Flying WITHOUT an ASI - The art of flying without an Air Speed Indicator? 

Haha, I didn't see that one coming.

It’s a very valid video Giles, I’m wondering whether the obsession that fellow sub 70/SSDR pilots (inc myself) with ASI’s comes from our instruction on dual machines, I for one was taught to use certain speeds on approach. Whilst with years of flying paragliders I never once had a need for an ASI, never unintentionally stalled etc.

The thing I love about Sub70 and even the NINE, I've never known any speeds, I just fly by feel and bar position.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 indeed your absolutely correct Giles, I tried to use the Hall a couple of times and my landings were abysmal! Flying by feel, attitude and bar pressure gave much better results.

I'm just curious, how was the Hall messing up your landings?

Cheers David, and hopefully some Moors flying for us as well.😁

I love the sound of that!@@GolfFoxtrot22

Hi AL, I hope you have you model aircraft list ready for Santa and have you been good this year? :)

Hi Mike, welcome to the channel and thank you for your thoughts. I completely agree that a VSI and Altimeter are my preferred instruments if I were to have but one device. I've only been flying flexwings for the past 4 years so I only have the likes of yourself that can explain where it has all come from and how our wings have become safe because of the developments of past pilots etc, so I thank you.

Hi Gerry, I'm really glad that the video has helped lift that weight, its why we say relax and let the aircraft doe the work, it knows better than we do. Looking forward to catching up in the new year.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 have a good break, I’m looking forward to next year 👍

Ahh, so maybe that would make a good video for you then, flying without an ASI in GOOPY🤣.

Cheers Ryan, I hope you are still flying safely over there? How is the weather this time of year?

It's finally turned cold here lol. Our true winter months are usually January and February. I can't wait to get back up again. I at least have RU-vid when I can't fly.@@GolfFoxtrot22

@@FLYNRYAN1978 Same here, youtube for the rubbish days.

Hi Tom, have you put a colour scheme together yet? Are you excited?

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I’m thinking either Blue/black or Flourescent green/ black. Out here in nowheresville I want to be visible if I have to be grounded out in the boondocks. Yes, excited. At this point I’m trying to decide on an engine. I’ve been poking around on the Facebook to find out more about the Polini 303 and US spec fuels.

@@tomcoryell Green and black definitely stands out.

Hi Stone, yes you have hit the nail on the head with your comment. Not much to add really.

Hi Martyn, I think we are experiencing the same winds and driving rain. I'll try and speak to the balloons next time they are up.

Hi Lee, are you back on Nights?

Hi. Regarding control check on flex I disagree. Flex pilots often use the airframe to mount equipment, instruments and cameras act. Ensuring full and free movement before leaving the ground I believe to be a good idea. Also if something within the airframe has changed due to hanger rash, heavy landing or missing bolt that wasn't visible during a glance up the wing tip, or was missed, would likely produce a different feel, or indeed an unfamiliar clunk during control checks. For the time it takes, why wouldn't you?

@@helimed01 I agree with you on 'adding cameras and such' (or an ASI LOL) to the control bar. I usually check that after I add the camera to make sure it will clear.

Hi Wayne, I hope all is well? I think the joy of trikes is they talk to you so you get that feedback about what is happening. The GA world has a very structured way of flying ( ex GA pilot myself) so having the speed reference is as important as the wings and harness. Regarding your comment about checking the controls is all about leaving nothing to chance, so a final check as part of the CHIFWAP check is no bad thing as there is no hard should in the sky. I hope your snow goes soon.

Hi Chris, I hope you are well? I bet it was great to have your Dad teach you,, I'm guessing it is Colin. I can't wait for the better weather and longer days.

Hi Kev, if we ever fly together, I'll have to put some tape over your ASI....only joking.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 Noooooooo!!!!!! 🤣

Don't worry, you'll work it out :P Have a good Christmas

@@GolfFoxtrot22 😆 You too! 🎄

Hi Frosty and I wish you a good Christmas as well. Glad you enjoyed it. Did it help in anyway?

Your vids always want me to fly with you have and I be booking some flights in the new year mate 👍

Fingers crossed for 2024 and some flyable weather.

Hi Neil, yes we all like our comfort blanket and mine is my Tacho and GPS. Hope to catch up at some point in 2024.

It is always interesting who has been "that Pilot/s" that have guided us?

Hi Mike, its quite interesting all the little hints and tips we have been given over the years and how they become part of our day to day flying habits. Its a good quote and he did seriously sound like that, well he did at the time anyway :)

Hi Ian, it was good catching up last night and can't wait to see those magical glasses again at Darley Moor.

Hi Edu, I can completely relate to your comment as I flew paragliders and paramotors for over 10 years and I do like your analogy.

Hi Larry, I do agree with you on your "Heavier", I just didn't want to confuse people in the UK that do have to have an ASI as part of the permit approval for their aircraft. I'm sure we'll have time to have a natter at Sun and Fun next year :).

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I am referring to the usefulness of the gauge.

Ahh, is what you mean.

Hi Tony, it is really surprising how many things people want to buy for their machines and then end up not using. :)

Hi Simon, that is a very good factor for the Sub70 side that the speed range is just so small. From HOT to bar fully back is only 8 mph. Thank you for your story about Paul.

Hi Frizzle, good to see you again in the comments section. You comment makes sense and very valid and yes Sub70 does feel a bit Zen but a cool kind of Zen.. I can't wait for the longer night.

Hi Jonathan, good to see you in the comments again and I hope you are well? It is surprising how many people had an ASI and have now taken it off.

Hi Nat, even in the Quik R, it's all about feel. I know of one chap that doesn't even use the trimmer in his Flex, just flies it fully fast.

Great vid👍 When I was training, the instructor only had me check once the ASI coming in for landing, after that it was all eyes on field looking down runway at the appropriate time and feeling the aircraft after that. Have to agree, once you learn your aircraft and how it feels you don't need one. All the best to you and yours in the new year. Cheers

It really is amazing how little we need our instrumentation, it's more of a comfort blanket.

Hi Doug, its amazing how you can tell by feel how fast you are going after a few flights. Do you have any funny instructor stories?

@@GolfFoxtrot22 It is amazing. The human body does ok sometimes. Hmmm, I'll have to think about that one. Mostly I was told to relax, let the wing fly. I tend to under control.

Sorry, I completely forgot to break it as I went straight back up to chase the balloons ;)

Hi Damian, the GPS speed is just so useful for longer flights. I've tried looking for the ETSY location but they seem to have stopped selling the mount, I'll try and find out why.

Hi Ed, I initially mounted my on the bar but I couldn't find a clear air position. The Adam wing really doesn't want to nose down does it?

Hi Steve, that is very true S1303 states an Altimeter and ASI, although I thought a compass would have been just as useful.

SSDR being an exception, where there is no legal requirement for flight instruments

@@chrsfrwll indeed. TIL045, para 3.4 covers it.

Did you get many pints for you ASI Paul? :)

Giles doesn't drink, what doi you think he spends all that saved money on?

Hi Peter, lots of points there so I'll try and comment from my thoughts. I would reconsider the term playing at Sub70 as everything below 600kgs is all recreationally flying, we fly because we want to and for fun. Because it's fun and our hobby, we like customise our aircraft. I'd say that a compass and altimeter with the ability to set the subscale would a good base level. The main point of the video was to show that for a light machine like the PeaBee or the NINE can be safely flown without an ASI. Any GA pilot should be able to fly without an ASI, its part of the syllabus. From my experience a very large proportion of Sub70 pilots are capable and competent. I put this down to the respect and cost of the machines, so they seek out training. I hope that covers most of your points.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 On the basis that I consider that " I am playing in Aircraft up to 5700kg " & sometimes " flying seriously in heavier Aircraft " I don't think I need to reconsider the " playing at Sub70 " remark ;-) As Sub 70 are Recreational Fun Aircraft I am just questioning whether I would enjoy the Sub 70 Experience if I didn't have an ASI to rely on? ( Yes, I have done ASI failure training & it raised my Blood pressure !!! ). Not being that competent on Sub 70 I would prefer to have an ASI but I do take onboard that an ASI might not be essential on a PeaBee, I am not sure I share your opinion that a 'Nine' could be safely flown without an ASI ??? I would imagine the 'Nine' could easily be pushed through it's VNE in a shallow descent/dive? As Sub 70 is a VFR Only Hobby I am not so sure a Subscale Altimeter is essential ( but quite handy ) I would happily rely on a Standard Altimeter with the knowledge of the field elevation being noted in my flightplanning ;-) ( or even rely on the GPS Altimeter as a reference to my flightplanned notes ).

@@peterkelseyferryair2396 I've flown the NINE for about 8 hours and unless you pull it into a steep spiral dive, you can't get close the to VNE. You have to generate a stall entry with power to get it close to VNE (check flight method). You don't need an ASI on a Nine either, the bar position and your attitude gives you all the information that you need.

Hi Eric, do you mean model as in, type of aircraft? If so it is the Flylight PeaBee www.peabee.co.uk.flylight.co.uk/peabee-2/ I hope that helps.

Hi Gayle, I see where you are coming from but to get into those situations where you are getting close to VNE, you have to really get something like the PeaBee really out of shape and ignored all of the signs leading up to it. The Bar position is a very good indicator for speed.

Hi Shane, and that you do with style. Hope to see you in the new year at DM or your strip.

Hi Cameron, that's a really cool story about your instructor, I was trying to visualise the situation happening. I've yet to have a flight in an Autogyro but I do have a friend that has offered so I'm waiting for the flight with eagerness, and I'm sure it will be vlogged. The Pineapples bit did make me chuckle, he sounds a character.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 yes hes a character. This was over 30 years ago when I learned. We were all pretty much having to build our own machines back then. His point about the pineapples was a teaching moment. His point was like yours they can be inaccurate the hall gauge for example at any angle other than straight and level is not going to be perfect. His method was to challange you in every way until he couldnt screw you up any further. So the moment you felt comfortsble hed notice and do something to screw you over. For example quitely put his hand out into the slip stream then yell at you for not holding it straight with rudder or cut the power at any given moment the start yelling at you to raise tension. Gyros had and still have too many accidents. This was and still is largely around difficulties in effective instruction. We have very high wing loading because of the rotor so the feel between a dual and light single seater in stick feel is massive. Back then the two seaters which were few in my country at that time there were 3 were rotax 583 powered machines so the empty weight might be 130kg but add two pilots and you had more than doubled that. We learned first in gyrogliders at our club then some dual powered then single seat transition. Because if you had a singke seater with the sane rotor and engine as the dual machibe the difference was massive. Add to that complications with hand winding rotors etc. Now he had us do all this and he test flew our home built gyros when I first met him he'd already test flown 240 home built gyros. Instead of getting rid of ground hops in single seaters and gyrogliders when two seat powered became available he just added the dusl power into the mix. It worked. I became a gyroglider instructor latter but almost every instructor rejected it (no profit for one it is a club thing). But Terry knew it was a powereful trsining tool because towed behind a car with no engine once solo it was lighter than any singke seater so stick feel was indentical and you learned everything about managing rotors by hand and eye. It worked with him Training in the club over 16 years instructing in the gyroglider I never saw a single rotor bent in training. People would do stuip things like fly into powerlines occassionally refuse to make some modification he insisted on their precious new machine and wed hear theyd gone on their own and smashed up a machine. At the other club i gyroglider instructed at they didnt have a powered two seater and although id advise them on solo in the glider to get trsining with terry many refused as it was hours drive away. Some would smash thier machine others from the area trained with others entirely and almost all snashed at least one set of rotors. It was the wild west. Today the dual machines are around 300kg empty weight far too heavy so they need far too much engine too tall a mast too expensive. Etc. As a result some modern gyros do fly well but only because they have a 914 or 915. And none of them fly like our old rotax 503 powered 115kg empty weight machines in terms of take off distance (without massive head wind). So now the difference between dual ans solo is really in our terms of getting out of a machine with 3 passangers into a machine with 2. Most modern gyros have massive heavy rotors still littlr movement required but heavy on the stick compared to a light sngle seater. Most use prerotation which combined with longer rotors actually increases take off distance theyll tell you they shortenen it but they dont. They overspeed rotors now then try to catch them before they spin down and hinge/flap. Anyway the post is too long already. Have a fly with your mate. The UK scene is better than mist in terms of safety but compared to the old days the UK scene was better. If your realky interested look up some of the old timers like Shirely Jennings she wrote a book spinning in the wind which gives a real flavour of the old days.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 heres video from the old club i learned in the two seat aircommand is being instructed by Terry the guy i was describing and he is also flying the gyroglider ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PzY43nJVhn0.htmlsi=KZXE8jsZCjQy9rCS

@@GolfFoxtrot22 and here is a light gyro closer to your sub 70 weight or as close as possible this machine probably about 115kg empty 503 rotax. Turn off the music. This is ine of Terrys students steve a mate who saddly died a few years after this drom lung issues. This shows beatifully that even hand winding if taken gradually that is correctly will get you off the ground in short distance. No 28ft rotored machine can get off in this distsnce without a 20mph headwind. Modern machine are too heavy. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-36ogAzGGyG4.htmlsi=ngIicNdSn1ar3B0X

@@GolfFoxtrot22 heres a musteeing pilot showing what is great about gyros ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UchU_mvRENU.htmlsi=mJm0gwpMpOiqdTo0

Hi David, I'm guessing you are back in the UK then. Enjoy the catch up.

Hi Mark, the spinner is custom made. I have a second one that I was going to sell but I wasn't sure if I was going to get it painted. Do you like it?

@@GolfFoxtrot22 I think it looks great Giles.. I imagine it’s mainly aesthetic being sat there behind you, but who cares.. Would look good on my Factory R / Maverick 😂

Hi Mark, a lot of the GT flexwings have a spinner but they do look good. Drop my a DM on instagram Flexwing_flier22 if you are interested in my spare. They are not cheap to make unfortunately.

To get a flexwing to VNE you really have to be putting the aircraft is a deliberate unusual attitude, primarily stalling it nose high and then in the recovery fully bar back and apply full power. Every sense you have will be screaming to you this is wrong to hold and sustain it to VNE. You can't get a flexwing to VNE in straight and level flights it just climbs. Stalling is the same, you have to have the bar full on the front strut, with no clue or sense that the bar pressure is high, lack of roll control etc, everything is telling you, you are now nearing the critical angle of attack. In a flexwing the whole aircraft just tells you what is going on. Hands off trim is so obvious, you really don't need an ASI. I hope that helps.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 - It does. Thank you for the detailed answer. I figured it might be something like that. I'll get up in a flex-wing, one day, but I don't anticipate that the experience will prompt any thoughts of selling my gyrocopter even though they do look like good raw flying fun ;) .

@@halfrhovsquared the joy of aviation is we take from it what we want. I have a friend that sold his flex and bought an autogyro so I'm looking forward to having a flight in one. Thanks for your comment. It's always good to see other perspectives.

@@GolfFoxtrot22 - They are surprisingly capable and resilient to winds and turbulence, especially for such a tiny little insect. I have gone flying when the winds have grounded pretty much everything else at our airport. We can get into or out of any field that you guys can utilise and our cruising speed is fairly on-par (if maybe a little slower because our rotors create a heck of a lot of drag). Performance-wise, we are very close cousins and I would argue that nothing beats the open-cockpit experience in terms of the feeling of flying and the fantastic visibility it affords. I hope that you go up in a gyro and make a video of the experience.

@halfrhovsquared it's definitely one I want to vlog.😁

Hi Laurie and welcome to the channel. You do raise some interesting points and areas for discussion. I hope you enjoy the content.

You old hang glider pilot you...:) Your comment did make me smile.