a student you are always struggling to be ahead of the aircraft. I flew it as a chase pilot and it was a joy to fly. Pilot grads should be given a chance to come back and fly it. After gaining some experience, they would feel better about the aircraft, and themselves! I knew some of the Boeing pilots that flew it up at Seattle. If you were not initially trained on it, as was the case with a Navy pilot who flew it, you quickly learned that you could run it out of gas very quickly!
My son in law is an Air Force drone pilot. He never flew the T-38. I don't think he cares. I wanted to fly transports in the Air Force but never got in because of a skull fracture at age 7. The Navy wanted me; regardless unfortunatly I wasn't impressed with their options. ERAU 80 CFIA&I ret.
The Navy said I only had 8 serviceable teeth. That was acceptable but the USAF never cared about my teeth. Apparently they didn't feel that combat degraded to biting the enemy!🤣🤣🤣😁😳
T-38 has always been one of my favorites. I would love to own one but if you gave it to me for free, I still couldn't afford it. The T-37 is a very painful jet to be on the flight line with. My first experience was with no ear protection.
I went through pilot training in 1971, in humid Selma,AL. I recall the T-38 “snowed” on us as we climbed through the teens (altitudes), and briefly selected Full Hot on the cockpit temp control, to dry out the air conditioning system. Did that happen in dry climates?
@@ronrogers my understanding is that it’s airspace limited. I had a friend make it to 1.29M but I don’t know of anyone that’s gone faster. The new intakes are nicer for single engine since they have more thrust, but they are way more susceptible to compressor stalls.
I had a test report on the new inlet but can't seem to locate it again. I did have a problem that was not fully vetted before being introduced. 1.3 M was the limit as I remember. The mass flow through the engines forced the nozzles open at the very high speeds and thereby reducing thrust. But you could always go fast in a dive.
@@ronrogersthat would make sense because it was quite tough to get super fast in level flight. I think we did a slight dive to speed things up on ours. I don’t remember an ops limit on 1.3M but I sure don’t think it would be possible in level flight.
The F-5 has leading edge devices and provisions for external stores. It will also enter a spin, something a T-38 won't do. I am sure there are other differences.
Ron, my Dad was a T-38 IP at Vance AFB around the time you were there in the mid 1970’s. Wonder if you knew him ? Then Major Jon D. Black. We had gone from being stationed in the Panama Canal Zone at Albrook AFB, to Enid, Oklahoma. Quite a change 🤣
By the way Ron I joined the Air Force out of High School an was sent to Weapons School at Lowery AFB, then to Davis Monthan then to Cam Ranh Bay for 10 months and then 8 months at DaNang, F-4C, D, and E models. Back in the States at Langley I was loading Falcon Missiles and Genie Nuclear Rockets on F-106’s then waiting for the Russians to attack.
This You Won't Believe, Here Goes The Fifth Of Dec, 1955 I Walk In Northrop Aircraft Hawthorne Ca A New Employee Eighteen (18) yr. To Work in "Lines Data Group (Lofting) Engineering Dept. With A Clearance Grade 8 No Collage Degree Just My Ability Salving Paradox Mechanical Problem and How They Work Or Should Work ( Performance ) My First Job Was N156,(T38) , F5, And Beginning Of F20' My Sketch Drawing (A Supersize ) F5 . I Also Did Small Jobs On F100, F101, F102, F104, And The Snark SM-62 Intercontinental Cruise Missile . Small Jobs On F100 by North American Super Sabre , F101 Voodoo by McDonnell F102 Delta Dagger by Convair , F104 Starfighter by Lockheed, All These Northrop Was Sub Contractor The T38/F5 Was To Teach Pilot To Fly By The Numbers The Up And Coming F One Hundred Series Air frames Check Six T38 Bill
@@ronrogers I have an Argentinean friend of mine who flew the T 38 C as an IP at Columbus AFB. He told me that most of the Talom crashes happened during the approach/ circuit to land. There was one crash which caught my attention : a FAIP and a Japanese SP crashed after the SP reduced to iddle both engines for 18" during a circling. How could an IP let an overwellmed student to perform so badly?
I would have loved to have owned one if I could afford it. I would have had to have gotten all kinds of ratings first. I actually saw a "White Rocket" fly over Wilmington, Int. (ILM) in North Carolina around 1995. Not sure when they changed the paint scheme. So the number on the ejection seat is the tail number. It was built in 1969? What is the 7083 number?
For a mere million and a half you could have owned one around a decade or two ago. Of course it would have cost another million or so each year to keep it in the air for a few hours! But, as in the Master Card commercial, the cachet would have been priceless!
@@ShadesOClarity a fellow out in CA, I think it was Chuck Thornton, owned several. In fact, his were used in the original Top Gun, as I heard the story told.
@@anthonyvallillo422 I've seen a few F-5s depart from here (MCAS Cherry Point) - probably from either VMFT-402 (Beaufort, S.C. or VMFT-401, Yuma Ariz.). They are Marine pilots who fly adversary engagements. I wanted to ask Ron if he ever flew an F-5 or F-5B (Two-seater) to hear how it stacked up against the Talon.
2:30 you’re not alone there! I don’t have the same appreciation for the old music that you do, but watching ENJJPT 20-01s “Talon Drivers” ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gudGNrbwcus.htmlfeature=shared evokes a similar response from me -and I’m in my late 20s.
Still don't know what's worse... to 1) have only dreamed of flying these aircraft, having never even sat in one or 2) to have actually flown them professionally and have them eventually taken away never to fly them again??? My guess option 2...
@@ronrogers If I ever get rich... hahaha. Got ran over at 10 w/ detached and reattached left ankle so always knew it was a no go for military flying; got PPL tho... Saddly, to this day I occasionally have dreams of being waved in and getting that dollar ride with the unrestricted. Don't know my brain does it, but produces g forces and all; always seem wake up just before T/O or at the best part of the dream... God bless and of course keep the greasy side down...👍
Maybe you wouldn’t know, but I’ve been looking for something to describe the T-38 and how it flew chase on the Shuttle landings. I understand they were actually modified to do it?
Not that I was aware of. We had one with a large speed brake that was used in the Test Pilot School to simulate shuttle approach or other steep profiles, but you could only get a 20 degree approach out of it.
Sir, I have a good PRICE check, showing on, normal normal, good blinker. Seat harness is on and locked, ready to fly, how about you? I still remember the stuff I did with the USAF on that exchange tour. Good times. The T-37 was neat - that thing could pull 5.5+G *instantly* and not hurt the jet whatsoever. You'd black a dude out if they weren't ready in a QUICKNESS. It did however, bleed energy RAPIDLY doing this of course. The T-38 was much more refined. Faster, smoother, STUPID fast roll rate, and just an amazing aircraft. You HAD to be on top of it, because landing was an approach Category E, meaning 150+ knots landing. The bug speed for coming off the perch, as I recall, was 155 kts plus 1 knot for every 100lbs of fuel over 1000. You wanted to pull for that "donut" on the AoA indexer so you'd roll out wings level "on speed" and on AoA for that good round out and flare in landing. Treat that jet well, and you wouldn't have issues. Get complacent, and god forbid, get slow, and you can and would kill yourself if you let things go just a little too far.
On a 90 degree turn to the entry point I would tell my students (in the T-37), "tell me when I can't make the turn ). Normally a mile lead. They would say "now" me, not yet, "now!" nope way too early, they would say can't make it!! Almost on top of the road I would snatch a quick hard pull and roll right out on the road! You have a great memory for the jets!
@@ronrogers Ron I tell ya, as a Marine, I came into the joint tour with a lot of ego, pride, and bravado. We were told we were the best, and I honestly had too much inter-service rivalry shit in the beginning to really be hanging out with those Air Force instructors. They let me know it as well. :) Let me tell everyone else who doesn't know: In AETC or the "training command," a Colonel may as well be god himself. There weren't many, they were all powerful, and you best not get on their bad side. The Col that ran the 47th FTW was a no-nonsense Vietnam-era guy that was near the end of his career but a GREAT leader. He knew *my* CO in the Marines from 'Nam. That's all I knew then, and that Col squared me away quickly. He took me aside, and really helped get me into the way the Air Force "does business". It is definitely different, BUT IN NO WAY INFERIOR, to the way the Navy/Marines do things. Students are still students. Everyone wants to fly some platform they either get, or struggle to get, and they all work hard to do their best. At the end of those 14 months, I had sure learned a lot, grown a lot as an officer and an Aviator, and learned how to speak "Air Force." :) When I went back to the Marines, especially later in Iraq and Afghanistan, being able to more effectively integrate into the conversations and operate like the "purple suit" guy they talk about, was more natural due to my joint tour.
I had a classmate in the aviation ground school in AFROTC who had been Marine enlisted and was going back as an officer/pilot candidate. We used to run together and this guy was really built and we had a lot of fun. Always wondered what happened to him and if he got through training ok. Like with a lot of people, we separated and went our own way and I regret that I was not able to remain in contact with a lot of people I had crossed paths with. Actually, this channel has helped me reconnect with a few so that is great!
@@ronrogers Well, it sounds like there will be a few on the market before too long ;) That would be interesting: how much would it cost to keep a T-38 as a ‘hobby’? I see some videos online about the Viper and do wonder how much maintenance is needed… not to mention the JP - can you even get that as a civilian?There you go, another video :)
@@ronrogers I spoke with an owner of an L-39 Albatross. He said that he had to quickly add another item on the preflight checklist. A passenger with a credit card tied to the flight.
@@ronrogers Thanks. Here in Germany we had an accident I think in the 60ies where the lead of 4 Starfighters flew himself and his wingmen into the ground in airshow training. Imagine you stare at your lead and maybe a split second before you impact you realise what's going on. Or in such a case, would you even realise it before you impact? That's the reason why Germany hasn't had a demonstration team for all those decades, it got banned, and then the Ramstein accident cemented this decision.
@@ronrogers And the US airforce didn't questioned having that demontration team after that incident? Would have realised the last few seconds through their peripheral vision or the leader frantically trying to evade collision? What a horrible horrible way to depart earth. BTW, as an ex airline pilot, what's your experience with passengers misbehaving, freaking out, having mental breakdowns etc. So many Karen videos flooding the internet these days, what's your experience with the phenomenon?
The teams are very important in the US. I think people understand that military flying is dangerous. As far as passenger problems, yes I have had a few. Nothing terribly serious. But I have had people arrested and or removed by the authorities.
